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View Full Version : Which Gas or Diesel Engine??


FearThisDeere
08-01-2006, 06:54 PM
It is time to upgrade trucks. The Dakota pulling the loaded 8,500lb dump trailer 30 miles a week just is not cutting it anymore. I am torn between diesel and gas. I know the benefits to both. The way I figure it, diesel would be best, but gas will be fine. I would need to drive 70k miles to break even with the added cost of a diesel. So, what I am looking for it a truck to pull the dump trailer (8,500-12,000lbs), a car trailer with my race car on it on the weekends (2,500lbs.), and maybe a bumper tow horse trailer here and there. I am looking to spend around or under $17,000. If I found a diesel, great, but I am sure I will end up with a 3/4 or one ton gasser. Brand does not make a difference, but here is what I have thought for gas engines:

GM: 5.7 would be a good all around engine, but not sure if it will be enough power for what I need. The 7.4 might be a little overkill and the gas is not too great, but it is a good strong engine. I would lean more toward the 7.4. It gets about 11-13 on the highway and my Chevy 1500 only does a little better than that, so I am used to it.

Ford: Not too much to choose from here. The 6.0 diesel is out of the lineup for sure. So that leaves just the 5.4 and 6.8 gassers. I am concerned with the 5.4 not having enough power. This would be the engine that I am really concerened about.

Dodge: The 5.7 or 5.9. Dodge transmissions worry me no matter what they are in. I have 3 Dodges right now and I love them, but towing is not always their strong point.

So, what would be the best situation for me? Keep in mind that this truck will be towing a moderate amount, but not driven around town too much, so gas mileage isn't a huge problem, but something to consider as it is so expensive. A crew cab or extended cab would be the best option as I am going to need to tote a few people around often. I have found a 1999 Chevy 3500 one ton dually with the 7.4 in it for the right price and in great shape that I am really leaning towards. It has 121k all highway miles, tow package, loaded, new tires, and in great shape for about $11,000 asking price at a local dealer that has done good work for me. Pros or cons for this truck?

kipper
08-01-2006, 07:33 PM
I drive an 06 ram srw 3500 6 speed and would not trade it for the world !!! If all you are going to be doing is towing and loading hard, I would strongly recommend a diesel only. For simplicity of maintenance and logevity I would only go with a diesel.

Oh yeah did i mention it has a Cummins in it !!!! One of the best Engines ever produced.

If you want to wind up the rubber band of a gas engine every time you put a load on it then be my guest. But my fuel price wil never fluxuate as frequent as yours.

Just some food for thought, not trying to ump on you about it but the application you are speaking of SCREAMS DIESEL ONLY !!!!

Lynden-Jeff
08-01-2006, 07:36 PM
Go Cummins!!!!

markam70
08-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I would look into a Dodge with the 8.0 V-10. Most people are reluctant to buy one thinking the fuel mileage is horrible but its not bad. You can expect 15-17 mpg in a 2wd 2500 series while towing. Our V-10's are both 4wd, one 2500 and one 3500 dually. When pulling heavy, the mpg's are 13.5 and 12 respectively.

Dodge tranny's aren't known to be the best. Find a manual if you can but you can have the automatics rebuilt for about $1700.00 and thats building it to handle the output of a chipped V-10 (500hp, 650 ft lbs of torque).

Dirt Digger2
08-01-2006, 07:53 PM
theres a Chevy 3500 DRW 4x4 with a diesel and only 81K on the clock on Plowsite for 10 grand.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=35743

Signature Landscaping1
08-01-2006, 10:03 PM
Down the street from me there is a 1997 F350, 92k Miles, Black, No rust, Never towed anything, Plowed Once( Has minute mount brackets and wiring) I drove it the other day. I think hes asking 7/8K. If your intrested i can give you his phone#.
Joe

Gravel Rat
08-02-2006, 12:06 AM
Newer diesel trucks are not worth it anymore if your wanted better fuel mileage forget it. The new low sulphur diesel is going to be horrible it gets even less mpg the truck has less power. The Cummins option for CNDs is 6000 dollars the 6.0 Ford is the same the Duramax/Ali combination is a extra 10,000 dollars.

I like diesels and I own one but I won't be buying a new one for 6000 dollars that would by alot of gas.

Talked to a guy the other day just bought a 06 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually P/U cost him 55,000 dollars :dizzy:

ALarsh
08-02-2006, 12:53 AM
For $17K I would look at 2000-2004 Chevy 2500HD/3500 6.0L Gas. You can get some pretty good deals on ebay if you look...

J&R Landscaping
08-02-2006, 01:49 AM
A dealer around here has an 01 dodge ram 2500 5.9 cummins, auto, 4x4 88k miles for $16895.

It is a bit far away though.

notoriousDUG
08-02-2006, 09:37 AM
Don't discount the 6.0, it has turned inot a pretty trouble free motor. I would run one over a Duramax at this point.

I firmly belive that you CAN NOT beat the Cummins as far as being the best motor out there but they are sadly in a truck that simply does not cut it for comercial use IMO. If they put the 6BT in a Ford I would be first in line to buy one.

Low sulfur fuel is notr goign to have as big an impact as I think is feared, but it is somethign to be aware off.

Doing a lot of towing I woudl 100% go for the diesel, you may not make back every cent but I think they are worth it for the headache free life they usually provide compared to a heavily worked gasser.

mikes landscaping
08-02-2006, 11:05 AM
why not go with a 7.3 diesel ford f-250. find a 2002 or some older model. the 7.3 hasnt had any problems compared to the 6.0, just an idea.:)

FearThisDeere
08-02-2006, 11:43 AM
OK, so i read what you guys have all said so far. I was planning on getting a diesel, but if not, I was starting to think of what gas engines might be good. I forgot about the 6.0, so that is in the running as well. Right now I want to get a Cummins or a 7.3 Powerstroke. I found a mint 1996 Ram 2500 regular cab 8 foot bed with the Cummins, loaded with everything, and set up for a Fisher MM (no blade), and are you ready for this?... 39k original miles. The own owner was an older guy that just used it for drips to the dump and to plow his small driveway. He want $11,000 for it, so I am a little skeptical, but I am going to check it out tonight. Should I be worried about a 3/4 ton truck? Is that going to be enough for what I need regardless of the engine?

notoriousDUG
08-02-2006, 12:50 PM
OK, so i read what you guys have all said so far. I was planning on getting a diesel, but if not, I was starting to think of what gas engines might be good. I forgot about the 6.0, so that is in the running as well. Right now I want to get a Cummins or a 7.3 Powerstroke. I found a mint 1996 Ram 2500 regular cab 8 foot bed with the Cummins, loaded with everything, and set up for a Fisher MM (no blade), and are you ready for this?... 39k original miles. The own owner was an older guy that just used it for drips to the dump and to plow his small driveway. He want $11,000 for it, so I am a little skeptical, but I am going to check it out tonight. Should I be worried about a 3/4 ton truck? Is that going to be enough for what I need regardless of the engine?


As long as you are willing to put up with redoing the front end every year to two years the Dodge can be a good truck. 96 is old enough to still have trans worries but they are better then the earlier models, if you ever do have trans issues look into aftermarket alternatives like BullyDog. 96 is I belive one of the better years for pumps as well.

FearThisDeere
08-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Well, I am going to atleast consider this truck. I just think that it is too good to be true. The guy said he would even throw in a 1 year old 8' M/M 2 plow for an extra $650.

J&R Landscaping
08-03-2006, 11:15 AM
Heck, I'd drive up there to pick-it up. Sounds like a great deal!

FearThisDeere
08-03-2006, 04:44 PM
Well come up here and get it! The guy won't take trades, so I am out of luck for now.

FearThisDeere
08-03-2006, 04:49 PM
Here is a pic of it. The truck is mint both in and out. I would die to get this truck. It is just perfect. It is worth $6000 more than what he wants for it. 39,680 miles!

lwcmattlifter
08-03-2006, 05:32 PM
So your saying he wants 17,000 for it? That's way too high even though it has low miles.

ALarsh
08-03-2006, 07:04 PM
He wants $11K for it

lwcmattlifter
08-03-2006, 07:23 PM
My eyes are playing tricks on me. I thought he said is it worth 6k more.

Mike33
08-03-2006, 08:56 PM
I would not be with out a diesel. Just bought a new 06 F-350 got rid of a 03 with 6.0 typical problems. Ive heard not to much trouble with the 05 and 06. had to go with ford they have a hell of front end and i plow with a boss v plow. New truck is srw std. wb ext. cab and has a 6000 lb. front end. I dont think when i raise plow it is going to shake much. But when you ask the ? of gas or diesel you are going to get very personel opions like how can you argue what is best , Ford or chevy. It all what you want and can afford. Any truck gas or diesel will perform for what you want it to. They both have plus and negative. Good luck to you.
Mike

FearThisDeere
08-03-2006, 10:11 PM
My eyes are playing tricks on me. I thought he said is it worth 6k more.
He is asking $10,900 for it or something like $11,500 with the plow. I said that because of the way it looks, drives, and runs that it is well worth more than that. Maybe $6,000 is pushing it, but it rides like a Cadillac.

Mike: Thanks for the input. I know that it is as personal as anything, but any truck is better than what I am using right now. If the right gasser came along I would buy it and if the right diesel came along I would buy it too. I might be more apt to look over some small flaws on a diesel rather than on a gas. I guess that I am just wishy-washy. I like gas, dielsel, GM, Dodge and Ford!:laugh:

PMLAWN
08-04-2006, 08:50 AM
You are looking at pulling a good size load-- and it sounds like you will be doing it a lot of the time. I would stay away from the small block V8s
They will always be working very hard and gas will stink,
The 3/4 ton will do fine as a tow rig.
Do not worry about the added cost of the Diesel as it will always be will the truck, even when you sell it.
Chevys 8.1 is a great puller but I only get about 6.7 around town and about 9 on the road with 12000#- When I drive I am very happy to have the gas-- When I pay the credit card every month-I wish diesel

Another point, I believe the Dodge you were looking at is a shortbed- The longer the wheel base the nicer the towing on the road.

FearThisDeere
08-04-2006, 11:12 AM
Thanks for the advise PM. So I should look for a diesel or big block gas like a 454? I should stay away from 5.4, 5.7, and 5.8 engine? The Ram I am looking at is a long bed, just looks smalle in the pics. I will never own another shortbed if I can help it!

lwcmattlifter
08-05-2006, 10:58 AM
I would buy that Ram if I were you. That truck will get great mileage and it has low miles. Is the dealer flexible on the price? 10k would be a great deal. Gas engines wear out fast when they are constantly worked. That truck will easily give you 200k miles of hard towing. You may have to have the tranny freshened up at some point but that's the same with any truck.

FearThisDeere
08-05-2006, 01:52 PM
I think that he is pretty frim on the price, but it is such a deal. I just have to come up with some way of paying for it!

J&R Landscaping
08-05-2006, 06:26 PM
If you are going to go the gas route, why not look into the Dodge 8.0L V-10. A LCO around me has that engine in a 2 of his trucks. He says it likes it fuel but it has a ton of power.

jtkplc
08-05-2006, 11:27 PM
Cummins all the way. I-6 is for pulling...

FearThisDeere
08-06-2006, 10:47 AM
If you are going to go the gas route, why not look into the Dodge 8.0L V-10. A LCO around me has that engine in a 2 of his trucks. He says it likes it fuel but it has a ton of power.
I had forgot about the 8.0. I don;t think they make it new anymore, but they do have tons of used ones. Probably could get one cheap right now.

FearThisDeere
08-15-2006, 10:24 PM
So here is an update. I have looked at what seems to be millions of trucks. I really want a diesel, but might settle for a good gasser. I have not found a diesel to my liking yet, but I have found a 2005 Ford F350 XLT SD 6.8 V10 loaded with 43k miles and a 75k mile unlimited warranty for just under $25000 asking price. The truck is mint. There are a couple of scratches here and there that can be buffed out and it will need tires soon. Other than that it is perfect. Never towed. It has a factory hitch and there has never been a reciever in it. So, would the 6.8 be a decent engine for what I need? I will use it mostly for work, but a small commute daily. I do not mind the worse gas mileage than a diesel because for the amount I drive it I can not justify the extra $5000 for a diesel. I would rather just pay the gas price for now. I know, diesel, diesel, diesel, but will this truck work out for me. Any pros or cons? I know the 5.4 and 6.0 are bad, but vary rarely hear much about the 6.8.

dcondon
08-15-2006, 10:26 PM
Go Cummins!!!!

Thats if the rest of the truck will hold up to that good of a motor!!:confused:

South Florida Lawns
08-15-2006, 10:34 PM
The best engine on this planet for pickups is the cummins.

For gas engins go with Chevys The 5.7 and 6.0 are great for towing.

Mike33
08-15-2006, 10:37 PM
So here is an update. I have looked at what seems to be millions of trucks. I really want a diesel, but might settle for a good gasser. I have not found a diesel to my liking yet, but I have found a 2005 Ford F350 XLT SD 6.8 V10 loaded with 43k miles and a 75k mile unlimited warranty for just under $25000 asking price. The truck is mint. There are a couple of scratches here and there that can be buffed out and it will need tires soon. Other than that it is perfect. Never towed. It has a factory hitch and there has never been a reciever in it. So, would the 6.8 be a decent engine for what I need? I will use it mostly for work, but a small commute daily. I do not mind the worse gas mileage than a diesel because for the amount I drive it I can not justify the extra $5000 for a diesel. I would rather just pay the gas price for now. I know, diesel, diesel, diesel, but will this truck work out for me. Any pros or cons? I know the 5.4 and 6.0 are bad, but vary rarely hear much about the 6.8.
That is a good point i hashed that my self. I went with the diesel but i would buy that truck for that moey. I have a good friend that is a mechanic at the ford garage and he says they sell a truck with the v-10 and they dont see it any more. Get the drift? Also diesel maintance: oil change 16 quarts of oil, air filter 100.00 I have been told the v-10 gets the same mileage working or not. And if your around my age we drove enough trucks yeats ago that only got 8 miles per gallon. 390 ford 350 chevys.
Mike

ALarsh
08-15-2006, 11:09 PM
KBB on that truck is $21,000-$22,000. That is what I would try to get it for.

What happened to the Dodge?

FearThisDeere
08-16-2006, 12:09 PM
That is a good point i hashed that my self. I went with the diesel but i would buy that truck for that moey. I have a good friend that is a mechanic at the ford garage and he says they sell a truck with the v-10 and they dont see it any more. Get the drift? Also diesel maintance: oil change 16 quarts of oil, air filter 100.00 I have been told the v-10 gets the same mileage working or not. And if your around my age we drove enough trucks yeats ago that only got 8 miles per gallon. 390 ford 350 chevys.
Mike
I have thought of the same things as you have. Muck more oil, more exppensive filters and so on with the diesel. I have heard that these are reliable engines. The mileage is not too bad at 14-15 highway towing or not. Heck, my '93 Chevy 1500 only gets about 16 and drops a lot when towing. I don't know how old you are, but I am 18, but I have driven a truck that got 8 around town on a good day. Let me tell you, 15 sounded good then! Good old '87 318 with about 55 pounds of caked on oil!

FearThisDeere
08-16-2006, 12:11 PM
KBB on that truck is $21,000-$22,000. That is what I would try to get it for.

What happened to the Dodge?
I am going to try for around $22000 and see where it gets me. The Dodge was sold out from underneath me. He was going to save it for me to come and drive it, but sold it to a buy it now on Ebay for $2500 more than he was asking locally. Oh well, don't really want to buy a truck from a sleeze. This Ford it at a locale dealer and in great shape, so I'll see what I can do with it. I would like to go diesel, but at this time I just don't think that it is worth it. Maybe in a few years when i grow old lol!:waving:

FearThisDeere
08-16-2006, 12:23 PM
The KBB came back on it as $26534, but I'll aim to bring the dealer down some. It also has the FX4 off road package and it a crew cab. It has everything. All I need to put on it to suit my needs is a brake controller, mud flaps, and fogs lights. Then it is ready to roll. It has a cool grey/green paint job on it. Here is a pic of it:

ALarsh
08-16-2006, 03:07 PM
Very pretty truck, but 15 mpg on a V10? I think not. Try closer to 10 all the time, highway or city, towing or not.

FearThisDeere
08-16-2006, 06:35 PM
I have talked to guys in other forums with the same truck only a 2004 and they said that they were getting 14 to 15 highway and the dealer said about that as well.

FearThisDeere
08-17-2006, 10:53 PM
I have found a few newer (2001+) F250s all with the 6.8 V10 in them that I am thinking about buying. They are all mint. I just think the F350 listed above is too long for what I need. So, what should I look for on the F250s and will this be sufficient? They basically have the same towing capacity as the F350, just a smaller bed payload which I am to really too concerned about because of the dump trailer.

lwcmattlifter
08-17-2006, 11:17 PM
Didn't the early V10 have a lot of problems with the rear passenger side spark plug blowing out of the cylinder head? Just something to look out for. I'm almost certain there is a TSB on it.

Mike33
08-17-2006, 11:26 PM
I'm 46, owned some real junk in my time. My first but great truck was a 66 F-250 . Started and ran great smoked like a diesel. Hell 10 years a go i started out witha 79 chevy 1 ton dual wheel. Had a dump bed built for it and re built the body , thats what i used to do. What a piece of ****, 8-9 miles to gal. when it would start always breaking down where ever it felt like. If you can buy a new vechicle go for it, you cant run a business with junk. I tried and learned the hard way. Good luck to you.
Mike

J&R Landscaping
08-18-2006, 12:43 AM
I have been looking for a larger truck for some time. I know at the moment I really don't have a true need for a diesel but I want one and I am just going to keep saving till I come across the one I have been waiting for.

My point is don't settle. If you truley want a diesel, hang it there and get one. You have the work to handle a diesel and you probably want one deep down inside anyway! JMO

FearThisDeere
08-18-2006, 10:26 AM
I really do want a diesel, but it only because it is a diesel. I really can't justify one anymore than a gasser. Honestly anything is better than the Dakota pulling 8,000 lbs. I have never owned a truck newer than 1996. For me to even consider looking at something like an '05 F250 is just mind boggling to me. I have never had a truck that was bigger than a 1500. I can justify a bigger truck, just no sure about a diesel. As long as a truck can haul a good amount of weight, it is what I need. I'll look out for the rear passenger side spark plug.

PGold
08-21-2006, 12:21 AM
I was very impressed with the fuel economy and with the power of my F250. I got 18.75 mpg on the highway, about 15 in the city, and pretty crappy towing (i never care to know how crappy) 10,000 pounds on a regular basis. It is excellent for a work truck that you will use as a daily driver. It is quiet at drive thru's, it will haul the weight, you don't get diesel on everything. The only downside is about 300 hp less than a diesel (big downside). But my vehicle is a 2003 with 97,000 miles. My uncles is a 2000 powerstroke with 140,000 miles, and it is probably worth more than mine just because it is a diesel. I purchased it from BroadwayTruck.com . The people were great. It was by far the best deal I have found. They had about 50 trucks in stock, but most of them have sold.

FearThisDeere
08-21-2006, 10:27 PM
I was very impressed with the fuel economy and with the power of my F250. I got 18.75 mpg on the highway, about 15 in the city
What engine do you have that gets that kind of mileage?

PGold
08-22-2006, 11:43 AM
I have the 5.4 and the higher gears... (3.73 i guess)... I know it doesn't have anywhere near as much power as the powerstroke, but it does well for what I need it for. I never wanted to get a gas engine. I was in the market for a powerstroke, but I live on the Gulf Coast, and powerstokes are a hot item for debris removal after the hurricanes. I haven't been able to get a good powerstroke, so I bought the 5.4 until I run across a diesel. I purchased the truck in missouri, and on the drive back I kept the speed at 67 for as much of the trip as I could and the fuel economy was 18.75 mpg. I don't have 4wd, and it is just the regular cab f250.

FearThisDeere
08-22-2006, 12:52 PM
That makes sense. I am looking for something with a bigger engine tho.

FearThisDeere
08-22-2006, 07:18 PM
OK, so what about a Chevy 6.5? I have heard that they can be junk, but what is everyone's view on them?

J&R Landscaping
08-23-2006, 09:57 AM
OK, so what about a Chevy 6.5? I have heard that they can be junk, but what is everyone's view on them?

You heard right, They are JUNK. I see them advertised all the time. 85k, 100k fresh rebuild. needs rebuild. has blow-by.

I would never buy a 6.5 diesel.

FearThisDeere
08-23-2006, 11:01 AM
That is what I was thinking. The deal was way too good to be true.

lawn guy1350
08-23-2006, 06:18 PM
Heres my opinion ive had both cummins and powerstroke, my 05 cummins rite now pulls pretty good (has a bully dog chip)and gets crap fuel mileage (10 mpg). my previous truck was an 04 6.0 powerstroke. love it! pulled like a dream and got 16 mpg towing my lawn trailer. before that one i had 3 7.3 powerstrokes, and am sorry i traded them, they always pulled great and never needed chips...a good friend of mine has an f-250 4x4 with the 5.4 v8 and 6 speed tranny, pulls my trailer just as good as mine, and pulls a 24ft lowboy with bobcat quite well too, so my opinion ford is the way to go. cummins is good to but the truck is crap, mine has been in the shop several times for interior problems, the windshield leaks and ive had the passenger side power window go out already and ive had to replace the radio, so maybe its just me but ive had a bad experience with the dodge... it seems everyone else says the cummins gets 20+ mpg but i havent seen anywhere close! but go with what u like, i hope this helps some...

FearThisDeere
08-23-2006, 09:46 PM
Well, I have found a truck that I am pretty sure is going to fit the bill if I can make a deal on it. It is a 2001 Ford F250 with the 6.8l V10 and 55k miles. I took it for a drive tonight and the thing is perfect. All it needs is new brakes and the dealer said that they were going to install them as soon as the truck sells. It even had a good warranty with it. It has tons of power and is in mint shape. Bought new at the dealer and was traded in for a new one. It has never works a day in it's life. The bed liner is spotless. I mean the truck is just great. The steering is good, but much different that what I am used to, but I'll just have to get used to it. It is not bad, but just different. It has so much power and I was getting an average of 13.2 over a 20 mile trip around town according to the lie-o-meter on the top console. I just love it. Heopfully I can seal the deal. It is not a diesel, but it is the next best thing.

ALarsh
08-24-2006, 12:48 AM
How much mula?

FearThisDeere
08-24-2006, 09:33 AM
Asking $20,000 with new brakes. All it needs is tires in about 20k and a trailer brake controller and it is ready to roll. It is a crew cab short bed. I'll see how much I can get them down. It is the nicest truck I could find and the price is $6k less than what I had been looking at.

montana jack
08-24-2006, 10:34 PM
Congrats on the new truck. I think you'll be happy with the V10. I've heard a lot of good things about the engine. Most owners love them & many were former 6.0 owners.

FearThisDeere
08-24-2006, 10:39 PM
I got it for about $19,500 with trailer brake controller, 30,000 miles warranty, new brakes, and I guess that is it. It blue books for $23,000ish, so I felt it was a good deal. I pick it up Monday and should have some pics of it soon after. Started with a Ford then it was Chevy, Ford, Dodge, and now back to Ford. I have now owned a total of 8 vehicles in the past 3 years! I get bored quick.

Keith
08-26-2006, 01:53 AM
One thing I recommend...go ahead and change the spark plugs and do it the proper way. Ford modular engines, especially early V10's, had issues that I am sure that you are aware of. Do yourself a favor and change the plugs now to prevent a possible future "event."

Join us V10 guys over on ford-trucks.com V10 section for info on that job and any other questions you might have.

FearThisDeere
08-26-2006, 02:45 PM
Awsome. Thanks for the link. I will be there soon. The dealer is replacing the spark plugs before I get it. I made sure of that.