getting started mininmal experience

[Property Plus]

Hi everyone im new to the site and new to the business
im 23 years old and willing to work hard for my business

i have minimal landscape experience basically only doing household stuff, maintaining our property etc..

i want to start next spring by mowing/maintaining, and doing weed and feed.
i want to get a tank on my truck to do spraying and as well do plowing in the winter.

what sort of things do i need to do to get started.
i know with having limited experience in the field i will be limited to how much stuff i can provide for my customers. but like i said im willing to work hard and learn as much as i can from the pros on this site and reading alot of books on how to's.

i would like to be able to do full blown landscape design and provide everything to my customers with firtilizationg and the weed and feed, to maintenance etc..

i dont know how to use heavy equiptment like a skid steer to digging beds will be hard for me to start off doing..

if anyone has any info please shoot it my way.

thanks in advance!

[1MajorTom]

My opinion is you start small. No way you are going to be able to provide all those services in the beginning.
Stick with mowing your first couple of years, and plowing in the winter.
Your biggest hurdle in the beginning will be finding customers. As your customer list grows, then slowly you can begin to offer other services such as fertilizing. I am not sure about Canada, but here in the U.S. you need to be licensed to apply. You can't expect to fertilize without some general knowledge of grass types, weeds, and pesticides.
Start small, make sure you are truly interested in this industry, before you dive in head first.

[MMLawn]

My opinion is you start small. No way you are going to be able to provide all those services in the beginning.
Stick with mowing your first couple of years, and plowing in the winter.
Your biggest hurdle in the beginning will be finding customers. As your customer list grows, then slowly you can begin to offer other services such as fertilizing. I am not sure about Canada, but here in the U.S. you need to be licensed to apply. You can't expect to fertilize without some general knowledge of grass types, weeds, and pesticides.
Start small, make sure you are truly interested in this industry, before you dive in head first.


VERY Good and VERY TRUE Advise......start small, esp since you really don't know how to do all of those ting yet, not to mention some of them such as the spraying and LS design will require aditional governmental licensing. Start just basic lawn maintenance (cutting grass) and build as you learn.

OR, better yet work for someone else first to learn the business.

Good luck......as we all started somewhere and started small I assure you. My first year, many, many years ago I remember making $2500.00 for the year......the WHOLE YEAR! My business has been blessed and today I have crews that do that and more every day.

[GardnerLandscaping]

I found full service a good way to start because you have the extra time to learn and gives you extra work until you have a full schedule. Just be honest with your customers so they know what to expect.

Spend time with the books. Knowledge can help prevent learning the hard way by experience.

I use a small 4-cycle Honda tiller to dig up the beds and garden rack to spread it back evenly. If the tiller is taking too much time to dig deep enough, I'll go back with a shovel to dig the holes.

Tilling also helps break up the dirt enough to mix it easily with a soil amendment.

Sometimes you don't need a soil amendment if you have a hardy plant and the dirt is already well mulched.

I'm sure you'd want to expand your arsenal for more specific digging equipment. I'm sure other people have better advice on how to work the soil for installation. Of course, the books will probably give you better advice.

[GardnerLandscaping]

Always call before you dig to have underground utilities marked, even if it is an area where you wouldn't think anything is. People are known to run utilities in weird places, even in backyards.

[1MajorTom]

I found full service a good way to start because you have the extra time to learn and gives you extra work until you have a full schedule. Just be honest with your customers so they know what to expect.


Offering full service is for the seasoned pro. Offering to sell services that you know nothing about is a good way to get yourself in HOT water. :dizzy:

[J&R Landscaping]

I found full service a good way to start because you have the extra time to learn and gives you extra work until you have a full schedule. Just be honest with your customers so they know what to expect.

When you have this "extra time" you speak of, do you work this time for free or do you charge the customer while you learn?

I don't know about your customers and your business plan, but I know that my customers would not want to be used as gunea pigs for my first time trying something extreme.

If you want to try new stuff that is larger and more complex, I would either do it on my own property, or work for someone to gain knowledge and techniques for doing it the correct way. (This would apply to retaining walls, walkways etc) JMO

[mcwlandscaping]

good advise above, also,
read this book: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=155103

[Property Plus]

thanks guys!

i know i will have to start off very small. the reason i dont want to work for someone else is that the pay wont be enough. 8-10 bucks an hour wont really cut it.

right now im working for my dads courier company making very good money but its not what i want to do.

i am trying to get all the information i can about landscaping and i plan on doing alot of research and reading over the next few months untill spring comes. and hopefully by then i'll have a good understanding of what needs to be done with certain things. also working for my dad right now will enable to me out right own most of my equiptment by spring.

i hope to get a riding mower, a push mower, a gas powered trimmer, rakes, shovels, trailer, plow and whatever else i may need. i'll try to have most of it paid for so im not in debt starting out.

the book someone mentioned i actually just won on ebay with many other books.

im also going to be taking a course at the local college that is basic landscape skills, i think its geared more towards the home owner but it will be usefull knowledge im sure.

if there is anything else people could let me in on it would be greatly appreciated!

thanks again

[GardnerLandscaping]

When you have this "extra time" you speak of, do you work this time for free or do you charge the customer while you learn?

I don't know about your customers and your business plan, but I know that my customers would not want to be used as gunea pigs for my first time trying something extreme.

If you want to try new stuff that is larger and more complex, I would either do it on my own property, or work for someone to gain knowledge and techniques for doing it the correct way. (This would apply to retaining walls, walkways etc) JMO

I work for a modest charge, but most here would call it working for free. I call it getting paid for education.

I'm honest about my experience and many rather pay half the amount to give someone new a chance. This is part of expectation management.

Got the books on how to do it the right way. Got some personal experience as well. But yes, if you feel you're in over your head, don't hesitate to outsource, watch, and learn. Sometimes, still, the book will tell you more about how to do it the right way over the professional with experience. If there are differences, ask the professional with experience as to why.

[GardnerLandscaping]

thanks guys!

i know i will have to start off very small. the reason i dont want to work for someone else is that the pay wont be enough. 8-10 bucks an hour wont really cut it.

right now im working for my dads courier company making very good money but its not what i want to do.

i am trying to get all the information i can about landscaping and i plan on doing alot of research and reading over the next few months untill spring comes. and hopefully by then i'll have a good understanding of what needs to be done with certain things. also working for my dad right now will enable to me out right own most of my equiptment by spring.

i hope to get a riding mower, a push mower, a gas powered trimmer, rakes, shovels, trailer, plow and whatever else i may need. i'll try to have most of it paid for so im not in debt starting out.

the book someone mentioned i actually just won on ebay with many other books.

im also going to be taking a course at the local college that is basic landscape skills, i think its geared more towards the home owner but it will be usefull knowledge im sure.

if there is anything else people could let me in on it would be greatly appreciated!

thanks again

sounds like you got your ducks better in a row than most people, including myself.

i'd add a hedge trimmer (commercial articulating pole trimmer if you really want to do it right) and a backpack blower. lopers are also very helpful. stick edger also good.

i have a husqvarna trimmer and blower, but if i had to do it over again, i would have gone redmax.

i'd do a commercial walk behind over a riding mower. someone suggested to me on here getting a scag for the same price as a residential riding mower.

when the customer sees the string trimmer, backpack blower, hedge trimmer, and a commercial walk behind, they know why they are hiring someone to take care of their yard rather than doing it themselves.

[Property Plus]

im also going to have to look into what sort of equiptment is out there.

half those things you named sound chineese to me! lol :laugh:


dont ask me why i want to do this as a career, i have no experience in it, but it interests me and i love to do it around the house.

i also thrive on seeing something really crappy like a beat up lawn be born again and look really nice.

i've just got a whole bunch of books on how to's and lanscaping and i'll be going to chapters this week and pick up a bunch more.

i know i wont have the hands on knowledge but i'll at least have an understanding from the books

[jake65]

I will be starting out next season as well with just mow and blow services. I have all the equipment I purchased this season. I bought a Gravely at 90 weeks no interest , no payment along with the weeed eaters and blowers. i have a handfull of lawn accounts while working a full time job. I will gradually build my lawn business now and through out the winter while preparing a business and marketing plan. One thing I was looking into was advertising full services and contracting out the services I was not comfortable doing yet. I have several reputable contractors already in mind. I know them and have requested references. I can also work with them, when time allows to learn their trade as well. Its all in the plan. W'ell see how it comes together in the Spring

Jake

[BQLC]

Always call before you dig to have underground utilities marked, even if it is an area where you wouldn't think anything is. People are known to run utilities in weird places, even in backyards.
this is very true and it alo is the law in most places and in some states you can be fined for not doing so

[martinfan06]

Don't know much about up-north landscape maintenance but sounds like you've got a good grip on things. Keep reading on this site and keep an open mind for advice by KNOWLEDGEABLE MEMBERS here. Good luck

[GardnerLandscaping]

i also thrive on seeing something really crappy like a beat up lawn be born again and look really nice.

i've just got a whole bunch of books on how to's and lanscaping and i'll be going to chapters this week and pick up a bunch more.

i know i wont have the hands on knowledge but i'll at least have an understanding from the books

If you follow a book for installing a landscape bed, you shouldn't have problems, especially if you're honest with your client and work interactively with your client to do the design so there are no surprises and HOT water as the other person stated.

Sometimes this is exactly what the residential client wants. They don't want to pay 2-3K to have it done right quickly and without any interaction like a commercial client, they want to pay to pay $800 to have it done over time within their budget, the way they want it done, and for the person who did it to stick around to maintain it.

If you lie about your experience, and you don't follow the book, you'll get yourself in hot water.

And really your first statement in the paragraph is the key to it all. You want to do landscaping because you like making things look better and will do what it takes to make it look better.

[GardnerLandscaping]

Don't know much about up-north landscape maintenance but sounds like you've got a good grip on things. Keep reading on this site and keep an open mind for advice by KNOWLEDGEABLE MEMBERS here. Good luck

He seems to have an even firmer grip realizing the complete advice from a published author is probably better than the short bits of hindsight by knowledgeable members.

Do it now while you have the time to learn if it is your thing or not.

In 3 years, do you still want to be clueless when you are faced with such a request when you're trying to run a highly-tuned business on a tight schedule? Or do you want the experience to take it on with full confidence or the experience to know you don't want to take it on.

[GardnerLandscaping]

im also going to have to look into what sort of equiptment is out there.

half those things you named sound chineese to me! lol :laugh:

This site is very useful on equipment advice especially in getting all the details in what to look for in your equipment. If I spent more time here, I would own Redmax rather than Husqvarna trimmer and blower.

[GBSLAND]

Two words- START SMALL

Don't go jumping into things you don't know anything about. Start out by cutting 15-20 lawns your first year then see if its really what you wanna do. Then you control your own destiny.

Gary

[Splicer]

Always call before you dig to have underground utilities marked, even if it is an area where you wouldn't think anything is. People are known to run utilities in weird places, even in backyards.
:hammerhead: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :usflag:

[martinfan06]

He seems to have an even firmer grip realizing the complete advice from a published author is probably better than the short bits of hindsight by knowledgeable members.

Do it now while you have the time to learn if it is your thing or not.

In 3 years, do you still want to be clueless when you are faced with such a request when you're trying to run a highly-tuned business on a tight schedule? Or do you want the experience to take it on with full confidence or the experience to know you don't want to take it on.

uhh what dont understand what your trying to say in the ending statement. I dont post on every thread like I have every answer to any question asked. Thats why I said I dont know how things are done up north,but I know they are done different so my best advice was keep open mind and take in GOOD ADVICE.

[tteckster]

VERY Good and VERY TRUE Advise......start small, esp since you really don't know how to do all of those ting yet, not to mention some of them such as the spraying and LS design will require aditional governmental licensing. Start just basic lawn maintenance (cutting grass) and build as you learn.

OR, better yet work for someone else first to learn the business.

Good luck......as we all started somewhere and started small I assure you. My first year, many, many years ago I remember making $2500.00 for the year......the WHOLE YEAR! My business has been blessed and today I have crews that do that and more every day.

Ya know, I have been researching your business (MM Lawn) every since you dogged me on my very first post (it hurt my feelings). You brag, blow smoke or what ever you call it and it makes me sick! From what I've found, you should not be giving advice to new businesses starting out. I know you have a big following here, but why? You can't even file proper reports with NC. Enough said, I'm just not a MM Lawn fan, especially with what all I learned!

[cooltype]

Yeah gardner landscaper just stop typing im tired of you posting

[PMLAWN]

Ya know, I have been researching your business (MM Lawn) every since you dogged me on my very first post (it hurt my feelings). You brag, blow smoke or what ever you call it and it makes me sick! From what I've found, you should not be giving advice to new businesses starting out. I know you have a big following here, but why? You can't even file proper reports with NC. Enough said, I'm just not a MM Lawn fan, especially with what all I learned!
Not picking sides, Just trying to help explain what we see happen a lot here.
There are a bunch of guys that have been here for a long time and have built a business up from the bottom, with hard work and lots of learning from mistakes. A lot of these guys go to work everyday in this industry and expect to support themselves, buy their home, feed their kids and even send those kids to college. They are also members of lawnsite to help educate others for a few reasons, #1 of which is to protect our industry (our livelihood) but also to help newer guys that really want to make a true living in this business get a head start and maybe not have to make some of the same mistakes.
Answers are long with many good points of how to run a business and make money, Than the guy they were trying to help comes back with crap of how they know a better way, can do it better, and with out the proper (lic. insurance, taxes, professional help, education,--take your pick)
After a while many of the old guys will just start to respond that the new guy is making a mistake, and no more. Or that from the post it is obvious that the newbie has no clue what is going on and he should learn some more.
Just look at the answers that we got here. The first two are very good but do not jump up and down telling him "GO FOR IT-- WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE" And even more important -what does the industry have to lose.
Than we "learn??" that you do everything to start (I guess even if you have zero equipment or experience),
Than we “find out” that books will tell us all we need to know about landscape and experience means nothing. (I have yet to see the book that tells how long something takes to do RIGHT and LOOKING GOOD.) And we also learn that a $3000.00 job should be sold to the customer for $800 because that is what they want?????? And professionals that would do the job right and do it so that it will last more than the first rail storm is not what the customer wants.
Lawnsite is about building a business in the land care field-
To me the word business means selling a WORTHWHILE product at a fair profit.
So when the people that have built a “business”, answer- that is what they are answering to. And when those people get kicked in the face for telling the truth that this is a hard business, that it takes a lot of time and investment of capital to make it fly, and that the ONLY way to make it fly is to learn ALL about the product, ALL about pricing the product, All about marketing the product, and than ALL about servicing the product, and also about the best way to run the TOTAL business (not just a page about how to dig a hole). These same people tend to get bitter. And tend to give quick short answers.
I have used this site for over 4 years (member for 2) and there is still good info to be had, but the people that once gave of it freely no longer do because the attitude has really changed over time.

Just something to think about- When you were in High School – was the better teacher the one that pointed out the mistakes and the problems you had, or the one that said “hey that’s great, just keep doing what you are doing and all will be OK What do you have to lose” in response to your “D” on the test.

[tteckster]

Not picking sides, Just trying to help explain what we see happen a lot here.
There are a bunch of guys that have been here for a long time and have built a business up from the bottom, with hard work and lots of learning from mistakes. A lot of these guys go to work everyday in this industry and expect to support themselves, buy their home, feed their kids and even send those kids to college. They are also members of lawnsite to help educate others for a few reasons, #1 of which is to protect our industry (our livelihood) but also to help newer guys that really want to make a true living in this business get a head start and maybe not have to make some of the same mistakes.
Answers are long with many good points of how to run a business and make money, Than the guy they were trying to help comes back with crap of how they know a better way, can do it better, and with out the proper (lic. insurance, taxes, professional help, education,--take your pick)
After a while many of the old guys will just start to respond that the new guy is making a mistake, and no more. Or that from the post it is obvious that the newbie has no clue what is going on and he should learn some more.
Just look at the answers that we got here. The first two are very good but do not jump up and down telling him "GO FOR IT-- WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE" And even more important -what does the industry have to lose.
Than we "learn??" that you do everything to start (I guess even if you have zero equipment or experience),
Than we “find out” that books will tell us all we need to know about landscape and experience means nothing. (I have yet to see the book that tells how long something takes to do RIGHT and LOOKING GOOD.) And we also learn that a $3000.00 job should be sold to the customer for $800 because that is what they want?????? And professionals that would do the job right and do it so that it will last more than the first rail storm is not what the customer wants.
Lawnsite is about building a business in the land care field-
To me the word business means selling a WORTHWHILE product at a fair profit.
So when the people that have built a “business”, answer- that is what they are answering to. And when those people get kicked in the face for telling the truth that this is a hard business, that it takes a lot of time and investment of capital to make it fly, and that the ONLY way to make it fly is to learn ALL about the product, ALL about pricing the product, All about marketing the product, and than ALL about servicing the product, and also about the best way to run the TOTAL business (not just a page about how to dig a hole). These same people tend to get bitter. And tend to give quick short answers.
I have used this site for over 4 years (member for 2) and there is still good info to be had, but the people that once gave of it freely no longer do because the attitude has really changed over time.

Just something to think about- When you were in High School – was the better teacher the one that pointed out the mistakes and the problems you had, or the one that said “hey that’s great, just keep doing what you are doing and all will be OK What do you have to lose” in response to your “D” on the test.

I agree with what your saying. But, If your saying your one thing (big & mighty LCO) but, in fact your a common Joe (MM Lawn) just be honest and state the truth, not bull ****!

[stumpjumper]

My curiosity is aroused. mmlawn needs to respond to these statements to clear it up for all of us. I have seen much advice from mm on how to run a major league lco. Not doubting anyone, but sure would like to see this clarified.

[tteckster]

My curiosity is aroused. mmlawn needs to respond to these statements to clear it up for all of us. I have seen much advice from mm on how to run a major league lco. Not doubting anyone, but sure would like to see this clarified.

Well, new LCO's can listen to advise from who ever they wish but, I advise that everyone research the so called Major League LCO before making them a role model.

[Property Plus]

wow this post blew up! lol

[tteckster]

wow this post blew up! lol

I apologize, it just erks me how some people try to put themselves above everyone else. Listen to 1MajorTom he truly helped me, he's one that I trust.

[1MajorTom]

Well, new LCO's can listen to advise from who ever they wish but, I advise that everyone research the so called Major League LCO before making them a role model.
I agree with you 1000 %. The problem is, more people are followers than leaders, and they hear something, then they ooohh and aaaahhh about it, and the next thing you know, they are sucked in to a bunch of words on a screen. However, MMlawn has never aroused my curiosity, I never doubted what he has said. I do understand he comes across kinda harsh to the newbies, and I sometimes cringe reading what he said. BUT, this thread is NOT about MMlawn, he has nothing to prove to anyone.
Please let's get this thread BACK on track, what MMlawn said in this thread was right on the money, his post was intelligent.
And tteskster, you are smart, you probably in your mind question some of the things that are said on here silently, just like I do. That's the way to be.:weightlifter:

[MMLawn]

Ya know, I have been researching your business (MM Lawn) every since you dogged me on my very first post (it hurt my feelings). You brag, blow smoke or what ever you call it and it makes me sick! From what I've found, you should not be giving advice to new businesses starting out. I know you have a big following here, but why? You can't even file proper reports with NC. Enough said, I'm just not a MM Lawn fan, especially with what all I learned!


You know tteckster I had no idea I hurt your feelings and for that I apologize, here in the open. As I recall your first post you were asking about bidding or had bid large contracts and didn't even have a mower yet and my advice was not to put the cart in front of the horse. It was truly meant to help you, but if it offended you well I just apologized and that is sincere.

As to "researching" my company that's fine, because there is nothing there to research. It is not a public company, so I am not required and do not and never will file public financials. Now, as Jodi (1MajorTom) said, I don;t have squat to prove to anyone here. There are guys here that have "really" seen my business and know that it is top notch. But with that said, we are much, much too busy to get everyone together for you for a picture or such, but if you'd like to get a partial up close look at what we do I can arrange for one of my crews to let you have a look. Say, this Thursday, I will be in a meeting in the AM but I can get with one of my 4 man crews when they are doing some commercial properties right on of I-85 between GBO and Kernersville where it would be easy for you to find us and meet you there so you can see how they work and what they work with and see about a $100K worth of equipment on site with them if you'd like.

Again as 1MajorTom said, this thread is not about me and I originally had no intention to respond to you as I agian, don;t need to prove anything. BUT when you honestly stated that I hurt your feelings, that bothered me so I wanted to aplogize and I will no longer take up this posters thread as my original post in it was inteaded to encourage him.

[GardnerLandscaping]

In the software industry, everyone knows the right way to develop software, and everyone else was wrong.

In reality, there is no right way to develop software as there is no right way to do landscaping, and I use the term in a general sense to just include lawn maintenance.

When a person who runs 100K in equipment says they started with less than 4K in equipment and not knowing what they know now, and then tells someone that is not the way to start, that is wrong.

If a person starts with 100K in equipment and tries to run a business, they will fail because they will not know how to manage such equipment and labor. Like you, the person needs to start out with less than 4K in equipment, until they learn the industry to manage 100K in equipment. They're not going to make huge profits with that equipment, but anyone entering any business should realize they are not going to have huge profits from day one.

They need to be the labor with subpar equipment to know how and why so they know how to bid jobs. They learn with subpar equipment that it takes them 2 hours to maintain a lawn. They understand that when they get better equipment, and it takes them 1 hour, they understand why they are charging $40/hr rather than $20/hr.

Even big LCOs make mistakes. I seen a landscape perfectly maintained by a previous homeowner and then watch that same landscape get destroyed by 3 men in a professional landscape truck with the best equipment money can buy every week for 20 minutes at a charge of $80/visit. I know I can personally bring home more, have that landscape maintained better, and charge the customer less even with subpar equipment.

The small guy does need to learn how to maintain a landscape first to where they don't send out 3 men with expensive equipment to destroy someone's yard. They need the books to do it right. They need the experience to make a profit.

[GardnerLandscaping]

MMLawn, I will say you're not on my ignore list. You post helpful advice though it can be pretty harsh. You're a lot like a well-seasoned software developer. You're harsh and brutal because of your knowledge, but with you, it is truely about improving the industry rather than your own ego.