To Swing or Not to Swing???

[PurpHaze]

Went out on a repair order today on a broken sprinkler. Thank goodness this was only a small system that was contracted out to our local Rainrape company. :dizzy:

[Dirty Water]

Seen that a lot Hayes...its pretty sad.

I also see a lot of broken tee's from the nipple shoving through the tee as the head gets driven on.

[PurpHaze]

Fortunately the tee was about a foot back. Still not enough room for a normal ST 90 turned sideways at the end of the 3/4" lateral to start the swing joint. Glued a new ST 90 upright, added the extra Marlex 90 and then was able to swing it where I wanted it.

[Mr. Vern]

Those ones that were chopped off actually didn't look too high to me. I would have concluded that the grade was too low judging by the grade of the concrete. The sprinkler looked to be right where it should have been if they would have graded it properly. Either way the head was sticking up into the mower path.

So, do you guys always use a flex joint and never use those cutoff risers? I switched to using them on all installs because I found that they made the guys more efficient when setting to final grade and/or borders. I never really thought of them as being a better quality - especially in non-traffic areas. I have my daughter build them by the hundreds and pay her $.50 a piece for them and I still save a ton over buying them pre-assembled.

[PurpHaze]

Those ones that were chopped off actually didn't look too high to me. I would have concluded that the grade was too low judging by the grade of the concrete. The sprinkler looked to be right where it should have been if they would have graded it properly. Either way the head was sticking up into the mower path.

Very observant Vern. The top of the sprinkler was at sidewalk height but the actual grade was never brought up. This still makes the sprinkler too high though.

So, do you guys always use a flex joint and never use those cutoff risers?

We use this particular method of swing joints and NEVER use cutoff risers. Others here use different methods of swing joints that pretty much accomplish the same thing.

[speedbump]

Hey Purp,

I worked for a gulf Coarse irrigation company years ago. (We won't go into how many years). We built swing joints by the hundreds. I can't remember just how they worked now. Is there a flexible pipe used in them or do you not glue the joints or what. I have to know, it's killing me.

I can give you a hint on the time frame, we were using Toro heads with the little 1/8" tubing running all over the place with these cute little vertical stations all over the Golf Coarse that had a million tubes inside. Somehow these tubes made the heads popup, with a pressure differential. It's just been too long.

bob...

[lugnut#6]

To Swing or Not to Swing??? .....been tryin to talk the wife into it for years.....no luck:nono:

[PurpHaze]

I worked for a gulf Coarse irrigation company years ago. (We won't go into how many years). We built swing joints by the hundreds. I can't remember just how they worked now. Is there a flexible pipe used in them or do you not glue the joints or what. I have to know, it's killing me.

In our particular swing joints the only thing that is glued is the white slip x thread 90 el which is glued onto the lateral line. Everything else then will turn with the aid of the Marlex 90s which are neither glued nor taped. The Marlex is similar to PE in feel and meshes without teflon tape.

[Dirty Water]

In our particular swing joints the only thing that is glued is the white slip x thread 90 el which is glued onto the lateral line. Everything else then will turn with the aid of the Marlex 90s which are neither glued nor taped. The Marlex is similar to PE in feel and meshes without teflon tape.

I use the exact same swing joint when working with 1" inlet heads (I-25 etc), but we use swing pipe on the smaller stuff.

[Mr. Vern]

I use the exact same swing joint when working with 1" inlet heads (I-25 etc), but we use swing pipe on the smaller stuff.
We used to use flexible pipe (Funny Pipe) in place of swings, but I found that when I added employees they were getting too many of the pipes kinked and the rework got too expensive. I never remember kinking a single one, but I sure had a lot of employees who figured out how to. That's why I've switched to the swing joints.

[Dirty Water]

We used to use flexible pipe (Funny Pipe) in place of swings, but I found that when I added employees they were getting too many of the pipes kinked and the rework got too expensive. I never remember kinking a single one, but I sure had a lot of employees who figured out how to. That's why I've switched to the swing joints.

Odd, I haven't had any trouble with our guys kinking any, but you can't put it past people.

We use Hunter HFT-100, it is very stiff. Also, by using a marlex el under the head you gain an extra axis of adjustment that keeps the swing pipe from kinking.

[speedbump]

I had never heard of Marlex before. I am familiar with PE as I installed my first system with it when I was 18 years old. Back then they used little irons to burn holes in the pipe, then you would strap on a saddle clamp to screw the head into. This was not the best system by any means, but was all they had beside galvanized pipe at the time.

When I worked for the Golf Coarse company, they used nothing but swing tees, and I'm pretty sure they used just plain SCH 40 PVC. And you didn't glue the ells. At least the golf carts couldn't hurt them that way.

bob...

[golfguy]

speedbump, them little tubes are hydraulic lines. They are used to keep a valve closed on a normally open hydraulic head. The little boxes are the timers. Once activated the hydraulic pressure, which is normally 5 pounds higher then the main line, drops allowing the sprinkler to begin watering.

[speedbump]

It's been a long time and since I don't golf, I haven't even seen one of those little boxes since the 10 or so I installed years ago.

Does drinking beer really destroy brain cells? Naaaaahhhhh!

It's starting to come back to me a little at a time. Thanks golfguy.

bob...

[Oxmow]

I use funny pipe here as well.1/2 inch straight el to funny pipe adapter on the end of the pvc and put the head where ya want it. It will kink if you try to use it in too tight of a loop. However as hard as the dirt here in the midwest can get with no rain...in some places flex or swing makes no difference, drive over a head and it breaks the head itself. Most of my problems with the larger rotors is from my allnight restaurants that have the heads come up under a cars airdam and they back out taking the head with it.

[PurpHaze]

I had never heard of Marlex before.

I actually think Marlex is a form of HDPE but I'll have to look into it. The ones we use are either from Lasco or Spears... just depends on what our supplier has in stock. The SCH 80 nipples are also either Spears or Lasco.

When I worked for the Golf Coarse company, they used nothing but swing tees, and I'm pretty sure they used just plain SCH 40 PVC. And you didn't glue the ells.

I've seen SCH 40 street els used in swing joints and they do the same thing. However, the threads of SCH 40 els have to be taped with Teflon while the Marlex do not.

I also run into a lot of galvanived "swing joints" put in by plumbers YEARS ago. Of course they probably only swung when they were originally put in and then froze up immediately. :laugh:

[PurpHaze]

Here's some pics of swing joints put in off hardpipe risers. A lady tripped over the original bubbler so everything had to be changed. Funny thing though... I actually was asked to look at the plan (about 6 years ago) and picked up on the hardpiped bubblers being a problem. (We've had other falls at other sites from them in the past.) The LA was supposed to take them out of the plan (he was not too happy about it) and 12 bubblers in 6 tree wells escaped final inspection. :dizzy:

[gusbuster]

I make my own swing joint as we go during an install. A new product that I started using last year(thanks to a very generous sales rep) is a product called BLU-LOC.

Whats nice about them is instead of having to push in and twist(Like R.B.) or twist like Lasco's blue twisters is all you have to do is just cut to length needed and insert completely in. (just like a glued slip fitting)(haven't yet have a failure with over a thousand swing joints installed in the last 1.5 years)

A few cents more per fitting, but man, what a labor and hand saver.

I think with an added marlex, the perfect swing joint. The only catch 22 is that here in CA, the only place that sells them is J.D.L. I wish Horizon and Ewing would carry them.

The other downfall is they use Orbit as their distributor, but heck nobody is perfect right.

[Mr. Vern]

However as hard as the dirt here in the midwest can get with no rain...in some places flex or swing makes no difference, drive over a head and it breaks the head itself.

Not to nit pick, but isn't the point of the sprinkler to keep the ground from drying out?

[PurpHaze]

I make my own swing joint as we go during an install. A new product that I started using last year(thanks to a very generous sales rep) is a product called BLU-LOC.

Are these barbed or compression types? If so... no thanks. Probably work great on residentials but I could start a library of pictures solely containing hundreds of pictures of barbed/compression-type swing joints that have failed. Those failing near concrete or asphalt also ended up undermining those areas requiring costly repairs.

[BRAD ROMEO]

What Is A Swing Joint (dont Know I Mow Grass )

[Wet_Boots]

a Swing Joint is where Grandpaw met Grandmaw, way back when. the big bands led by Benny Goodman and Glen Miller played, and everybody just about danced till they dropped.

[Hank Reardon]

a Swing Joint is where Grandpaw met Grandmaw, way back when. the big bands led by Benny Goodman and Glen Miller played, and everybody just about danced till they dropped.

A.k.a. The Love Shack! :laugh: Just about had coffee on the laptop over that one!

The "swing joints" we use are made up of an assembly of a barbed ell (male which threads into a PVC socket on the lateral), connected to a length of poly pipe (usually around .49" that matches the barbed fittings), connected to another barbed ell, connected to a Marlex street ell which is threaded into the bottom of the sprinkler head. This allows the head to "give" when weight is applied (e.g.: mowers, people, etc) and it also enables the irrigation service provider to raise or lower the head as the grade changes without cutting new risers.

Other swing joints can be built using PVC street ells and a length of PVC pipe. For the big heads (I.e: I-40's) we will use a Lasco swing joint kit which contains the fittings needed (partially assembled with o-ringed street ells) and we just glue up our own pipe to the length needed.

[gusbuster]

Are these barbed or compression types? If so... no thanks. Probably work great on residentials but I could start a library of pictures solely containing hundreds of pictures of barbed/compression-type swing joints that have failed. Those failing near concrete or asphalt also ended up undermining those areas requiring costly repairs.

I can understand the hesitation in your situation where you need a proved reliability situation.

Take a look and see if we are talking about the same thing. I've used these also to fix some of the commercial places I take care of. Even have one that gets ran over continuously by tractor trailers in S. San Francisco and so far, the rotor may be screwed up and smashed but not the swing joint.

If its something that fits your fancy, go to their website. They will send you samples and I mean samples to try.(I have fittings that I will never use) at no cost to you except your time.

[Dirty Water]

I've seen the blu lock, but I've never seen a failure with Hunter HFT-100 swing pipe coupled with a lasco blue twister el, as long as its properly installed.

Blu Lock is kinda spendy too.

[sildoc]

Swings are nice but I still think that I prefer using the funny. I Love the strait plumb that most contractors do around here as it brings in good money in fixes and refits.

[gusbuster]

Blu Lock is kinda spendy too.

I would of thought so also until I compared prices @ J.D.L. vs my current supplier Horizon Irrigation.

Lasco blue twisters were higher than horizon's price, but not worth driving around to get that price at horizon.

From horizon, my unit price for the twisters is .26 and the unit price for the blu-loc was .29. Also, R.B. funny pipe coiled vs the blu-loc proprietary funny pipe, there was only a 1.25 difference.

I make up those price differences in labor time easily.

I guess I'm really spoiled because in both Modesto and Stockton, Ewing,J.d.L and Horizon are less than 10 minutes from each other so this allows me to shop around by phone and get the best prices for the components I use. I don't buy enough to worry about free delivery so if I can save 20 to 30 bucks, pays for a good lunch,specially since I usually combine it with a trip to Costco or something like that.