PDA

View Full Version : Residential Seal Coating


FIREMAN Q
07-10-2006, 09:55 PM
I'm looking to add another service to my business. I am thinking of seal coating driveways. Nothing to large. I do know that I don't want to buy any machines. I was hoping to be able to do it by the bucket.

I have no experience in this so any tips would be appreciated.

I know that $$ is always a tuff question, but what should I even be charging for this service, by the bucket, sq foot, etc. Also how much on average does everyone get for a driveway. Lets say a 1000sq drive. I believe that I would need about 7 buckets???

thanks in advance for any advice. thanks.

onahill
07-11-2006, 08:45 AM
Get a 55gal drum. The kind the whole top comes off and buy your sealer in bulk.
You don't want to mess around with 5gal pails.
Bulk sealer is much cheaper than buying it in 5gal buckets.

A 1000sq will be around $100 for the average drive.

Coater
07-11-2006, 07:30 PM
FireMann I've got a few water hoses sitting around and some ladders, and I'd like to start putting out fires can you help me?

You know I've got at least 20 K invested in my business I do Professional Seal jobs. If you would see mine next to one done out of buckets its not even close. Whenever I go to a job done UN professionally and charge what I need to after someone has done an amateur job its hard explaining to them the difference and prove to them that my jobs last twice as long

Have you researched the business have you read spec's on material, Do you know that you need to add sand to sealer? My Min is 3 LB per gal of sealer.
Do you know that a sealed driveway is slippery when wet and that the nice old lady you sealed her driveway for mite slip on her way to the mail box!

All I'm saying is if your going to do it do it right! And good luck.

kirk brown
07-12-2006, 10:05 AM
FireMann I've got a few water hoses sitting around and some ladders, and I'd like to start putting out fires can you help me?

You know I've got at least 20 K invested in my business I do Professional Seal jobs. If you would see mine next to one done out of buckets its not even close. Whenever I go to a job done UN professionally and charge what I need to after someone has done an amateur job its hard explaining to them the difference and prove to them that my jobs last twice as long

Have you researched the business have you read spec's on material, Do you know that you need to add sand to sealer? My Min is 3 LB per gal of sealer.
Do you know that a sealed driveway is slippery when wet and that the nice old lady you sealed her driveway for mite slip on her way to the mail box!

All I'm saying is if your going to do it do it right! And good luck.

whatever!!!!
i do some sidejobs with a bucket and roller and there is no way you could say which one is which.
you don`t need 20k to get in business you need 100$ and some ambition

Coater
07-12-2006, 10:15 AM
[

whatever!!!!
i do some sidejobs with a bucket and roller and there is no way you could say which one is which.

I'd bet you 20,000 You could see the the difference!! That just tell me you don't have a clue to what a pro seal job is!! A ROLLER? Come on!
I hope y'all carry lib insurance for that slip and fall

kirk brown
07-12-2006, 02:05 PM
ok let this be a lesson to everyone.
don`t add this service your business unless you going to invest big money, if you don`t "coater" will know how you applied it and it won`t look good.
i guess i never made any profit with this business and my customers must be angry to???????

Coater
07-12-2006, 03:31 PM
i guess i never made any profit with this business and my customers must be angry to???????

O, I'm sure you made a profit. It may have took you all day for something I do in hour or less.

Look, If ya just seen it done right once you would know what I mean in the difference of quality. Ive done seal-coating off and on for over twenty-five years and most of that time I was doing it wrong, But now I know the right way. This is what I'm trying to tell y'all if your going to do seal-coating spend some time and research it. learn the correct way.

You guys in lawn service, it would be like me cutting grass with a push mower, something that would take me all day to do with the right equipment y'all can come in there and get-r-done in thirty minutes

SealAndCoat
07-12-2006, 09:59 PM
yes finally i can make fun of square plastic tanks without somebody talking smack and have Coater to back me up.

I started out with a 55 gallon drum which I then transfered into buckets. a 1000sq feet should be $200, but it depends on your market really.

I don't know, I just started this biz last year, started out the hard way, and this year bought a 700 gallon trailer/tank that cost me over $18,000 by the time i was done paying taxes, custom paint, shipping charges, etc etc

BUT, I now have a PROFESSIONAL, RELIABLE machine that gives me the capacity to seal huge parking lots, and lets me seal and keep sealing driveways insted of wasting time and money running to the plant for another 55 gallons of sealer.

Trust me, I started with drums and buckets cuz i had to, and it was the single biggest waste of time ever. Mixing buckets with an electric drill and paddle just so you can seal, total pain. Plus I trashed my truck transfering the sealer from drum to bucket (how else are you going to lift a 550+ lb drum of sealer?)

I am now probably one of the fastest growing companies in the area. When people see a tank like that, and a quality, professional job, I get tons of leads/jobs off everyone I do if its on a main road. Obviously that speaks for itself. I would still get leads doing it by bucket, but not nearly as many and people would just be like "hmm".

And don't even bother doing it with home store stuff, that stuff is designed to be user friendly for the average homeowner, and you would just be doing something the homeowner would do himself. At least buy your products in bulk from a good distributor or manufacturer.

And a bucket and drum will never give you the ability to mix up extra heavy sandloads with latex-epoxy additives and keep it mixed uniformly during the whole proccess. My jobs still look good from last year, but this years jobs will be even better.

If you are serious about getting into the business, spend the money to do it right. You wouldnt run a professional landscaping company with a 21" Homedepot mower, would you? Would you open up an autobody shop with a cans of spraypaint and a can of bondo?

And don't use a roller, squeegee or brush all the way.

Coater
07-13-2006, 12:08 AM
I seen a homeowner bent over today with a roller:hammerhead: his son had a roller with a stick he looked real happy :cry: I just wanted to laugh. I stoped in and told him next time call me. I'll do it prob for what you paid for the buckets and a lot better :laugh:

Watkinslawnservice
07-16-2006, 01:33 PM
OK heres the deal, I don't really know much about sealcoating and would never doubt that you probably do a better job than someone with a bucket and squee-gee. But before you get all high and mighty about your $18,000 machines that you bought and need to feel good about, please realize that a lot of these people who are asking questions about this line of work are contemplating a sideline to get them by during the slow times in the lawncare industry. For most of them an $18,000 machine would have a hard time paying for its self.
As far as doing a "professional" job with buckets, the company in my area that is considered the most reputable is called Jet Black. They are a national or at least regional franchise that has probably hundreds of franchise owners. A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years by the franchise in our area and I have watched him do it with buckets! That seems to be the way they do it.

Also please try to remember that it seems that the bucket and squee-gee method is what you both started with. Why was it ok for you to start that way but everyone else should start out $18,000 in the hole? Coater when you started did you research the biz? Did you read specs on materials? Did you know that you needed to add sand? Did you know that it was slippery or did you find out the hard way?

As far as the analogy about cutting grass with a push mower goes, if you do a search on this site you will see that there are a lot of very successfull LCOs who do use push mowers and have over 9 crews of employees pushing them. So there is a place for every piece of equipment. All of my accounts could be done with a push mower and would look just as good when finished I just wouldn't get as many done in a day. But then again I would still have the money I paid for my stander.

We appreciate your honesty and insight but please try to do it in a less demeaning way. Not everyone is as smart as you.

sealer1
07-16-2006, 05:20 PM
OK heres the deal, I don't really know much about sealcoating and would never doubt that you probably do a better job than someone with a bucket and squee-gee. But before you get all high and mighty about your $18,000 machines that you bought and need to feel good about, please realize that a lot of these people who are asking questions about this line of work are contemplating a sideline to get them by during the slow times in the lawncare industry. For most of them an $18,000 machine would have a hard time paying for its self.
As far as doing a "professional" job with buckets, the company in my area that is considered the most reputable is called Jet Black. They are a national or at least regional franchise that has probably hundreds of franchise owners. A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years by the franchise in our area and I have watched him do it with buckets! That seems to be the way they do it.

Also please try to remember that it seems that the bucket and squee-gee method is what you both started with. Why was it ok for you to start that way but everyone else should start out $18,000 in the hole? Coater when you started did you research the biz? Did you read specs on materials? Did you know that you needed to add sand? Did you know that it was slippery or did you find out the hard way?

As far as the analogy about cutting grass with a push mower goes, if you do a search on this site you will see that there are a lot of very successfull LCOs who do use push mowers and have over 9 crews of employees pushing them. So there is a place for every piece of equipment. All of my accounts could be done with a push mower and would look just as good when finished I just wouldn't get as many done in a day. But then again I would still have the money I paid for my stander.

We appreciate your honesty and insight but please try to do it in a less demeaning way. Not everyone is as smart as you.

Great answer Dave!!

Coater
07-16-2006, 06:19 PM
As far as doing a "professional" job with buckets, the company in my area that is considered the most reputable is called Jet Black. They are a national or at least regional franchise that has probably hundreds of franchise owners. A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years by the franchise in our area and I have watched him do it with buckets! That seems to be the way they do it.


Jet black is a Joke, Way over priced Franchise The poor people who buy in to them own nothing but a two wheel trailer worth no more then what a trailer cost. They are required to buy all thier material from them and I bet it's at a inflated price

Look this is what I have my money tied up in this my business. Don't think I have no grass to cut I guess i'll go to HD and buy some buckets and make a driveway black! If ya can't make it a cutting grass them sale those 5000.00 mowers and invest like the rest of us. I'll do my best to stop any bucket workers around here.

SealAndCoat
07-17-2006, 02:51 AM
lol sorry if i sounded like a d--- head.

Yeah I know about Jet Black, I even did some market research and ordered a franchise kit from them. All I have to say, is they are !!NUTS!! charging that kind of money to join their franchise and STILL make you seal out buckets. If and when I hopefully start franchising, I would at least give them a decent tank as part of the package. Buckets are fine if you 1) dont care about your back 2) only have a few small driveways to seal but they really limit your market. Try sealing a 60,000 sq foot parking lot with buckets. You would probably need like 200 of them!

It's ok to start off with buckets till you find enough money for a trailer, but I guess my main thing is to demotivate you from purchasing one of those plastic square tank things (if you are considering one). The best thing to do is "test" the market with buckets like I did. If you see that you truly have a niche in the marketplace and feel you might be successful, take the big step, either by finding investors or getting a loan or just saving your $$ till you have enough money for a tank.

For example, a 21" push mower might be great for the college kid on his summer vacation trying to earn some extra money, but eventually you are going to want to expand, get a 52" scag and get more accounts to get more sales and increase your revenue if you are serious about the biz.

You have to have a plan and know what your goals are for your sealing company. Eventually, you will NEED a sealing tank for obvious reasons.

I am not trying to be an a-hole, just telling you from experience that buckets SUCK.

I'll continue this at a later date.

Either way, good luck, and just be careful working on the roadside.

THere is a lot of money required to start up a decent sealing biz, some major equipment purchases, as well as a bunch of those "little things" that just add up.

NPCA
08-04-2006, 08:02 AM
OK heres the deal, I don't really know much about sealcoating and would never doubt that you probably do a better job than someone with a bucket and squee-gee.
As far as doing a "professional" job with buckets, the company in my area that is considered the most reputable is called Jet Black. They are a national or at least regional franchise that has probably hundreds of franchise owners. A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years by the franchise in our area and I have watched him do it with buckets! That seems to be the way they do it.


That says it all "A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years"... unless your friend had a driveway that gets traffic like a 24-hour McDonalds it could be compared to having your grass mowed every 2 days.
A professional sealcoating job on a high traffic lot (say a Blockbuster or Starbucks location) lasts about 3 years on average. So do the math on a driveway :rolleyes:

PPClockworks
08-04-2006, 01:46 PM
That says it all "A friend of mine gets his driveway done every 2 years"... unless your friend had a driveway that gets traffic like a 24-hour McDonalds it could be compared to having your grass mowed every 2 days.
A professional sealcoating job on a high traffic lot (say a Blockbuster or Starbucks location) lasts about 3 years on average. So do the math on a driveway :rolleyes:


I don't know about every 3 years. I do my customers and so do most everyone I know every 2 years.

NPCA
08-04-2006, 02:34 PM
Just because "I do my customers and so do most everyone I know every 2 years" does not make it "normal"...what you choose to do is your business.
We qualified our statement with "A professional sealcoating job" and in Oklahoma with a fairly moderate climate 3 years or usually more for high traffic commercial locations would certainly be normal except maybe in the "panhandle" if/when there is several years of a lot of snow & perhaps sand or salt that would accelerate wear. Even there if there was no damage from sand/salt/or plowing 3+ years should still easily be the norm for commercial.

Our offices are in the more temperate climate of D/FW Texas and though asphalt driveways are somewhat more rare here, when sealed average life is 6-9 years. At 2 they would still be looking like they were done yesterday. That wouldn't be the same in Maine or such "heavy snow" states with all the sand/salt/plowing...rather than looking new they would show the scrapes & stains from plows & salts. But still, sealing every 1 or 2 years on a residential driveway is almost always either a lower quality sealing job, or frequently over-sealing which can cause build up and problems with the asphalt when the sealer gets too thick.

NPCA
08-04-2006, 03:28 PM
Not to intentionally "double post" but the edit time has expired.

Just to clarify:
As happens every few years there are currently a rash of new "miracle" products on the market claiming to be far superior to the type sealcoatings that have been around for many years and which the average contractor would likely be using. Several of the manufacturers of these products have chosen to use photos of "check cracking" and other similar problems that result from over sealing build-up and claim it was caused by "regular" sealcoating materials. In-kind some contractors using these products have copied these photos for their own web sites and use the same misinformation to promote them.

While, as far as we know, these products have yet to affect the Oklahoma, New Mexico, Texas, Kansas etc. "mid-south states" markets in any substantial way, so they probably don't affect you; they are causing grief for "regular" sealcoating contractors in a good size part of the country.

So our educational efforts are certainly not intended to hurt you or the way you do business but rather to assist those contractors who may be bidding against or competing with someone using these products and claiming that contractor's materials will damage the pavement as seen in the photos.
The problems shown in those photos are almost always the result of over-application and have nothing to do with the materials themselves.

In that spirit, our response was intended as entirely educational so that contractors who do encounter these situations will be prepared with accurate answers for their potential customers who may have been misinformed by a "competitor" or something they saw on some other web site.

Some contractors avoid the problem of sealer build-up by choosing to apply the sealer thinner so they can agree with the customer who has been told by others that they should seal every year or every two years or whatever. That is their choice.
However our opinion (and it is just that, an opinion) is that materials should be applied as the manufacturer intended. In that case we only know of one major manufacturer who has included a thinner specification for their product specifically for this type situation. Most manufacturers just have a "standard" application specification for a particular product.
It was our intent to:
(a) allow contractors to avoid inadvertently creating this situation themselves by following their manufacturer's guidelines on a pavement that already has a build-up of sealer or
(b) equip a contractor who encountered or may soon encounter a property owner saying "the other company showed me photos of what your materials will do to my pavement and I don't want that" with proper information to help them deal with the situation and still get the job.

(We will note problems such as check cracking are not always from over application but can also be caused by other application-related factors such as application outside temperature ranges -too hot or too cold, or other factors. Over-application is just by far the most common)

onahill
08-05-2006, 09:57 AM
I don't know about every 3 years. I do my customers and so do most everyone I know every 2 years.

same here..
The claims made by a manufacture are not real life.....

In the real world, sealer(coal-tar) does not last over 2years. I don't care who or what says differently.
The sealer at the fast food place or some other business only lasts 1-2years and that goes for the striping too.
Around here winter is the asphalts worst enemy. Snow removal scrapes off the sealer. Not to seal more often is worse than worrying about over applying (build up!)
What might work down south does not work in snow country.

5 to 6 years between sealing???? ho!!! O.K!!!! :nono:

NPCA
08-05-2006, 12:09 PM
same here..
The claims made by a manufacture are not real life.....
In the real world, sealer(coal-tar) does not last over 2years. I don't care who or what says differently.

There happens to be a parking lot, very high traffic, very crowded, extremely tight turns, main tennant-a dollar store, about a mile from here sealed in 2002 with GemSeal PolyTar (not recommending, just a common brand, saw them do it and that's what the contractor said) We can take a photo if you like. It's dirty as heck because it hasn't rained here in 2 months but the sealer is fine for 4 years of 7-day high traffic.
Many of our members offer a 2 year guarantee on sealcoating so it has to last longer than that. Some in the very heavy "snow" states do only offer 1.

PROCUT1
08-05-2006, 12:35 PM
There happens to be a parking lot, very high traffic, very crowded, extremely tight turns, main tennant-a dollar store, about a mile from here sealed in 2002 with GemSeal PolyTar (not recommending, just a common brand, saw them do it and that's what the contractor said) We can take a photo if you like. It's dirty as heck because it hasn't rained here in 2 months but the sealer is fine for 4 years of 7-day high traffic.
Many of our members offer a 2 year guarantee on sealcoating so it has to last longer than that. Some in the very heavy "snow" states do only offer 1.

I visit your site as well and you and your members have a lot of good useful information but I have to somewhat disagree with you here.

Up here in NY, I have yet to see a coal tar or any sealer last very well past 2 years. Generally commercial is done every two years and residential every 2-4. To make a blanket statement that if it dosent last 5 years that the material or job is inferior is a bunch of crap.

Oil base or Gilsonite barely lasts 6 months.

Our conditions are totally different. YOU DONT HAVE SNOWPLOWS AND SANDERS. Here we do usually around 30 TIMES PER SEASON. Then inbetween the storms and after you have the cars grinding in the sand and salt.

If you can show me a sealer that I can warranty for 4 or 5 years, it would be worth a big finders fee to you because I havent found one yet.

NPCA
08-05-2006, 03:59 PM
OK,
Since we were not sure of the size limits or how to upload pictures here we created a page with a few photos for you to ponder.

We are not saying you must do things one way or another. Part of being in business for yourself is being able to do it "your way".

However some people have an attitude it just isn't possible for sealer to be long-lasting. We have members in northern "snow" areas and we certainly wouldn't "stab them in the back" by having the same basic information on sealer wear in numerous places on our sites as we have stated here.
However it is true that many contractors don't get the longest lasting results possible. This can be for many reasons:

The contractor may be unknowing getting inferior products, regardless of the manufacturer's advertising.
The contractor may simply be uneducated on how to use additives, sand or premium grade sealers to increase performance.
Or, sadly sometimes the contractor may feel customer won't pay for a top-quality job so they do their work similarly to "the competition". Of course this is a myth. If price was the only reason people used to make buying decisions there would be Lexus, Rolex, or even Charmin bath tissue. Everybody would buy the cheapest possible (after all the Charmin is going down the drain just like the cheapest brand).


You can see the photos we put together in response to the above post at This Link (http://www.pavementpro.net/sealerdifference.htm), if it does not open in a new window there is a link at the bottom of the page that will return you here or just use your "back" button.

PS: We never said you could warranty sealcoating 4 or 5 years. BUT you can surely warranty one for no wear showing at one year and 2 years if you want to go to the effort.

onahill
08-05-2006, 04:23 PM
Posting pics is easy ... I'm sure you can figgure it out.

IDEA: Send me some of your harder than nails sealer....
I'll apply it to a 2 year old drive. That has never been sealed and we will count the years.

You must be a salesman??
what brand of sealer do you sell?

your sealer sounds to good to be true!!
If it sounds to good to be true, it's to good to be true............

NPCA
08-05-2006, 05:27 PM
We make it VERY clear we do not endorse or recommend one brand of sealer over another. That is why we purposefully included pictures of jobs done with different competing brands of sealers.
It would be totally against our policies to recommend a particular brand over another. (and we put a disclaimer to that effect with the photos)

If you want to learn how to develop a mix design that will do what you want there are many ways to go about it. But it would start with finding the best products available to you, the best additives to work with those products to achieve the results you want and then learning how to apply it so the entire finished application produced the results you desire.
We help people with the process all the time.

However from the tone of your post it seems your mind is made up. And if so, as another old saying goes "if you think you can you can, if you think you can't you never will".

To achieve better results than you do now you must have the desire, the willingness to work at it (and probably trial and error with several different things before you find what works best for you) and to learn by close observation of everything you try to determine what worked best with what etc. All a lot of work and learning on your part.
However it sounds like you are happy with what you do now. If you are that's fine with us, just keep on doing what you are doing. Live and let live.

The members and sometimes non-members we devote time to working with are those who want to achieve superior results compared to anyone else in their market, and price their services acordingly. Better for the customer, better for the contractor's "bottom line" and better for the sealcoating industry in general.

We have no disagreement or animosity towards you at all. We just disagree with your blanket statement that it can't be done.
It can, but only by the contractor that is willing to expend the effort to make it happen. And we have done about all we can to illustrate the point although you have inpired us to maybe ask our members to submit some similar photos and create a gallery of sorts on one of our sites. Maybe there are more people like you who would find it interesting or useful.

PROCUT1
08-05-2006, 06:24 PM
OK,
Since we were not sure of the size limits or how to upload pictures here we created a page with a few photos for you to ponder.

We are not saying you must do things one way or another. Part of being in business for yourself is being able to do it "your way".

However some people have an attitude it just isn't possible for sealer to be long-lasting. We have members in northern "snow" areas and we certainly wouldn't "stab them in the back" by having the same basic information on sealer wear in numerous places on our sites as we have stated here.
However it is true that many contractors don't get the longest lasting results possible. This can be for many reasons:

The contractor may be unknowing getting inferior products, regardless of the manufacturer's advertising.
The contractor may simply be uneducated on how to use additives, sand or premium grade sealers to increase performance.
Or, sadly sometimes the contractor may feel customer won't pay for a top-quality job so they do their work similarly to "the competition". Of course this is a myth. If price was the only reason people used to make buying decisions there would be Lexus, Rolex, or even Charmin bath tissue. Everybody would buy the cheapest possible (after all the Charmin is going down the drain just like the cheapest brand).


You can see the photos we put together in response to the above post at This Link (http://www.pavementpro.net/sealerdifference.htm), if it does not open in a new window there is a link at the bottom of the page that will return you here or just use your "back" button.

PS: We never said you could warranty sealcoating 4 or 5 years. BUT you can surely warranty one for no wear showing at one year and 2 years if you want to go to the effort.


I agree with most of your above post. Maybe some of the northern sealer jobs do last and are just done more often for cosmetic reasons. Those pics that you posted would be an example where the owner would be calling for sealcoating now.

There IS A HUGE difference in application methods relative to wear and longevity. I find that a true 2 coats sprayed on commercial generally will not show wear after one year. I did a town hall locally last year and this year you could would think it was done yesterday.

I use Tarconite from Neyra with 3lbs sand premixed. I buy in bulk tanker, I add the mfg recommended amount of water, approx 25% and then armorflex additive to spec. All commercial lots get 2 full coats which means spraying one coat, waiting to dry, then spraying second coat. We get great results like that. But still wont get 5 years.

PROCUT1
08-05-2006, 06:30 PM
Most of the contractors use coal tar with no sand or additives mixed with approx 30% water. When you talk about bidding, that gives them a big price advantage to an uneducated customer because just to make one 500 gallon tank of sealer could cost me hundreds of dollars more than them because of the sand and additives.

But the customers learn. They get their lot done by a cheapo and see it worn off the next spring, while the job we did on the next lot over looks beautiful a year later. Then they call and the little extra price is no big deal.

So Don,

I do agree with your points, and I know you know your stuff from reading on the other forum, just try to be a little more sensitive in your explanations here.

ChicagoSeal
08-05-2006, 08:42 PM
Well of course you won't get 5 good years in NY. Those are from Texas, where 5 years in a commercial lot is not hard to obtain using the same mix you are using in New York.

In medium traffic areas I bet you get an average of 2-3 years on your seals, with the best ones looking decent at four years.

NPCA
08-05-2006, 09:01 PM
The photos don't really do the jobs justice. The multi-use lot looks fine; nice & black everywhere with no wear spots. The dollar store is ok on the sealcoating but could definitely use washing and re-striping.
If the multi-use were sealed now it would have to be a one-coat "beauty" job or have excessive sealer and the potential for build up problems. We got a picture of a bank done in 2000 from a member today, perhaps we can add that soon, the lighting isn't great but the lot still looks fine. The dollar store lot could probably take 2 coats with no problems but the owner is still very satisfied so there probably wouldn't be a "sale" more than striping.
Those who have read our sites (and there is info spread out all over both not just in one place) know we go into great detail explaining how some people in the "snow" states like "beauty" coats on their driveways and how to ask a contractor for one without getting excessive build-up. One member in the NE I know personally actually includes a "beauty coat" at 2 years included with the price of his initial sealing (great way to retain a customer).

BTW: This post is from Don, I furnished the photos since I take a digital everywhere and everybody knows it. But the same 3 other members/moderators who have privileges to post under the "NPCA" title on our forums have this login also.
I haven't seen anything that looks "insensitive" to me posted here but then as Foxworthy says "I might be a redneck" :rolleyes: so if there are comments that seem insensitive point them out to us by e-mail or PM if we ever get PM permissions here. Sadly this forum has a very short edit time so we may not be able to change some wording but nobody minds apologizing or re-wording something that offends someone. It's certainly not our intention.

NPCA
08-05-2006, 09:16 PM
I use Tarconite from Neyra with 3lbs sand premixed. I buy in bulk tanker, I add the mfg recommended amount of water, approx 25% and then armorflex additive to spec. All commercial lots get 2 full coats which means spraying one coat, waiting to dry, then spraying second coat. We get great results like that. But still wont get 5 years.
Since I'm on here (Don) I would mention that the head chemist at Neyra has given detailed explanations in their seminars on why Armorflex must always be added before sand.
Before they went closed here I used it a good bit (mid-90s) and they never had pre-mix (they tried it for 6 months but had lots of problems) but I have heard they sell it that way from their NE (CT I think) plant only.
You might want to try switching to straight Tarconite and adding your own water (1st) then Armorflex, then sand and see if you get better results. (3 lbs. is their bare minimum sand spec. by the way, and 2.5% Armorflex)
They have had a lot of management changes there in recent years but they were very emphatic that Armorflex just didn't work right unless it was added before the sand...and I mean emphatic! They spent a ton of time with Greg Houser (former head chemist, now a VP) explaining in great detail with lots of overhead slides the "whys" it was so important to do it that way. :confused: