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mcwlandscaping
07-08-2006, 12:46 AM
ive been thinking about this a lot lately while ive been mowing, trying to prove myself right or wrong, but i figured ide post my thoughts about this here.

My thought is that a mower will cut better and cleaner with less straglers on a really lush property over a thin junky one. Here is my reasoning. A mower deck creates vacuum to suck up the grass into the mower blades to be cut and chopped up. Compare this to a regular carpet vacuum. If your vacuum head is close to the carpet, then you don't get all the dirt, would this same principal apply to a lawn? If you have a lush thick lawn, will the vacuum seal itself to the lawn, making it easier to get all the grass where as on a thin lawn you loose vacuum from between grass blades.

Am i on the right track here at all and does my theory make sense? I didn't copy this from anywhere and if someone has already made this connection then, sorry!!

thanks
mike

BSDeality
07-08-2006, 12:50 AM
bingo. my gravely would prove this theory to you. It will cut like a golfcourse green mower on a thick lawn, however toss it a raggedy weed infested sparsely grassed lawn and it will leave stuff all over the place.

mcwlandscaping
07-08-2006, 12:52 AM
i thought so, as i usually leave quite a few stragglers on my POS trailer park lawns, but on wiked nice lush ones it would be almost perfect, comparing it to a vacuum cleaner made me think of it.

mulcahy mowing
07-08-2006, 12:58 AM
You got it, much nicer cut on lush lawns!

Brianslawn
07-08-2006, 01:22 AM
you must be bored with all that rain.

o-so-n-so
07-08-2006, 01:39 AM
Or...on that POS lawn...Does that one or two blades of grass have more room to lay down and stay as the front casters run it over allowing the blades to miss the grass. On the nice thick lawn the grass is crowded and must stay upright allowing the blades to cut the grass more uniform.

Envy Lawn Service
07-08-2006, 02:14 AM
Well boys, that's part of it.
But there is more to it.

Plainly put, a nice turf fescue or bluegrass lawn is easy cutting to be honest.
Like a hot knife through butter, as far as cutting every blade is concerned.

The not so nice lawns have things in them that are tuff!
Fast growing coarse upright stalks...
Wind flimsy stuff...
Stuff that is hard to suck up to cut...

Some mowers are just better equipped to handle widely varying conditions.

Up North
07-08-2006, 02:58 AM
This has been the toughest year so far for me. Very dry conditions all season long and yeah Mike, you are definitely thinking correctly. I found that when I cut thin, dry, stringy turf that I almost have to double mow certain areas or mow very slowly. I think with the high blade tip speed of commercial mowers it causes the thin turf to lay down vs. being sucked up into the deck. I tested a set of Oregon high lifts to see if that made a difference and the only major difference was I ate more dust & dirt and looked like a pig that just got done rolling thru a dirt pen. Went back to the medium lifts after two days of the dirt buffet.

Anyone know a rain dance???? If so let's get high steppin' cause we need it in the worst way. Only lawn I mowed this past week was my own.

Buck

LwnmwrMan22
07-08-2006, 08:57 AM
This has been the toughest year so far for me. Very dry conditions all season long and yeah Mike, you are definitely thinking correctly. I found that when I cut thin, dry, stringy turf that I almost have to double mow certain areas or mow very slowly. I think with the high blade tip speed of commercial mowers it causes the thin turf to lay down vs. being sucked up into the deck. I tested a set of Oregon high lifts to see if that made a difference and the only major difference was I ate more dust & dirt and looked like a pig that just got done rolling thru a dirt pen. Went back to the medium lifts after two days of the dirt buffet.

Anyone know a rain dance???? If so let's get high steppin' cause we need it in the worst way. Only lawn I mowed this past week was my own.

Buck

At least you have time to get over and get some of those walleyes out of Red.

It'll also depend on your mower, whether how much vacuum the deck actually has. But I agree, a thick weed free lawn is much easier to cut, unless you're like me and run your blades about 2 weeks longer than you actually should. :laugh:

It's another reason why I tell my customers that I can't cut their "full of weeds" lawns for the same price as the one next door that doesn't have any weeds. It takes longer, because the mowers aren't designed to cut weeds, they're designed to cut grass.

Up North
07-08-2006, 07:43 PM
At least you have time to get over and get some of those walleyes out of Red.

It'll also depend on your mower, whether how much vacuum the deck actually has. But I agree, a thick weed free lawn is much easier to cut, unless you're like me and run your blades about 2 weeks longer than you actually should. :laugh:

It's another reason why I tell my customers that I can't cut their "full of weeds" lawns for the same price as the one next door that doesn't have any weeds. It takes longer, because the mowers aren't designed to cut weeds, they're designed to cut grass.

I'm waiting for the hard water season...:) I usually fish a few lakes close by in the summer because I'm so busy. We have to hook up on Red this winter. I see Rogers Campground closed up the lodge & access for the summer, weird deal. They claim they'll open back up for the winter but dang...I figured they'd be raking it in now that the walleye is fair game.

Buck

LwnmwrMan22
07-08-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm waiting for the hard water season...:) I usually fish a few lakes close by in the summer because I'm so busy. We have to hook up on Red this winter. I see Rogers Campground closed up the lodge & access for the summer, weird deal. They claim they'll open back up for the winter but dang...I figured they'd be raking it in now that the walleye is fair game.

Buck

I suppose it's something that has to do with there's SO many lakes that people JUST go boating on, it's a HAUL for 2 walleyes, especially for guys around the cities here, plus everyone has to drive their boats past Mille Lacs to get to Red.... I think most would probably just stop there and not drive 2x's the distance, NOR have to pay the access fee.

I think maybe they're smart enough to take that money from the winter access and take some time off, wait until winter????

topsites
07-08-2006, 11:50 PM
I agree with you 100%, I consistently find the thin lawns a royal pita to deal with for the very exact reason the stupid blades don't cut.

I suspect the vacuum may be partly at fault, but what I see more than that (because my blades ride just below the deck's edge anyhow), is the turboforce of wind actually comes out from under the deck and 'bends' the thin blade of grass right as the mower approaches and rides over it, then it stands right back up behind you. The thicker blades have more backbone so they don't bend over backwards LOL funny but true.

It's one reason I've gotten to like lush lawns, not only do you get more cuts / year for the same customer, but it's just so much easier to deal with... And if I HAVE to double-cut the lush lawn, I don't mind it nearly as much.

By far the worst ones are the dirt lots with 1/2 dozen blades sticking around in odd places. So help me I've avoided a few this year by flat out refusing to do them but next year I will quote double the standard price for these types of lots.

Freddy_Kruger
07-08-2006, 11:58 PM
I suspect the vacuum may be partly at fault, but what I see more than that (because my blades ride just below the deck's edge anyhow), is the turboforce of wind actually comes out from under the deck and 'bends' the thin blade of grass right as the mower approaches and rides over it, then it stands right back up behind you.
I think this gets to the matter. Your not creating a vacuum if you're mulching right? If you're bagging ok, but mulching, you're just creating a lot of turbulance.

Its too bad you can't raise your blade higher into the deck then lower the deck to see if this theory is correct. All in all though, the lawn ain't going to turn into a field. I find this "Stragler" issue more prevelent after a dozen lawns or so... maybe a factor is dulling of blades.

Up North
07-09-2006, 03:55 PM
I think this gets to the matter. Your not creating a vacuum if you're mulching right? If you're bagging ok, but mulching, you're just creating a lot of turbulance.

Its too bad you can't raise your blade higher into the deck then lower the deck to see if this theory is correct. All in all though, the lawn ain't going to turn into a field. I find this "Stragler" issue more prevelent after a dozen lawns or so... maybe a factor is dulling of blades.

Not sure if most decks are the same, but on my Snapper Pro I have 4 spacers on each spindle between the underside of the spindle housing & the blade. I could pull off a couple spacers to allow my blades to sit up higher in the deck. Maybe that would create enough vacuum, may have to try that.

Buck

6'7 330
07-09-2006, 05:37 PM
In place of a voodoo, munbo jumbo,let's turn a simple expectation into rocket science...Here is what happens on Lawn's with thin and sparse turf , the blades,no matter the mower will not get as good a lift as on good healthy thick turf.

Now I'm going to go look up the works of Greek philosophers,and find out if they had opinions on if or if not ,turf grass plays a role in the meaning of life.

lawnmaniac883
07-09-2006, 06:44 PM
Well, it makes perfect sense. That explains why I have to cut those thin crap ass lawns lower than the thick lush spring growth loaded lawns that have turf not dirt. Go over one of those deserts fifty times and it will still not look good until you cut it lower.

6'7 330
07-09-2006, 06:55 PM
Well, it makes perfect sense. That explains why I have to cut those thin crap ass lawns lower than the thick lush spring growth loaded lawns that have turf not dirt. Go over one of those deserts fifty times and it will still not look good until you cut it lower.

And you can go over them another 50 times, still leaving stringers that look like they came out a catfish's ass.

South Florida Lawns
08-21-2006, 08:02 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one with these problems.

I mulch and in shady areas with thin grass it looks like total azz. Which makes me mad, now I just lower the blades an inch and cut at the stronger part of the grass blade.

Cutting lower kinda sucks azz because I only have 19hp on my Z so I bog down a lot. My next mower is gonna be a 48" with at least 25hp.

burns60
08-22-2006, 12:19 AM
ive been thinking about this a lot lately while ive been mowing, trying to prove myself right or wrong, but i figured ide post my thoughts about this here.

My thought is that a mower will cut better and cleaner with less straglers on a really lush property over a thin junky one. Here is my reasoning. A mower deck creates vacuum to suck up the grass into the mower blades to be cut and chopped up. Compare this to a regular carpet vacuum. If your vacuum head is close to the carpet, then you don't get all the dirt, would this same principal apply to a lawn? If you have a lush thick lawn, will the vacuum seal itself to the lawn, making it easier to get all the grass where as on a thin lawn you loose vacuum from between grass blades.

Am i on the right track here at all and does my theory make sense? I didn't copy this from anywhere and if someone has already made this connection then, sorry!!

thanks
mike
Without a doubt you are correct about the thick lawns cutting better, we have all witnessed it.

But, I've got another theory for you. Take that thin sorry grass yard, with some weeds and spindley stuff growing on it. Then take a Craftsman, Murray or some home-owner type with blades of only medium sharpness to dull beyond repair and drop those blades down as close as you dare and that sucker will clean that yard like a carpet in one pass. Why? I don't know, but I suspect it has something to do with blade speed, or actually the lack of it. And I take my $8,000 lazer and have to go over it about 3 times to make it look presentable.

Looks like the manufacturers would/could help us out here on this.

Envy Lawn Service
08-22-2006, 12:49 AM
Without a doubt you are correct about the thick lawns cutting better, we have all witnessed it.

But, I've got another theory for you. Take that thin sorry grass yard, with some weeds and spindley stuff growing on it. Then take a Craftsman, Murray or some home-owner type with blades of only medium sharpness to dull beyond repair and drop those blades down as close as you dare and that sucker will clean that yard like a carpet in one pass. Why? I don't know, but I suspect it has something to do with blade speed, or actually the lack of it. And I take my $8,000 lazer and have to go over it about 3 times to make it look presentable.

Looks like the manufacturers would/could help us out here on this.

52" Lazer Z HP???

From the looks of the pics and all the recent talk about it... it seems the UltraCut on the Lazer doesn't suffer that issue like the Trivantage on the Lazer HP does.

burns60
08-22-2006, 02:54 PM
52" Lazer Z HP???

From the looks of the pics and all the recent talk about it... it seems the UltraCut on the Lazer doesn't suffer that issue like the Trivantage on the Lazer HP does.

Mine is a 48 Lazer Z HP. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade it for anything I have seen for this business, it just won't cut the reedy, thin grass. (not very good that is)

Haven't heard much about the Ultracut, but I usually just "travel" in my own little circle, except what I see here at LS.