Lay Off The Young Guys

[iski3d]

I think it's bad how everyone here critisizes the young guys. They come here for guidance and advice. I also am a high school student. I drive a ford f-350 diesel, puling a 14' enclosed trailer with a 61" ferris hydro and a ferris 48" belt. Yes this is my own business. I have paid cash for all my equipment (my own money), I have insurance, and everything else that goes along with having a legit business. Right now I have 34 accounts which I do while still managing to stay on the Honor Role at school. Like I do, I think most of the young guys on this site look up to you older guys. We all have to start somewhere, so please have patience with us. Thanks.

[HOMER]

Hang in there, things will work out. I'm glad to hear your doing so well, glad your not around me!

[Eric ELM]

iski3d
It's not everyone that is critisizing the young ones here. I for one am very proud of some of you members that act like adults and have your businesses going strong. I have chatted with some here for a long time and would of never known that these members were not at least 30 years old the way they conducted themselves, only to find out they are still in school. My hat is off to these members and you know who you are. ;)

Keep up the good work

[geogunn]

no criticism from me, either.

but as a minor age person, assuming you are not yet 18, I am curious how do you conduct business legaly since you brought it up? such as your insurance contract?

GEO

[Groundcover Solutions]

I am only 17 and have a business with my friend. We have 2 52" exmarks and a ford f-250 and planning on geting a dodge deisle soon.
but as for contracts we have all of our customers on them i do not know how binding they are since we are only 17 but as long as they think that if they don't pay there will be some consacunces then so be it. for insurance we just have my friends dad co-sign every thing for us!

[parkwest]

Maybe some of the people resent high school teenagers who claim to be running a legit business because the teenager goes out and under-bids a man who is trying to feed his family because the kid is still living with mom and dad and needs just enough money to get a new skateboard or money to take his girlfriend to the movies.

I think what might help would be if young entrepenuers were able to get into some kind of apprenticeship program for future business owners. When I was growing up, if you wanted to be a carpenter or electrician or plumber, you were looking at a 3 to 5 year program with on the job and classwork. When you were thru you were a skilled craftsman. How long do you think a program for business owners should last?

Maybe Lawsite could set up a minimum standard of required reading and award a certificate of Master Gardener upon completion.

One last thing. Sorry but I couldn't resist. Question for iski3d. Is spelling and grammar no longer required in school to be on the honor ROLL? :)

[jeffyr]

I have no problem with any kid or adult that does not B.S. me.
My dissagreement lies when the advice given anybody (young or old) is meant to sound like the voice of experience when it is not. I'm sorry, but if you ar 14 years old, how can anybody say that they have "been in business" for X years. Yes you are working, and yes you are working on your own, but this differs greatly from running a business. When I was 14 I had 12 lawns per week that I cut (I can barely admit it but for $12-15 per week). Looking back on it I made alot of money for a kid. But when people ask how long I have been "in business" I don't use the first time I touched a lawn mower as an answer. I think that the people on this forum only ask that they not be misslead by anybody that doesn't have the experience to advise--young or old.
I give all the working kids alot of credit--I know it's not easy between school, work, friends, and parents. I know this because I have done it myself.

Don't do drugs, stay out of jail, and practice safe sex...when the time comes.

:eek:

[Tim1075]

My friend who is 18 and I run a legit business while we are both attending high school and college. We maintain 29 accounts year round. We are running 2 trucks a 95 dodge 2500 and an 85 f-350 mason dump both with plows. We are pulling a 16ft open trailer with 2 36" scag belts and a 52" scag hydro, 2 stihl fs85 trimmers, 2 stihl br400 backpacks. I feel that even though we are not as big as some of you guys we are still doing good for ourselves. I mean it is better than what other kids our age do at least we are out making something of ourselves instead of having mommy and daddy put it infront of us.

[John from OH]

I think the criticism comes from the younger generation trying to give advice on topics that they don't have enough experience to pass on viable information. Most of us probably started a young age, I know I did, but that did not qualify me as an expert as a teenager. When I was 18, I thought I knew it all, now that I'm approaching 40, I think there is still more I don't know than I do know.

[dhicks]

No criticism from me regarding the young guys especially you and others like you that have the drive and fortitude to operate your own business.

[Scag48]

I'm 14 here. Second year in business. Last year alone I made $1500 with the small amount of lawns and some other little jobs I did. Most of that went to the bank, while I spent a little and bought my Stihl BR 320 B/P. This year I bought a used Toro Groundsmaster 118 44" and next year I'm planning on getting a Stihl FS85RT with the edger and maybe a newer 21". I think it's great that there are guys out there in high school that are operating their own business, as well as guys my age. There are SOME, not all but some, guys here that don't believe that we have anything good to say, the younger guys, that is. That it not true. I contribute as much as I can and try not to say anything if I have NO clue about the topic. Anyway, thanks for the patience with us, the guys that acutally have patience with us, that is. ;)

[Alan]

I've got nothing against the youngsters, at 14 I was plwoing 13 driveways in my small town with a JD110 and snowblower. I find it encouraging to see the motivation some of them show. The flip side of the coin is that some of the young guys give evidence that they are, at best, semi-literate. I noticed that none of the young posters here in this thread wrote in such a fashion that it needed to be decoded to be understood. My compliments to you and maybe some of those who CAN'T write a decent post will take the hint,, or take a hike.

[Craig Turf Management]

In mt humble opinion, it's not how old you are or what you drive, but what you have to offer when adding your viewpoint to this forum. There are some older folks who contribute to this site, but an older operator who has been in the business for just a little while may not have much to contribute, myself included! On the other hand, a younger person may be wise beyond their years. I take all of the information from this site with a grain of salt. I am slowly learning the folks that I can count on to give me insightful information.

Just one more thing. Think about what you have to offer to the folks on this site before you post. Is it useful information? My grandfather used to tell me "You have two eyes, two ears, and only one mouth." His point was you should listen and learn, but not use your mouth quite so much.



Bill Craig

[lawrence stone]

Scag 48 you’re not the problem. Your English composition is good enough for government work.

I even enjoy reading the adventures of Scag 48 with dad and grandpa.

The little groundsmaster you bought for only $1200 should serve you will for many years to come. I would love to have that machine to
push a tine rake, power a 12vt spreader, or pull an aerator.

[danlawnser]

Thanks guys for the more positive atittudes. I don't really plan on starting a full time business yet and that won't happen to after college. The main reason I am doing it is because I enjoy it and I want to LEARN. I don't want to be like some young guys on here who work everyday of the week but I just want to have enough yards that I can make money to buy lawn equipment and other things like a jet ski. Man I still think you need to have fun in life and don't over work if you don't have too. I sure don't and I have learned that there is only a certain amount of yards you can handle. Think of if it rains for a couple of days then you have to rush on your yards to get them done. JUST have fun in life. Sorry it got long. I feel like I was Preaching. (this was not directed at any individuals) I know that I sure haven't learned everything and never will.

[lawnboy82]

i just turned 19 today. i have been doing this stuff for other people since i was 12. over the past 2 years i have gotten more towards full service. i went to a vo-tech school for 2 years in high school and currently attend umass, the stockbridge program where i major in turfgrass management. i work for myself now, legally. i dont drive a great truck, wish i did, but saving up enough money now is hard. constantly paying some bill or another. my mind is shot you guys. it really is. this is where i relax. i worked today on my birthday to the point where i couldnt celebrate. too late at night. i used to make money doing this stuff. now it all goes to buying new equipment. i have enough money to live and whatever. yes i do live with my folks, yes sometimes i underbid things. yes sometimes my work is not the greatest, but yes my customers do love me, yes i do get complements often about my work, yes i am learning. last year i had one heck of a hard year for somebody my age. i hope i dont have to go through that again for several years to come. so call me a scrub, call me whatever you want. i have heard it all. and it wont piss me off or anything. oh yes, and last year i started off with 30 lawns. now i only maintain about 10. and some of those ones last year were nice ones too.

[joshua]

some very good posts in here, a question to all, because i know i have done it before. last year i was asked to bid on 2 funeral home( which i got). i bidded about $10 less than what it was worth on the first one because of location. and was asked to bid on the 2nd, bidded it at what its worth. we cut these places every 4 days from the time the grass starts to grow till 1st snow. only takes us 40mins on the 1st one and 50 mins on the 2nd. making about .60 a hour on the 1st and 1.oo a hour on the second. yes i did lowball on the 1st 1, in most guys minds, because they have in mind of cutting it every 7days. and when i go to a new account i tell the people i will be here every 5 days in the spring and in summer when it needs it. and my prices are better than most because of this, does it make me a lowballer?? or does it make me smarter because cutting a $25 lawn for $22 every 5 days i will cut it more and have it look good all season long.

on the topic of being young, i say i have been in business for 5 years, meaning i have paid taxes for 5 years, i have had a company name for 5 years, i have ran a laget business for 5 years, only have cut with commercial mowers for 4 but does that mean that i have only been in business for 4 years, even when i cut for businesses that 1st year with 2 push mowers?
i know alot of us younger guys try and give the best reply to posts that we can and some might be wrong and some might be right, but in our eyes we are giving what we think is the best answer. and what we would do in our eyes in that situation.

[Eric ELM]

making about .60 a hour on the 1st and 1.oo a hour on the second. yes i did lowball on the 1st 1

Are you telling us you make 60 cents an hour on the one and a dollar an hour on the other?

This won't pay for the gas to mow it.

Are you sure of this?

[sdwally]

My hats off to these young lads(eventhough I'm just an young 36)! I grew up on a farm and learned the meaning of work from the day I(about age 11 or 12) could pick up a hay bale(about 65lbs). All of my friends in school had the summers and weekends off to do what they wanted. I only had the time after all the hay was put up, fields planted or havested, and the livestock fed. I also participated in sports, however, the chores were still there when I got home.
As for age, I think I rate people on their maturity level and not physical age. I know some adults who don't have the brains or common sense of some the 15 and 16 year olds I've worked with. I think that most of these young lads will miles ahead of their counterparts that are have everything giving to them on a silver platter(not counting guidance and a supporting hand once in awhile).
Some words of wisdom passed on to me in my younger days.

1) from an instructor of mine in diesel technology(age about 50): I've forgotten more knowledge than you have learned yet!

2) I think from my parents: If your talking you aren't learning!

3) from my uncle(a lawyer): Old age and teachery will beat young age and know how every time!(Older people have been there, done that, learned their lesson, and how to beat it next time!)

[KD'sLawns]

I appreciate the fact that there are still younger people that are responsible and are willing to learn. Also, I am always willing to take some advice or help from anyone that knows what they are talking about. Age is unimportant, experience is what counts. For those of you still living at home and talking about how rough it has been. I say, "Just Wait". Just wait until you have 2-3 children to feed, mortgage payments, car payments, utility bills, and a whole slew of other bills. You have not even come close to seeing rough! Also, why is it that in your posts you always list your equipment? Eg. "I have a 3/4 ton chevy with 454, dual exhaust, and nitrous hooked up to it. I also have a Hustler Z with a CD player and an 80 hp. engine". Hint, it's not the equipment, it is what you can do with your equipment. It does not matter if you have an old electric craftsman, and you are working out of an old Subaru, it is the job that you leave behind that separates the men from the boys so to speak. Anyone can go out and buy $80,000.00 worth of equipment but it does not mean that they are a professional. If I buy a bank, am I a banker? No, I own a bank. There is a difference! So do not try to impress people with the equipment you run, immpress them with the job that you do with your equipment!!! Sorry so windy,just had to vent.

[racerdave]

Age in itself does not reflect experience. If I were to do the same thing everyday for thirty years, then I only have one days experience thirty years over....in other words, expereince is knowledge gained through innovation,education,conversation,and also our mistakes as long as we don't repeat them! One of the best things about Lawnsite is the fact that our members have a multitude of backgrounds,ages,and experience. It's for the best that we hear from everybody, even the new guys with there "new" problems which seem trivial to "seasoned" members. We must remember, we were in that that boat once before. Besides, the "new" guys may come come up with an idea about an "old" problem that us ol' guys had not thought of.
David

[luckylawnboy]

I Started out with about 7 yards a wheelhorse, and a lawn boy when I thas about 12. When I turned 16 I had a camaro I-ROC Z with a trailer hitch and a Duetz-Allis. I started mowing a 180 unit apartment complex, people started to ask me if had a business and I said I guess, I payed taxes, drove to the property did a damn good job, but according to some I forgot I didn't meet the age requirement to be a big business Man. So I am glad to see the people who have came forward and and stated that they glad to take advice from any one. One question, I'm only 21 so do I meet the age requirement to be a business man. Yea, don't have kids, so I guess that makes me able to just buy more equipment, toys and have more fun. So If I ever get married and have family to support, mabye then I might be a ligit Business.

Start young and kick a** and have fun

[Sammy]

All in all, your just another brick in the wall !:cool:

[Ron Persaud]

I would just like to add 2 comments which my grandfather would make.
"Knowledge defeats mathematics; the more you divide it, the more it is multiplied"

The second is the story of a young man who asked an older man how to avoid mistakes. "Gotta have experience", replied the older one.
"How do you get experience?" The younger man asked.

"Gotta make mistakes!" Replied the older man.

[Sean Adams]

This is what a "community" is all about. Chuck and his moderators have put LawnSite together so those in this industry can learn from one another, argue with one another, make fun of one another, etc...It's part of business. The young guys make mistakes, but they are learning. It is admirable they are willing to come to this site and try to improve themselves. The "older" guys should also be appreciated for giving advice and examples of experiences that the "young" guys would have to learn on their own - the hard way. I speak to Chuck on a regualr basis and I know that this was his intent all along - getting the pros in this industry to talk to one another instead of...

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[Albemarle Lawn]

Now 27, have college degree from Va Tech, own a gorgeous home, all new equipt paid for, and have no debt other than my mortgage. All from the lawn care biz.

Never too young to start, just don't squander your youth working too hard.

Ken

[bobbygedd]

and remember, no need to practice safe sex, if youre the only one in the room.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Eric ELM
iski3d
It's not everyone that is critisizing the young ones here. I for one am very proud of some of you members that act like adults and have your businesses going strong. I have chatted with some here for a long time and would of never known that these members were not at least 30 years old the way they conducted themselves, only to find out they are still in school. My hat is off to these members and you know who you are. ;)

Keep up the good work

I’m with Eric. Personally I really don’t care but if you are going to post on here please act like the young adults that you are

And I thank someone for finaly saying Lay off the young ones

LGF:blob1:

[Island Lawn]

<bump>

Lotsa good vibes on this thread.

I've got my share of experience.
But I don't know too much that I can not still learn.

I think I may have picked up one or two things on this thread alone.

Thanks


My 02:
The demographics seem to have changed since I first joined.

Lawnsite has a lot more than double the amount of members now!

There have been a lot of good people come online here.
I've seen some good ones go.

Maybe there has been a seemingly large amount of newbies (I won't say the "S" word) trolling around.
Most of us seem to catch on.
Donchathink?

[AltaLawnCare]

Originally posted by Sammy
All in all, your just another brick in the wall !:cool:

I agree with that and the safe sex thing.

If any young'un was criticized here - they brought it on them selves.

[John Allin]

Ok... Ok....

Now.... let's gather round here abit and do the 'group hug' thing....

[plow kid]

:laugh:

[Guido]

Originally posted by AltaLawnCare


If any young'un was criticized here - they brought it on them selves.

I've been waiting to chime in, but you took the words right out of my mouth.

There have been 13 year olds (I found out later) that have asked clear and concise questions and have gotten helpful and intelligent answers from me and others. Then, there have been some 16 year olds who seem to need to go back to grammer school. Its all how you bring it guys!

[dlandscaping]

since i am only 15 i decided i had to throw in my story as well. its great to see other kids around my age doing what i am doin. Now have 17 accounts a 12 ft open trailer, stihl br400s toro 36 gear mower, lesco 48 gear mower, a billygoat, 4 commercial trimmers, a big leso spreader, stihl and echo hedgetrimmers, an echo edger and toro and honda 21 inch mowers. All of this i paid for out of my earnings from landscaping and all the equipment is brand new. i dont have a truck yet since i cant drive it but i a planning on a f350 for next fall(when i am 16) and i am getting a 44 toro commercial Z at the end of the year. I maintain my lawns and i am on the honor roll and play varsity sports just to prove that i am working hard!

[Evan528]

DLandscaping, I can tell you like to toot your own horn a little to much! Your quote says "I mow for money, 2 mid size walks and im only 15". It dosnt matter what your age is.... its how hard you work. I had a truck at 13 and equipment , a new ztr at 15 along with walk behinds and at 16 a new truck and new trailer...... Im 17..... theres something about the kids on here my age that get to me....... Yes... your taking responsibility, and thats good...... but your not the only one. I belong to lawnsite as a member.... not as an amazing 17 year old with his own business blah blah blah! I dont no what im trying to say.... just venting! sorry!

[alabubba]

One peculiarity of our society is that although there are prohibitions against the young being employees of certain kinds of businesses (employer can't hire below a certain age for certain jobs) part of freedom is being free to own a business at any age. And a business owner has the right to to anything legal to make a profit.

I think it is great when a young man (or woman) shows the desire, drive, responsibility and tenacity to start and operate a business. In doing so, they may grow up a little faster, but since when has it been a rule that one had to be a "kid" for an extended period of time? Or that one has to settle for a minimum wage job at B.K. or Mc.D. because of their age? If a young man can do the work of a man and conduct his business affairs in a manly way, then surely he has earned the right to profit and enjoy the fruit of his labors..

[little green guy]

I pretty much agree with everything Evan just said and I also agree that anyone who's been critizied brought it on themselves. :)

[dlandscaping]

evan yea thanks for your reply, you think i am on here braging about what i have all i did was state what i have as of now which most of the others said in the discussion and you did the same. i dont know if you are trying to put me down or something with your truck and new Z but i do fine here without both. i live in the city and only a few landscapers have Zs or standons i dont know where you are located and how big your lawns are but around here they are small so i have to make do with what i have and also i dont charge much at all i enjoy what i do i aint only out here to make money you know and i dont know if you got handouts or anything from parents or other landscapers which i unfortunately havent recieved

[Evan528]

I was trying to make a point by stating what I have Build up to as a professional, not as a 17 year old! My signiture does not read "only 17 years old and have a ztr and a new truck". With that being said....... lets end this little squable right now!

[Eric ELM]

I agree this has gone far enough, I am closing this.