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lzrj
08-18-2006, 11:12 PM
For you guys that know something about asphalt. I was given bids for a driveway. One company quoted $3,975 for a 2" lay and another gave a bid of $4,325 for a 2 1/2" lay. Is the half inch worth the extra $300 or will there really be no difference in it if the base is done right. Both are known for quality work in our area.

Scag48
08-18-2006, 11:27 PM
It's only about an 8% increase in cost for an investment that will be installed for years. Honestly, I don't know if the extra 1/2" will help, but it sure won't hurt.

tylermckee
08-19-2006, 01:03 AM
I think for a driveway 2" will be fine, assuming your sub base is good. If your sub base isnt solid you could put down 6" of asphalt and it will still crack and break. 2" is bare ass minimum for parking lots, roads, etc, (around here at least, it usually 3" crushed then 3" asphalt) and they will usually see more traffic in a day than your driveway will all year.

Gravel Rat
08-19-2006, 01:10 AM
Talk about chinsy with the pavement I wouldn't drive a heavy truck on 2"s of pavement. I would find a company that will lay it down atleast 3"s thick or go with concrete or paving stones.

lzrj
08-19-2006, 10:55 AM
going to 3" jacks the cost up another thousand. I would like to do concrete to match the apren pad outside the garage but that doubles the price. I just didn't know if the extra 1/2" will make any difference at all in the long term. If it dosent, that extra $300 will let me go out and buy a power washer.

SLSNursery
08-20-2006, 09:56 AM
You should find out if that is before or after compaction (rolling). 2 1/2" after compaction is not so bad for a driveway based on what I've seen in our area. Too thick and I'd be afraid that the average driveway paver doesn't have the compaction equipment to do the job correctly and you'll end up with mushy asphalt.

As I side note for quality control, I can usually find out if it is compacted enough and if the base was good as I back the triaxle in to deliver a load of soil so the homeowner can backfill the edges!!!:laugh:

ksss
08-20-2006, 03:04 PM
If you want to make your asphalt contractor sh!t himself, hire engineers to do a nuke compaction test on the subgrade and asphalt. Let the asphalt guy know that nothing that doesn't meet density specs will be accepted. Around here they are about $75 dollars per test. When it comes asphalt and concrete few things are as important as the subbase. I watch these small fly by night paver guys come into town with their fancy trucks and these ity bitty rollers. They use them because it helps them keep the weight low on their packed trailers but they are not worth much more than a plate compactor. I would want to tell him before he starts the job what your plans are.

Dirty Water
08-20-2006, 03:31 PM
I have to agree with Kiaser about the subbase being the most imporant part. Asphalt has very little strength, so you could have 10" of asphalt and it would still pothole all up if the base is crap.

Concrete on the other hand, with enough bar, is really not picky at all (at least in my climate) about base. We used to just dig down, throw 2" of clean uncompacted gravel down and pour.

ksss
08-20-2006, 04:12 PM
Concrete with rebar and tied into a foundation that maybe true. Concrete however requires a well compacted uniform base to achieve max strength under load. According to what I have read on the subject, concrete spread loads it weight across a large area transfering its load through out the pad thus reguiring solid compaction to keep from breaking down. Concrete that is supported by rebar may not be as critical. However with the costs of rebar these days it maybe cheaper to just do a good job on the prep. All the State jobs that I have been on that required concrete prep were always checked with a density tester before they would allow the concrete to be poured. I can only assume that it is for a purpose.

Dirty Water
08-20-2006, 04:57 PM
Perhaps the contractor I worked for back in the day was sketchy, I don't know. He had a great reputation.

We would compact fill dirt with a jumping jack, but usually for foundation footings we would just pour directly on the native soil, or a few inches of rock, per engineers specs.

We don't have frost heave up here (Super mild winters), so perhaps thats the difference.

On slabs, we would use a fibermix in the concrete, and lay out wiremesh and rebar. Again, we only compacted if fill was brought in.

The guy had been doing it for 28 years so if concrete was breaking up everywhere he would probably know by now.

The only time I would consider compacting a base before concrete would be in a high traffic road.

Gravel Rat
08-20-2006, 07:05 PM
For most concrete driveways in my area is scrape off the brown dirt (topsoil) throw down some road base to level things up and form and pour. The roadbase is compacted with a plate compactor. The ground is so hard here if the driveway has been use for years the ground is so compacted you are not leveling things by hand.

Most driveways are 3 1/2 " thick as the contractors use 1x4s for forming the same mix used for house foundations is used for driveways. Local cement plants pretty well sell standard mix (4 to 1) they also add the fibers in if the contractor requests it. Rebar is added to the higher stress areas in the driveway.

The only bad thing about concrete driveways is it does show oil spots and everything else spilled on it. If you have oil leaks on a pavement driveway it eats it away.

In my area concrete driveway is taxable it increases your taxes because its classed as perminant where as pavement is temporary.

We have had cases where a loaded tandem axle dump trucks rippled a pavement driveway where the drive tires rolled up the pavement. The driveways are usually warm from the sun. Had steer tires (super singles) wear a hole into the driveway from turning.

If you want a pavement driveway pave it to highway spec's. Some parts of our roads they layed down 16"s thick pavement to level out long dips in the road.

tylermckee
08-21-2006, 01:01 AM
Perhaps the contractor I worked for back in the day was sketchy, I don't know. He had a great reputation.

We would compact fill dirt with a jumping jack, but usually for foundation footings we would just pour directly on the native soil, or a few inches of rock, per engineers specs.

We don't have frost heave up here (Super mild winters), so perhaps thats the difference.

On slabs, we would use a fibermix in the concrete, and lay out wiremesh and rebar. Again, we only compacted if fill was brought in.

The guy had been doing it for 28 years so if concrete was breaking up everywhere he would probably know by now.

The only time I would consider compacting a base before concrete would be in a high traffic road.

Thats about how everyone does things up here, with the exception being anything for the city/state. They have their rules on what you can and cant do and usually everything needs to be compaction tested

Pave_A_Lot
09-04-2006, 05:56 PM
Go with a 3" layed thickness (2 1/2" Compacted) With at least 4" of good road base Maybe even more depending how harsh your winters are

We always use a Min. of 5" of base on all projects thats the norm in WI.,
and we let Freshly based jobs sit for a week to make sure nothings going to settle down.
Make sure your contractor is using heavy enough compaction equipment (at least 2ton double drum vibratory roller) and has waterd base before rolling (helps compact)

ksss
09-06-2006, 12:54 AM
Pav a lot,

What do you think of your CASE 445?

Pave_A_Lot
09-06-2006, 08:02 PM
Ksss, the Crews like it so they want another one (they argue over which crew gets to use it). So that tells me its GREAT!