Pulled over by MCE, they don't mess around

[bigjeeping]

Motor Carrier Enforcement got me today... He never did say EXACTLY what made him pull me over. But once he had a look at my truck/trailer he found half a dozen things to ticket me for.

Not having a bolt through the trailer's ball latch (securing it from popping open)
Not having my mower's strapped in (I know I know, I was driving like 1000 ft)
Not having commercial plates, therefore an Illegal plate.
Not having a Cheuffer's License.
One of my trailer lights was broken.

These are misdeamenor charges which go on your driving record (points against you) and your criminal record.

THANKFULLY he wrote the ticket to my business (no points, no criminal) and only ticketed me for 2 things.

Then he impounded my truck (illegal plates) AND trailer (tail light out). I had to unload all of my equipment and wait for my other truck to come get us.
So before I can get my truck/trailer back I have to get the commercial plate, cheuffer's license and fix the trailer light. PFfffffffffffffffffffffffffff :cry:

ANYWAY. what really pissed me off was I was driving my F-250 and pulling a 12' single axle 3500# trailer.

He says that to drive this truck/trailer combo I need commercial plates and a cheuffer's license because the total weight is above 10,000 something pounds. I told him I didn't believe that and he pulled out a book and showed me.

How can this be????? In michigan you need commericial plates and a cheuffer's license to pull a trailer with your F-250 for business????????

I still don't believe it, anyone got anything that says otherwise?

[stuffdeer]

Thanks for letting me know, I now will not get an F-250 and stay with 150

[bigjeeping]

ok, well I found out that YES you do need a chuaffer's endorsement in this case:

With a gross vehicle weight (GVW), gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), gross combination weight (GCW), or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 10,001 pounds or more.

but im still looking into if I need commercial plates or not, if anyone finds anything let me know

[Eclipse]

How can this be????? In michigan you need commericial plates and a cheuffer's license to pull a trailer with your F-250 for business????????

I still don't believe it, anyone got anything that says otherwise?

Wow. I guess we all know now how important commercial plates are (at least in MI), although I bet 90% of LCO's do not have commercial plates on their pickups.

It has been talked about before here and I have inquired about it at the sec of state (I'll see if I can find a link) and yes, if your GVWR is over 10,000 (your F250 is what 8,800? and 3,500 for the trailer) and it is for commercial use then your need commercial plates to the tune about around $500 per year.

Add that expense to the growing overhead in this industry.

[bigjeeping]

Wow. I guess we all know now how important commercial plates are (at least in MI), although I bet 90% of LCO's do not have commercial plates on their pickups.

It has been talked about before here and yes, if your GVWR is over 10,000 (your F250 is what 8,800? and 3,500 for the trailer) and it is for commercial use then your need commercial plates to the tune about around $500 per year.

Add that expense to the growing overhead in this industry.


Yes the F-250 is 8800.. so that plus 3500 for the trailer means im out of luck.
I do have commercial plates on my f450, man they are expensive

[Eclipse]

Thanks for letting me know, I now will not get an F-250 and stay with 150

What the GVWR of a 150. It is at least 6500 lbs isn't it? Then you will still technically need a commercial plate with a single 3500lbs axle trailer.

[Eclipse]

I do have commercial plates on my f450, man they are expensive

Sucks doesn't it. I think the cheapest commercial plate was just shy of $500. I don't remember exactly what it was but $49x comes to mind.

[DBL]

yeah the DOT around here will do the same thing they check you over for anything and they need NO REASON at all to stop you. its saftey checks just like big rigs have to go through weigh stations they didnt do anything wrong but they just check you. also in pa we dont have anything called a chauffers license and commercial tags arent required becuase we dont have them and DOT has gotten us before but they do check for everything around here

[Mike's Lawn & Snow]

yea i got pulled over by the st. clair shores police last year they gave me a warning told me that i needed commercial plates which i had no idea i needed them 490 bucks and there are so many jackass's out there that dont have them. If you have a truck that pulls a trailer and is used for commercial use no matter what business you are in you have to have a "weighted plate" **** i bet alot of lowballers would be goin out of business if they had to pop another 500

[HOOLIE]

Down here you almost never see them stop anything but a dump truck or tractor trailer...that said I did get stopped years ago while working for another LCO...yeah not fun, 45 minutes sitting in the 95 degree heat while they wrote up the numerous violations. In the end they still let me drive off at least...that would stink to get everything impounded...

[cantoo]

We have commercial plates on our cube van but not on our 1 ton Chev truck. We don't have commercial plates on any of our trailers (18) From the way I understand it here if you are towing with a commercial plate then the trailer has to have commercial plates too. I guess I need to look into the law to see what we need to do. MTO is usually just concerned with big trucks here too but what happens if you get into an accident. Today I was pulling a single axle 12' with my Bobcat ZTR on it and a lady decided to pull out of a driveway without looking or stopping. I got stopped in time but everything on my seat was laying on the floor and verything in the back of the truck (topper) was at the front. She just smiled and pulled out in front of me anyway. I just smiled back, darn hot women.

[twj721]

Glad that I do not live in Mich sounds like a bunch of bull just a way to get more money out of you

[RedWingsDet]

Sucks doesn't it. I think the cheapest commercial plate was just shy of $500. I don't remember exactly what it was but $49x comes to mind.

I just get it for half the year, I want to say it was around $280 or so.

[RedWingsDet]

Thanks for letting me know, I now will not get an F-250 and stay with 150

You could need one for a 150. I know someone with a Ram 1500 2WD truck and open trailer and they made him get the weighted plate.

[robbo521]

that stinks!glad its not like that in Alabama

[Howie's Lawn Care]

yea i got pulled over by the st. clair shores police last year they gave me a warning told me that i needed commercial plates which i had no idea i needed them 490 bucks and there are so many jackass's out there that dont have them. If you have a truck that pulls a trailer and is used for commercial use no matter what business you are in you have to have a "weighted plate" **** i bet alot of lowballers would be goin out of business if they had to pop another 500
That's not correct about the plates. My insurance agent told me if I was not advertising on my truck, I only needed business class coverage. I had four months and 12 days left on my six month policy when I added the trailer and business class. It only cost me an additional $65.00. Thats just how it was for me with my insurance agent.

-Nick Howard

[befnme]

That's not correct about the plates. My insurance agent told me if I was not advertising on my truck, I only needed business class coverage. I had four months and 12 days left on my six month policy when I added the trailer and business class. It only cost me an additional $65.00. Thats just how it was for me with my insurance agent.

-Nick Howard

its up to you but i would call the ins. co. itself and explain what you do and see if business class will cover you . here in nc we need commercial auto . business class is only for like couriers and the such . hauling equipment of any shape and size is a whole other ball game . n

now for the tag subject , i had to get a weighted tag and nothing else .i am good up to 15,000 lbs.

[Eclipse]

That's not correct about the plates. My insurance agent told me if I was not advertising on my truck, I only needed business class coverage. I had four months and 12 days left on my six month policy when I added the trailer and business class. It only cost me an additional $65.00. Thats just how it was for me with my insurance agent.


Whether or not you advertise on your truck is irrevelant when determining if you need a business plate or not. Matters regarding insurance may be different.

[Eclipse]

bigjeep,
Did they give you a hard time about not having a DOT number? I'm assuming you did not have one.

[topsites]

dang that's bs, never had this problem here, hope it stays clear of va.

[SpikeGT]

Commercial plates for my trucks were only like $120 or something for a year. $500 is way too much. That sucks.

[befnme]

Commercial plates for my trucks were only like $120 or something for a year. $500 is way too much. That sucks.
yeh mine ran around $180 or so.

[ProStreetCamaro]

dang that's bs, never had this problem here, hope it stays clear of va.


Yeah you arent kidding. That sucks big time. Here in MD you you dont need a business license, no commercial tags or anything other than insurance.

[stuffdeer]

Ok....Jeep Wrangler..... :)

[topsites]

Yeah you arent kidding. That sucks big time. Here in MD you you dont need a business license, no commercial tags or anything other than insurance.

I checked with the VA DMV online, it says (whew):

What is a Commercial Motor Vehicle?

* A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001+ pounds
* A combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001+ pounds if the vehicle(s) being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
* Vehicles that carry 16 or more passengers, including the driver
* Any size vehicle that transports hazardous materials and that requires federal placarding

So ok, maybe not in all states, but I was right about the single axle trailer, at least here in va.
Come to think of it, a dual axle shouldn't be a problem but ...

[LawnTamer]

Man that sucks, as if you don't already have enough hoops to jump through. I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for anything like that out West, maybe in Ca.

[bigjeeping]

bigjeep,
Did they give you a hard time about not having a DOT number? I'm assuming you did not have one.


No he didn't say anything about that. He did say it was good I had lettering on my truck?

[dwlah]

that stinks!glad its not like that in Alabama

Dont be so sure
I was talking to my neighbor he was telling me the DOT is going to start enforcing those DOT stickers on the 1 tons.
(Thats just what he told me outside of his report I havent heard anything about it)TIFWIW

[Mdirrigation]

[QUOTE=ProStreetCamaro]Yeah you arent kidding. That sucks big time. Here in MD you you dont need a business license, no commercial tags or anything other than insurance.[


I hope you dont believe that . The DOT is cracking down in Maryland . You need a business license .

[TNT Lawncare]

Here in Indiana, less than 10,000lbs you need nothing other than your stuff strapped or whatever. More than that, you need DOT numbers on your vehicle. Above 17,000lbs I believe you need CDL license.

[amw]

ANY truck & trailer together over 10,000lbs. and doing any biz. with or without signs on the truck or trailer needs a com. plate.
We used 1500's for a while years ago..still needed the commercial plate..because the trailer is 7k lbs..and every full size truck is over 3k lbs..
so remmber is not what you ARE carrying (one 1,000 lb mower) its what you COULD carry..if your axles are 3500lbs (and you have 2) then your trailer is 7000 lbs...if your driving an f250 then your over...to avoid the com. plate you would need a truck that is less then 3001 lbs..

Also you can buy this plate (in michigan) for 3 months 6 months or 12..
(the 24k plate is the "smallest" one you can get, if you total more then this you need a "larger sticker)
The plate is much ceaper then the hassel you go thru with a ticket &/or impound.

I fought one (well that i won anyway) and that was because i tryed to get the plate and sec. of state told me "you dont need it"...had them put it in writing and took it to the judge....he was so pissed that they wernt doing their job that he called and complained...i got the ticket waived..(but i have paid a few sence then).

I know a lot about this stuff if any one in mich needs info let me know.

we used to just get the 6 month plate to last thru spring/summer and by the fall they are not stopping people much so we would use a reg. plate fall and winter.

this is a good time to remind people....CHECK your battery on your trailer (if you have 2 or more axles) and insure that the brake-a-way system is working....this is a ticket too..(if its not working, which i BET at least 1/2 the trailers on the road are not working)..

Also guys with haulmark trailers, if they want to test your trailers brake-a-way system let them but know...haulmark states that they MAY fail this test even though there is nothing wrong with it...I have a nifty letter from them (haulmark corp.) telling that this is not the right way to test there set up...and that damage could be done if this test is preformed...

motor carrier div. officers can find a million things wrong with your truck or trailer...they can check (amongst other things):
Tire pressure & wear
All Lights (trailer & truck, even the high beam headlights when its 12 noon on a sunny day)
equipment straped down
play in stearing wheel
cracks or chips in the windsheild
proper weights (per axle)
and a ton of other things too.

Good luck everyone.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

How long did you drive around like this before you were stopped? Do you see a lot of other trucks/trailers driving around without commercial tags?

If there is one thing I can't stand, it's arbitrary enforcement of the laws. It sounds to me like this was arbitrary enforcement.

My opinion: If they've just recently decided to start enforcing a law that they've never enforced, they should warn people in the beginning.

Sounds like this may be a revenue issue for the local govy.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[Runner]

Tony is exactly right on this. There are a few other things that pertain that did not mention. Along with the brake a way system, BOTH axles must have brakes on them. Also, while a DOT number is not required for us in Mich. (for this class), lettering including location (city and state) IS required (letters atleast 4 inches tall) amd MUST be plaquarded on the DOORS of the truck if it is an open backed truck (pick-up, dump, etc.). Also, we are REQUIRED to have a valid medical physical card from a D.O.T. certified physician.

[amw]

Tony is exactly right on this. There are a few other things that pertain that did not mention. Along with the brake a way system, BOTH axles must have brakes on them. Also, while a DOT number is not required for us in Mich. (for this class), lettering including location (city and state) IS required (letters atleast 4 inches tall) amd MUST be plaquarded on the DOORS of the truck if it is an open backed truck (pick-up, dump, etc.). Also, we are REQUIRED to have a valid medical physical card from a D.O.T. certified physician.

Yes, your right about the lettering..but since we own a sign biz. i didnt want to make it sound like i am trying to profit from all you guys.

All "for hire" biz.'s need name, city/state...dosent have to be fancy...but need to be there.
and if your wondering "am i a for hire biz?"...if you cut lawns or do landscaping ect. then YES you are. (and YES you can get a ticket for this too).

DFW...its like any law...its YOUR job to know the law... I agree its not "fair" but not much in life is...
Michigan can be hard on this mainly becasue we have the largest weights alowed on the road...which is another reason we have so many pothole...
This info is easy to find if you look for it, and if you dont then its your own fault for the ticket.

I hated paying for the plate, but if it wasnt for this our roads would be even worse then they are. Plane and simple...if you are carrying more weight then your avrg. person (in a car or light truck) why shouldnt you pay more for the use of the road?...(thru paying more for the plate)

In MOST cases if your 95% ligit, they will turn there head on the other 5% as long as its not the "big things" like the right plate, weights, ect..

And for any guys that say "who cares about the brakes, my truck will slow it down" yes it will, until it comes off your hitch and flys into someone at 70 mph and you kill them beacuse you didnt think it was needed...
the point of the brake-a-way system is to stop the trailer quickly and as safe as possible in the event that your trialer becomes disconected. remmember that could be your family driving next to some one who didnt think they needed to check them..

something else that wasnt mentioned is that EVERY DAY you use your truck/trailer you are suposed to check:
ALL Lights
brakes (truck & trailer, inclueding brake-a-way)
and a few other things...but these are the main ones..

hope this stops at least 1 person from being ticketed..

[ProStreetCamaro]

EDIT: double post.

[ProStreetCamaro]

[QUOTE=ProStreetCamaro]Yeah you arent kidding. That sucks big time. Here in MD you you dont need a business license, no commercial tags or anything other than insurance.[


I hope you dont believe that . The DOT is cracking down in Maryland . You need a business license .


Not to cut you dont which is all we do. My mother is the civil supervisor at the district court of maryland where they give you the information on what you need or dont need. In other words she is in charge of that office so I think we would know.


http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=38328&highlight=MD+business+license

[ProStreetCamaro]

Tony is exactly right on this. There are a few other things that pertain that did not mention. Along with the brake a way system, BOTH axles must have brakes on them. Also, while a DOT number is not required for us in Mich. (for this class), lettering including location (city and state) IS required (letters atleast 4 inches tall) amd MUST be plaquarded on the DOORS of the truck if it is an open backed truck (pick-up, dump, etc.). Also, we are REQUIRED to have a valid medical physical card from a D.O.T. certified physician.


I would NEVER live in MI even if they paid me to. They can shove all their BS laws right up their @$$ and I feel sorry for anybody that does live in MI that has to put up with that BS!

[amw]

I would NEVER live in MI even if they paid me to. They can shove all their BS laws right up their @$$ and I feel sorry for anybody that does live in MI that has to put up with that BS!

How is that BS?
it makes for safe roads..
So you dont think people driving 10,000 lb trucks should have drug testing?
You dont think that people should have to be checked to see if they are well, so they dont pass out or have a heartatch at the wheel?
I supose you dont think there trucks should have to be checked to make sure they are safe to drive on the road too?

I think you will find a lot of states have laws that are not that much dif. then ours. Your state is MUCH smaller, and a whole lot less roads...what works in your state wouldnt work here...here is a few facts for you..
Maryland pop. 5,600,388 (2005 census)
" " area 9,774 Sq. Miles
Michigan pop. 10,120,860
" " area 56,804 Sq. Miles
...so the point here is this:
Maryland is 5.8 times SMALLER then Michigan...yet only has aprox. 1/2 the population...so how do you expect to maintain all the roads in the state (which a ton of cars/trucks/semis/rv's drive on from OUT of MI) without charging the people who are doing the most damage/wear and tear on the roads??
Not to mention all the other stuff like...Michigans water area in the great lakes is bigger then your state!...38575 Sq. miles...
Here is a link to some facts about the state..
http://www.50states.com/facts/michigan.htm

and just to be a smart a**, this is dumb..
Maryland Safety Inspection Certificate – This Maryland State Police form certifies that your vehicle meets Maryland safety standards. It is valid for up to 90 days from the date issued...
thats BS,,,..i would NEVER live there...

We dont do this.
and you guys have some of these laws too...here is one right from YOUR states DMV.
A valid U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) physical card or Federal/MVA waiver (if applying for a commercial driver's license).
its the same as here...

Ok, I am done now.

[ProStreetCamaro]

Maryland Safety Inspection Certificate – This Maryland State Police form certifies that your vehicle meets Maryland safety standards. It is valid for up to 90 days from the date issued...
thats BS,,,..i would NEVER live there...

We dont do this.
and you guys have some of these laws too...here is one right from YOUR states DMV.
A valid U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) physical card or Federal/MVA waiver (if applying for a commercial driver's license).
its the same as here...


You have no clue what the maryland safety inspection certificate is do you? When you buy a used vehical you have to get it inspected. When you do they give you a certificate thats good for 90 days so it gives you time to go to your local DMV and get your tags. After you have your tags you NEVER have to get your vehical inspected again. Some people also get a used vehical inspected if they are selling it. They use it as a sales pitch that it is already inspected.


And about the DOT thing you dont need to be DOT approved till you reach a GVWR of 26,001 pounds are greater in MD. That 10,001 pound or greater is BS IMO. A half blind, crippled midget can drive a normal truck and single axle trailor.

[befnme]

[QUOTE=amw]How is that BS?
it makes for safe roads..
So you dont think people driving 10,000 lb trucks should have drug testing?
You dont think that people should have to be checked to see if they are well, so they dont pass out or have a heartatch at the wheel?
I supose you dont think there trucks should have to be checked to make sure they are safe to drive on the road too?
QUOTE]

amw , in all fairness 1. do you think that people that drive 9,999 lb trucks and under are all drug free ? 2. granny in the 88 oldsmobile or a 16 year old in dads truck could have a heart attack at the wheel . 3. because larger vehicles are more prone to be stopped that gives the owner more incentive to keep a road-worthy vehicle , while everyone else can drive cars around with cracked windsheilds , half bald tires , and barely legal break pads . is that safe for us ? i guess what i mean is that if it applies to us and big rigs then it should apply to the average joe . how many white haired people do you see driving every day ? do you think they could pass the same physical the we take to posses a cdl ? i think not .

[amw]

[QUOTE=amw]How is that BS?
it makes for safe roads..
So you dont think people driving 10,000 lb trucks should have drug testing?
You dont think that people should have to be checked to see if they are well, so they dont pass out or have a heartatch at the wheel?
I supose you dont think there trucks should have to be checked to make sure they are safe to drive on the road too?
QUOTE]

amw , in all fairness 1. do you think that people that drive 9,999 lb trucks and under are all drug free ? 2. granny in the 88 oldsmobile or a 16 year old in dads truck could have a heart attack at the wheel . 3. because larger vehicles are more prone to be stopped that gives the owner more incentive to keep a road-worthy vehicle , while everyone else can drive cars around with cracked windsheilds , half bald tires , and barely legal break pads . is that safe for us ? i guess what i mean is that if it applies to us and big rigs then it should apply to the average joe . how many white haired people do you see driving every day ? do you think they could pass the same physical the we take to posses a cdl ? i think not .

#1...No i dont think they are but someone on drugs or alc. have a much higher chance to cause an accident....and i would much rather get hit by a 3-4k lb car or truck then a 10,000 truck pulling a 7k trailer....also the other thing is your avrg. person isnt driving all over the place...they go to the bank, store, work, a friends, ect...a lawn co. is going from house to house to house or biz. all day so they spend more time on the roads.

#2 yes they can, but they again are not driving a small dump truck with 5k lbs. of dirt in then back & a 5k of trailer/equipment. A good example is my father, he for a few year couldnt bend his leg enough to safely drive a stick...so he wouldnt pass...now that he has had sugery and had his knee replaced he can bend it and passes the physical...and now he can drive anything commmercial.

#3 I agree with you for the most part, except..the incentive is not always enough. and if its not law it makes it an option. the avrg. person is driving a car, light truck, or suv...non of which weighs 10,000 lbs or more (maybe hummers..dont know how much they weigh), and they are not pulling trailers all day everyday.

as for it applying to everyone..
a semi is hauling up to 80 tons in our state um, i think they laws should be dif. for them..and yes they should pay more to plate there trucks. This is what causes potholes (and the freeze & thaw cycle). and they can kill a lot more people in that then a guy in a car.

as for this..
"how many white haired people do you see driving every day ? do you think they could pass the same physical the we take to posses a cdl ? i think not"
no, which is why we have the test in the 1st place. so i guess we agree on that. thats why they are not driving the dumptrucks ect..

the long & short of it is the biz. trucks on the road spend much more time driving..using the roads..so they charge more for them.

Its just like the lawn that takes 5 mins. and pays $25 compared to the 5 acres that take 1 hour and pays $250
why are they paying $250? because it takes more time and wear and tear.

[amw]

they have changed the laws a little ..now its 8000lbs or more.
here is the info..
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf

[Eclipse]

Also, while a DOT number is not required for us in Mich. (for this class), lettering including location (city and state) IS required (letters atleast 4 inches tall)

When I spoke with someone at the state at one time I was told that we were supposed to have a DOT number. I will see if I can dig up the manual they sent me and verify this info.

[Flex-Deck]

In Iowa, you just need to pay for the tonnage of your total weight. In my case, the Truck and Trailer loaded is 17,899 lbs, so I have a 9 ton license. The tonnage is only on the registration - the license plate itself is the same. Just costs more. A normal pickup in Iowa is a standard $65. A 9 ton license is $200. That is all we need to do.

[crash935]

I was told that we were supposed to have a DOT number.

You do not need a DOT # if you stay within the state (you may file for a state # if you would like though). If you leave the state as a "for hire" you need either a federal DOT # or #'s for the states you will be working in.

[bigjeeping]

What I did today:

Well I picked up my truck from impound: -$265
Got commercial plates and chauffer's license: -$660 something
New lights for trailer: -$20
Still have to pay the tickets which are probably: -$300
Signed on a 50yrd mulch job for this weekend: +$2500

The lord works in mysterious ways. :cool2:

[d&rlawncare]

I worked 5+ years for the MI state police and am currently a county weighmaster. I specialize in Commercial vehicle enforcement. If anyone has any questions about MI laws and what applies and does not apply to you and your business let me know. I am new to this forum and am looking into starting a business next year.

[huh]

Glad that I do not live in Mich sounds like a bunch of bull just a way to get more money out of you

amen brother!! :usflag:

now if we could just send a few people from up there back :walking: :laugh:

[LwnmwrMan22]

I've approached Sean about this before.... someone needs to get ahold of each state's Department of Commercial Vehicles and post what needs to be done. Then make it a freakin sticky on the top of the page.

It's all nice and dandy that we have a forum that we can all talk about what should / shouldn't be done, but come on, this has been debated so many times before, mostly with hearsay (I heard from my neighbor, the guy down the street said....).

With that said....

I'd bet that with most states, the minimum is that you're going to need commercial plates, or a commercial inspection sticker, SOMETHING that says commercial.

ProStreetCamaro - I'm glad that your mom works at a courthouse, but she is NOT in the Department of Commercial Vehicles.

I've been pulled over 6 times in the last 3 years in MN. There's been 3 times where I was told 3 different things by 2 different inspectors.

Now I carry a print off of the MN Department of Motor Vehicles' Commercial enforcement website with me, so I can show the inspectors what it says on their own website.

Again, for those of you that don't think that you need any type of anything, I'll say you just haven't gotten to the right department yet.

After 9-11, EVERYTHING gets regulated now. We're all transporting something, and the feds just want more paperwork for everyone.

[LwnmwrMan22]

When I spoke with someone at the state at one time I was told that we were supposed to have a DOT number. I will see if I can dig up the manual they sent me and verify this info.

This is what I was told differently 3 times by 2 different inspection officers here in MN.

First I was told that I needed one.

About 3 weeks later, I was stopped and inspected, and was told that I didn't need one.

Last year, I was stopped, and told that I needed a USDOT#.

So, now I get on the computer and look up USDOT#, and I DON'T need one, because I don't travel outside of my own state.

If I DID travel outside of my own state, then I would, but I'm just inTRAstate, not inTERstate.

[jazak]

What the GVWR of a 150. It is at least 6500 lbs isn't it? Then you will still technically need a commercial plate with a single 3500lbs axle trailer.

No you won't; It has to be OVER 10,00LB.S:laugh:

[Eclipse]

No you won't; It has to be OVER 10,00LB.S:laugh:

I don't understand what you are getting at?

If your GCWR is over 10,000 lbs you need commercial plate. As I said I was guessing the GVWR of the 150 to be at least 6500 lbs then with a single 3500lb axle trailer you will be over 10,000.

Did I miss something?

[Eclipse]

So, now I get on the computer and look up USDOT#, and I DON'T need one, because I don't travel outside of my own state.

If I DID travel outside of my own state, then I would, but I'm just inTRAstate, not inTERstate.

I think Michigan law is different. I have the paperwork in the office here an I will dig it up later tonight.

I am pretty sure in MI we are supposed to have a USDOT # even for intra-state driving.

I will look though the paperwork for clarification.

d&rlawncare, what are your thoughts on this for MI?

[sheshovel]

:cool2: I just can't believe he impounded your vehicles. How ridiculous!

[ChadsLawn]

Man Im glad I dont live up there. It like anything goes down here.

[stumper1620]

In Michigan the chauffeurs license used to be what you needed for driving big trucks, when the CDL came around the state changed the chauffeurs to being required for anyone producing income with a vehicle, ( even the pizza delivery guy) so yes, anyone mowing for money needs the chauffeurs license.
The commercial plate was a great debate at the secretary of state when I was doing plates, they checked all the books and decided it was a requirement regardless of weight, if you have your name on the truck. It only cost me about 80 bucks more for commercial plates.
as far as DOT numbers, It don't cost nothing, just get it, that way you don't need to wonder and ask. took me less than an hour to find the info. print the forms fill them out and fax them in, about 5 days later the papers arrived in the mail.
also, the points about brake checking and hitches
First if you test your brake away brakes, be sure you unplug the trailer harness before you pull the switch plug. the back feed of the trailer battery will ruin your controller. then there is safety chains, cross them under the tongue that way if it should brake away the chains will keep the tongue from touching the pavement.
I use a padlock on my hitch, that way no one but me can release the latch, since I'm the only one with a key.

[jazak]

I don't understand what you are getting at?

If your GCWR is over 10,000 lbs you need commercial plate. As I said I was guessing the GVWR of the 150 to be at least 6500 lbs then with a single 3500lb axle trailer you will be over 10,000.

Did I miss something?

You're right my bad; wasn't thinking. It comes out to 10,000lbs + equipment in trailer.

[amw]

It only cost me about 80 bucks more for commercial plates.

What are you driving that has a reg. plate that costs over $400.00?
a 24,000 lb. commercial plate (which is the least weight) in michigan is $491 for 12 months, $245.50 for 6 months, or $122.75 for 3 months...
when myy diesel pickup truck has a reg. plate on it and its only about $140 per year..
so i cant figure out what your driving that would cost only $80 more per year to have a commercial plate on it.??

[d&rlawncare]

Pizza guys do NOT need a chauffeurs license. see below in red...The Chauffeurs part of the law states GVWR not GCWR. This means your power unit (Truck) has to be at 10000 or more. Check your vin tag on the inside of your door. As far as commercial plates go the law says a TRUCK pulling a trailer in commercial use needs a EGVW (commercial plate). An AG opinion and SOS policy have ruled (well before my time in law enforcement) that if you are using a pickup pulling a trailer the pickup must have an empty weight of 5001 AND be pulling a trailer. There are 2 ways this can be determined. When its regestered at SOS it will have the weight on the cert of reg or a fee/cat code. That fee or cat code places it in a weight catagory. I can get you guys that list if you would like. The motor carrier officer can also weigh your truck. If you do not have a pickup i.e. flatbed, box truck etc. and you are pulling a trailer then you are a truck and need the plates.
As far as DOT numbers go in MI. Before you did not need them. BUT the law has changed its just not being enforced yet. Get the DOT# free online and stick it on your truck. Its FREE!!!
If your trailer and truck have a gross combination weight rating of 10,001
or more then you also need a DOT medical card.
And for those of you who plow take your "wings" off your plows if you exceed 8'6". EASY $160 ticket in my county.

Is there a way to set up a thread just for us in MI to discuss the laws and ask questions. I have a work cell phone that I can give out. If I dont know the answer I have many contacts at MCD headquarters and I will find out.


MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949


257.6 “Chauffeur” defined.

Sec. 6.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), “chauffeur” means any of the following:

(a) A person who operates a motor vehicle as a motor common carrier of property or a motor contract carrier of property as defined in section 1(f) and (h) of the motor carrier act, 1933 PA 254, MCL 475.1, or a motor carrier of passengers as defined in section 3 of the motor bus transportation act, 1982 PA 432, MCL 474.103.

(b) A person who is employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or more.
(c) A person who operates a bus or school bus.

(d) A person who operates a taxi.

(e) A person who operates a limousine as defined by section 3 of the limousine transportation act, 1990 PA 271, MCL 257.1903.

(2) For purposes of subsection (1)(b), a person shall be considered to be employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle when the person's employment customarily involves the necessary use of a motor vehicle for hire or for transporting passengers for hire, or for transporting for gain or hire any merchandise for display, sale, or delivery.

(3) “Chauffeur” does not include any of the following:

(a) A farmer or an employee of a farmer operating a vehicle exclusively in connection with the farming operations of the farmer.

(b) A fire fighter or a member of a fire department operating an ambulance.

(c) Emergency medical services personnel operating an ambulance. As used in this subdivision, “emergency medical services personnel” means that term as defined in section 20904 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.20904.

(d) State transportation department employees whose work consists of operating vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more for the purpose of transporting highway and bridge maintenance materials and supplies for all aspects of state trunkline maintenance, including winter maintenance and facilities maintenance.

(e) County road commission employees and other employees of local units of government who do not drive their own vehicles and whose work consists of hauling road building materials and supplies for the road commission or for other municipal purposes.

(f) A person operating a motor vehicle for a volunteer program who only receives reimbursement for the costs of operating the motor vehicle.

(g) A person who operates a motor home for personal pleasure.

(h) A parent or parent's designee for the purpose of transporting pupils to or from school and school related events.


History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1980, Act 154, Imd. Eff. June 12, 1980 ;-- Am. 1990, Act 188, Eff. Aug. 15, 1990 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 134, Eff. Oct. 1, 1992 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 297, Imd. Eff. Dec. 18, 1992 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 534, Eff. Oct. 1, 2002


© 2006 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

[d&rlawncare]

No you won't; It has to be OVER 10,00LB.S:laugh:


Look at your vin tag on the inside drivers door. it has the GVWR and make sure you look at the LBS not Kg. if its a reg 150 then it wont be over 10000 and its just the power unit. You dont combine the weights.

[d&rlawncare]

I think Michigan law is different. I have the paperwork in the office here an I will dig it up later tonight.

I am pretty sure in MI we are supposed to have a USDOT # even for intra-state driving.

I will look though the paperwork for clarification.

d&rlawncare, what are your thoughts on this for MI?

The law has changed. Yes you need them its just not being enforced yet they are giving a grace period. Its best just to get them. They can still stop you for it and use that to dig for other stuff.

http://www.safersys.org/faq.aspx

You want to register as a MOTOR CARRIER/INTRASTATE/PRIVATE

[Runner]

D&RLawncare,
First of all, I would just like to say that not just for myself, who has been all through it with the inspections and meeting all the requirements, (1 ton pulling trailer), - but for the rest of us on here from this state, We would like to thank you for what you do -ALL that you do. Oh, - some may think that it's a bunch of bull, and whine about the laws and regulations, but many of us don't feel that way. I believe that everything that is done is done for a good purpose. People have to realize that you (and others) are put out there for our and everyone elses protection. All too often we are hearing of accidents and hazards from unsafe equipment. We've all seen it happen at some point in our lives. The trailer that came off and killed the family; The truck driver that fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone; And the list goes on and on.
Also,...while we're at it,....welcome to lawnsite.

[d&rlawncare]

Wow. I guess we all know now how important commercial plates are (at least in MI), although I bet 90% of LCO's do not have commercial plates on their pickups.

It has been talked about before here and I have inquired about it at the sec of state (I'll see if I can find a link) and yes, if your GVWR is over 10,000 (your F250 is what 8,800? and 3,500 for the trailer) and it is for commercial use then your need commercial plates to the tune about around $500 per year.

Add that expense to the growing overhead in this industry.


It has nothing to do with the GVWR. Its the weight of the power unit. The empty weight. See my other post from earlier.

[Eclipse]

Look at your vin tag on the inside drivers door. it has the GVWR and make sure you look at the LBS not Kg. if its a reg 150 then it wont be over 10000 and its just the power unit. You dont combine the weights.

Looking at this document, if the truck only has a GVWR over 8000lbs it need commercial plates.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf

[Eclipse]

It has nothing to do with the GVWR. Its the weight of the power unit. The empty weight. See my other post from earlier.

This document seems to take into account if the unit it used to pull a trailer or nor, but not necessarily the combined weight.

If the truck is under 8k and is use to tow a trailer it looks like it needs GVW plates.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf

As mentioned earlier the numbers appear to be 8k and not 10k.

[Eclipse]

You're right my bad; wasn't thinking. It comes out to 10,000lbs + equipment in trailer.

No worries. It looks like things have changed and I was not entirely accurate anyway.

[tacoma200]

Nothing against you Northern fellows but they need to chill out up there (pun intended). I'm sure there are real crimes going on somewhere up there. But they wouldn't be interested in that. More like Mayberry around here and I'm glad of it.

[Eclipse]

The Chauffeurs part of the law states GVWR not GCWR. This means your power unit (Truck) has to be at 10000 or more. MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)

Now I am getting confused reading though several documents.

Looking at this document it does mention gross combined weight ratings but it looks like the gross combined needs to be over 26k and the trailer/vehicle being towed needs to be over 10k. for for use to need a CDL?

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1627_8666_9060-21609--,00.html

This document looks to say much of the same.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/commercial_drivers_license_8574_7.pdf

It does not really separate out just a single truck/vehicle with a GVWR of 10k or more.

I need to get some sleep. Maybe this will make more sense in the morning?


Right now the only thing I am 100% sure of is that I need a US DOT# on the trucks.

[d&rlawncare]

Looking at this document, if the truck only has a GVWR over 8000lbs it need commercial plates.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf


Gross vehicle weight (GVW) is just that- the weight of the vehicle (empty) Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is seperate. That form from SOS refers to the empty weight. If the truck weighs (Actual empty weight) more than 8000 then it needs a plate. If it weighs more than 5001 and pulling a trailer then it needs one.

[d&rlawncare]

Now I am getting confused reading though several documents.

Looking at this document it does mention gross combined weight ratings but it looks like the gross combined needs to be over 26k and the trailer/vehicle being towed needs to be over 10k. for for use to need a CDL?

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1627_8666_9060-21609--,00.html

This document looks to say much of the same.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/commercial_drivers_license_8574_7.pdf

It does not really separate out just a single truck/vehicle with a GVWR of 10k or more.

I need to get some sleep. Maybe this will make more sense in the morning?


Right now the only thing I am 100% sure of is that I need a US DOT# on the trucks.

You have to keep things seperate. This refers to CDL requirements and that is seperate from plate requirements. For CDL the law states its the combination of vehicles combined. If your power unit is under 10,000 pounds you DO NOT need a chauffeurs license. It is confusing. Thats why most Troopers and deputies give out false info. They cant just man-up and say they dont know. They give out false info and tell people they need stuff when they dont. Oh...and if your power unit weighs more than 5001 pound you do need your company name, city state on both sides above the bottom edge of the door. You might as well put your phone number on there for the FREE advertising.

[amw]

Oh...and if your power unit weighs more than 5001 pound you do need your company name, city state on both sides above the bottom edge of the door. You might as well put your phone number on there for the FREE advertising.

Do you know what the req. size is for both this and dot #'s?
is 2 inches or 3?
thanks

[ALarsh]

I roll in at 9,700 lbs. :)

What about those Farm plates? I have seen some guys around town using Farm plates.

[Eclipse]

Gross vehicle weight (GVW) is just that- the weight of the vehicle (empty) Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is seperate. That form from SOS refers to the empty weight. If the truck weighs (Actual empty weight) more than 8000 then it needs a plate. If it weighs more than 5001 and pulling a trailer then it needs one.

I think it is odd that we are required to know the acutal weight of the truck to determine if we need commercial plates or not. How many guys know what their truck weighs?

On the other hand I'd guess most 4x4 full size trucks (including 1/2 tons) weigh over 5001 lbs and most of us pull a trailer so the majority of people on this site need commercial plates. The exception might be those using Dakota, Rangers, ect.... I have no idea what those wiegh?

[Eclipse]

You have to keep things seperate. This refers to CDL requirements and that is seperate from plate requirements.


Your right, I was reading so many things I was mixing the two up.


For CDL the law states its the combination of vehicles combined. If your power unit is under 10,000 pounds you DO NOT need a chauffeurs license.


The CDL requirements do refer of GVWR of the power unit and not the actual weight (as in the case of plates/registration) correct? At least that is the way it reads on those documents.

With this said, anybody driving a 1 ton dually truck or larger may need a CDL depending on their gross combined weight correct? So if your truck GVWR is over 10k and adding the trailer GVWR makes the combined GVWR over 26k, then a CDL is required?

[amw]

I think it is odd that we are required to know the acutal weight of the truck to determine if we need commercial plates or not. How many guys know what their truck weighs?

On the other hand I'd guess most 4x4 full size trucks (including 1/2 tons) weigh over 5001 lbs and most of us pull a trailer so the majority of people on this site need commercial plates. The exception might be those using Dakota, Rangers, ect.... I have no idea what those wiegh?
never had to go on a scale to buy bulk salt or slag or whatever?
thats one way...or go to a scale and pay about $5..

the "little" trucks should be under 5k lbs, and i would guess most 150's 1500's etc. should also be under..

[J&R Landscaping]

Ok....Jeep Wrangler..... :)

Get one of those and your just digging a hole for yourself. The towing and pulling capacity of one of those jeeps in next to nothing. I was looking into one but when I found out what they couldn't pull, that idea died real quick.

[d&rlawncare]

Do you know what the req. size is for both this and dot #'s?
is 2 inches or 3?
thanks

3" min and has to contrast with the truck color. No blue on blue type stuff.

[d&rlawncare]

I roll in at 9,700 lbs. :)

What about those Farm plates? I have seen some guys around town using Farm plates.

If a saw you doing commercial business on a farm plate I would take your plate, give you a citation and COULD impound your vehicle for improper use of a plate. I have taken at least 8 or 9 farm plates this year. None from LCO's.

[Runner]

I would also like to add, that according to what we've been told over several years, that ANY truck that is a stake truck, dump truck, van body (like a moving truck), or any othe type of truck that has a bed that comes out over the wheels, and pulls a trailer, is required to have a GVW registration, as well. Even if you took a pickup truck, and built a homemade flatbed out of
2x4's and plywood, and it covers that width, you now have a stake truck. You just upped your license plate fees to $500 a year.....gotta love that. I learned this the hard way...the first time I was stopped,...a week after I bought my truck (1 ton stake). The trooper took my plate - I had just bought it. I was HT, because I had on it what the SOS had told me I needed at the time...WRONG information!

[d&rlawncare]

Your right, I was reading so many things I was mixing the two up.



The CDL requirements do refer of GVWR of the power unit and not the actual weight (as in the case of plates/registration) correct? At least that is the way it reads on those documents.

With this said, anybody driving a 1 ton dually truck or larger may need a CDL depending on their gross combined weight correct? So if your truck GVWR is over 10k and adding the trailer GVWR makes the combined GVWR over 26k, then a CDL is required?

Look at the red words. for a class A CDL its a vehicle with a combo of 26001 or more that includes a trailer of 10,000 or more. so your truck could be 26,000 and trailer 9,999 and you would only need a chauffeurs license. The class B CDL says a vehicle and does not mention combo's. Those "cheat sheets" as we call them are very confusing unless you read the actual law.

(a) A person, before operating a combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more including a towed vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds, shall procure a group A vehicle designation on his or her operator's or chauffeur's license. Unless an indorsement or the removal of restrictions is required, a person licensed to operate a group A vehicle may operate a group B or C vehicle without taking another test.

(b) A person, before operating a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, shall procure a group B vehicle designation on his or her operator's or chauffeur's license. Unless an indorsement or the removal of restrictions is required, a person licensed to operate a group B vehicle may operate a group C vehicle without taking another test.

[d&rlawncare]

I would also like to add, that according to what we've been told over several years, that ANY truck that is a stake truck, dump truck, van body (like a moving truck), or any othe type of truck that has a bed that comes out over the wheels, and pulls a trailer, is required to have a GVW registration, as well.....

Correct! and SOS will tell you the wrong info everytime. They have even told me I was wrong over the phone until I walked in there with my MI vehicle code and showed them.

[stumper1620]

What are you driving that has a reg. plate that costs over $400.00?
a 24,000 lb. commercial plate (which is the least weight) in michigan is $491 for 12 months, $245.50 for 6 months, or $122.75 for 3 months...
when myy diesel pickup truck has a reg. plate on it and its only about $140 per year..
so i cant figure out what your driving that would cost only $80 more per year to have a commercial plate on it.??
well, I looked it up,
I have a 02 ford SD 250 4x4 I switched to commercial plates, they went all thru the books and the total cost of my plate was 140.00 I guess they screwed up, I really don't care if they did because it is a com plate and it is legal and paid for. whatever they did I dont expect that it will change unless I say something and they review it. oh that was for 10 months because of being switched in March.

[amw]

well, I looked it up,
I have a 02 ford SD 250 4x4 I switched to commercial plates, they went all thru the books and the total cost of my plate was 140.00 I guess they screwed up, I really don't care if they did because it is a com plate and it is legal and paid for. whatever they did I dont expect that it will change unless I say something and they review it. oh that was for 10 months because of being switched in March.
they may have used the "money" left over from your reg. plate and put it twords your new one...they did that to me once.
If your renewal comes for that price i would be happy if were you, but it will most likely be for the right amount like mine was.
I would expect to pay $491 feb. 28th just in case.
you got a good deal.

[stumper1620]

they may have used the "money" left over from your reg. plate and put it twords your new one...they did that to me once.
If your renewal comes for that price i would be happy if were you, but it will most likely be for the right amount like mine was.
I would expect to pay $491 feb. 28th just in case.
you got a good deal.
no prior applied, it was my birthday, plate expired the next day, that was mid march, so as far as I can see I am valid until feb. 1st. I know the branch manager and another girl were tearing up the books to find me the best way to be legal but, yet remain at a reasonable cost. I will say the local SOS office has really helpful and Knowledgable workers, I have sent in comment cards for them several times because of the time they are willing to spend to help out.

[d&rlawncare]

no prior applied, it was my birthday, plate expired the next day, that was mid march, so as far as I can see I am valid until feb. 1st. I know the branch manager and another girl were tearing up the books to find me the best way to be legal but, yet remain at a reasonable cost. I will say the local SOS office has really helpful and Knowledgable workers, I have sent in comment cards for them several times because of the time they are willing to spend to help out.

Your lucky to have good workers at your SOS. Do you have the 24 EGVW plate?

[Runner]

I was just going to say,...that would be about right. A commercial plate runs about $140. It is only if you require a GVW tag that it REALLY goes up.

[stumper1620]

I was just going to say,...that would be about right. A commercial plate runs about $140. It is only if you require a GVW tag that it REALLY goes up.
I honestly don't know what they set up, I would have to go look at the plate and see. your probably right, I bet its a straight plate.
at least I can't be accused of not trying to be legal, I got the plate ( may not be right, but I got it none the less) got my DOT # and all that goes with that. so I'm trying.

[stumper1620]

Heres a Question for you guys that deal with the scales, Do you (we) need to go thru them or the rest portables?

[Eclipse]

A commercial plate runs about $140. It is only if you require a GVW tag that it REALLY goes up.

That seems cheap for a plate. I think that is less than I paid for regular plates for the pickups in the past.

[stumper1620]

That seems cheap for a plate. I think that is less than I paid for regular plates for the pickups in the past.
thats only 10 months.

[furball64801]

Wow almost makes a guy not want to mow.

[d&rlawncare]

Heres a Question for you guys that deal with the scales, Do you (we) need to go thru them or the rest portables?

The way the law reads is that if your a commercial vehicle you have to go though the scales. Yes LCO's, tow trucks, cargo vans..etc...

I think your referring to the rest areas were they set up(?) If so then no NOBODY is required to. EVEN Semi's. Yellow signs in MI are advisory signs only. ALWAYS remember that. They will never be able to make Semis go through them . They would have to install permanent signs to allow you to get in the proper lane etc. Everybody thinks you have to and you don't. So if you ever get stopped and that was there reason then report them. SERIOUSLY. but 9 times out of ten they will have found 2-3 reasons by the time they have walked by your trailer/equipment and speak to you.

(5) A driver or owner of a commercial vehicle with other vehicles or trailers in combination, a truck or truck tractor, a truck or truck tractor with other vehicles in combination, or any special mobile equipment who fails to stop at or bypasses any scales or weighing station is guilty of a misdemeanor

[bigjeeping]

D&R thanks for tuning in. I've got a couple questions.

I have the 24 EGVW plates on both my trucks now. I know that if the Combined GVWR is 10,001+ the driver needs a chauffer's license and a medical card. Well, what about during snow plowing when the truck ISNT pulling a trailer, but still has the EGVW plate. Would the driver still need the chauf. license and medical card? I would think not.

Also.. is it a recent change in law that DOT numbers are required for LCO's? When I was pulled over the officer noted I had my biz name and city/state on both doors but didnt say anything about DOT numbers.

[d&rlawncare]

D&R thanks for tuning in. I've got a couple questions.

I have the 24 EGVW plates on both my trucks now. I know that if the Combined GVWR is 10,001+ the driver needs a chauffer's license and a medical card. Well, what about during snow plowing when the truck ISNT pulling a trailer, but still has the EGVW plate. Would the driver still need the chauf. license and medical card? I would think not.

Also.. is it a recent change in law that DOT numbers are required for LCO's? When I was pulled over the officer noted I had my biz name and city/state on both doors but didnt say anything about DOT numbers.

It is NOT the combined GVWR its the GVWR of your truck(s). Thats for the chauffeurs license. (b) A person who is employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or more. It says nothing about combined weights.

Medical Card falls under the federal regulations that MI adopted. That does include combined weights. So if your combined GVWR is 10000+ with a trailer then you need a med. But when you seperate them for plowing you dont need one. ( if the truck is under 10001) There good for 2 years so you might as well get one.

Yes DOT numbers are now required but there is a grace period. They have not even givin us the dates on this yet. I posted the web site to get it for free.

[stumper1620]

The way the law reads is that if your a commercial vehicle you have to go though the scales. Yes LCO's, tow trucks, cargo vans..etc...

I think your referring to the rest areas were they set up(?) If so then no NOBODY is required to. EVEN Semi's. Yellow signs in MI are advisory signs only. ALWAYS remember that. They will never be able to make Semis go through them . They would have to install permanent signs to allow you to get in the proper lane etc. Everybody thinks you have to and you don't. So if you ever get stopped and that was there reason then report them. SERIOUSLY. but 9 times out of ten they will have found 2-3 reasons by the time they have walked by your trailer/equipment and speak to you.

(5) A driver or owner of a commercial vehicle with other vehicles or trailers in combination, a truck or truck tractor, a truck or truck tractor with other vehicles in combination, or any special mobile equipment who fails to stop at or bypasses any scales or weighing station is guilty of a misdemeanor
REALLY???
They sure don't miss the chance to grab the guys in semis that miss them around here.
We have no scale houses on 131 so they set up portables in the rest areas on both sides around here all the time. I just make sure I'm not on the highway when they are. ( they give very little warning of it coming too!)

[d&rlawncare]

REALLY???
They sure don't miss the chance to grab the guys in semis that miss them around here.
We have no scale houses on 131 so they set up portables in the rest areas on both sides around here all the time. I just make sure I'm not on the highway when they are. ( they give very little warning of it coming too!)

Yeah they will come get you but if that is the only reason then it is an illegal stop. Until they change the way they are currently doing it with those yellow signs. If they ever do get you I would do what they say and then make a big deal of it later. There are to many violations in the MI vehicle code they can find on you. And they will say they stopped you for that and not missing there setup. Even if you have time to go though there little setup I never would.

[bigjeeping]

Just got my USDOT number online.. very easy process, and did I mention free?

[stumper1620]

Yeah they will come get you but if that is the only reason then it is an illegal stop. Until they change the way they are currently doing it with those yellow signs. If they ever do get you I would do what they say and then make a big deal of it later. There are to many violations in the MI vehicle code they can find on you. And they will say they stopped you for that and not missing there setup. Even if you have time to go though there little setup I never would.
well, I tell ya, Its not hard to miss one, they put 1 little sign on the shoulder near the entrance to the rest areas, if you happen to be passing ( even a small car) you wont see the sign, But I think the goal is to catch as many out of state trucks as possible. I mean they have at least 10 to 20 cars waiting. there is always one free to chase strays down, and they always do.

[Frontier-Lawn]

Just got my USDOT number online.. very easy process, and did I mention free?

whats the web page to get one?

[stumper1620]

whats the web page to get one?
here ya go
https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_REGISTRATION.prc_option

[d&rlawncare]

I just got the new laws via email from the state. They just changed the law in Oct that your pickup trucks have to be above 8000 lbs empty weight with or without a trailer (EGVW PLATE). NO MORE 5001 and above towing a trailer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If any of you just got your plate (EGVW) I would take it back to SOS and inform them of this change. But be prepared to jump through some loops. I cannot forward the original email but can print and fax you the part that applies so you can bring it to them. It might be worth it if you get a 200-300 back on your plate. I would say about 90% of the pickups now do not need them unless your a diesel dually pickup with a dump.

[amw]

I just got the new laws via email from the state. They just changed the law in Oct that your pickup trucks have to be above 8000 lbs empty weight with or without a trailer (EGVW PLATE). NO MORE 5001 and above towing a trailer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If any of you just got your plate (EGVW) I would take it back to SOS and inform them of this change. But be prepared to jump through some loops. I cannot forward the original email but can print and fax you the part that applies so you can bring it to them. It might be worth it if you get a 200-300 back on your plate. I would say about 90% of the pickups now do not need them unless your a diesel dually pickup with a dump.
my f250 diesel ext. cab short bed 4x4 is aprox. 8800lbs on the scale without me in it and nothing in the bed.
I guess all i am saying is that i think all the diesels will be over 8000lbs.
But that is cool that they changed it!
thanks for thie info!

[Eclipse]

I guess all i am saying is that i think all the diesels will be over 8000lbs.


FWIW
A regular cab Dodge Cummins 4x4 will come in around a little under 7,000 and an quad cab short bed 4x4 is 7600-7,800. I'm not sure about a quad cab long bed 4x4. Of course depending on how many extra accessories you have added to the truck the weights may vary.

I agree if you are driving an extended cab diesel you may be cutting it close with the weight

[Eclipse]

Thanks for the update d&rlawncare.

[amw]

FWIW
A regular cab Dodge Cummins 4x4 will come in around a little under 7,000 and an quad cab short bed 4x4 is 7600-7,800. I'm not sure about a quad cab long bed 4x4. Of course depending on how many extra accessories you have added to the truck the weights may vary.

I agree if you are driving an extended cab diesel you may be cutting it close with the weight
sorry i ment the ford diesels..
I didnt know the dodges where that light.

[Eclipse]

sorry i ment the ford diesels..
I didnt know the dodges where that light.

I was surprised to hear your truck is as heavy as it is?

I know the Chevy's are even lighter than the Dodges.

[amw]

I was surprised to hear your truck is as heavy as it is?

I know the Chevy's are even lighter than the Dodges.
well i would guess the backrack adds a little and the light bar adds too, heck its 65inches long...now that i think about it the tire are bigger too..which would add a little more ..now i wonder how much it weighs without all that.

ya i know the chevys are not very heavy.

[Briarpatch Joe]

Might want to check DOT in your state. Federal DOT says anything over 10,000lbs GCW (gross combination weight) need a DOT number on the side.
GCW is the weight of the truck and trailer as it is on the sticker--ie 9200lb truck and a 14,000lb trailer=GCR 23,200 lbs

[Prestige-Lawncare]

How can this be????? In michigan you need commericial plates and a cheuffer's license to pull a trailer with your F-250 for business????????

I still don't believe it, anyone got anything that says otherwise?

The key word was right at the end of your post! That's Michigan for you! I am sure there are a few other states like this ... thank heavens that there aren't many.

Not that way in Indiana.

[LwnmwrMan22]

Might want to check DOT in your state. Federal DOT says anything over 10,000lbs GCW (gross combination weight) need a DOT number on the side.GCW is the weight of the truck and trailer as it is on the sticker--ie 9200lb truck and a 14,000lb trailer=GCR 23,200 lbs

Not true. Might want to read the whole thread.

Only if you travel INTERstate do you need the USDOT #. If you don't leave your own state, or like MN here, if you don't travel more than 30 miles into the surrounding states, you do NOT need the USDOT #. It's called travelling INTRAtate.

[Eclipse]

Only if you travel INTERstate do you need the USDOT #. If you don't leave your own state, or like MN here, if you don't travel more than 30 miles into the surrounding states, you do NOT need the USDOT #. It's called travelling INTRAtate.

Be careful because not all states are the same. Here in Michigan we do need a US DOT number even if we never leave the state.

[LwnmwrMan22]

Be careful because not all states are the same. Here in Michigan we do need a US DOT number even if we never leave the state.

Correct. I went back and re-read my post and I can see how it reads that I'm infering all states, which I'm not.

The "or" right before my "like here in MN", should not be there.

The post that 'I' had quoted, what I highlighted, that was what I was making my point at.

[Runner]

Except that is changing. We will now be REQUIRED to have a DOT number here in Michigan.

[J&R Landscaping]

Might want to check DOT in your state. Federal DOT says anything over 10,000lbs GCW (gross combination weight) need a DOT number on the side.
GCW is the weight of the truck and trailer as it is on the sticker--ie 9200lb truck and a 14,000lb trailer=GCR 23,200 lbs

The gross combined weight rating (gcwr) would be 23,200 lbs. The truck and trailer dont actually weight that much. Or am I missing something?

[AndyTblc]

What is the difference betwen a regular plate and a commercial plate?

[stumpslawncare]

I would contact your state DOT and see what is needed. Here in Indiana you have to have DOT numbers just like the Big Rigs, which means physicals, truck and trailer inspections, must carry reflective triangles in case you break down, must carry a fire extinguisher. We do not need commercial plates however, and we do not need a chauffeurs license unless we are over 16500combined GVW. Kinda sucks any guy can run up and down the street with his truck and trailer but if you are a business you get sucked into the extra cost and hassle. Like I said get on-line and search for your states dot and get in touch with them ,tell them what you are doing and they will tell you what you need to do.

[Runner]

Where is our new friend d&r lawncare? I haven't seen him on in a while, but HE would be the one ask at this time in this thread. It is always so cool to hear it from someone who is a direct authority, and this guy definitely knows his business. :)

[Briarpatch Joe]

DOT weight (when you are pulled on the scale) IS THE WEIGHT ON THE VIN PLATE ie a 14,000 lb trailer is 14,000lbs no matter what you have on unless it's an overweight-then you can't be over 14,000
A vin plate pick-up of 9200 and a 14,000lb trailer has a DOT GVW of 23200 lbs
You don't have to tag it for that much if you don't need the weight. DOT regs are on the web under Department of Transportation
(clear as mud?)

[Briarpatch Joe]

Just like Stump's said---in Maryland, Del, Pa, and NJ--the states we work in---you need DOT numbers on your truck just like the big rigs----Reflectors, fire equip and all

[d&rlawncare]

What is the difference betwen a regular plate and a commercial plate?


Nothing but the price--- you get a sticker to place on it for the weight you declare. Its called an EGVW (Elected Gross Vehicle Weight) You dont need it unless your trucks empty weight is 8001 pounds or more. Regardless if you have a trailer or not. MICHIGAN LAW ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[d&rlawncare]

DOT weight (when you are pulled on the scale) IS THE WEIGHT ON THE VIN PLATE ie a 14,000 lb trailer is 14,000lbs no matter what you have on unless it's an overweight-then you can't be over 14,000
A vin plate pick-up of 9200 and a 14,000lb trailer has a DOT GVW of 23200 lbs
You don't have to tag it for that much if you don't need the weight. DOT regs are on the web under Department of Transportation
(clear as mud?)

The weight on the VIN plate is actually called GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) Thats what the manfc. sets as a limit as the truck/trailer was designed. If your trailer says GVWR 14000 thats the weight of the trailer plus any load.

[d&rlawncare]

Where is our new friend d&r lawncare? I haven't seen him on in a while, but HE would be the one ask at this time in this thread. It is always so cool to hear it from someone who is a direct authority, and this guy definitely knows his business. :)

I'm here...been busy looking at mowers and waiting for bids to come back..only 1 so far.

Here is a list, just keep in mind there are alot of IF'S:

GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) Truck and trailer-- If this is above 10001 pounds then you will need:

Drivers license
DOT medical card
Fire Extenguisher
Warning Triangles
*Annual Inspections (truck and trailer)
**Reflective tape on trailer
Proof of Insurance
Safety chains crossed
Brakes on trailer (3000 pounds or more including load)
Secured load
Working lights (carry extra bulbs if you have a turn signal out/brake light out you will be placed out of service--cant drive til you fix it)


*Very easy to fill out yourself and sign. Just make sure you check everything on the form. You must carry the original or copy with you for proof. Not saying to forge it but it will save you $$$ on having someone look at your truck and trailer.
** trailer must have GVWR 10001 or more and be 80" or wider. Reflective tape must cover 50% of each side and entire back as much as you can working around gates and lights.

If your trucks GVWR 10,000 or more then you need a chauffeurs license-MI law---truck only-regardless of trailer

DOT numbers--no dates yet when they are going to make it a must. Best just to get it now. I will post when the date is when it comes out. They will give at least a year when it does come out before they enforce it.

If your trucks empty weight is 8001 or more you need an EGVW plate regardless if you tow a trailer or not.

CArry your trailer registration certificate with you (yes 90% of people dont) and we are required to get the VIN numbers off truck and trailer for our citations and inspections. There is nothing worse than getting on your knees to copy a VIN number down off the trailer when cars are buzzing by you at 55 MPH. If you get a binder and can just hand it to the officer then it makes things easier for us all. Plus your drivers wont spend 10 min searching through the Mt Dew cans/BK wrappers etc while I stand in the rain. Our stops take about 20-40 min mostly depending on how long it takes the driver to find all the required stuff. Even if we dont write a ticket we still have the inspection form to fill out. Make an extra copy of all your stuff especially if you have crews. They will lose your stuff and you will spend time at SOS getting copies and wasting your time.

What are those things you guys use to secure your mowers: prolocks? I will search on the threads. I have trailing on the 18th of Jan and want to run it by the state. But from what I have read it seems that they meet the requirements.


I am sure I forgot some stuff I will reread this later and see what I left out.

Any questions....fire away. I love them cause it keeps me on my toes.:walking:

[mtdman]

Well, I gotta tell you I never knew these things about commercial plates and the rest of the DOT regulations. This has been a very enlightening thread. In fact, about 2 months ago here in Ann Arbor I was at a stop light and a cop pulled up to let me know that one of my trailer lights wasn't working. Then went on his way! It was a loose plug and took no time to fix. And then to top all that off, in October I happened to notice that my license plate on the trailer was missing. Looks like it was either busted off or someone stole it. I have no idea how long I was driving without that on the trailer, but I know for a fact I had driven in front of cops that never bothered with it. Looks like I have to go get commercial plates for at least half the year next season, and I applied for the DOT number. What I don't understand is the medical card. Even if you're just pulling a single axel trailer with a f150 you still need this? What exactly is it, how do I get it?

[Runner]

the medical is needed if your GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) Truck and trailer is above 10001 pounds.

[PROCUT1]

That a pain in the butt to change youre license plates every few months....Here all you get is commericial plates for a pickup regardless if you use it for business or personal.

[d&rlawncare]

the medical is needed if your GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) Truck and trailer is above 10001 pounds.


Correct........................

[d&rlawncare]

Well, I gotta tell you I never knew these things about commercial plates and the rest of the DOT regulations. This has been a very enlightening thread. In fact, about 2 months ago here in Ann Arbor I was at a stop light and a cop pulled up to let me know that one of my trailer lights wasn't working. Then went on his way! It was a loose plug and took no time to fix. And then to top all that off, in October I happened to notice that my license plate on the trailer was missing. Looks like it was either busted off or someone stole it. I have no idea how long I was driving without that on the trailer, but I know for a fact I had driven in front of cops that never bothered with it. Looks like I have to go get commercial plates for at least half the year next season, and I applied for the DOT number. What I don't understand is the medical card. Even if you're just pulling a single axel trailer with a f150 you still need this? What exactly is it, how do I get it?

If all your driving is an F150 pulling a trailer I doubt the f150 weighs more than 8000 pounds. So you would not need the commercial plates. Dont waste $491.00 on the commercial plate vs. the $120.00 or so for the normal plate.
You get the medical card from your family doctor. Call them and make sure they do them first. If not try a redi-care office.

[mtdman]

So now you're telling me I don't need a commercial plate with a trailer?

[d&rlawncare]

So now you're telling me I don't need a commercial plate with a trailer?


You will NOT need one if your truck is less than 8001 pounds. REGARDELSS if you pull a trailer or not.

[Runner]

...unless it is a stake rack, dump truck, or van body (like a Ryder truck). Also, this includes any stake body even if it is homemade. If you build a way-cool wood bed out of 2x4 and plywood; if it exceeds out over the rear wheels - widthwise, it is considered a stake. Any truck of this type that pulls a trailer is required to have a GVW tag (24,000 is the minimum available). (From my "hard luck" education series.) lol

[Eclipse]

d&r,
Are runners comments accurate about the trucks requiring a EGVW plate?

[d&rlawncare]

...unless it is a stake rack, dump truck, or van body (like a Ryder truck). Also, this includes any stake body even if it is homemade. If you build a way-cool wood bed out of 2x4 and plywood; if it exceeds out over the rear wheels - widthwise, it is considered a stake. Any truck of this type that pulls a trailer is required to have a GVW tag (24,000 is the minimum available). (From my "hard luck" education series.) lol


Old law yes your right....

NEW law: ONLY if it weighs over 8000 pounds....

[d&rlawncare]

d&r,
Are runners comments accurate about the trucks requiring a EGVW plate?


If the truck weighs over 8000 pounds then yes he is right. The empty weight of a truck, be it dump, stake, van style etc MUST be over 8000 pounds now. Regardless if it tows a trailer or not.

[lawnman_scott]

Interesting thread. Do you guys in MI think this is a good idea? I think its a waste of taxpayers money, and some of the fees are outragous for a small company. From what I see on here MI and IN seem to be the worst by far.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

Interesting thread. Do you guys in MI think this is a good idea? I think its a waste of taxpayers money, and some of the fees are outragous for a small company. From what I see on here MI and IN seem to be the worst by far.

Indiana's not near as bad as Michigan at all .... thank goodness!
.
.

[Eclipse]

Interesting thread. Do you guys in MI think this is a good idea? I think its a waste of taxpayers money, and some of the fees are outragous for a small company.

What exactly is a waste of taxpayers money?

IMO I don't think any of the fees to be legal are outragous? The most expensive thing would be an EGVW plate and this pretty much only applies if you have a 1 ton or larger truck. It is just a cost of doing business.

[Runner]

d&r, I just want to make sure this is clarified to the people who were wondering about this.
So it IS still true then, that regardless if they are 8000# or under OR over,...they are still required to have a GVW tag if they are pulling a trailer, correct?
Your last post, you were basically emphasizing that if the truck (of the types discussed) weigh over 8000#, then they need a GVW tag, regardless if they pull a trailer or not. Correct? (Refer to post # 81 of this thread) Sorry for the confusion, and thank you again.

[d&rlawncare]

The truck must weigh OVER 8000 pounds now to be required to have an EGVW plate.

It does not matter what type of truck it is or if its pulling a trailer or not.

Does this help? and sorry if it was my posting that made this confusing...

[d&rlawncare]

The truck must weigh OVER 8000 pounds now to be required to have an EGVW plate.

It does not matter what type of truck it is or if its pulling a trailer or not.

Does this help? and sorry if it was my posting that made this confusing...

Are there any bigger companies on this MI thread. When I say bigger I mean 5+ trucks/crews that have been running EGVW plates and now dont have to?

I have called most local companies, Royal/HTA/Knott and Sons/D&G Equipment etc and let them know about this change.

D&G equipment has 15 trucks that run EGVW plates that dont need them anymore. It will save them approx 5565.00 a year. They are the ones I will be buying from this spring. Think they will give me a deal on my ZTR???? just kidding!

[mtdman]

I have to renew my plates at the end of the month, and I kinda need to know what I'm supposed to do now. To be clear, since my truck is under 8000 lbs, I don't need the commercial plate if I'm towing a trailer commercially? In other words, I am under 8000 lbs and I will be towing a trailer. Commercial plates, yes or no?

I am thinking about upgrading to a double axle trailer this spring as well. I really need to know what to do so I'm not wasting money renewing the wrong plates.

[LwnmwrMan22]

I have to renew my plates at the end of the month, and I kinda need to know what I'm supposed to do now. To be clear, since my truck is under 8000 lbs, I don't need the commercial plate if I'm towing a trailer commercially? In other words, I am under 8000 lbs and I will be towing a trailer. Commercial plates, yes or no?

I am thinking about upgrading to a double axle trailer this spring as well. I really need to know what to do so I'm not wasting money renewing the wrong plates.

Why don't you just go to the license bureau and ask them??

[Eclipse]

Why don't you just go to the license bureau and ask them??

Because quite often they are wrong :) At least that is the case around here.

To answer the question, I think you will still need a commercial plate, just not a EGVW plate.

[d&rlawncare]

Because quite often they are wrong :) At least that is the case around here.

To answer the question, I think you will still need a commercial plate, just not a EGVW plate.

IF your trucks empty weight is under 8,000 pounds you DO NOT need a EGVW plate. No matter if you tow a trailer or not!!!!! This means the actual weight of your truck when you scale it out. Take out all tools etc and weigh it.. If its under 8000 pounds get a normal plate. If you send me a picture of it I can tell you if its under 8000 pounds (8 out of 10 times anyways) or you can spend $10 to get it weighed. any questions just PM me.

And whoever said it is right: SOS is wrong more than they are right!!!!!!:dizzy:

oh yeah in MI the EGVW is the commercial plate

[Runner]

Where is the best place to get it weighed? I have a 1 ton Chevy flatbed, and have purchased the EGVW tag for several years. My tag on the doorjam says 8000 lbs., but if I get it weighed and I can make it come less, then would I be able to just go with a regular plate? I can empty the tool box and pull the wood sides off...I figure this will help. Here are some pics of my truck on pg. 3 of this thread. Your input is greatly appreciated. I WILL be pulling a trailer with this truck. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=49665&page=3&highlight=pics
Thanks.

[Mike's Lawn & Snow]

I was told by 3 different people that if you have a truck pulling a trailer for commercial use over 10,000lbs combined weight then you need to have a weighted plate. I even got pulled over for not having one and the cop told me I needed one.

[Eclipse]

I was just going to say,...that would be about right. A commercial plate runs about $140. It is only if you require a GVW tag that it REALLY goes up.

This is the info, posted earlier in this thread, that I was I was going off from on my previous comment.

So there is no spearate commercial plate in Michigan, just EGVW plates? I;m glad this question was now answered as well as I would have went on believing there was a difference and tried to buy a commercial non-egvw plate.

[d&rlawncare]

Where is the best place to get it weighed? I have a 1 ton Chevy flatbed, and have purchased the EGVW tag for several years. My tag on the doorjam says 8000 lbs., but if I get it weighed and I can make it come less, then would I be able to just go with a regular plate? I can empty the tool box and pull the wood sides off...I figure this will help. Here are some pics of my truck on pg. 3 of this thread. Your input is greatly appreciated. I WILL be pulling a trailer with this truck. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=49665&page=3&highlight=pics
Thanks.

Is it a desiel? It will be close with if it is. best bet is to weigh it. Most of your truck stops have a scale. Do you have a CAT dealer or gravel pit in the area? If you call a truck stop and they dont have one they will know who does. By the way nice set-up.

The tag on the door is the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) and has nothing to do with the actual weight of your truck. We are talking ACTUAL weight. Empty all the BS off, go on an empty tank. Most important...get out when you weigh it. 200 pounds could make you go over.

Under 8000 pounds with or without a trailer= NO EGVW plate. I can fax you this info as well. I know its hard to take someones word over the net.

[d&rlawncare]

I was told by 3 different people that if you have a truck pulling a trailer for commercial use over 10,000lbs combined weight then you need to have a weighted plate. I even got pulled over for not having one and the cop told me I needed one.

A cop or DOT guy? Most cops dont know. It not a stab at them its just that its not what they specialize in. There are MANY MANY different things when it comes to commercial vehicles. I could type for days. But we are talking REGISTRATION here. You do not need a EGVW plate unless your trucks empty weight is above 8000 pounds. NOT GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating)or GCWR (Gross combination weight rating).

When it comes to medical cards, fire ext, warning triangles, carrier ID, cargo securement they all have there own little seperate rules that apply to them. Thats what confuses most people.

again i can fax the info if needed.

[Runner]

Man,...thank you for ALL the info you have given, and yes..I'll certainly take your word for it. That's what I was all confused with before...because I was always told by the state police Carrier control that thattruck had to have a GVW tag because any flatbed pulling a trailer was required. Apparently, that is all changed, now. We DO have recycling scrapyards around here with scales. Would those work? Wow,...this will save me alot of money over the years. Oh, and thank you for the compliment! :)

[d&rlawncare]

Man,...thank you for ALL the info you have given, and yes..I'll certainly take your word for it. That's what I was all confused with before...because I was always told by the state police Carrier control that thattruck had to have a GVW tag because any flatbed pulling a trailer was required. Apparently, that is all changed, now. We DO have recycling scrapyards around here with scales. Would those work? Wow,...this will save me alot of money over the years. Oh, and thank you for the compliment! :)

The scrap yard will work. As long as you know what the weight is. This law changed in Oct.

[d&rlawncare]

Man,...thank you for ALL the info you have given, and yes..I'll certainly take your word for it. That's what I was all confused with before...because I was always told by the state police Carrier control that thattruck had to have a GVW tag because any flatbed pulling a trailer was required. Apparently, that is all changed, now. We DO have recycling scrapyards around here with scales. Would those work? Wow,...this will save me alot of money over the years. Oh, and thank you for the compliment! :)

RUNNER. I was looking at the law today and overlooked the fact that you are a flatbed. The Law specifically states pickups under 8000 pounds. The next question is what does your registration say it is registered as? A pickup, stake-bed, utility etc. If its anything but pickup then (the way the law reads) you will need an EGVW.

I DO NOT agree with this. Its a loophole that sucks. The only thing you are changing whenyou remove the bed of yor truck is the appearance and not the design. If you remove the bed or buy one with no bed. Throw some wood down and some wood signs. Its still a pickup just with a different style bed. I just dont think you should be penalized for this.

Are your plates due soon? I have training the 18th with the whole district and want to run this by the LT's that will be there. Sorry for any confusion.

There is nothing in the motor vehicle code that defines PICKUP. only truck!

[Team-Green L&L]

Am I wrong for wishing ill-will on those who don't follow business laws? My overhead is much higher because of commercial plates, commercial insurance, CDL's, and many other things. Why do I have to do these things (along with every other real business owner) but 90% of the LCO's aren't? PULL EM OVER MOUNTIE!!!!!:nono: :nono: :nono:

Wow. I guess we all know now how important commercial plates are (at least in MI), although I bet 90% of LCO's do not have commercial plates on their pickups.

It has been talked about before here and I have inquired about it at the sec of state (I'll see if I can find a link) and yes, if your GVWR is over 10,000 (your F250 is what 8,800? and 3,500 for the trailer) and it is for commercial use then your need commercial plates to the tune about around $500 per year.

Add that expense to the growing overhead in this industry.

[bigjeeping]

D&R... I have EGVW plates on my trucks, obviously the 450 needs it, and I thought the 250 does because the GVWR is above 8000.... but now you're saying as long as the ACTUAL weight is under 8000 it doesn't need the EGVW plate? Well I know the actual dry weight of the 250 is less than 8000lbs. BUT - the MCE officer told me that if the combined GVWR of truck & trailer is above 10,001lbs then I need the EGVW plate on the truck! He even gave me a phamplet which said the same thing..... im so confused.

[Runner]

Yes,..My truck is registered as a Stake. Even if it were listed as a p/u, I have been told by different carrier control officers the same thing... The latest was Trooper Mead (pretty cool guy), who confirmed that even if it is a p/u with a homemade bed, one the the whole bed comes out over the wheels, then it is a stake. He said many people get the confused and falsely think that the truck has to have dual wheels to require the GVW tag.
I had my hopes up...thinking that the law had changed,:cry: ...and I guess now, I'll just have to bear with it...a $500 a year glorified licence plate.:realmad:
I DO thank you for the help, though.:)

[LawnTamer]

Man, I just read the first few pages of this thread and I have got to say, I'm glad I live in Utah. Sounds like a ton of hoops and red tape to me, (just what small business owners need more of). I guess we've come a long way from "Give me liberty, or give me death."

[LwnmwrMan22]

Something I can't wait for....

The small town here (pop. about 2000), says they want to put up a commercial vehicle inspection station, because of all the trucks coming from a town 3 miles away through their town.

The town 3 miles away has a pop. of about 500. :dizzy:

It also has it's own freeway access.

Doesn't the local town here think that the trucks (about 15) will just get on the freeway at their own town??

Even if they went through the local town with the inspection station, once the trucks are inspected, do they think that every day these same 15-20 commercial vehicles are going to have things broken???

What another complete waste of money if this goes through.

[Runner]

They will probably get a dated inspection tag that is put either on the windshield, or on the dash.

[Team-Green L&L]

Those Michigan laws are rough though! I do have empathy for the LCO's up there.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

Instead of Michigan worrying so much about this tax and that tax on vehicles ... how this trooper enforces them, and how that trooper enforces them ... this costing this much if it weighs over this, or costing so much if the bed comes out over the wheels ... etc., etc., etc. ...

Why not just raise property taxes and forget all this crap? Get a life Michigan lawmakers ... worry about more important things like crime prevention, educational programs, medical programs for the needy, etc! Come on ... it's 2007 .... not 1970!

Off the soapbox now ... glad I'm not a politician :nono:
.

[d&rlawncare]

D&R... I have EGVW plates on my trucks, obviously the 450 needs it, and I thought the 250 does because the GVWR is above 8000.... but now you're saying as long as the ACTUAL weight is under 8000 it doesn't need the EGVW plate? Well I know the actual dry weight of the 250 is less than 8000lbs. BUT - the MCE officer told me that if the combined GVWR of truck & trailer is above 10,001lbs then I need the EGVW plate on the truck! He even gave me a phamplet which said the same thing..... im so confused.

PM me a fax or mailing address and I can mail you the info. i am off til tuesday.

[d&rlawncare]

Just a side note. Isnt it sad on how the bed of your truck can make you pay $492.00 for a plate instead of $120.00? To me all trucks under 8000 pounds should be treated the same. It has to do with the weight of a truck not the design.

[Potchkins]

ok, well I found out that YES you do need a chuaffer's endorsement in this case:

With a gross vehicle weight (GVW), gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), gross combination weight (GCW), or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 10,001 pounds or more.

but im still looking into if I need commercial plates or not, if anyone finds anything let me know

if it was based on GCWR...
ie.99 explorer 4 door 4.0 ohc V6 3.73 gear 2 or 4wd 10,000 GCWR
98 F-150 2 door 4.2 V6 reg cab 2wd 3.55 gear 10,000 GCWR
then they could rite a ticket to the
delivery girl from the corner pharmacy

i belive this is suposed to be GVWR of over 10,000 for the trailer being pulled

[Potchkins]

[QUOTE=befnme]

#1...No i dont think they are but someone on drugs or alc. have a much higher chance to cause an accident....and i would much rather get hit by a 3-4k lb car or truck then a 10,000 truck pulling a 7k trailer....also the other thing is your avrg. person isnt driving all over the place...they go to the bank, store, work, a friends, ect...a lawn co. is going from house to house to house or biz. all day so they spend more time on the roads.

#2 yes they can, but they again are not driving a small dump truck with 5k lbs. of dirt in then back & a 5k of trailer/equipment. A good example is my father, he for a few year couldnt bend his leg enough to safely drive a stick...so he wouldnt pass...now that he has had sugery and had his knee replaced he can bend it and passes the physical...and now he can drive anything commmercial.

#3 I agree with you for the most part, except..the incentive is not always enough. and if its not law it makes it an option. the avrg. person is driving a car, light truck, or suv...non of which weighs 10,000 lbs or more (maybe hummers..dont know how much they weigh), and they are not pulling trailers all day everyday.

as for it applying to everyone..
a semi is hauling up to 80 tons in our state um, i think they laws should be dif. for them..and yes they should pay more to plate there trucks. This is what causes potholes (and the freeze & thaw cycle). and they can kill a lot more people in that then a guy in a car.

as for this..
"how many white haired people do you see driving every day ? do you think they could pass the same physical the we take to posses a cdl ? i think not"
no, which is why we have the test in the 1st place. so i guess we agree on that. thats why they are not driving the dumptrucks ect..

the long & short of it is the biz. trucks on the road spend much more time driving..using the roads..so they charge more for them.

Its just like the lawn that takes 5 mins. and pays $25 compared to the 5 acres that take 1 hour and pays $250
why are they paying $250? because it takes more time and wear and tear.
a semi is hauling up to 80 tons in our state


80 tons...? 160,000 lbs that's twice the legal limit

[amw]

[QUOTE=amw;1463506]
a semi is hauling up to 80 tons in our state


80 tons...? 160,000 lbs that's twice the legal limit

limit in your state maybe, in Michigan you can haul more weight..durring the corect seasons.
They have changed the laws since this pdf was made...but not regaurding the weights alowed on the road..
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf

[d&rlawncare]

if it was based on GCWR...
ie.99 explorer 4 door 4.0 ohc V6 3.73 gear 2 or 4wd 10,000 GCWR
98 F-150 2 door 4.2 V6 reg cab 2wd 3.55 gear 10,000 GCWR
then they could rite a ticket to the
delivery girl from the corner pharmacy

i belive this is suposed to be GVWR of over 10,000 for the trailer being pulled

For CHAUFFEURS license---> The GVWR of the power unit (truck) has to be 10,000 or more. It has nothing to do with GCWR. And yes if the local delivery girl, pizza boy ets is driving a truck with a GVWR 10,000 or more then they need a chauffeurs license.

[Potchkins]

limit in your state maybe, in Michigan you can haul more weight..durring the corect seasons.
They have changed the laws since this pdf was made...but not regaurding the weights alowed on the road..
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/gvw_19180_7.pdf

the GVWR of an 18 wheeler (5 axles = Truck 3 / Trailer 2) is 80,000 lbs
anything more is either, overweight or requires special permits, flags,
"OVERSIZE LOAD" or "WIDE LOAD" signs and many other requirements.

[Potchkins]

For CHAUFFEURS license---> The GVWR of the power unit (truck) has to be 10,000 or more. It has nothing to do with GCWR. And yes if the local delivery girl, pizza boy ets is driving a truck with a GVWR 10,000 or more then they need a chauffeurs license.

my point was "It has nothing to do with GCWR.", as the local pizza boy
probably wouldn't be delivering in a F-450

[Eclipse]

the GVWR of an 18 wheeler (5 axles = Truck 3 / Trailer 2) is 80,000 lbs
anything more is either, overweight or requires special permits, flags,
"OVERSIZE LOAD" or "WIDE LOAD" signs and many other requirements.

In Michigan there are plenty of trailers with more than 2 axles. Most of these trailers do not need any special flags and are not overweight.

How about one truck and two trailers with 3+ axles per trailer? Ever see a gravel train (that's what we call them around here)?

Or a tanker? The fuel tankers around here have quite a few more axles than just two.

[Eclipse]

my point was "It has nothing to do with GCWR.",

Agreed it was a mistake and was cleared up earlier in this thread.

[Runner]

For CHAUFFEURS license---> The GVWR of the power unit (truck) has to be 10,000 or more. It has nothing to do with GCWR. And yes if the local delivery girl, pizza boy ets is driving a truck with a GVWR 10,000 or more then they need a chauffeurs license.

Also, this is a combined weight thing, isn't it? the reason I ask, is that I am required to have this for my rig. I also am required to keep an updated DOT medical certificate. With my 1 ton, (that green truck), my 18 ft trailer has two 1500# axles. Of course, the brakes on both axles, and brakeway system all go without saying. I am so much better off to just use a regular pickup truck for the trailer, but I love my 1 ton...:rolleyes: I've heard alot of guys say the heck with it...they'll take their chances with the regular plates,...and pay their tickets once in awhile (if they're stopped). The money saved in the long WAY MORE than compensates.:hammerhead:

[mtdman]

A cop or DOT guy? Most cops dont know. It not a stab at them its just that its not what they specialize in. There are MANY MANY different things when it comes to commercial vehicles. I could type for days. But we are talking REGISTRATION here. You do not need a EGVW plate unless your trucks empty weight is above 8000 pounds. NOT GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating)or GCWR (Gross combination weight rating).

When it comes to medical cards, fire ext, warning triangles, carrier ID, cargo securement they all have there own little seperate rules that apply to them. Thats what confuses most people.

again i can fax the info if needed.

So, if I'm under the 8000 lb weight limit, whether or not I pull a trailer for commercial use, I don't need the plate. If I had a bigger truck (I just have an F150 now) I would need the plate.

But because I do pull a trailer for commercial use, I have to have the med card, fire ext, warning triangles, carrier id, cargo secured, etc.

So where does combined vehicle weight come into play? And if I go to a multi axle trailer, where do I find info about brakes and safety devices?

Thanks!
:D

[d&rlawncare]

So, if I'm under the 8000 lb weight limit, whether or not I pull a trailer for commercial use, I don't need the plate. If I had a bigger truck (I just have an F150 now) I would need the plate.

But because I do pull a trailer for commercial use, I have to have the med card, fire ext, warning triangles, carrier id, cargo secured, etc.

So where does combined vehicle weight come into play? And if I go to a multi axle trailer, where do I find info about brakes and safety devices?

Thanks!
:D

If your pickup is under 8000 then you do not need one, you are correct.

Yes you do need the med, fire ext, id etc when your combined GVWR, truck and trailer, (GCWR) is above 10,000 pounds. 99% of LCO's are.

The actual combined vehicle weight does not come into play unless your talking OVERWEIGHT. The combined weight rating (GVWR) comes into play for the federal regs (med card, trianles, fire ext, is etc)

[Runner]

My 3/4 ton P/U will require a GVW tag to pull a trailer, but it isn't getting it. Not another truck. LOL I'll take the ticket if I ever get pulled THEN I'll get the plate for that period. They get my $500 for one truck, they aren't getting it for both. I carry the chauffer's endorsement, medical cert., triangles, and extinguisher, but they ain't getting $400 more per year.

[Mower For Less]

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949


257.6 “Chauffeur” defined.

Sec. 6.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), “chauffeur” means any of the following:

............................

(h) A parent or parent's designee for the purpose of transporting pupils to or from school and school related events.



Sorry for being so late in seeing this, and maybe being slightly off topic, but am I to understand this correctly that you need a Chauffeurs License to LEGALLY drive you kids to school???

And if I am perhaps misreading it, and it really means you need a Chauffeurs license to drive OTHER peoples kids to school? If so, this would be a great excuse... no Billy, I cant give your friends a ride, its illegal.. lol.

I know this sounds like I am poking fun at the law, but I would seriously like to know an answer to this odd bit of legislation.

Thanks!
Kevin

[d&rlawncare]

My 3/4 ton P/U will require a GVW tag to pull a trailer, but it isn't getting it. Not another truck. LOL I'll take the ticket if I ever get pulled THEN I'll get the plate for that period. They get my $500 for one truck, they aren't getting it for both. I carry the chauffer's endorsement, medical cert., triangles, and extinguisher, but they ain't getting $400 more per year.

You will end up spending the $500 for the plate, $160 for the ticket. They will take your plate, and they can legally make you park until you get properly plated so lets say a 1/2 day mowing lost. ($200 at least)

So you could end up loosing $360 for the $400 you dont want to spend. Then spend another $400 to get the plate. Is it really worth it?

[LwnmwrMan22]

My 3/4 ton P/U will require a GVW tag to pull a trailer, but it isn't getting it. Not another truck. LOL I'll take the ticket if I ever get pulled THEN I'll get the plate for that period. They get my $500 for one truck, they aren't getting it for both. I carry the chauffer's endorsement, medical cert., triangles, and extinguisher, but they ain't getting $400 more per year.

I THINK Runner is talking tongue in cheek.....

[d&rlawncare]

I THINK Runner is talking tongue in cheek.....

Yeah I was just trying to point out that IF someone decides not to get the plate it could cost them twice as much not to get it.

I rarely stop the small or solo LCO's running around. If I see them alot I will stop them and let them know. Most seem not to realize they are in violation. Dont get me wrong there are a few around here (big and small) that just dont care and are a real safety issue. Those guys need to be stopped weekly.

[LwnmwrMan22]

Yeah I was just trying to point out that IF someone decides not to get the plate it could cost them twice as much not to get it.

I rarely stop the small or solo LCO's running around. If I see them alot I will stop them and let them know. Most seem not to realize they are in violation. Dont get me wrong there are a few around here (big and small) that just dont care and are a real safety issue. Those guys need to be stopped weekly.

This is pretty much what the commercial vehicle enforcers are doing here as well, as much educating people as to what the laws are, rather than writing tickets.

If you're unsafe to be on the road (non-working lights / brakes) you're flagged and made to park until it's fixed, but usually, unless it's a repeat offense, no ticket is issued.

[Sammy]

I know this thread is old, but some good reading.

[1wezil]

i know i will check into it here in Tenn. so i know the laws i think i will stop at the cop shop in town and talk to them they may be able to help.

[LwnmwrMan22]

I've actually contacted the Minnesota Highway patrol now that it's off season, and they're stopping by this week, to check and make sure everything's legal, while I'm not on the road.

This way I can make sure everything's good to go before I get pulled over during the season.

I've been inspected before, about 5 times now, and there's always been different issues, depending on the inspector.

Hopefully if I get it straight from the horse's mouth, I can get by without having to worry about having issues in the summer.