View Full Version : Diesel-Liquid cooled--Efi?
07-05-2006, 08:14 PM
I am looking for the perfect machine would you go with a diesel or a liquid cooled or a Efi machine ---?
07-05-2006, 08:16 PM
Depends what it will be used for. EFI is what I would get for my next mower but I am not sure what you mean by perfect machine...
07-05-2006, 08:24 PM
Dang it hit post to fast---
We have a number of large properties now 5 + acres I am trying to decide if Diesel is worth the extra cash--or one of the other options RIght now we are using Super Z's with 24 hp Honda's and am trying to get opinions on new equipment..
07-05-2006, 08:29 PM
diesel...I'd have a diesel WB if they made one.
From the choices you're picking from it looks like you're shopping ZTR's.
My #1 choice of ZTR's would be Toro's Z Master 593-D with the Kubota diesel.
07-05-2006, 08:33 PM
I probably should have composed my question better--Looking a Ztr's
and looking for any other suggestions
07-05-2006, 08:35 PM
The main problem with the large frame diesel mowers is weight. These things weight close to 2000lbs when loaded with fuel, operator, etc. All of that weight is bound to rutt out properties like no other unless it is all wide area mowing where you can cut a different direction EVERY time for like 8 cuts. Weight plus the fact that diesel is overkill unless all the properties you mow are constantly overgrown, etc.
EFI is the best choice IMO. They are good on gas, require no choking on cold start and have a great response to loads. Never have to hear the engine straining and chugging through dense growth.
Liquid cooled is overrated to me anyway. With a liquid cooled mower you now have a radiator blocking what could have been easy access to the engine for servicing and maintenance. The engines run alittle cooler but you have to constantly check coolant levels and clean off the radiator screens.
An air cooled EFI engine will last just as long as its liquid cooled counterpart. Of course a diesel will outlast them all but you will be replacing virtually everthing else on the mower by the time the engine gives out.
5 acres for some 24hp super Z's huh? What size are the decks, 52? Definately look into a 60'' deck for large properties like that, even a 72'' deck if they are wide open with level terrain (no bumps).
Any engine other than a 24 Honda will blow you away!
They are a DOG!
07-05-2006, 08:45 PM
We do run 60 in deck's I hadn't considered the total weight/rutting issue----(hence the reason for the post) the 24's are not the master of all they survey but they have been great so far ---we don't deal with over grown issues cept the first cut of the year and that is usually our fault for waiting to long....
07-05-2006, 09:08 PM
i would go EFI, most diesels on the mowers nowadays are very good engines (exmark kubota) ferris(caterpillar) etc. they will last longer than the useable life of the mower, I heard the kubota on the exmark is rated for 4500 hours for a major service, how many mowers do you see with that many hours?
for the extra 2000 for a diesel iwould rather go efi and mower last 3000 hours and get rid of it and buy a new one instead of puttinf 500 amonth in repairs of a 4000 hour old mower, just my opinion
07-05-2006, 09:15 PM
The main problem with the large frame diesel mowers is weight. These things weight close to 2000lbs when loaded with fuel, operator, etc. All of that weight is bound to rutt out properties like no other unless it is all wide area mowing where you can cut a different direction EVERY time for like 8 cuts.
That only has any truth on sand. I'm a winter time Florida resident so I have some idea of what you're dealing with. On real soil it's not a problem.
After all ALL of the equipment I have was designed for and operated on golf courses. Don't you think they'd be sensitive to rutting? My 16' 580-D weighs 6,600# and it don't rut the lawns. It has bigger tires. It'll mow over ground too soft to walk across.
It sounds to me like Daniels has outgrown the ZTR market anyway. With "several" 5 acre + lawns it sounds like you'll need a larger mower than even a 72." In any case definitely diesel. With diesel you get 2 out of three advantages. Diesel power and liquid cooled. Now if you were to get one of the new electronically controlled diesels it would be a clean sweep.
Diesel/LC/EFI all in one.
07-05-2006, 10:07 PM
I've run and or demoed a fair ammount of mowers. I have run the numbers with a diesel and just can't seem to make it worth it. Hence, the current units I have are a 26hp efi and two 28 efi's, also had one before these and a total of eight units. I've been absolutly pleased with my descision to run efi's and love the way they run. Everybody has a different opinion but these have worked great for me.
07-06-2006, 07:21 AM
If you run WAM's a diesel is the only choice. My choice in a Z is the EFI. I own 2 26 EFI's and they are excellent on fuel and have power. I do about 5 acres a week overall right mow and have had no problems.
Diesel is an excellent choice for mowing 8 hrs a day for 4 or 5 days a week and certainly in tough conditions.
The Honda that you currently have is sort of considered a mutt for that mower, it does the job but you will be spoiled if you run a 28EFI. Good Luck, oh BTW demo, demo, demo.
07-06-2006, 10:22 AM
What David Haggerty says about weight is correct. The pressure exerted on the ground is roughly equivalent to the air pressure in your tires. A heavier machine should not cause rutting if the air pressure is the same as a lighter machine. If you run 15 psi in your tires on a machine that weighs 2000 pounds and 15 psi in tires on a machine that weighs 1200 pounds, the pressure exerted on the ground is the same--15 psi. The difference is that the tires on the heavier machine will have a bigger footprint. That is, the weight will be carried over a larger area. There are two slight negatives to this, however. First the larger footprint may make the machine scuff easier when turning and secondly more of the ground will see the load so over time you will compact more of the soil. From a fuel economy standpoint both diesel and EFI would be great choices. Note that the Toro 593 weighs roughly 200 pounds more than their EFI which is quite a bit under 2000 pounds so check the weight of any unit you are considering before you rule it out solely on weight.
07-06-2006, 10:33 AM
Dang it hit post to fast---
We have a number of large properties now 5 + acres I am trying to decide if Diesel is worth the extra cash--or one of the other options RIght now we are using Super Z's with 24 hp Honda's and am trying to get opinions on new equipment..If you run the 28 efi you will think you had been pulling a 500 lb weight behind the Honda's, there is absolutely no comparison.
The Honda has like 37lb/ft of torque and the 28EFI has like 45.
670cc vs 725cc as well.
Not that it's a "bad" engine. There is nothing wrong with it, but manufacturers shouldn't be mating it to 60" ZTR's thats all.
07-06-2006, 09:45 PM
This is why I came here varied opinions from all around its like have 100 extra people demoing for you---We are starting to narrow things down---
Scags Sabre Tooth Tiger Diesel liquid cooled turbo diesel 31 hp---14500
Tiger with Kaw 29hp Liquid cooled Efi--10500 -(maybe better)
Toro z597 27 hp diesel-----13500
HUstler super z 28 efi xr7 ---8800
super z 34 hp diesel 13500
Kubotas --going to see tomorrow
Each appears to have benefits/drawbacks---each dealer is very good having products from each already -Though the Super Z efi cost is starting to look like a leader
The 24 hp Z's are a vast upgrade from the 19hp 52 toros we were running---though they were like 5k at the time-----Each upgrade is a big jump and the cost calc is harder to justify each time some info from those using the helps solidify thoughts wether beneficial or negative
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