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View Full Version : Is this normal for a new Toro Walk Behind Spindle


louviljlj
07-10-2006, 10:02 AM
http://lambertlouviere.com/Toro%20Mower.htm

I posted a video of the spindle at my Web site above so you can view how much it is wobbling. Toro says this is normal but seems like it is bent to me. Please let me know if this is normal and why does it wobble like that. Thanks. When you open the page it will take a minute or so for the spindle video to load.

Nosmo
07-10-2006, 10:30 AM
Sure looks like it has a wobble and is bent. I'd pull the shaft and put a straight edge on it to see for myself. If it is not straight I'd show the dealer.

Nosmo

jim dailey
07-10-2006, 10:42 AM
http://lambertlouviere.com/Toro%20Mower.htm

I posted a video of the spindle at my Web site above so you can view how much it is wobbling. Toro says this is normal but seems like it is bent to me. Please let me know if this is normal and why does it wobble like that. Thanks. When you open the page it will take a minute or so for the spindle video to load.


NO, it is NOT normal. Are there any other dealers around that will look at this for you? You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The spindle can be taken apart and it can be determined what exactly is wrong with it. BUT, why should YOU have to worry about such things. Why should YOU have to determine the exact cause. The bearings could be bad or not sitting in the housing correctly. The bolt could be bent. The shafy could be bent. The spindle housing could have a defect in it. There are many reasons that could account for the wobble. BUT, AGAIN, why should YOU have to worry. Get on the horn to TORO, and scream like hell. Have them view a copy of your video. Get ahold of them on this site. Make a big stink out of this matter. Don'T take no for an answer. Let us know how you make out with it.

David Haggerty
07-10-2006, 10:52 AM
I watched the video. I could see the top of the bolt with about a 1/4" of wobble. The pulley had somewhat less.
I'd have to agree with what someone else said before. It's got to be a bent bolt. It couldn't be the bearing/spindle assembly. If bearings were that loose the assembly would rattle when you shook it and probably have ball bearings falling out. The part that holds the bolt might have been made slightly out of round.
What really matters is the quality of cut. Does the blade wobble like that?
Have you tried swaping blade bolts with the other spindle?

As for your original question is this normal? I'd almost have to say it's to be expected. I have a proline 36" It's pretty crude. Lots of stamped and die cut parts instead of machined. You can't really expect the better machines in the Toro line until you hit the "commercial" grade of machines.

JMHO

Dave

ProStreetCamaro
07-10-2006, 02:25 PM
You can't really expect the better machines in the Toro line until you hit the "commercial" grade of machines.


What are you talking about? His machine is a commercial grade machine.


And no it shouldnt wobble like that IMO. That has got to give the machine a shimmy if all 3 of them do that.

louviljlj
07-10-2006, 06:34 PM
I haven't sent Toro the video yet. I just built this web site in the last couple of days but I wanted to get some other opinions first before I persue it. I have not had a good experience with Toro Customer Service so far and wanted to make sure I am not expecting to much Maybe this is the best quality of thier spindles "bent". I don't have another mower to compare it to and have not had time to go to the city to look at another one "50 miles away". I was told that Exmark and Toro use the same spindle as the one I have so if someone out there who knows more about mowers then me can explain what is going on I would appreciate it. I am assuming that the shaft is all one peice and extends out the top where the nut is attached? right.

Scotts' Yard Care
07-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Even a cheapy homeowner's machine is put together better than that! There should be no play or run out in a machine spindle unless it has defective parts somewhere in the system. I hope you can find a better dealer to take care of your warranty problem.

lawnmaniac883
07-10-2006, 08:30 PM
Looks like a chop shop job to me. No spindle should have 4 washers on it...

David Haggerty
07-10-2006, 09:02 PM
What are you talking about? His machine is a commercial grade machine.


Toro has 3 catagories: Homeowner, Professional, and Commercial.

viper00085
07-10-2006, 09:18 PM
well take it to another dealer and let another set of eyes check it out. A bent shaft is pretty easy to find out thru several methods. You can measure the blade tip height and many different points of rotations, you can check it with a straight edge, roll it on a flat surface, put it between 2 live axis and spin it and check it with a dial indicator for run out. but a dead and easy give away is how your blade bolt slides thru it. if its easy, its prolly not bent, if it hard to push the blade bolt thru, it could be bent and binding the bolt as it tries to push thru the center of it. spindles should have no side to side run out, but a little (thousands of a inch) of up and down "endplay" is okay, that keeps your brgs from binding and burning up, just like cranks and cams in an engine. you might have a housing issue, were the brg areas were machine a bit to big and allowing the brgs to move and cause a vib and look wobbly.

lawnmaniac883
07-10-2006, 09:58 PM
Toro has 3 catagories: Homeowner, Professional, and Commercial.


Care to reinforce this claim?

mjohnson1
07-10-2006, 10:09 PM
off topic but kudos on the furniture i love woodworking. what sort of equipment you have?

viper00085
07-10-2006, 10:09 PM
there are4 depts actually. Hoemowner, professional which is pro-line. walk behind comm mowers and ztr's. Commercial is golf course equip and workman utility vehicles and Sitework systems which is dingo.

topsites
07-10-2006, 11:23 PM
Something's wrong, call Toro direct and tell them the whole story.

louviljlj
07-11-2006, 12:24 AM
I have been dealing directly with Toro Customer Service but they are no help at all. They take my complaint and say they will check in to it and I wait but never get a response. When I call back I have to go through the whole story again and they act as though I am wasting thier time and they have better things to do. I mowed grass with it today and the vibration and noise is a nuisance. I just wanted to get some opinions before I call them again tomorrow and make arrangements to bring it in again. I am hoping I don't have to sue them to fix my brand new mower because thats the way it is looking right now.

mowingmachine
07-11-2006, 01:01 AM
It looks like it is just the thru bolt that is slightly bent. Can't tell for sure though from the video. It is not too uncommon for long bolts to be slightly warped especially since a great deal of the hardware comes out of China now. Also if you have a great deal of vibration it is going to take more than a bent bolt in the center of the spindle to cause it. You can run with blades that are quite a bit out of balance and they won't cause the vibration you are talking about. My guess is something else is causing the vibration. Is the engine possible vibrating an excessive amount?

If there is a problem Toro needs to own up to it and take care of it for you. Companies that treat customers like that irritate me.

mowingmachine

louviljlj
07-11-2006, 01:44 AM
Engine is great. I only get the high vibration and and extreme hum when I engange the blades. Are you saying that the threaded bolt above the pulley is not the spindle shaft but just a piece that ins screwed into the top?

6'7 330
07-11-2006, 02:21 AM
It ain't normal to have a spindle vibrating like 1000000000 vibrators belonging to a sex starved old lady.Did you buy the mower from a Toro dealer, if so Sounds like your dealer is not much into support, and totally useless.What is the mower deck on the machine ,SFS or Turbo-Force?

ed2hess
07-11-2006, 06:13 PM
Engine is great. I only get the high vibration and and extreme hum when I engange the blades. Are you saying that the threaded bolt above the pulley is not the spindle shaft but just a piece that ins screwed into the top?
If this spindle is like Snapper and Scag that bolt goes all the way through the spindle. You can test that by removing the nut and see if the blades and bolt drops out. It does look like the bolt is bent, get a new one and rerun. It did look like some goo was coming out of one spindle on underside??? And the belt tension seemed slack ...or maybe I didn't see it correct.

louviljlj
07-11-2006, 10:44 PM
The goo coming out was after I had ran the mower for a couple of hours after recieving it and found the bearings had gone bad. The service center replaced them but would not replace the shaft because they said all Toro shafts are like that. I will try to tighten up on the tension and see if that helps. I will also try to see if the bolt comes out all the way. It is brand new so I didn't want to mess with it too much since it is under warranty but probably be easier for me to do it myself since Toro ain't worth much.

Runner
07-11-2006, 10:54 PM
It's just going to tear the new bearings up the same way. That was due to the vibration and agitation. What is worse yet, is that if allowed to continue run like that, not only will that trash the bearings, but after they go and loosen up, they will start to wear on the inside of the bearing housing. This will cause it to elongate and get whopped out - therefore never seating a bearing properly. Get a new shaft, and watch the bearings now, because now that they have been run like that, they are set up for failure. Just go through J Thomas for the new spindlebolt.

prizeprop
07-11-2006, 11:19 PM
looks like the spindle might be ok, but the bolt or spacers are bent or warped. take the other bolt from the other spindle and use it. if that one is straight and theres no wabble then its the bolt. unless both bolts are bent.

mowingmachine
07-12-2006, 12:20 AM
Your first bearing probably failed because it was bad. It is not uncommon to have early bearing failures with modern junk foreign bearings. To bad US manufacturers don't have much of a choice on bearings these days. Having a warped bolt is not going to damage your bearings. The bolt is totally independent of the shaft that the bearings mate up with. If it was a bent shaft the pulley would have out of round issues as well. From the video it did not look like this was the case. Also if the pulleys were out of round the belt would have serious whip to it. Does your belt whip back and forth and is your belt tensioner going crazy?

mowingmachine

mowingmachine
07-12-2006, 12:26 AM
I just watched the video again and I am convinced it is not the shaft. If you watch the pulley in relationship to the side of the deck it is hardly moving. The movement that it does have is up and down, not side to side. It looks like Toro is using a split steel pulley and with this type of pulley it is common to have a small amount of up and down movement. Also the threaded portion sticking up has to be just a bolt. If that was the shaft diameter that would be an extremely light spindle.

mowingmachine

lawnprosteveo
07-12-2006, 12:44 AM
Looks bent to me...my Toro wb doesnt do that.

louviljlj
07-12-2006, 11:02 PM
It is pretty confusing to me. I have stared at this thing for days trying to figure out what is going on. If it was just how it looked I wouldn't care but the vibration and noise just makes me sure it has a problem. My belt is whipping around pretty good but I will try to tighten it up Friday when I have more time. The video I have on my site is the straightest of all three. The middle spindle is worse "one they put the new bearings in". My friend took the video the 3rd day after I had the mower before I took it in and we just picked a spindle to video. I will pull the bolt out friday and see how the spindle is made. This whole ordeal of trying to figure out if this normal or not for a Toro has made me resent having bought this thing. I can see how a small amount of whop would be acceptable but this just appears to be to much and out of spec. When I am in the process of engaging the blades it gets really noisy and the especially the middle spindle really whops out. After engaging the noise is a high bass "really annoying" even with high noise suppression earphones on as well as vibrating bad.

mowingmachine
07-12-2006, 11:10 PM
I can see why it would be somewhat noisy when engaging the blades that is not to uncommon. It is also common for the belt to whip quite a bit when the blades are engaged. Is the excess noise possibly another bearing getting ready to fail. A bad bearing can be excessively loud.

mowingmachine

Runner
07-13-2006, 12:14 AM
I just watched the video again and I am convinced it is not the shaft. If you watch the pulley in relationship to the side of the deck it is hardly moving.
mowingmachine

I kind of thought the same thing, but then I thought aboutit. It is a trajectory issue. Toward the center of the bolt, the wbble won't be as great as it would toward the end. Also, it may not realy even be bent but between the center of the bolt ad the end.
As far as the bearings going bad, the force of the bent bolt pushing against the spindle wall WILL create stress on the bearings and inevetibly, failure.

ed2hess
07-13-2006, 06:01 PM
The goo coming out was after I had ran the mower for a couple of hours after recieving it and found the bearings had gone bad. The service center replaced them but would not replace the shaft because they said all Toro shafts are like that. I will try to tighten up on the tension and see if that helps. I will also try to see if the bolt comes out all the way. It is brand new so I didn't want to mess with it too much since it is under warranty but probably be easier for me to do it myself since Toro ain't worth much.
It would be simple to take that nut off and the blade then loosen the bolts that hold the spindle to the deck and take it out. Once you got it in hand you can tell a lot about the bearings condition. Then report what the results are and maybe we can help further.

lawnmaniac883
07-13-2006, 06:57 PM
Jeez, just replace the whole spindle assy and call it a day.

mowingmachine
07-14-2006, 12:42 AM
The bolt is independant of the spindle shaft and has no affect on the bearings. The shaft is heavy enough to not be influenced one way or another by the bolt. As long as the shaft is straight there will be no additional loads on the bearings.