Is my Kohler Siezed??? Need Help!

[stonedawg]

Kohler may be siezed!!
Posted yesterday about my mower just quitting on me. After working on it all afternoon yesterday, I replaced a blown fuse, checked all electrical and still, when I turn the key, the flywheel moves about a 1/2 inch. The starter is engaging. Could my motor be siezed up? I find it hard to believe because it only has 300 hrs on it and it quit on me with no warning whatsoever while I was mowing. No noise, it was like the saftey cutoff cut the engine off. It made no noise, it just shut off. If it siezed, wouldn't their be some smoke, banging, or something? Sorry this is so long? Thanks so much for your opinions!!
Edit/Delete Message

[Jman]

Can you roll the engine over by hand? If not, pull the spark plugs out and try it again. If you can't roll it over by hand something is siezed, either in the engine, or the clutch or something driven by the engine.

[stonedawg]

Can turn it by hand with plugs out. Very tuff to do. It quit in mid mow, could the pressure from the pumps and blade engaged at time of failure be cause too much pressure to start??

[Restrorob]

Remove all the belts off the crankshaft then check again, I didn't see if this unit has electric pto or not but I have seen clutch bearings seize and shut a unit down.
Shutting down in mid mow I believe would have nothing to do with your problem now.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Can turn it by hand with plugs out. Very tuff to do....How tough is it?
When you say 'It's tough to do" can you hear or feel anything, from simply spinning the engine by hand, that would make you think metal is rubbing hard against metal inside engine? Because at normal engine operating speed, this would cause high friction and subsequent seizing due to heat build up, which can be _very_ rapid.
I think engine seizing is _always_ caused by excessive heat, regardless of the cause.
Were YOU actually the operator when engine shut down? If you have sufficient experience with this particular machine then I should think that you would have noticed, when you first lost power, if engine stopped spinning _very_ quickly compared to what you observe as "normal" for this engine. If you did not notice this, then engine probably was not seizing.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

.... I think engine seizing is _always_ caused by excessive heat, regardless of the cause....
Uhmm,,
that is, unless something breaks, of course.

[Splicer]

Engine seizing is caused by lack of lubrication...or as has been stated previously...if something breaks...usually caused by lack of lubrication...If the motor turns over by hand and 'feels' rough (which IS different from stiff) you have a rebuild on your hands...if it turns freely with the plugs removed but very hard to impossible with the plugs installed chances are the valve timing slipped...

[khouse]

I just repaired a command 27 where the magnets under the flywheel flew off. It chewed up the stator and was grinding a lot. I bet that it could have happened to you.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

....I think engine seizing is _always_ caused by excessive heat, regardless of the cause.Uhmm,,
that is, unless something breaks, of course.
....Engine seizing is caused by lack of lubrication...
Have you ever watched those TV infomercials where they run their "friction reducing" product, like Dura Lube Advanced Formula in the engine, then drain out all the oil and run the engine for half an hour with no "lubrication" in it?
The surface coating left behind by those products still lubricate the engine. Once the coating wears away, then friction again rears it's ugly head and your engine, if operated after that point will toast it'self in short order. Toast is quite literal.
If you loose lubricant or coolant, or if you, just for giggles tried to run your engine in a pure oxygen atmosphere, and if you had temp sensors attached to any engine in the right place to monitor cylinder-wall temp, then you will find, I believe without exception, that the temp would ramp up _QUICKLY_ just before engine seized. The spike/max temp probably would occur just after it seized, due to thermal inertia. Soo,, regardless of why engine heats, it will, if not controlled lock 'er up.

[thecrankshaft]

So what would be the exception to seizing if the end cause wasn't heat?

[FIXDISS]

Can turn it by hand with plugs out. Very tuff to do. It quit in mid mow, could the pressure from the pumps and blade engaged at time of failure be cause too much pressure to start??
When you took the belts off the crankshaft pulleys and still had plugs removed would it spin over with the starter or turn freely by hand ?

[lawnspecialties]

Remove all the belts off the crankshaft then check again, I didn't see if this unit has electric pto or not but I have seen clutch bearings seize and shut a unit down.
Shutting down in mid mow I believe would have nothing to do with your problem now.

This is my bet. Had a SuperZ shut down while mowing. That dreaded Hustler gear box locked up. Another time, the electric PTO went out. After the machine cooled down, it wouldn't turn over. The bearings seized up when it cooled off.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

So what would be the exception to seizing if the end cause wasn't heat?If the coating _NEVER_ failed, then the engine would never overheat, even with no liquid lube circulating in engine, and frictionless operation would allow engine to simply purr along indefinitely. In other words, it would not seize.
In case you can not tell, I am a fan of oil treatments.
Speaking of which, I sent off for, and just by coincidence today, received a free sample can of Eureka Fluid Film to try out. Do any of you guys know if there is a version to use as an oil additive. I did not have a chance to check it out on the www as yet.
Check out the same offer I used to get mine. It is the 2nd thread from top of this forum. I hope it is OK to send the invitation to all.

[Dano50]

I'm sorry but we don't have an oil additive at this time, and it's perfectly fine to mention our offer to all LawnSite members who haven't tried Fluid Film (http://www.lawnsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=156) and live in the Continental United States.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

I'm sorry but we don't have an oil additive at this time, ...Thanks for response. Will look forward to that addition to product line.

[khouse]

Stonedog - what did you find out?