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View Full Version : What Skid Steer to buy


tdusek
08-21-2006, 01:37 PM
I am looking to buy a skid steer.

I want a heavy machine to move a lot of material at one time as well as high flow for hydraulics. I have looked at the Bobcat S300, Deere 332, Gehl 7810E, Cat 268.

I have had major work done on 2 Bobcats with under 600 hours on each.

They might not be my favorite.

I am leaning toward the Gehl. High HP-High Flow-3850 lb lift capacity.

I would rather not hear from a guy that is die hard brand just because that is all he has ever used. Like a Ford vs Chevy thing.

Anyone know why I shouldn't look at Gehl? Or why Bob, Cat or Deere are better machines?

Thanks Guys,
Todd

mow king
08-21-2006, 04:07 PM
I am looking to buy a skid steer.

I want a heavy machine to move a lot of material at one time as well as high flow for hydraulics. I have looked at the Bobcat S300, Deere 332, Gehl 7810E, Cat 268.

I have had major work done on 2 Bobcats with under 600 hours on each.

They might not be my favorite.

I am leaning toward the Gehl. High HP-High Flow-3850 lb lift capacity.

I would rather not hear from a guy that is die hard brand just because that is all he has ever used. Like a Ford vs Chevy thing.

Anyone know why I shouldn't look at Gehl? Or why Bob, Cat or Deere are better machines?

Thanks Guys,
Todd

If you work on the machine yourself, you don't want a gehl, they're a ***** to work on.

Otherwise they're pretty good machines. If I were buying another one I'd stick with cat, I personally like them over the other machines. They're reliable, I have a good dealer and they're easy to work on.

Tigerotor77W
08-21-2006, 04:45 PM
Which two Bobcats have you had problems with and what year were they purchased?

The Cat 268 is slightly lighter than the other three options you have listed. To that list, I would also add the Case 465, which, as ksss can attest, is a beast of a machine as well.

Who will be doing the machine's maintenance?

Scag48
08-21-2006, 07:51 PM
I'd buy a Case if service is good in your area.

oldrustycars
08-21-2006, 07:54 PM
case. never bobcat.

tdusek
08-21-2006, 09:33 PM
Which two Bobcats have you had problems with and what year were they purchased?

The Cat 268 is slightly lighter than the other three options you have listed. To that list, I would also add the Case 465, which, as ksss can attest, is a beast of a machine as well.

Who will be doing the machine's maintenance?


The first was a 763 and a T190. Both of them used and under 400 hours when purchased.

Machine Maintenance: Warranty=Dealer After Warranty=Me or dealer

Mike33
08-21-2006, 09:40 PM
Notice my company name ( Bobcat Landscaping Service ) Im kind of parcel but yet open minded. I think the key is to buy a piece of eq. that you have a local dealer close. Service is the main thing second is having attachmeny availibity. As far as brands your going to find on this site or like in your local bar room , Which is best ford or chevy!
Mike

dozerman21
08-21-2006, 10:39 PM
I would give the Deere a good look. I have the CT332 and so far I'm very happy with it. I have looked at just about all of the major skid steers out there, and I think the Deere is by far the most serviceable. It opens up all around the engine and hydraulics, especially compared to a Bobcat. I don't know if the high-flow is enough gpm for what you need (34 I think), but it's a very stout machine that is engineered very well (cab,hyd.power,machine balance,etc...) If the Deere isn't what you're looking for, I'd go with Case for my next choice.

ksss
08-22-2006, 12:51 AM
The Gehl at least on paper is a lot of skid steer. The issues I would have with the Gehl are low hyd. hp at the high flow side. According to Loftness, they were way low given the hp of the machine. The other issue with Gehl is resale value. They don't have any. As far as operating comfort and durability, I have not run the big Gehl skid steer but other Gehls I have run had terrible fit and finish and basicly were not as well built as some of the others. That is not to say they are not durable, they may be, it seems to me like someone built the Gehl in their shop over the winter. I am envious of the dump height of the that big machine. CAT certainly cannot compete in this field over 3000 ROC. The Bobcat S300 is a good example of excellent fit and finish, I just don't believe they are that heavy duty but they are certainly capable. If the duty cycle was lighter they would probably do well. The 300 series Deeres are still a crap shot at this stage at least to me. I continue to of issues with these machines. Granted not near the extent of the 200 series and not the 332 specificly but rather the 300 series in general. The 332 does spec. well. The 465 CASE certainly deserves a look. It has one of the strongest hyd. systems on the market, extremely well built from a structure stand point. The weakness of this machine (at least the 95XT my 465 is not here yet) is they are thirsty, the cab room is tight. The 400 series cabs are improved, but not as nice as I would like them to be. Bobcat still leads the market I believe as far as putting together a high quality cab.

From a Productivity standpoint I can say that the 95XT is very impressive. Combined with ride control and an 83" bucket you can move an incredible amount of material.

Scag48
08-22-2006, 12:56 AM
Bobcat's cab makes you feel like you're flying the space shuttle with all the plastic crap and the deluxe instrumentation is a joke, do you really need all that on a skid steer? I swear the display on a $40K Bobcat skid steer is better than that of a $140K 312C and the 312 displays aren't shabby in the least bit. At least Bobcat has their priorities straight, that will always be their biggest selling point, ease of use and less operator fatigue.

Cat has a nice, but very subtle cab. However, Cat doesn't produce anything in the 3,000 ROC range, too bad for them. Give the business to CASE.

7 IRON
08-22-2006, 05:35 PM
Go With A John Deere 328 Or 332,Good Visability,Vertical Lift,60-40
Weight Distribution,Ect.

tdusek
08-23-2006, 08:39 AM
Let me ask you guys that use joy stick controls, I know they are standard on Cat machines.
Can you get just one track to move and pivot on the other?
I know Bobcat with the "Selectable Joystick Controls" you can flip the switch and have your left and right track controlled with each joystick.
Can you do this with Cat, Gehl & Case?

Tigerotor77W
08-23-2006, 11:22 AM
You can do it with Cat, though it may take some getting used to.

AWJ Services
08-23-2006, 01:10 PM
Can you get just one track to move and pivot on the other?

Yep no problem what so ever.

dozerman21
08-23-2006, 11:46 PM
I'm not positive, but I don't think Case has released their joystick controls yet.

tdusek
08-24-2006, 08:22 AM
Yep no problem what so ever.


AWJ, What machine do you use?

tdusek
08-24-2006, 08:32 AM
I'm not positive, but I don't think Case has released their joystick controls yet.


They call them Excavator Style controls, I believe they are hand with a foot throttle.

Online Brochure:

http://www.casece.com/files/tbl_s93PDFRepository/PDF521/721/Skid%20Steer%20435_445_450_465.pdf

AWJ Services
08-24-2006, 09:03 AM
I use a Takeuchi TL 140

I have run Cat machines and both Pilot controls are very much alike.

Pilot controls are a breeze.
Have put 10 hours seat(in 1 day) time in it with virtually no fatigue.

AWJ Services
08-24-2006, 09:10 AM
I know Bobcat with the "Selectable Joystick Controls" you can flip the switch and have your left and right track controlled with each joystick.
Can you do this with Cat, Gehl & Case?

No not with true pilots.
Gehl,Mustang tracked units are Takeuchi built.

I am not sure what Cases will be.
I hope they go true Pilot controls.

ksss
08-24-2006, 10:37 AM
CASE's pilots will be true hydraulic pilots. As far as selectabliltiy from pattern to pattern, no. The machine (I believe ) will be ordered in either ISO or H pattern from the factory and that is the way it will be. I really wanted them to offer a pattern changer like Komatsu. Problem is and if you have run Komatsu you know. By changing the functions you must make all flow requirements equal (for the different functions lift, tilt, curl, travel etc). They don't run that well like that. The Komatsu was contunually at the bottom of the score charts by everyone there. This problem is only with true pilots. Bobcats EH system does not have this issue. You can switch patterns and not notice any change in how the machine runs. Considering how long it has take CASE to release these pilots they had better be awesome. They have apparently pushed the release date back. They had a fairly decent prototype machine in Jan. None of the cab redesigns were done but they had a nice running system for a prototype. Something must be taking longer.

Tigerotor77W
08-24-2006, 02:40 PM
They call them Excavator Style controls, I believe they are hand with a foot throttle.

Online Brochure:

http://www.casece.com/files/tbl_s93PDFRepository/PDF521/721/Skid%20Steer%20435_445_450_465.pdf

These are not pilot controls -- they are still servo controls. As ksss mentioned, Case's pilots aren't out yet. (BTW -- you can order Cat controls in a permanent H-style control pattern as well, but as with the rumored Case pilots, pattern switching is not available.)

I also want to correct my Cat comment: it's possible to spin only one side of wheels or tracks, but the left joystick is still the only one used. There is no pattern switching in Cat's pilots. It's either H-style (Case) or ISO.

J&R Landscaping
08-25-2006, 03:55 PM
I have severall dealers for skid steers around me. Gehl, mustang, CAT, bobcat, jcb, case, komatsu, and New Holland.

The 2 closet dealers are CAT and JCB and JCB has 2 different dealers with-in 35 minutes of me. The CAT dealer is the largest and they also have several rental store locations around my area. Service is very good but so is the service provided from the JCB dealers. The Gehl dealer, and the New Holland dealer are a bit further but the Gehl dealer near me only usually has 5-8 machines in stock and doesnt have a very impressive parts inventory. The new holland dealer has a lot to choose from and \has an extensive parts inventory.
I have demoed both machines but I think personally I would go with CAT because I like some of the features on them. (the single joy-stick control, and the foot pedal throttle being the largest!) Also, I have 2 locations, (the main dealership and a rental store) each only about 10 minutes away so if I need anything, they are the closest!

2109 Stang
08-25-2006, 06:46 PM
Hi folks been reading the site for long time , but only my 2nd reply . I have a Mustang 2109 which is the same as the Gehl 7810 ,and it's a lot of machine , it moves a cubic yard on every load , it reaches where no other SSL would and even higher than must backhoes , I would like to say that this is the only machine , toy or equipment that I have ever run that might be a little over powered (not complaining) at 115 hp , maintenance its a little hard , but it is a big equipment , I can put up with that , the cab is roomier than must , visibility superb , you ve got to keep in mind that it is a big machine when getting around tight places ,t he other thing is that you do need a deck over wheels trailer since it would not fit on a SSL trailer and also its pretty heavy , for my operation is the only machine that works , plus I have had mustangs before and I'm happy with their reliability ,I ve also owned Case ,good machine but a little too small for my trucks. With this I hope I can help on something.If anybody here ever has any question about my machine I would like invite you to ask without hesitation ,Ill be kind to answer based on my experience .

tdusek
08-25-2006, 09:56 PM
Hi folks been reading the site for long time , but only my 2nd reply . I have a Mustang 2109 which is the same as the Gehl 7810 ,and it's a lot of machine , it moves a cubic yard on every load , it reaches where no other SSL would and even higher than must backhoes , I would like to say that this is the only machine , toy or equipment that I have ever run that might be a little over powered (not complaining) at 115 hp , maintenance its a little hard , but it is a big equipment , I can put up with that , the cab is roomier than must , visibility superb , you ve got to keep in mind that it is a big machine when getting around tight places ,t he other thing is that you do need a deck over wheels trailer since it would not fit on a SSL trailer and also its pretty heavy , for my operation is the only machine that works , plus I have had mustangs before and I'm happy with their reliability ,I ve also owned Case ,good machine but a little too small for my trucks. With this I hope I can help on something.If anybody here ever has any question about my machine I would like invite you to ask without hesitation ,Ill be kind to answer based on my experience .


Hi Stang,

I hope I can ask a few questions from you.
How do you feel the Gehl/Mustang is for reliability, breakdowns etc.?
How many hours are on that machine?
Do you use it in a yard only or in the field like a construction site, etc?
Would you buy it again?
I am still don't know what machine to look in to.

Also possible dumb question for anyone: Pilot controls = left joystick is machine and right is bucket?
H pattern = left is left track and raise and lower and right joystick is right track with dump and curl?

Do I have this right or am I an idiot?

Thanks for your input!!

2109 Stang
08-26-2006, 11:14 AM
Hi Stang,

I hope I can ask a few questions from you.
How do you feel the Gehl/Mustang is for reliability, breakdowns etc.?
How many hours are on that machine?
Do you use it in a yard only or in the field like a construction site, etc?
Would you buy it again?
I am still don't know what machine to look in to.

Also possible dumb question for anyone: Pilot controls = left joystick is machine and right is bucket?
H pattern = left is left track and raise and lower and right joystick is right track with dump and curl?

Do I have this right or am I an idiot?

Thanks for your input!!


Hi tdusek .this machine only have 200 hrs on it , but so far no problems.
I do use it around the yard and have done some construction work.
I will buy it again if , with no problems.
This machine is the only SSL capable of doing everything Ineed for my line of work , it needs to be tough , able to load a big truck as quick as a backhoe and on a very space limited area , also needs to be low enough to go under a house on stilts thats why I din't get a backhoe.
One other thing that I did want was a machine that was well balanced , the experience I had with my 1845C Case make me hate short wheel based machines.
With this Im not trying to convinced you to buy one of this machine it's just my personal experience , and after all has been said and done and very happy with the Mustang.

J&R Landscaping
08-26-2006, 06:21 PM
Hi Stang,

I hope I can ask a few questions from you.
How do you feel the Gehl/Mustang is for reliability, breakdowns etc.?
How many hours are on that machine?
Do you use it in a yard only or in the field like a construction site, etc?
Would you buy it again?
I am still don't know what machine to look in to.

Also possible dumb question for anyone: Pilot controls = left joystick is machine and right is bucket?
H pattern = left is left track and raise and lower and right joystick is right track with dump and curl?

Do I have this right or am I an idiot?

Thanks for your input!!

I think but can remember definitly to be posotive that CAT skid steers are Right joy stick drives the machine. Left is for bucket/attachment. I have demoed them out and rented 1 last season and I'm pretty sure what I just said above was correct! Hope this helps!

Lazer_Z
08-26-2006, 06:33 PM
I think but can remember definitly to be posotive that CAT skid steers are Right joy stick drives the machine. Left is for bucket/attachment. I have demoed them out and rented 1 last season and I'm pretty sure what I just said above was correct! Hope this helps!
Correct you are.

Rob

Scag48
08-26-2006, 07:01 PM
Cat skid steer controls are: Left joystick, direction and speed. Right joystick is bucket controls.

Lazer_Z
08-26-2006, 08:11 PM
Cat skid steer controls are: Left joystick, direction and speed. Right joystick is bucket controls.
Thank's for the correction Scag.

Rob

Scag48
08-27-2006, 12:20 AM
No problem. :cool2:

tdusek
08-28-2006, 08:46 AM
Hi folks been reading the site for long time , but only my 2nd reply . I have a Mustang 2109 which is the same as the Gehl 7810 ,and it's a lot of machine.

Stang,
I found a Mustang Dealer by me, I stopped by there yesterday. They had a 2109 in the lot. That is one heck of a machine! This one had all the options, air, 2 spd, high flow etc. I did not realize how big that sucker is.

I did open the engine compartment and looked around, seems like everything is easy enough to get to. There is a pump on the right side, is that to jack up the cab?

I have been looking at all specs from the bigger machines and Mustang/Gehl would be a definite choice. The cab is pretty big inside and there isn't a lot of unnecessary things like on Bob's. The door is flat not curved, replacing the glass would be cheaper etc. I really liked the open view and the leg & foot room in there.

I noticed your in way south Florida, hold on to your seat and I hope this hurricane just brings some rain and keep the wind out on the ocean! Take care down there.

Todd

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 12:19 AM
Stang,
I found a Mustang Dealer by me, I stopped by there yesterday. They had a 2109 in the lot. That is one heck of a machine! This one had all the options, air, 2 spd, high flow etc. I did not realize how big that sucker is.

I did open the engine compartment and looked around, seems like everything is easy enough to get to. There is a pump on the right side, is that to jack up the cab?

I have been looking at all specs from the bigger machines and Mustang/Gehl would be a definite choice. The cab is pretty big inside and there isn't a lot of unnecessary things like on Bob's. The door is flat not curved, replacing the glass would be cheaper etc. I really liked the open view and the leg & foot room in there.

I noticed your in way south Florida, hold on to your seat and I hope this hurricane just brings some rain and keep the wind out on the ocean! Take care down there.

Todd

Hi Todd , I'd told you this was a big machine ,yes that pump on the side it is to lift the cab , once you lift the cab and remove the side panes it's easy to get to anything inside the engine compartment , pumps and hoses , mine is pretty much like the one you've described . There is a thread here on this site that somebody mentioned shifting to 2nd gear on a Gehl and there was a big laud bang , the reason for that is that this are not two speed transmissions that you can shift on the go , 1st gear goes from 0 to 7 mph while 2nd goes from 0 to 14 mph , but you must stop to shift , and I tell you while 14 mph does'nt sound fast , for a SSL it is pretty fast , as far as I know the only SSL that can shift while running is the Komatsu. I can go faster on first than most other SSL , If you end up buying one of this machines I would recommend you to get the quicktach to change attachments. I have a curiosity if you dont mind me asking , what will you be using the machine for ? mine is been used to load dump trucks and spreading rock an fill dirt for construction etc.
About the hurricane I dont thing it's coming thrue here , but we will get a lot of rain and strong winds , Hopefully everything is going to be OK.

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 12:43 AM
Here it is doing maintenance.

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 01:13 AM
Maintanance...

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 01:19 AM
Loading...

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 01:24 AM
10 miles from shore...

Scag48
08-29-2006, 03:14 AM
How do you get into the engine compartment of that 2109?! The back door swings open to a huge radiator, how do you perform routine engine maintenance? Not by lifting the cab, I hope.

AWJ Services
08-29-2006, 07:51 AM
How do you get into the engine compartment of that 2109?! The back door swings open to a huge radiator, how do you perform routine engine maintenance? Not by lifting the cab, I hope.

What do you consider routine maint?

I was told that my Takeuchi was hard too reach maint items also.
All fluids can be checked from back and 4 bolts hold the cab down which takes a few minutes too release.

My first complete filter change took less than 30 minutes from start too finish including fluids needed.

tdusek
08-29-2006, 08:33 AM
I have a curiosity if you dont mind me asking , what will you be using the machine for ?

I am looking to use it for moving dirt and grading, installing lawns and brushmowing. I would also like a stump grinder and I am looking into the brush shreaders which need the 40 GPM. http://www.brownbearcorp.com this is one that I was looking at.



I like your playground.



How do you get into the engine compartment of that 2109?! The back door swings open to a huge radiator, how do you perform routine engine maintenance? Not by lifting the cab, I hope.

From what I read, I hope Stang doesn't mind my input, the radiator swing out also to access the front of the engine not the side like a Bobcat. Also a door above there lets you get to the air filter and oil fill. It looks to me like you raise the cab by removing 2 bolts in the front of the cab and pumping a bottle jack. I think you could get to the point in those pictures with leaving the tires on in under 5 minutes. Maybe Stang will add comments.

2109 Stang
08-29-2006, 11:13 AM
How do you get into the engine compartment of that 2109?! The back door swings open to a huge radiator, how do you perform routine engine maintenance? Not by lifting the cab, I hope.
Hi Scag there is a hatch that opens up on top of the engine from there you have access to air cleaner and fuel filters , there is also a panel on each side that can be remove really easy to get to oil filters and oil pan , the manufacturers recommended that you remove all wheels to change the oils , but I found out that it's not necessary , of course I did it all by the instruction the first time , there is also a bolt to be remove to swing the radiator open which you don't need to to for any maintenance , when all this doors and panels and cab is remove or lifted the machine looks more like a transformer but like I've said you don't need them all open at the same time and to lift the cab is easy , just remove two bolts inside the cab and pump the jack

Scag48
08-29-2006, 04:36 PM
Gotcha. Just wondered how easy it was to check oil, coolant, get to fuel/air filters, etc.

tdusek
08-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Stang, Do you have the Cummins or the Perkins engine?

2109 Stang
08-30-2006, 04:00 PM
QUOTE=tdusek]Stang, Do you have the Cummins or the Perkins engine?[/QUOTE]


Hi Todd mine is a 2005 so it came with a Perkins , which is a good engine , but if I knew they were going to have a Cummins , I wuold have waited a year I used to have a Case 1845 C with the 3.9 Cummins and loved it (the engine not the machine) the new Cummins has 100 hp , but I'll tell you that it's still a lot of hp for a SSL , so far I haven't use half throtle on this machine. One thing the 2109 have which I don't know if it is good or not or if the other brands have is a flow control for hyd fluid going to an attatchmen on HI and LOW flow , this is the only machine that I have seen with this , and the ability to reverse the flow to extract the Hyd fluid that you pump into an attatchment , I dont know why but it's there , They said sometimes you rent an attatchment taht it's low on Hyd and when you get done with it you have to refill your machine , and that eliminates that problen and keeps you from spending the money on Hyd fluid.I've never rented an attatchment and Im kind of worried that it might contaminate the hyd system on my equipment , I have friends that this has hapend to them before , so it got me thinking .Well the hurricane did nothing but dump a lot of water aorund here and baerly any wind and kept us from working
since monday thank goodnes.

tdusek
08-30-2006, 08:17 PM
Glad to hear everything is good there, I talked with my cousin in Orlando area and he said basically the same thing.

I went back to the Mustang dealer by me and test drove a 2109. A LOT of muscle. I am pretty sure I am sold. I talked with a Gehl rep today and there was a price difference of about $9K. That lifts very high also, very nice. This one had AC/heat, high flow and 2 speed. I was running the machine and pushed the 2 spd button... quite a difference. That thing moves. I liked it a lot.

Everything seemed pretty easy to access also, the cab goes up in under 5 minutes and to get to the drive line can be done from the outside of the machine not under the drivers seat like other models. It looks like someone put some thought into the engineering of it.

Did you say that your machine can or cannot shift on the fly?
This one I could with no problem.

2109 Stang
08-30-2006, 09:49 PM
[QUOTE=tdusek
Did you say that your machine can or cannot shift on the fly?
This one I could with no problem.[/QUOTE]

Yes you could shift my machine on the go but there is that bang , on the owners manual it specified that you shouldn't shift while running , now if they got the new one to do it smoothly that is awesome , we've got to keep in mind the SSL industry is moving on a real fast pace , every year that goes by they can change so many thing and incorporate new technology to an equipment , I see that on the heavy equipment and trucking industry that is almost alarming to me , Im an old fashion and conservative guy that like good things the way they are and not changing like they do.But that will be good for all and it takes a little time to make adjustment and people like me to get used to it.

tdusek
08-31-2006, 08:30 AM
Yes you could shift my machine on the go but there is that bang , on the owners manual it specified that you shouldn't shift while running , now if they got the new one to do it smoothly that is awesome.


This one shifted pretty hard but there was no bang.

The owner of the dealership, which is also the mechanic, told me that only changed the amount of oil that is pumped to the drive motors. More oil faster speed.

rutwad
09-12-2006, 01:53 PM
I have just started looking at the Mustang 2109 and I like it. Does it have a pressurized cab? How about the ASV RC-100? I've heard good things about the ASV.

2109 Stang
09-13-2006, 11:59 AM
I have just started looking at the Mustang 2109 and I like it. Does it have a pressurized cab? How about the ASV RC-100? I've heard good things about the ASV.

Hi rutwad: I'm sure you can get any machine now days with pressurize cabs , I've seen the ASV with it and I got my Mustang with it too.

MikeAtv
09-21-2006, 09:28 AM
Do you guys know anthing about the Cat 287 high flow?

Scag48
09-21-2006, 01:49 PM
Do you guys know anthing about the Cat 287 high flow?

What do you want to know?