Taking off String Trimmer Guard

[cahermit]

I just bought an echo 261-T, and the dealer told me that if you take off the guard, it increases the engine operating temp by 20 degrees for every inch of line you have out past the cutter length. Does this statement have any validity?

[ed2hess]

We run them without guards for many years all models including the 3 new 261T untis and no problems. I would guess they will run hotter because you pull more cord but on the other hand these gearboxes on the 261T are massive. I think you will be fine, just keep the ports clean and use echo oil.

[dutch1]

I wouldn't say for sure, but I don't think some manufacturers will warranty a unit operated without something to control line length. Not only will the unit operate at a higher temperature but unnecessary strain is applied to the clutch/drum assembly leading to premature failure.

Check with your dealer if you have a question about warranty.

Dutch

[MowerMedic77]

Removing the guard is the cause of more problems with weedys then most people think:confused: It allows the operator to run the line longer then the manufacture recommends and will void most drive shaft warranties when they strip, it puts excess strain on the gear head and clutch and clutch drum creating faster wear on the shoes. It also makes the engine run at slower rpms and intern does not allow you to burn the 2 cycle properly and you get carbon build up in the port. I know you will get lots of different opinions on this one but from a mechanics POV , removing the guard gives me lots of extra work everyday. :drinkup:

[ed2hess]

I got a fair amount of field test experience on guard removal. It does cause the clutches to wear more and they have to be replaced about every 9 months. The new adjustable carb and new gear head allows tuning the engine so it does not bog like the old 260. Since it runs at full speed the cooling is better and clutch wear went down on the 261T. The ports need to be cleaned about every 6 months. I have never had a flex or solid shaft shaft fail. The gearbox on Echo is seems overdesigned and can easily take the load, and the new one is even bigger. I have never had a ring/cyclinder problem on an Echo. I don't expect them to give me warranty if I take the guard off! My experience has been similiar on certain Stihl and Shindawa model. If you are not doing high volume maintenance leave the guard on it is safer and it likely increase the life of everything.

[blakeg314]

just take it off, it gets in the way!

[AAELI]

I got a fair amount of field test experience on guard removal. It does cause the clutches to wear more and they have to be replaced about every 9 months. The new adjustable carb and new gear head allows tuning the engine so it does not bog like the old 260. Since it runs at full speed the cooling is better and clutch wear went down on the 261T. The ports need to be cleaned about every 6 months. I have never had a flex or solid shaft shaft fail. The gearbox on Echo is seems overdesigned and can easily take the load, and the new one is even bigger. I have never had a ring/cyclinder problem on an Echo. I don't expect them to give me warranty if I take the guard off! My experience has been similiar on certain Stihl and Shindawa model. If you are not doing high volume maintenance leave the guard on it is safer and it likely increase the life of everything.

If you run longer line at a smaller diameter you can offset any slowdown and resulting premature clutch wear. Running the handhelds (trimmer-brushcutters) at less than 60% of their max rpm under load will cause the premature wear problems.

Most of our brushcutters, Shindaiwa B450, Robin NB411 and Maruyama BC4200H models run without the guard and only have problems when the load is greater than it should be. I usually step down in diameter in cutting line if I increase the length. That always allows for a higher rpm with the result of better cooling, less wear and tear.

The gearcases last almost forever with proper greasing intervals. Best is 25 hours, half the time recommended by the manufacturer.

Adjusting the carb to run leaner and at a higher rpm will reduce the lifespan due to higher heat due to leaner air/fuel ratio. Too high of heat generated by the slow under load rpm will cause some alum. material transfer from the piston to the cyl. walls. No fun... Even increasing the oil content in your mix will not help this problem. The intake side of the piston will be cherry while the exhaust will be melted.

I just replaced a clutch drum bearing this morning along with a clutch shoe assembly on a Robin 411 where the owner had 12" of .155" dia. line sticking out of each side of an aluminum fixed line head. He knows now the pain and cost for the joy of cutting with LARGE dia. line that is too long.

This has been fun! Just closed up shop and Gotta go home and mow.:waving:

[ProMo]

I havent used a guard on a trimmer in 25 years and have not had any of my trimmers fail to last at least 5 years.However the old orange echos used to last 10 years.

[TURF DOCTOR]

Trash the guards they get in the way, we have had two seasons on the clutch if you cut a lot of grass it helps.

[oldgreygox33]

If those of you who have taken the guards off of your line trimmers are letting your employees use these machines and they get hurt, your are opening yourself up for a law suit. I also tend to agree with with
MowerMedic77 over all of the other quotes here in.
Excellent statement MowerMedic77

[AAELI]

I havent used a guard on a trimmer in 25 years and have not had any of my trimmers fail to last at least 5 years.However the old orange echos used to last 10 years.

I have a Shindaiwa RM-35 bought in late 70's in Okinawa. Works fine even though it is getting long in the tooth. Kinda like me. Used as a brushcutter mostly although it swings a mean trimmer line.

[MowerMedic77]

Like I said you will get lots of different opinions, not much logic but lots of opinions, I get customers who ask me to remove that guard on almost every weedy I sell I politely tell them after it leaves my shop you can do as you please but I will not sell a unit without a safety in place( now to pour gas on the fire:angry:) No one ever asks me to removed the guard from a stick edger! Does that not get in the way? If you were to use the same logic when you buy a new vehicle do you have the techs remove the seat belts? I mean think of the time it save not having to buckle and unbuckle evertime you get in and out of your truck and them pesky straps would not be in the way:hammerhead: Ok now that the gates are open let the flood begin LOL:)

[Jim@MilkyWay]

If those of you who have taken the guards off of your line trimmers are letting your employees use these machines and they get hurt, your are opening yourself up for a law suit. I also tend to agree with with
MowerMedic77 over all of the other quotes here in.
Excellent statement MowerMedic77
Same for me. I removed the cut-off blade from guard so string would be an inch longer, but complete removal of guard is not something I would ever allow.

[SLR]

i too removed the guard..but now that i bought a new wacker i now conclude i get it done it exactly the same amount of time..why you ask? on the guardless 'tap'n'go system i would sometimes,actually alot,bump the tapper and to much string would come out,with no cutter i would have to waste string by taking some off on a sharp object to get the rpm's up again.Now i just took my grinder to the blade,shaved off an inch an a half and resharpened it..problem more than solved..plus guardless..my shoes seemed to become shredded for some mysterious reason,that and my toes don't hurt when i'm finished with a job anymore,go figure.

[AAELI]

Please remove the guard and not only use longer cutting line but a larger diameter. I really can use the extra work replacing wornout clutches, clutch drums, drum bearings, worn mainshaft splines, crankshaft oil seals, pistons and cylinders. It really helps keep the profits rolling in.

So please keep on doing the foolish things you are doing!:clapping: :clapping:

[SLR]

no waste of time clutches/shatf splines/seals/pistons etc in my eight years with extreme hard use on my $120 weed"r AAELI !..just not into all that extra bagge they throw in there for another 2oo or so bucks when a hundred dollar wacker will suffice just fine.But running guardless now seems a very nutty thing to do now that i have'nt done so in so long.

[AAELI]

no waste of time clutches/shatf splines/seals/pistons etc in my eight years with extreme hard use on my $120 weed"r AAELI !..just not into all that extra bagge they throw in there for another 2oo or so bucks when a hundred dollar wacker will suffice just fine.But running guardless now seems a very nutty thing to do now that i have'nt done so in so long.

The disposables get disposed of out here pretty quick. The guys around here use 40cc+ engines and turn .155" cutting line in fixed line heads. The big names are Robin, Maruyama, Shindaiwa and Stihl. No tap and go aparts used on these big guns. The crews will often wack down 3-4' tall growth called swordgrass with the big line instead of switching to a blade. It does put more than just a little strain on the engines when they lengthen the line. I have made a pretty pennie off of the repair business over the last 24+ years.

What you guys use over across the water would make even the girls over here laugh. It is hard to sell something less than 35cc. Trimmers just don't move unless you give them away and then the guy wants a handlebar kit.

Even my daughter uses a Maruyama with a 31cc Honda mini-four stroker and brushcutter handlebars. She cuts like nobody's business.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

....What you guys use over across the water would make even the girls over here laugh....
Hey now,
Watch it buster!:mad:

[SLR]

The guys around here use 40cc+ engines and turn .155" cutting line in fixed line heads. The big names are Robin, Maruyama, Shindaiwa and Stihl.
-
thats very fine an all,but,see i have two holes for the string on my wackr,and supposed to be used as such,but instead i modified my dual stage spool and made it into a one liner,then drilled a slightly bigger hole where it says to fit the .080 string,and made it so i can now put .090 string in it,so i can now chose between either using .080/.090 options.I find with the 31cc engine it performs nicely,but i have to admit,i'd put up with the weight if they put out a 60-80cc engine in a heartbeat!

Has anyone ever tried using guitar string or a cable-type wire instead of string,i'm flirting with the idea,as i'm sure a smaller,stronger diameter wire would last longer and cut better than any thing round grass string.

[AAELI]

Hey now,
Watch it buster!:mad:

I understand your pain. It is no fun to be compared to a young lady wacking weeds with the best! For guys , it seems to be a macho thing over here to carry the weight and use the biggest and baddest machine.

Has anyone ever tried using guitar string or a cable-type wire instead of string,i'm flirting with the idea,as i'm sure a smaller,stronger diameter wire would last longer and cut better than any thing round grass string.

It has been tried with dire results. Please reconsider your brand of foolishness. The wire separates and has a tendency to impale the user or anyone nearby.

Stihl has a large clearing saw that would fit your needs when equipped with a line head. I believe it was 56cc or 57cc. Big enough to do the job.

There was another brushcutter back in the mid-'80s with a lawnmower engine and handlebars but I just can't remember the name. I thought it would need training wheels to operate. I saw a few at a DRMO auction yard around that time.

It is getting late. Gotta get a customer's Walker out of the shop in the morning. :waving:

[Sandgropher]

People around here rivet bits of tin on there guard for more protection, on the left hand side looking down, you get less things hitting you and less chance of rocks and things hitting windows., less face it the average guard is not very big ,it needs to be bigger, people that want more line out move the guard up a few inches up the shalf.

[TLS]

The guards don't protect you one bit. Well, maybe a little, but the big ouchers originate nowhere near a guard.

That being said, I've run them on and off. I prefer on.

Why?

Line length and sharpness.

I freshly cut line is SHARP and cuts grass w/o fraying it. Frayed line frays grass.

Get one to many accidental bumps and you have WAY too much line out. Not so with the guard on.

My 1984 Green Machine 3000SS I ran w/o the guard. It lasted until 1992 (headgasket) still have it in the garage.

My 1992 Echo SRM-2501 is run with the guard. It is still in use as my MAIN unit today. All I've ever done to it is replaced spark plugs and decarboned the muffler.

On the Echo, I flipped the knife to the outside to gain another inch or so line.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

....Has anyone ever tried using guitar string or a cable-type wire instead of string,i'm flirting with the idea,as i'm sure a smaller,stronger diameter wire would last longer and cut better than any thing round grass string.
....Please reconsider your brand of foolishness. The wire separates and has a tendency to impale the user or anyone nearby....
Boy-Oh-Boy
That stuff could/would stick up in anything if it happened to hit at the wrong place, turned just the right way and at the speed it travels at WOT.
NOT a good idea!

[AAELI]

QUOTE=TLS]The guards don't protect you one bit. Well, maybe a little, but the big ouchers originate nowhere near a guard.[/QUOTE]

I think you have been hit once too often!

Line length and sharpness.

I freshly cut line is SHARP and cuts grass w/o fraying it. Frayed line frays grass.

Sharp line dulls with the first abrasive cut it makes. Those nice edges are rounded off as fast as the line head spins. Poor quality line frays, for that matter almost all line frays sooner or later. The better the line the longer it lasts.

My 1984 Green Machine 3000SS I ran w/o the guard. It lasted until 1992 (headgasket) still have it in the garage.
My 1992 Echo SRM-2501 is run with the guard. It is still in use as my MAIN unit today. All I've ever done to it is replaced spark plugs and decarboned the muffler.
On the Echo, I flipped the knife to the outside to gain another inch or so line.[/QUOTE]

I have trimmers that have gone 1500 - 1700 hours a year for 3 years before getting retired. These are the ones used commercially. Most of our guys out here use these big guns daily almost as much as they do lawnmowers. Our terrain is rough on lawnmowers. Skilled operators cut entire 1/4 -1/2 acre zoysia yards at fractions of an inch with cutting line only. I would think that tops your once a day 3-5 min per use on a yard.

Good job keeping those trimmers running that long.

[SLR]

It has been tried with dire results. Please reconsider your brand of foolishness. The wire separates and has a tendency to impale the user or anyone nearby.
--

Trust me i tried to edit my post to read "with the aid of heavy clothing and a full face shield..but seems the moderators here only give a certain window of editing time,to edit a post..grr,as i hated to have my post out here if someone was to actually do it..i wish the edit time were for at least a day!

[jkingrph]

Would never remove, disable safety devices, although I used to do that myself.. Changed my mind after maintance worker mowing at large school threw a rock through side window of my camper cover on pickup. School district did not want to pay and wanted me to have my insurance cover it only picking up deductible. I insisted it was not my insurance companies fault
and did get the school to pick up the entire bill. Have since made sure all safety devices on my equipment meets mfr standards

[cahermit]

Well thanks for the responses. So (as I assumed) I will leave my guard on. I still don't get how it saves time or effort to have an extra inch of line out there... Maybe I'm missing something.
As far as the guard 'guarding' from flying debris, I have found that the majority of debris that hits me goes unnoticed, unless it strikes my face (although I always wear sun/safety glasses). And I have noticed that the objects that make it to the height of my face did not come directly from the ground, but were slung up to a wall and flew back to hit me. Mostly large bark and pea gravel:cry:

So leave the guard on, run the largest, highest quality twine that the machine is made for, and invest in a damned face shield asap!!!

Mechanics; Thx for the advice!
Other LCOs; Thx for the opinions!
:clapping:

[cahermit]

oh, and liability insurance!

[dcondon]

Well thanks for the responses. So (as I assumed) I will leave my guard on. I still don't get how it saves time or effort to have an extra inch of line out there... Maybe I'm missing something.
As far as the guard 'guarding' from flying debris, I have found that the majority of debris that hits me goes unnoticed, unless it strikes my face (although I always wear sun/safety glasses). And I have noticed that the objects that make it to the height of my face did not come directly from the ground, but were slung up to a wall and flew back to hit me. Mostly large bark and pea gravel:cry:

So leave the guard on, run the largest, highest quality twine that the machine is made for, and invest in a damned face shield asap!!!

Mechanics; Thx for the advice!
Other LCOs; Thx for the opinions!
:clapping:

your on the right track but just learn how to hold and angle your trimmer and you will get very little on you. YES, we always run with guards on.

[lawnmaniac883]

I am with TLS on the whole line sharpness thing. I run rotary twisted line and it will not fray at all but will wear down all it takes is a bump and I am back into action with nice fresh stuff. Wire on a trimmer . . . oh my god.

[ChadsLawn]

I always took the guard off.. So did my Dad when he was in the business. But a couple weeks ago I was talking to a fellow LCO. I noticed all his Stihl trimmers had brand new looking guards on them. But the trimmers then selves were dirty. I asked if he just put the guards on. He told me he had to. He then said OSHA Stopped while he was mowing and gave him a warning that the guards had to be on, no matter who was trimming.
So when I got home, I dug out my guard and put it on. But instead of mounting it to the 4 holes, I mounted it to the top 2 which gave me about 1 more inch of string. I dont mind it now. It keeps my legs cleaner and they dont get beat up as much.

Oh the guy also said, that they werent that bad after all.
Chad

[lawnmaniac883]

Yup, thats a good reason to leave them on. They also channel the clippings into a single path instead of all over the place.