Landscape contracting businesses all terminate in 10 years

[mdvaden]

Here's the deal.

If illegal immigration supporters succeed in amnesty and allowing the illegals to remain in the USA, which basically overtakes federal law, then state law will be even easier to overtake.

So if your state requires a landscape contracting license, it probably won't require a license or credentials in 10 years if illegal immigrants succeed at circumventing federal law.

Doesn't that seem feasible.

Landscape maintenance and work, or agriculture seems to them like pollen to busy bees, so landscape installs would be icing on the cake.

How many of you have developed business plans for folding your business in 7 to 10 years?

[AWJ Services]

If illegal immigration supporters succeed in amnesty and allowing the illegals to remain in the USA, which basically overtakes federal law, then state law will be even easier to overtake.

In my opinion it would only be a paper thing.They are already here and no one is making them leave so legal or not the laws are already being ignored.

One Positive is if they decide too grant them citizenship then they also will have too pay taxes.
So in my Market it will force wages up so companies that have been benefiting with using illegal immigrants will know have too compete evenly with legitimate companies.

Also in Ga we have no State Mandated Licensing in the Landscape industry so what you are describing runs Rampant in Ga.

[NickN]

So in my Market it will force wages up so companies that have been benefiting with using illegal immigrants will know have too compete evenly with legitimate companies.
I see the opposite happening.How many of us got minority owned business grants from the federal goverment?Well,all of these new "minoritys" will qualify as Disadvantaged Minority Business Owners(yes there are fed grants and preferences given to this group).So,what you'll see is the ,presently illegal population ,starting their own landscape/construction/cleaning/etc.,, business' with your money.They'll be given preferences on every state and federal contract,due to the minority factor,and current citizen owned business' will be pushed aside.It's kinda ironic that an industry that lauds how hard illegals work and that they're "needed" will be undone by the very ones they employee.

[TPnTX]

You don't have to have a license in Texas and if you throw stick you'll hit a Mexican. So I'm not so sure about your 10 year prediction.

All I know is that if you need day labor, you go down to one of the many work force locations or to one of the many pickup spots scattered throughout DFW and you can have all the day labor that you need. One place they'll work for 7.50 another you can't get anyone to jump in your truck for less that 10.00 an hour.

If they were not there I'd be bitching at some lazy ass white kid or trying to resucitate some brother that don't know the meaning of earning a dollar. Not to mention the cigarette breaks.

So it may not break down to benefit the country as a whole but here in North Texas one of the strongest economies in the country, if we didn't have mexicans we would not be were we are. If you don't have mexicans construction will stop

A few weeks back when on Mexican day when they all took the day off. You should have seen the roads around here. It's all pretty much construction anywhere east of dallas off I-30 and on that day it was light.

So anyway back to the labor camps, when you pull up at one place you just get swarmed. You have to weed through the dummies and the occasional hung over white guy yourself. Another place is ran by the city. You get in line like at McDonalds or should I say Taco bell and this dude will come up to your truck and ask, how many, what for and how much. You select the guys you want and they climb in. Good workers are usually easy to spot.
1st they are cool.
They wear a cap, good boots and jeans.
A good one will usually have his sack lunch in hand.
after a while you learn to spot hard workers.*newusflag*

Besides Mexican Americans not only like to get into gang fights, they love flowers and music and girls named Debbie too.

[AL Inc]

I see what you are saying...and it is happening here already. I have no plan for closing shop in 7-10 years, but time will tell. I hope not to still be in the maintenance business by then. I guess I will be worried when these guys can actually communicate the same as I can with a client, go to night school and get a horticulture degree like I did, design a landscape and sell a job like I can, build up the same clientele and contacts that I have, and figure out how to run a profitable business like I have.

[AWJ Services]

So,what you'll see is the ,presently illegal population ,starting their own landscape/construction/cleaning/etc.,, business' with your money

Georgia is full of Illegal Mexican contractors.
As of know I pay for there schooling and most of there Health care.
At least if they would were leagl I would only be paying for there Buisness.
And on that point they will then have too compete with me on even ground.
I will take my chances.

[Lucky1]

Simple ,don't hire them they will go home on thier own. Jail any employer hireing them, like 5yrs. per illegal , and confiscate thier business . Why are a lot of American citizens good enough to go to war but not hire? People who can't run thier business legaly should go get a job with some one else.:usflag:

[mdvaden]

I see what you are saying...and it is happening here already. I have no plan for closing shop in 7-10 years, but time will tell. I hope not to still be in the maintenance business by then. I guess I will be worried when these guys can actually communicate the same as I can with a client, go to night school and get a horticulture degree like I did, design a landscape and sell a job like I can, build up the same clientele and contacts that I have, and figure out how to run a profitable business like I have.

You did seem to see what I was saying.

One, part of the thread intent is partially humorous (and I didn't even drink or smoke anything when I wrote it :) )

I'm referring to these guy owning their own businesses; UNLICENSED. Because if they can (using masses) circumvent federal law, they could do it on a state level, circumventing license tests and requirements.

Even if they did get a license, no, they don't have to pay taxes. If they work under their own personal name, if the checks are written to them, they can go to the bank and just cash it under the radar. That's what happens without a DBA name or incorporation.

Some offer cash discounts for cash payment. I just put a water feature in, where the hispanics hauling a brush pile were asked if they wanted cash. They said yes. I don't know if they were legit or not, but it reminded me that they can evade taxes very easy.

[AWJ Services]

Even if they did get a license, no, they don't have to pay taxes. If they work under their own personal name, if the checks are written to them, they can go to the bank and just cash it under the radar. That's what happens without a DBA name or incorporation.

Neither do I.
Once they are legal they will Fall under the same Tax rules as any other American.


One, part of the thread intent is partially humorous

I guess I took it more serious than others because I live and work in Atlanta were it is very common.
You cannot hardly find any non Mexican Stone contractors here any longer.

[tthomass]

Screw amnesty.....we went to wars and fight all the time for what we have and it should not be given to ANYBODY illegal. There is a legal process, though it does need improvement. Democrats especially have no backbone on the issue and stand beside them in the capitol. Life may suck in their country and I don't blame them for wanting a better life for their family but there is a process. If you're legal fine, if not well then do whats right or get out. Lifes not easy but don't come to my county waving your flag and asking for amnesty..........that is all.*newusflag*

-And the biggest BS is "we have to have them for these jobs"..........that is only the issue in larger metro areas where education and opportunity are presented to you at a wage that allows you to live life off the farm so to speak. I grew up not in a large metro area and now live in the middle of northern VA.........back home people work because they want to support their family regardless of $5.25hr or whatever. Society is not and never will be an even playing field, some will be higher, some lower and without that any countries economy will be destroyed.

[TPnTX]

Lucky1, based strictly on what you just wrote I will say without reservation you are an idiot.

[TPnTX]

You cannot sit and watch an entire enconomy develop around certain things permitted and certain things not permitted. All you people who say "send em back" "jail the employers" "shoot 'em all" as one S.C. man said on T.V. don't realize what you saying.

Have you ever written A Senator or Congressman. Have you ever voiced your opinion in a public forum? Other that here? Do you vote? Do you have any idea what the consiquences for knee jerk political changes are?

Borders. Yes we should secure our borders not for the honest hard workers necessarilly but for national security.
We need the workers. Our unemployement rate is 4.9. You think if they all left the job would get done. Don't be stupid.

Yes we should find a solution to School Tax and reform the the system. Our system is so broke that I could give a crap who is enrolled. Adminstrative cost is what is killing school districts. I pay of $5000.00 a year in proptery tax. The majority of that goes to Quinlan ISD where I wouldn't dream of sending my kid. Since the Mexican kids are here and will be here tomorrow, you better educate them unless you want to turn into Mexico.

Hosipitals especially the ones in border towns have become clinics. Alright thats a big problem but so are the lazy ass people in the welfare state driving caddilacs. You don't believe me? Go to Shreveport, Go to Alexandria La. What are you going to do send those people back to Africa? nooooo, they are legal.

Tax Dolllars and money being sent back to Mexico. Alright another problem. We're hemoraging money. Fix it. Don't be stupid, be smart. Tax wired money. Tax the hell out of it. Why not you tax my f'n internet service.

I guess ignorant is a better word than idiot but come on did you have a bowl of stupid for breakfast? I can't find any goddamned white guys that will work. What do you think DFW and other areas would do if you played Saddam for a day and rounded them up and sent them packing.

[mdvaden]

A lot of immigrants just work or work hard.

Others are in the established gangs.

It would be no surprise if in 5 years, if not now, that the gangs start to intimidate established US citizens from getting started in the professions that foster to immigrants - like landscaping.

[TPnTX]

so you've now gone from illegal immigrants squeezing out
the little guy to gangs from LA forcing white kids out of their lawn maintenance business. wow. got gangs in oregon huh?

I think the liberal media is doing a fine job don't you?

[tthomass]

i agree, the media is a bunch of idiots

lucky 1..........i support fining those who employee illegals and taking business licenses for repeated offenses

tpntx.........taxing wired money is a good start........i know guys that send thousands back to their countries every month building mansions for them to move back to

gangs are present in my area and i know people with friends in them and a few are prob affiliated but these are the level headed guys...........as for the idiots i have no prob with shoot first

[mdvaden]

so you've now gone from illegal immigrants squeezing out
the little guy to gangs from LA forcing white kids out of their lawn maintenance business. wow. got gangs in oregon huh?

I think the liberal media is doing a fine job don't you?


I don't think that the documentary shows on National Geographic or the History Channel are liberal media. Fox news maybe.

But did you guys miss the documentaries the past month on the California gangs. It gave the names of the gang, the habits, the initiation and explained how they infiltrate neighborhoods.

The authorities deported a bunch of the gang members, but that spread seeds into the other countries they deported them too. At the moment, it's a gang with thousands of members, and it's at least stablized, if not slightly growing.

If you think these immigrant gangs are media hype, they you also thought that they Crips and Bloods were pure imagination too.

But these immigrant gangs far outnumber the Crips and Bloods.

[Lucky1]

TPNTX Guess I kinda hit a sore spot,quess maybe your just another one of those backdoor G W Bush liberals. Have a nice day.

[mdvaden]

One nice thought...

The average USA citizen is so much more resourceful and persevering.

Look at what the Central Americans have built their region into over the years, and look what's been established up here.

Even if a few million came up here and weakened the system a little bit, the Americans would still hold their own.

[TPnTX]

Lucky1 yeah you're right and I will have a nice day. You do the same. That was hurtful, out of line and I appologize.

Backdoor Bush Liberal though? I might be missing your point. Or did you mean Out front Bush conservative?

Fox news. Yeah... liberal uh-hmm. You know the problem with statement is that someone might believe you and be misinformed.


I know there are gangs and that it's no longer an inner city issue. However isn't most of the gang violence commeted against their own? But the real point was gangs intimidating no hispanic Landscape professionals. I...don't see that happening.

[JJLandscapes]

I see what you are saying...and it is happening here already. I have no plan for closing shop in 7-10 years, but time will tell. I hope not to still be in the maintenance business by then. I guess I will be worried when these guys can actually communicate the same as I can with a client, go to night school and get a horticulture degree like I did, design a landscape and sell a job like I can, build up the same clientele and contacts that I have, and figure out how to run a profitable business like I have.


exactly do a good job you will be aroud for the next 50 years.. im sure in 1980 everyone was being just as scared about illegals and new technology that will erase us in 2006 but nothing happened

everyone making a plan to closedown in 10 years take down my email and contact me i will gladly take every customer

[EMWEB]

I vote . . I voice my concern in letters to my various representatives . .I try to educate & open the eyes of my friends . . . But if I have learned nothing else in life with politicians, it is one simple fact in my 52 years . . .

A whisper in the ear and a mere $1000.00 donation from a business or special interest group is heard louder and clearer than the voices of 10,000 voters . . .

If you think about it with an open mind . . . just remember, almost every law that exist makes or saves someone money . . . don't you think that someone who has something to gain by that law is willing to influence it's application . . .

Steve

[mdvaden]

We just got back today from camping at Brooking, Oregon. I sat down to relax and turned on the TV. And what's on MSNBC?

A documentary on the smuggling organization to get illegals in the USA. Apparently, the illegals from Mexico have to dish out as much as $1500 to the organization.

If there is not enough cash in hand, the smugglers will do the job if a relative in the USA is willing to pay afterward. That means that there has to be a gang network in this USA end for a collection service.

[Ideal Lwns & Landscp]

Are there alot of illegal immigrants in Oregon?

[sheshovel]

That's a bunch of BS we here in Cali compete with them everyday and our businesses are still strong.

[mdvaden]

That's a bunch of BS we here in Cali compete with them everyday and our businesses are still strong.

Is it BS?

You said you are "competing" with them - right?

If you didn't have to compete with them, then you folks would exceed "strong" and would harvest the entire portion of wages.

So if the illegals are competing, they are robbing the full harvest of income.

I don't like people getting part of my harvest.

[TPnTX]

you know I guess the best point i could make is that we let this happen. It didn't occur overnight and it directly affects the economy. So you can't just turn things around on a dime and even if you could it would disrupt our economy in a negative way. At least around here it would.

[AztlanLC]

So if the illegals are competing, they are robbing the full harvest of income.

I don't like people getting part of my harvest.

Tell that to the indians

[AGLA]

Amnesty? Like that will make a difference.

First, the illegals up here don't swim the Rio Grande. They come here with tourist visas - legally. Then they just don't go back.

They get licenses to drive in this state. When they get sick or hurt they go to the emergency room and get treated for free. When they get pulled over, they seldom get locked up. Almost no one is looking for them to be charged as illegal aliens. Often they are stopped and the local police contact the INS. The INS tells them to let them go.

When a pair of illegal Brazillians pissed in some cops coffee at a drive through at a local Dunkin Donuts, it was followed by a "Big Roundup" of illegals (16) out of 16,000 that we have on Cape Cod according to the 2000 census.

Amnesty exists right now in that everyone turns a blind eye to it. Currently they are excused from almost any minor crime, traffic violation, and access free health care. Amnesty might take some of those priveledges away (I'm not for amnesty).

I have to say that I have nothing against the individuals who come here. I'd do the same in their shoes. I know many Brazillians, many of whom I'm sure are illegal, and like most that I have met. It does not excuse the fact that we have an immigration problem that needs to be addressed.

Up here they get paid just the same as any other laborer, so it is not cheap labor, but simply SOME labor. Many more of them show up on time and work hard all day, unlike many of the "natives".

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you look at it, those americans with a decent work ethic and half a brain are getting easier jobs for the same money. The people who can not get those better jobs are who is available for labor work. Many are dumb, self medicated, alcoholic, unambitious, or are prescibed drugs that make them unreliable and fairly useless (not all, but a very large amount). The rest are making a pretty good living by milking the system, dealing dope, and/or working under the table. The Americans who do work hard in landscaping and have half a brain are starting their own business after a few years. So where do you get good reliable labor?

Obviously, there needs to be some system in place to bring in foreign labor, account for them, and send them back. There has always been some immigration of people that gain permanent status here and I think that can continue. But, it has to continue in a controlled manner. Amnesty is not a controlled manner.

Up here, we get a lot of "J1" labor, usually from eastern europe and Ireland. They are students that are allowed to work from May to October. Then they must go home. They have to have a job lined up in order to get here and they go back to complete their education at the end of their time. This works very well, especially in a summer resort area. Something with some built in mechanism should be designed for other types of labor.

It just takes political nerve to come up with it and to support it. Unfortunately, there are many who want the votes of these would be citizens and they badly want to legalize them. This is a huge amount of potential voters for candidates that support social programs, bilingual education, and many other cultural changes in our society.

It will take a near revolt to change this system of amnesty and open borders when the country is about 50/50 liberal and conservative. The conservatives are too worried about losing the little minority vote that they have and the liberals want more voters.

[JT1304]

So in my Market it will force wages up so companies that have been benefiting with using illegal immigrants will know have too compete evenly with legitimate companies.
I see the opposite happening.How many of us got minority owned business grants from the federal goverment?Well,all of these new "minoritys" will qualify as Disadvantaged Minority Business Owners(yes there are fed grants and preferences given to this group).So,what you'll see is the ,presently illegal population ,starting their own landscape/construction/cleaning/etc.,, business' with your money.They'll be given preferences on every state and federal contract,due to the minority factor,and current citizen owned business' will be pushed aside.It's kinda ironic that an industry that lauds how hard illegals work and that they're "needed" will be undone by the very ones they employee.

Not to sound racist, but the hispanics will make us all the minority in less than 10 years at the current rate of "invasion". Plenty of LCOs depend on them and that is a shame. They put out a hell of alot work for the money, but at what cost to everyone else?!? It is time to shut the door!! Come on over, but do it legally!! :hammerhead:

[muddstopper]

So in my Market it will force wages up so companies that have been benefiting with using illegal immigrants will know have too compete evenly with legitimate companies.
I see the opposite happening.How many of us got minority owned business grants from the federal goverment?Well,all of these new "minoritys" will qualify as Disadvantaged Minority Business Owners(yes there are fed grants and preferences given to this group).So,what you'll see is the ,presently illegal population ,starting their own landscape/construction/cleaning/etc.,, business' with your money.They'll be given preferences on every state and federal contract,due to the minority factor,and current citizen owned business' will be pushed aside.It's kinda ironic that an industry that lauds how hard illegals work and that they're "needed" will be undone by the very ones they employee.

Yes it is true the government will grant special previledges to minority groups, One thing to consider if and when you run into a situation where a minority group has been given prfernce over a non minority company in the award of a contract or bid. The presidnt has already been set. Hireing of any person or coampany based on race, sex, or religion is strictly a form of discrimination. Now many of you here may think that the governemnt with all their hireing quota's and such has circumvented this lwa, and in some ways they have, but only to those that are ignorant to the facts. Such government entites such as the EPA, DOD, EEOC, and Even the Fulton county libarary in Atlanta ga, University of Ga Athens and University of Mich have all loss lawsuits where they have enacted minority hireing practices or admissions which give preferencial treatment to minority employees and companies. In Texas and landscapeing do a search for Kuaffman Verses Texas Dept of Transportation. Do a google search for reverse discrimnation and see just how many times the hireing of minorites over any other person based strictly on quotas, even those set forth by the US government, have already been ruled Un-consitutional at State and Federal levels.

[muddstopper]

Whoops, forgot the spell checker.

[Grassmechanic]

I picked up two nice, full service accounts this past spring. The first question out of their mouths was "Does everyone speak english in your company?" When I told them that I am solo, they said "good, you're hired". I asked them if they wanted an estimate first. They said "No, you gave me all the info I needed to know. Do the work and bill me".

[AintNoFun]

this is so true and what really drives me nuts. there was a mexican here about a month ago. no license, no registration, no insurance, illegal and to top it all of he was drunk. well he ran from the cops and crashed his car doing so. and guess fing what. he just won his court case and is now collecting out of some nj uninsured fund. they estimated his bills and rehab to cost the state 700,000. and they are gonna pay. talk about sick!!!!! go ahead and let me be in the same situation and see how many years i serve in jail. this country is becoming disgusting




They get licenses to drive in this state. When they get sick or hurt they go to the emergency room and get treated for free. When they get pulled over, they seldom get locked up. Almost no one is looking for them to be charged as illegal aliens. Often they are stopped and the local police contact the INS. The INS tells them to let them go.

Amnesty exists right now in that everyone turns a blind eye to it. Currently they are excused from almost any minor crime, traffic violation, and access free health care. Amnesty might take some of those priveledges away (I'm not for amnesty).

[Lawnworks]

I don't see how companies run w/out hispanics. How do you do it? Most blacks or whites can't last a month... alot quit after two days.

[Grassmechanic]

I don't see how companies run w/out hispanics. How do you do it? Most blacks or whites can't last a month... alot quit after two days.
I'm a solo. But I've noticed that there are more folks concerned about the people they allow to work on their property. Just an observation.

[Lawnworks]

When you start hiring people, I think your perspective will change.

[Grassmechanic]

When you start hiring people, I think your perspective will change.
I'm done dealing with all the employee issues. I'm staying solo until I'm out of this business.

[AWJ Services]

I don't see how companies run w/out Hispanics. How do you do it? Most blacks or whites can't last a month... alot quit after two days.

The color of a mans skin does not determine his ability too work.
Most Mexicans here are very unskilled and there work shows.
Same as white or black people.
For every one good worker there are 10 or 12 crappy ones.
They are demanding wages that are steadily on the rise.

I had a builder that called and said he needed a CO by Thursday and this was the Friday before.The lot was only partially prepped and needed 4 loads of Topsoil spread and all the drives ,brick columns,pool deck edges etc ,etc done before the 40 pallets of sod was too be put down.
On my bigger jobs I have part time help that I depend on and usually need a few days for scheduling.

I was in a pinch and have a legal guy thats parents were from Mexico (not sure what that makes him) suggest I get a few guys that he knows too help.
I have not worked any Mexicans in close too 3 years and I thought I did not have any choice.

These guys were all supposed too have worked in the Landscaping industry before .
The first day went well.
By wed it was a disaster.
It was pretty funny that after 12 hours on wed too see the only American on the job out there working and the Mexicans taking a break in the shade because it was hot.
My memory seems too be coming back too me.
They told my friend that the work was too hard and they would not come back anymore.
I ended up having too call my Buddy and pull his Remodeling crew off there job too help me finish Thursday.

I learned many years ago that there are some men who will work hard and some men who will not.
If you get a good one pay him and keep him I don't care were he is from.

It does not take a Mexican long too figure out how too work the system.

Now if you want too talk about hard workers you need too hire some guys from Guatemala or Honduras.:hammerhead: