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View Full Version : 27hp Kohler Starting problem


Grassrootz
07-20-2006, 07:41 PM
I have a 27hp Kohler on my Exmark Lazer and I am having problems getting it started again. Great thing is we finished all our work for the week and i was just finished cutting my yard, when it happened.

All the mower will do is click when i turn the key. Is it more than likely the starter?


If so, Then can you tell me approx the cost for a new one and what brand I should get?

Restrorob
07-20-2006, 07:50 PM
It's more than likely just the solenoid and not the whole starter, Have you checked the battery ?

ed2hess
07-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Rob,
In a situation like this could you take one of these portable battery device with the short leads and apply power directly to the starter terminal. If it started can't you almost assume at least the starter is okay, except the solenoid.

Restrorob
07-20-2006, 08:44 PM
Rob,
In a situation like this could you take one of these portable battery device with the short leads and apply power directly to the starter terminal. If it started can't you almost assume at least the starter is okay, except the solenoid.

I'm assuming this is a solenoid shift starter so yes you could do this on the starter motor lead on the solenoid to see if the starter spins, But it will not engage the drive unless the switch is held in the start position, The click is the plunger pulling the drive to the engage position at the same time pushing another plunger in the bottom of the solenoid to make the two large post on the bottom connect and spin the motor part of the starter.

This plunger in the bottom of the solenoid is what goes bad, The contact areas burn and get pits from use thus causing no contact or power across the large post to spin the starter.

Grassrootz
07-20-2006, 08:50 PM
So, It may just be as simple as relplacing the soleniod :D
Good news!!!

Can i take this in to a regular Auto store and have them test it?

also, how much would you say the replacement soleniod would cost? This is an 2002 model 27hp Kohler with less then 1000 hours on it.

Restrorob
07-20-2006, 09:11 PM
Can i take this in to a regular Auto store and have them test it?

I don't do this because I have the proper test equipment, But all you have to do is take a screw driver and touch the two large post on the solenoid connecting them together and see if it spins. But do it quick and solidly because sparks are going to fly.

A solenoid is in the $90.00 range, There are 3 or 4 different ones so take your whole starter with model and spec. numbers to your dealer so they can identify which one you need.

VegetiveSteam
07-24-2006, 03:32 PM
Make sure you check your ground too. If you have a voltmeter simply put the black lead on the negative post of the battery and the red lead to the case of the starter. Turn the key to the start position and look for any voltage leaking through the case of the starter. You should have none. If you do show voltage coming through the case you have a bad ground.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-24-2006, 04:07 PM
Make sure you check your ground too. If you have a voltmeter simply put the black lead on the negative post of the battery and the red lead to the case of the starter. Turn the key to the start position ....
VegitativeDream is correct, but he did not stress a IMPORTANT point.
He means to _literally_ place meter lead on the battery post and NOT the cable end.
If/when a bad contact exists between battery and clamp, then it would not show up if you place your meter lead on said clamp instead of battery post.

VegetiveSteam
07-24-2006, 04:34 PM
:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: If you have a voltmeter simply put the black lead on the negative post of the battery

Seemed clear to me

Jim@MilkyWay
07-24-2006, 07:53 PM
:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: If you have a voltmeter simply put the black lead on the negative post of the battery

Seemed clear to me
I'll get back to you.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-26-2006, 08:07 PM
:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: If you have a voltmeter simply put the black lead on the negative post of the battery

Seemed clear to me
Some folks know _ALL_ there is to know about a subject.
If anyone falls into that category, then please ignore this post.
For those who might wish to learn something, then study this pic.
Then tell me three things which _could_ lead to, either false information when interpreting reading, or a no start condition.


http://www.goldrushent.com/images/Batt Test.JPG

lawnmaniac883
07-26-2006, 08:41 PM
Lets see, negative cable was repaired instead of replaced this could give you a poor connection there, positive battery cable connection is broken causing bad connection AND ... thats all I can see :confused:

fly-4-fun
07-26-2006, 08:50 PM
It looks like a piece of copper is wrapped around the negative battery post to take up the slack in the replacement connector.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-26-2006, 08:56 PM
Lets see, negative cable was repaired instead of replaced this could give you a poor connection there, positive battery cable connection is broken causing bad connection AND ... thats all I can see :confused:
Pretty good. You picked right up on the broken positive cable clamp. It was broken when I removed the entire cable from a car and installed this _CAR_ battery and cable onto the DR brush mower, about 4 years ago. I figure the connection is due to fail, for the first time pretty soon. I got tired of replacing garden tractor batteries every 2 years.
The negative cable/post connection is actually shimmed using thin, solid copper sheet because I did not want to pull the clamp down too tight. This works very well, in my experience rather than cutting end off.
Did you notice, that is a solid brass cable end? You don't find those often, and they are not as flexible as lead, but they are a lot sturdier, IMHO.

Restrorob
07-26-2006, 09:18 PM
Aw man......Skool let out before I had a chance to guess :cry: :laugh:

Jim@MilkyWay
07-27-2006, 12:26 AM
Aw man......Skool let out before I had a chance to guess :cry: :laugh:
Guess away.
One down, two to go.:drinkup:
I am _most_ impressed :clapping: :clapping: that the maniac got one on the very first post, because I was not sure anyone would even see it.
I don't count the negative cable end. Sorry. If it does not develop a stress crack, it will be there till the cows come home, including the shim.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-27-2006, 01:40 AM
....Some folks know _ALL_ there is to know about a subject.
If anyone falls into that category, then please ignore this post....
You Have _Got_ To Be Kidding!
Don't tell me that the rocket scientist that threw up a flag in the first place is not going to score potential problem #2 and tell everybody why I posted this thread in the first place!
Actually it should rate potential problem #1, as it is a most common mistake. I have given MANY hints already!

Restrorob
07-27-2006, 07:31 AM
Guess away.
One down, two to go.:drinkup:
I am _most_ impressed :clapping: :clapping: that the maniac got one on the very first post, because I was not sure anyone would even see it.
I don't count the negative cable end. Sorry. If it does not develop a stress crack, it will be there till the cows come home, including the shim.


Well Jimbo, First thing I seen is it looks like your testing battery voltage on the connectors. The second thing is if you put the leads on the post do you get the same reading ? If so I'd say your battery is running a little on the weak side, Most 12 volt batteries will hold 12.40 to 12.50 volts.

Lastly, "The cows are on the way home" I see the screws on the neg. cable end bottomed out and the hold down strap flat, That is a potential weak connection. I have seen smaller mower cables put in these type connectors and tighten but after a short period of time the copper weakens and causes a bad connection. Turn the hold down strap over with the bumps down and that will insure a good tight connection.

Oh, maniac has come a long way since joining, He follows me around reading my post. :laugh:

Jim@MilkyWay
07-27-2006, 09:46 AM
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
_WAY TO GO ROBBI_ !!
You nailed 'em all and then some.
I did not count the conductor-to-connector junction on the negative cable because the wire end is wrapped with the same copper sheet I mentioned earlier. You just can't see it as it is under the clamp.
I apologize if it is more obvious than I thought, when it comes to placing test leads on clamp instead of battery post.

Jman
07-27-2006, 10:37 AM
Question, Is the key turned to the start position?? Is the engine spinning over with this voltage?? Next, what is going to happen if the throttle/choke cable rubs thru the positive battery cable?? I see the negative post to terminal appears to have a good connection (post still looks bright) but the positive has the duller black look that they get when there has been cable connection problems building up slight heat.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-27-2006, 12:48 PM
Question, Is the key turned to the start position?? Is the engine spinning over with this voltage??....
No; engine is not spinning, so battery is not under load. You and RestroRob are both correct in assessing voltage; 12.1 ain't quite enough. I won't take up space reposting, but in a prior post I mentioned that with this set-up, it is tough to tell when batt is "low" because, with such a tiny starter/engine as this, a car battery with such a large energy reserve, does not have much demand placed on it when spinning.
....Next, what is going to happen if the throttle/choke cable rubs thru the positive battery cable??....
Probably a dern ATOMIC explosion!:laugh: :laugh:

Actually, if you look carefully, you can tell they are not in contact.
....I see the negative post to terminal appears to have a good connection (post still looks bright) but the positive has the duller black look that they get when there has been cable connection problems building up slight heat.
Well, Thanks to MattyMax and the pics that HE posted of _HIS_ mower, Max You sit down and be quiet, :laugh: :laugh: then I took a light, brass brush to the brass connector so it looked clean. In my experience, the connection to post can not fail if it never gets loose in the first place.

Jman
07-27-2006, 01:30 PM
In my experience I have seen tight battery posts with corrosion in between the terminal and post. May just have been due to Iowa winters, with salt on the roads, but after working on all types of vehicles and trucks for 10 years professionally, I know even tight connections can develop problems.

VegetiveSteam
07-27-2006, 02:16 PM
Ok I'll jump back in here even though the post with the pics said I didn't need to. I did see potential problems in the pic but what I saw basically told me nothing. Even though it looks like this was put together by Larry, Darrel and Darrel doesn't tell me that it doesn't work. The voltage in the battery is a bit low but should be plenty to crank the engine. What is the voltage at the battery side of the solenoid? Is it the same as what is right at the battery? What does it drop to when you try to crank the engine? While cranking is the voltage the same on the battery side of solenoid as the starter side of the solenoid? If not, what is the voltage coming down the wire from the keyswitch to excite the solenoid? These tests and about 15 minutes of diagnosis can tell you what if anything needs replaced.

Jim@MilkyWay
07-28-2006, 03:17 PM
I have a 27hp Kohler on my Exmark Lazer and I am having problems getting it started again...
Uhm,,
Did you get your mower mowing yet?
I apologize, as I seem to have played a role in the high-jacking of your thread and you have not told us what the problem turned out to be.