View Full Version : Wondering what is a better plan

Gravel Rat
08-30-2006, 07:21 PM
I'am trying do decide do I want to build a rolloff system or stick with a dumping flatdeck ?

I have to get back into doing landscaping not planting flowers or anything like that but getting back into clean up etc.

Currently I have a brandnew hoist sitting in my basement its a telescoping hoist. The one problem it really won't work for a rolloff hoist because it doesn't have enough stroke for a set of 13' rails its good for a 11' box. So I would have to sell it buy a scissor hoist.

The pro's about a rolloff hoist is I can have a flatdeck and a few dump boxes it also makes it easier to load with a box on the ground. I can also rent out dumpster boxes. There is only one other person in the area that provides small dumpster boxes the other companies are 40 yard bins only.

The Cons the first one the expense of building the system and making boxes which is the scarey part its a big investment and I'am unsure how well I could do profit wise. Looked at hooklifts a person has to invest way too much money looking at 15,000-20,000 just for the hoist no boxes thats extra.

The second con is dealing with people that load the bin wrong. You drop a bin at a construction site it ends up getting everything thrown into it. At our landfill everything has to be separated into wood,garbage,metal,drywall etc. So if I have to go to the landfill and separate everything that kind of defeats the purpose of me not handling the material myself.

Third con would be the truck I build this on would have to be a 4x4 if I want that then I'am looking at buying a brandnew truck. A F-450 or 550 4x4 used and in good shape is hard to find. A 2wd with a rolloff hoist wouldn't have enough traction I don't think I could get out some places.

A rolloff truck would be nice but is it really worth it ?

I need to build a dump truck of some sort if I want to be back into landscaping and hauling material. Is there a reason why the companies that have tandem axle trucks and 40 yard bins don't have any smaller trucks ?

The one local guy he bought a hook lift and bins back in 91 still has the same truck I don't know if its ever paid for itself. I think it cost him 50,000 dollars back in 91 to buy the truck hoist and a couple boxes. The truck doesn't make him his living he is in the residential garbage P/U with a regular garbage trucks.

I have a 9 to 5 job now and it just isn't cutting it I need to get back being self employeed so I'am looking at different options. The bank will give me a loan now that I work for a company I can use that to buy a newer truck and get rolling again. When your self employeed the bank usually just :laugh: at you.

I'am getting tired of the 9 to 5 robot routine the job never changes atleast when I was self employeed I can set my own hours and hopefully make more money.

2109 Stang
08-30-2006, 08:12 PM
I'll start with the flat bed as a cheap and quick solution , then as you go you should know if you can make that investment , it takes a lot of money and you probably need a yard big enough to store all those dumpsters which it doesn't come cheap , so there are my 2 cents.

AWJ Services
08-30-2006, 09:40 PM
You can buy a Roll off trailer with 3 12 yard containers for around 15k in the states.

All the cleanup crews here uses single axle Non CDL trucks with 20 yard dumps.

One guy I know has 800 roll off containers .

Gravel Rat
08-30-2006, 10:03 PM
See I have been out of the loop for 2 years now I haven't done any real kind of landscaping jobs or rubbish removal. Last year I worked for a excavation contractor and this year back with a job for the gov't in public transportation.

I need to help with my income the gov't job doesn't pay enough so I need something for my days off. If the work is good enough hauling and landscaping I may say see you later to the gov't job. The economy has picked up some so there is work out there. Two years ago the work was really spotty, last year was smoking busy so its why I got a job so quick with the excavtion contractor. This year its slowed down but it seems to be steady there is prospect of 100 houses or more to be built in the area. It all hinges on the interest rate and if the housing market keeps going. The housing market seems to be dragging a anchor right now its slowed down.

I really don't want to sink myself deep into debt building a rolloff system and find out there is no demand. I do need a replacement truck my 95 is nickel and diming me now it needs a steering box :rolleyes:

One thing I'am considering is a skid steer with a grapple on it for loading the truck. Its allot of work loading the truck by hand especially old demo debris or old duriods etc.

The CDL thing isn't a problem for me I don't think I could make enough money with a single axle 5 ton its also not economical for me to run a single axle. I get jobs where I'am cleaning up a senior citizens basement so they may only have a P/U truck full of junk usually charge them 100 dollars plus disposal fees. Most construction sites usually call me before the debris pile gets out of hand most of the time it takes one load to remove all the debris (5 yards). A smaller truck like a 450-550 is needed to quickly get in load up and get out because construction sites always have a battle between the trades who can get closest to the house.

Most places I can't get a trailer into so a rolloff trailer won't work either some places I have gone the site is so crampt you have to make 100 point turns to turn around and only inches of clearance bettween the trades peoples vehicals.

08-30-2006, 10:17 PM
i'm similar to your situation.

i have a part time job with the longshoreman's union,its not as many hours as i need but the pay is nice.

i have alot of spare time,i putter around for friends who do excavation and if the union calls..i bail.

i'd like to get an older backhoe to do my own thing same as you,to set my own hours,keep busy on my time off etc.and like you again,i don't feel like sinking much into my set up if i can avoid it.

i have to ask you though,with it being a DOT job is it union/non union? seeing as how its public service there's a nice pension in it for you possibly if you can stick it out? run your business on the side,if the housing market cools off,your still employed and can make extra cash on time off.if you quit your job and building slows down you know what could happen.

get your cake and eat it too,work for the government,have the business on the side and get your big fat pension check.

AWJ Services
08-30-2006, 11:21 PM
The best advice I can give is purchase something that will make you money working by yourself without breaking the bank.

An F450 with the suspension upgrade is rated too tow 24k and alot of weight in the back.
A F550 will only get you a few hunderd extra pounds.

F-450 dump with removable high sides.
Skid Steer or a 4x4 tractor equiped with a Grapple and a trailer.
A few attachments and you are there.

Easily doable for less than 70 K US money.
You may struggle for a few years but once the equipment is paid for working it part time while keeping your day job then things will be good.

Screw the rolloffs considering the waste seperation issues.

08-31-2006, 12:42 AM
Why not get a F-450 4x4 flat bed dump with a goosneck hookup, gooseneck roll-off trailer (so you can have a dump trailer or flatbed depending on what you want for the day) and skid steer with grapple & bucket it should be less then $80K US.

Gravel Rat
08-31-2006, 01:16 AM
I'am not going to give up the gov't job for now even thou working with the public drives me bonkers. Yes its a union job the pension isn't that good the cost of living is so high in B.C. people that have retired can't live off the pension. Its the same with the guys that work for the highways dept they can't live off of their company pension either.

The main reason why I want to upgrade to a 99 F-450 instead of dumping money into my current 95 F-450 is the 99s have bigger brakes. The 95 has the same 15,000lb gvw but those 16" wheels limit the size of the brakes. I can put a good load on the 95 but my butt cheeks get a little tight decending hills :laugh:

When I found the spec's on the 99-2002 F-450 and 550 the front axle is the same the frames are the same the brakes are the same the only difference is the 550 has a 135 Dana which is a big rear end and the rear springs are heavier. With the F-450 I could add timbrens and it would probably give me the suspension help for the occasional overload.

I do want to get my foot in the door for disposal business as this area will have alot of house construction maybe 5 years worth. Also the subdivisions that are going in have covenants stating that the owner of the property has to have the property landscaped in a certain time period. There will be some part time work there.

I have been reading alot about hooklift trucks and how handy they are. After doing some checking around they are a pricey hoist I priced out what it would cost me to build a conventional rail hoist. Then I would have to pretty well build my own boxes as most companies only build hooklift boxes in the smaller sizes. Hook Lifts are more common for 1 tons to single axle 5 tons.

Hooklift hoists weigh 1400lbs then add the weight of the box say another 900 to 1000lbs there is approx 2400lbs on the truck before you add payload.

A conventional rail system like the Switch and Go weighs 800lbs at most then add a box 1000lbs.

For me to build a 12x8x4 dumpster box would cost approx 2500 dollars each I would need altleast 2 of them.

For me to put a truck together I'am looking at 30,000 for a decent used truck another 5000 to build a hoist another 5000 to build two roll off boxes. For that kind of money I can find a used tandem axle rolloff know where I can get one for 22,000 dollars.

Reason why I'am asking you guys is a rolloff worth it before I go spend a bunch of money on something that isn't worth it my total investment for a truck is max 35,000 dollars. This is only going to be a sideline business if it turns out to be full time year round then I might expand. For a skid steer I don't want anything new it can be a well worn machine its not going to see alot of hours it will be used to load the truck with debris or load the truck with dirt.

08-31-2006, 03:13 AM
saw this tonight, (while looking for a tandem hooklift) and it might fit your interests


2000 FORD F550, 4x4. Hooklift, steller 12,000lb lift, 9' Fisher plow, ac, exc cond. $32,900.
CALL TOLL FREE:(877) 535-1318

not too close...
Gabrielli Trucks
401 Old Gate Lane
Milford, CT 06460

but maybe they will work a winter special, shipping it around the Horn- When we lived on Thetis Island (west of Vanc BC Airport, off Vanc Island @ Chemanis) they moored a 'north shore' oil rig construction platform (~100m sq) across the bay from our cabin, and flew the crew from Norway, rotating help every 10 days... we would sail over and watch movies in their 'on-board theatre' !! Sunday afternoons. The winch rooms were impressive, especially the one they were rebuilding due to a 3" anchor cable busting in a gale... It kinda wiped things out,

maybe you could get the Ford to 'hitch a ride' on a tug. or... I've had very good luck with 'U-ship.com' Probably would be $800 - $1000 USD if you find a short load (LTL) or 'hot-shot' running west. (probably cheaper than fuel...)

08-31-2006, 04:20 AM
I think you should get a 16 ton excavator w/ thumb

AWJ Services
08-31-2006, 08:17 AM
I have a friend that sold his half of there concrete plant and went into the roll off and tub grinding buisness among other things.
He has 800+ roll offs at 5 grand apeice pluss trucks too haul them.
He has them in 20 yards too 40 yards.
350 dollars for a 30 yard rolloff up to 5 tons worth of thrash.

Roll Offs are big buisness here.

Another local just started his inert landfill.

50 acres 20 foot deep.Line it with inert fill and cover.
Oh yeah he sells the dirt for 125.00 a tandem load.

All the rolloffs dump the trees at the landfill.
Big fines for burying trees now and no burning 6 months a year.
Tree farms (pines) are big in georgia and we are finally reaching all of the Farmland that was planted with pines.
Alot of trees per acre of land.

The guy I know hauls the inert too his own transfer stations and then grinds and seperats the material.
Sales the soil too hyponex and the wood to mead.

Roll offs are big buisness here in Georgia.

In Atlanta there are alot of the smaller hook trucks you speak of.
Houses are alot closer together and need smaller containers.

Gravel Rat
08-31-2006, 03:37 PM
The 40 yard bins are not a big business either because everything has to be sorted you can't just dump everything into one bin. We also are able to burn demo debris in winter.

What I was thinking of with a 1.5 ton rolloff is I could drop off a empty bin at a place where required and I could go to work at my gov't job. After the bin is full go pick it up and dump it. I start at 6am and finish at 2pm so if a customer wanted a bin I could go drop it off day before.

I really don't know if there would be enough profit to justify the extra costs of a rolloff hoist.

I can buy this truck for 65,000 its 2006 F-550 4x4 65,000 dollars CND.


Gravel Rat
08-31-2006, 03:47 PM
To add to the above post I buy the truck for 65,000 dollars plus another 5000 dollars for a two boxes. Total approx cost per month the truck would have to pay for itself would be 1400 dollars per month for the next 5 years.

That truck posted isn't very old I can't figure out why it got traded in and its been at that dealers lot for a long time. I looked up the spec's on the hoist its a single pivot hoist so there is one drawback its also a odd ball hoist Hiab hoists are not that common. A single pivot hoist doesn't work like a dump truck so I would need a truck with dual pivot hoist.

08-31-2006, 11:23 PM
I am certainly not an expert on such things, but it seems to me that the margins on such a business are going to be low. Figuring the outlay of money it seems rather extremely tight. Kinda like the trucking industry, one or two over the road trucks and you can't make a living. Add 100 trucks and the 5% profit margins actually turn some money. One or two containers means two trips to the dump, maybe two per container a day if it can be loaded fast enough. I just don't see making a lot of money at this. You would need numerous containers and spend the day dumping all of them to turn real money. This is my opinion and again I know nothing of you or your situation up there. Just responding to what I have read.

Dirty Water
08-31-2006, 11:53 PM
If you want to make a profit, get the thought that you have to have the absolute best and newest equipment to get started.

I absolutely cannot think of ANY successfull company that started out with all new equipment.

You could cut your overhead easily down to less than $1000 a month if you were more willing to smart small with a slightly used machine.

Take me for example, I want to get into small utility excavation out here, so I priced out a new mini, $51k...I can get a greymarket machine to test the waters first for $10k. If I grow beyond that machine, I'll buy new one,and be able to sell the greymarket machine for $10k again. yet I only have to float a small $250 payment every month. You should apply this concept to your business.

09-01-2006, 01:34 AM
Take me for example, I want to get into small utility excavation out here, so I priced out a new mini, $51k...I can get a greymarket machine to test the waters first for $10k. If I grow beyond that machine, I'll buy new one,and be able to sell the greymarket machine for $10k again. yet I only have to float a small $250 payment every month. You should apply this concept to your business.

to say nothing of the greymarket savings ($40k diff when you most need it) from REQUIRED annual WA State personal property tax (~$15 per thousand in my county), and sales tax (8% on the $40k difference) + additional insurance ~$400/yr. You would expect repairs to be less on the new rig, but.... chances are you'll be buying a few replacement hoses @ $20ea on the grey guy, but.... potentially electronic gadgetry on the newer rig (if you can diagnose it...) $20 won't buy you much in electronics... of course the secret is being the most productive for lowest capital outlay, unfortunately trucking (GR's line of work) is another animal when it comes to creative ways to spend $$ (compliments of the gov + insurance + repairs...)

Gravel Rat
09-01-2006, 02:17 AM
The truck is just part of the work I do but I would like to get into doing small jobs with a skid steer like spreading topsoil or graveling driveways etc. A skid steer won't come right away.

The rolloff truck idea was something I thought about but doing some number crunching I have to spend quite abit more over putting a dumping flatdeck. The rolloff is nicer for hand loading stuff especially when you have heavy stuff like old refrigerators etc.

I'am already a legal trucking company been doing trucking since I was 17 now looking for different service ideas as this area is becoming a large retirement village. More and more rich people moving in building 3000-4000 square ft homes for summer cabins. Landscape the front yard they are willing to spend 70,000 dollars or more. When you spend couple million on a summer house they don't care what it costs to do the landscaping :laugh:

Pretty well most of Southern B.C. people from Alberta are buying houses and property they are spending 1.2 million dollars for a piece of property. They will spend another million to build a house. Alberta is making money hand over fist because of the oil demand. Labourers from the oil fields make 8 grand a month you can work in McDonalds and make 16 dollars per hour flipping burgers. They consider a 1 million dollar house cheap its pocket change.

To buy a house in the popular places you pretty well have to make a annual wage of 100,000 a year to afford a basic house oh ya I'am no where near that.

If I can get part time hauling away debris from reno's and doing general landscaping again I can easily charge 25 dollars per hour for labour and 100 dollars per hour for the truck. A friend of mine says he charges 25 dollars per hour to rake leaves or any kind of labour.

I may stick with a dumping flatdeck I can get a new 11' mason dump with fold down sides for 4500 dollars.

I do have to find a truck first I found a few F-450s and F-550s but they have the wrong wheelbase one truck I found the wheelbase is too long. I'am not sure if you can shorten the frame easily on the newer trucks.

09-01-2006, 03:04 AM
It seems as though your trying to create a justification for a F450 or 550. You may want to remember that form follows function. If your plan requires such a vehicle then great but it seems like it is the corner stone of what your wanting to do. A pickup is not going to make you money no matter what you put in the back of it. Picking up garbage for rich people is not going to make you rich (generally). Landscaping without equipment will make you very tired. A more productive thought process might include equipment purchases that you could make which would allow you to make money landscaping or excavating. Speaking for myself, I didn't really care what I used to pull my equipment with or what kind truck I bought. Actually I happened to be driving an 1984 K-30 so that was my tow rig for the first 4 years. I have always been more concerned with the iron that I put in the field. That is where you will make money if it is there to be made. Your stepping over a dollar to pickup a dime IMHO.

Gravel Rat
09-01-2006, 03:55 AM
I'am going to buy a F-450 or F-550 anyhow I'am not trying to justify that because I can go back to doing P+D and lumber delivery. There is always work hauling but I'am looking at different options. Getting a foot in the disposal business is one of the options but if a rolloff system and boxes is too costly then I will keep hauling junk like I have for the last 14 years.

As for landscaping for me would be rough in work and clearing brush and tree removal get back into falling trees. Most of this area is woods so peoples back yards are usually wooded areas they want cleared out. New laws that are going to be enforced is no residential burning so any green material like trees etc has to be taken to the landfill. No fee's for green material at the landfill just costs money to get it there.

A tracked skid would work probably the best of the conditions I work in which is mainly dirt and on slopes and rough terrian. Sad to say a tracked skid is out of my budget.

There are too many guys now with mini excavators there is too many for the amount of work. Everybody jumped on the lets buy a mini and go excavating band wagon.

09-01-2006, 12:44 PM
the mini excavator buying spree trend will die soon.

a 450/550 and a skid steer picking up garbage i can't see how it'll work,for the very minimal you'll end up getting,you'll have very high overhead.new equipment is nice but older equipment does the same job just as well.

09-01-2006, 04:00 PM
...The rolloff truck idea was something I thought about but doing some number crunching I have to spend quite abit more over putting a dumping flatdeck. ... I'am already a legal trucking company ...now looking for different service ideas as this area is becoming a large retirement village. More and more rich people moving in building 3000-4000 square ft homes for summer cabins. ... They consider a 1 million dollar house cheap its pocket change....If I can get part time hauling away debris from reno's and doing general landscaping again I can easily charge 25 dollars per hour for labour and 100 dollars per hour for the truck. A friend of mine says he charges 25 dollars per hour to rake leaves or any kind of labour.

I may stick with a dumping flatdeck I can get a new 11' mason dump with fold down sides for 4500 dollars... I'am not sure if you can shorten the frame easily on the newer trucks. - frame shortening should be no problem, for right price...

Maybe you can get really creative.... (I'm straining my mind to think of econo 'roll-off' solution) I'm in a similar area ''rural turning to rich urban'' . (current trend most everywhere...) I have turned down lots of 'minimal-hauling' jobs due to lacking a decent dump truck. (mine is a beater) Most are folks with a pile of brush bigger than their SUV. (or they wouldn't think of scratching their new pickup.):rolleyes: the new 'urban-rural' dweller is really clueless on some 'basic' skills that most of us grew up with (going to the dump), nor would they consider such activities. No wonder there are so many 'service' jobs, 'assisting' the 'entitlement-generation'. (we used to think 'babies' and 'seniors' were needy...)

It is gonna be really tough to make a living running around hauling small qtys of junk, especially if YOU have to hand load, (fuel and time costs) but... have ~10 econo (small ~5-15yd) 'drop boxes', and a cheap skid with grapple - I can see a niche :) since most drop boxes are 20-40yd and too big (+$$$) for homeowner not doing full remodel. Most Yuppie types can actually load the box if you set in on their driveway (and they could feel 'important':dancing:

maybe having a trailer that would hold 2 -4 of the boxes (or your skid) + 1 - 2 drop boxes on truck, and you could consolidate trips, strategically leaving boxes in locations. (probably your customers would not be too close together, if you wanted them to be...)

If you are thinking this way... I would consider a 'hybrid' drop box sytem (I.E. you will have to invent) Or use the 'smaller' 'trash style (forks to dump) something in between might be just the ticket, so... think of where you can get some cheap HD boxes ~8x10 or 8'x5' (Maybe cutting 40 yd into 3rds?) but I don't think that would be cheap. Unfortunately you would need hook-lift system to place box on trailer, so... that would run up intial expense, but might be $$ well spent. The loaded boxes would not usually be too heavy, as they are typically for branches, or carpet / furniture / plastic yard stuff

for skid, I would consider renting for weekend on the few jobs required, possibly you can partner with a contractor who doesn't work weekends, and offer to do his maint and buy him a grapple attach. + combo bucket. (that is considering you are doing this 'part-time' for now.)

best option... get a gov job working eve / nights, and do this on the side. Friends of mine do this (firemen, and state hwy worker + power utility guys) They often get retirement, a premium wage for working eve + health benefits (~$1500/month in US if you pay your own !!) as gov workers they are on a very regimented time schedule (thus they are not flying all over the world or having to change their hours) and they can go to work tired, (after a tough day working for yourself) because it is a piece of cake job.:cool2:

good luck

(check out some of the 'rendering' boxes and lift mechanisms, similar size and weight)

think = productivity (How can I invest as little time and $$ for most return)

Gravel Rat
09-01-2006, 04:45 PM
I'am not buying anything new a good used truck is worth 25,000 dollars I bought a truck that is 15,000 it was good for a year and now its costing me money. Buying a old used worn out truck isn't worth it it costs too much to repair I have been there done that.

I'am looking for a F-450 with 100,000 kms (62,000 miles) so I will have to be willing to pay atleast 25,000 for a cab and chassis. If I start buying a truck with 200,000kms or more I'am gauranteed to be replacing.

Suspension rebuild
Cooling system

My current truck needs cooling system repairs so I'am looking at minimum 200 dollars, transmission is worn out another 3000 dollars, front suspension needs replacing 2000 dollars, steering box is going so more repairs 1000 dollars for a steering box.

So far I have spent 350 for a new fuel pump another 200 for a CPS for the PSD a serpentine fanbelt another 100 dollars. Replaced the steer tires when I got the truck another 700 dollars.

The garbage hauling is only part of what I do If I make 100-200 dollars a day I would be happy for 2 to 4 hours worth of work. There is one subdivision going in its projected to take up to 10 years to complete all 40 houses.

Another part of the west coast one subdivision is projected to build 350 houses don't know if thats going to happen or not.

It all depends on if the housing market continues if it crashes then we the area will be back to starving for jobs. Construction is all year round here same with landscaping usually fall things pick up because summer time is used to take a break.

Like I meantioned money is no issue with some of these houses one of my last rubbish removal jobs hauling debris away from a construction site was around 1000 dollars for couple days for 2 months.

This isn't like the East Coast where you guys struggle to make money. Like meantioned labour rate is 20 dollars per hour for picking up debris. Trucking is 50 per hour for a 1 ton truck a tandem axle dump is 80 per hour.

Gravel Rat
09-01-2006, 05:50 PM
Most demo removal jobs are hand load some jobs have taken me 4 hours to load the truck on account of how rough the site is. Its all by the hour if it takes me 4 hours to load the truck its a extra 100 dollars.

The way building sites are here its not like you can drive to the front door of these house. Alot of times there is barely enough room for me to get backed in load up the truck and go.

On reno jobs and basement clean outs etc one of those plastic trash cans is your best friend for carrying junk up flights of stairs or around houses.

A good mini excavator might be a better investment over a skid steer. A mini excavator with a good bucket and thumb can reach and grab stuff where as a skid steer can only reach so far. When your trying to load knarly tree branches or bramble bushes that have frigging thorns that rip your skin open its a biatch to get it onto a truck that the deck is 4' off the ground.

With a mini I can do other jobs like clearing srub brush and light excavating alot of the work that is done by hand. The mini doesn't need to be in mint shape just aslong as the tracks stay on and it has a hydraulic thumb its good enough. The machine has to have regular excavator controls on yankem sticks.

To start I need a truck thou as meantioned probably the easiest to put on the truck would be a dump for now.

09-01-2006, 06:46 PM
This isn't like the East Coast where you guys struggle to make money. Like meantioned labour rate is 20 dollars per hour for picking up debris. Trucking is 50 per hour for a 1 ton truck a tandem axle dump is 80 per hour.

we struggle to make money?

Gravel Rat
09-01-2006, 08:13 PM
What I meant is the East Coast's economy isn't smoking busy and you guys probably don't have houses selling in your neighbourhood for 1.2 million and water front properties selling for 1.7 million.

Building contractors pretty much can name their price same with any other tradesman in Alberta its worse.

09-01-2006, 08:51 PM
there are million dollar homes,just the cost of living between our 2 areas is much much different.i can buy a brand new 3 bedroom bungaloo for under $150,000 on 1 acre of land,your area i'm not shure on rates.

when you see C&D waste its mostly large roll offs,the guys with the trucks are just junk men with no real accounts.

one guy localy who is a junk man also does small demo and interior gutting on renovations,i was looking at that myself for small in and out jobs but its too little money for such intensive labor work not to mention the dust and unknown things you breathe in even with a mask.

09-03-2006, 06:48 PM
I wanted to do the same thing for a long time. I built a mini roll off with a f-450 a 15K dump kit for a flat bed and a 8k ramsey winch. For the rails I used 2x8x.250 wall. It is really not that hard and if you buy the winch used you can do it for minimal investment.

The Dump I bought new for $1500.00 the winch I already had the rest was time and steel.

The boxes are what is going to be hard to come up with. I built my own and that is a mistake! Buy them used if you can, new if you can't. Your estimate for $2500.00 is pretty close. I think it cost me about $2800.00 for mine. You can buy them for $3100.00 new around here and it is worth it! It takes way more time than you think.

You just have to come up with a decent truck. Maybe you can make yours work untill you get some work lined up. Then as you start to make some money you can upgrade to a better truck and use your old one for a backup.

When you get built up, try to get the hook lift. It is a lot faster and you don't even have to get out to load a box. I have a stellar on a f-450 now and it is much easier you don't have to line up rails and all your boxes can be made to work on both a rolloff and a hook.


Gravel Rat
09-04-2006, 01:42 AM
Its still in the back of my mind for now we sort of see a slow down in the realestate market. The house construction is busy but these guys are trying to finish up contracts from last year as last year was really busy so the the building contractors are a little behind.

I don't want to go invest a bunch of money and this realestate boom decides to crash. Right now I'am living off of the part time job I have with the gov't its relativly guaranteed work. Its not what I want to do but I can't quit it either as there really isn't anything that is full time and pays more than what I make from the gov't. I can't live off of 16 dollars per hour I make about 20 per hour with the gov't.

Fixing up my current truck really isn't a option the cost of parts would make quite a few payments on a newer truck. To fix the current problem I'am having is steering box and king pins I'am looking at 2500-3000 dollars.

The reason for me wanting to build a conventional hoist is I can do it myself so there is some savings. As for boxes I was thinking of finding old used truck decks cut the long sills out make them wider and deeper for a rolloff. Then I would build a frame out of angle iron and use 3/4" plywood for sides its all what the one disposal company in the area uses for their hooklift. Even old dump boxes off of muni trucks they have 10' lowside boxes modify the sills and put couple rollers on the back.

Only one company in the area that has a hooklift I seen it try pick up a heavy box and it struggles. With a hooklift your trying to pull a box aboard pretty much from the top of the box.

I have ran conventional hoist alot you line up the rails hook the box and pull. Yes you have to be square to the box so it pulls on square I have had a 40 yard bin jump off the rails. With the truck I plan on building would only use upto 12' box which would be a piece of cake to pull on. A conventional hoist has more power its power to weight ratio is far better.

The 40 yard bins can be a little scary at times you got a huge bin up in the air and yes I have had a few tense moments. Some of the bins the company have are pretty ratty the sills under the bins are bent the boxes were tweaked.

A hooklift is a pretty pricey investment makes me nervous spending 15-20 grand for a hoist. That would take a long time to pay for itself where as I can build a conventional hoist considerably cheaper and it will weigh less.

Couple years ago there was a 95 F-Superduty with a conventional rail hoist forsale not locally but in Vancouver the guy didn't want to sell the hoist just the truck. I bugged the guy if he would sell the hoist he said its way too handy to let go. The truck was well worn they were looking for a newer F-450 to put the hoist on.

Have to see what happens with our economy here before I pull a Scag and sink myself into debt :laugh:

09-04-2006, 08:07 PM
How do you plan to "wait and see what happens with the economy"? You've been talking about buying another truck for over a year now and still haven't done it. The work isn't going to come knocking on your door. Get going or you're going to lose another year before you know it.

Gravel Rat
09-05-2006, 02:22 AM
I'am not going to rush into buying a another lemon of a truck if a good truck turns up then I will buy it. I'am not going to spend 50 grand on a new truck its not worth it.

When I find a truck then I will start digging for work untill then I'am trying to decide what body system I want to put on the truck.

I originally thought about buying a tandem axle dump but after doing some number crunching its borderline profit. If I stay with a 1.5 ton truck then I can stick with landscaping part time. To live in my area you need to be a Jack of all trades where you need to do a little bit of everything not just one thing.