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View Full Version : Looked at a paver driveway estimate


BSDeality
09-03-2006, 11:11 PM
I went and looked at a paver driveway estimate the other day. they current driveway is >25yrs old and failing, they want to replace the parking/turning area of the driveway with pavers and make it wider to improve manuevering. There is a 295' access driveway up to the area that is to be pavers which will be contracted out to another company (repaved) so I will meet the access with an apron.

There is actually quite a bit of work to be done before any install work can be started. The access will be repaved too. They want to move a 45' section fieldstone wall over about 2' to lessen the curve in the driveway and then further up there is a 80'-100' section of boulders that have to be moved back to make the driveway wider.

At the main area of the driveway they want to eliminate another stone wall all together, 65' of boulders, stones need to be removed. the wall is about 4' thick and 4' high on average. (section outlined in red in the third picture) Anyone want to buy some boulders? :hammerhead:

After the wall is removed there will be some grading done to change the small hill to allow access to the lawn (currently the guy has to trespass to get onto one section of his property to mow it). The other reason for removing the wall is to widen the driveway by 5' to allow greater manuevering area.

What are some things I should think about for this install? The electric/phone is currently run underground and definitely comes right through the driveway at some point, so I will CBYD and have it marked. Do you guys have the power turned off for a day while you do the base prep? I will have to strip blacktop, remove existing base and then replace the base.

I'm thinking 12" of base on top of geogrid, which I will set with a lazer and a Komatsu 6way dozer. Total area is around 1500sqft+. I was planning on renting a roller to compact the base in 4" lifts (too much at once?) and using my plate compacter for small areas and the 26' walkway that will be done also. I've done a ~1000sq ft patio at my house around the pool, but its a little different than a driveway install and I'm just looking for some words of advice.

Thanks, Matt

Dirty Water
09-03-2006, 11:21 PM
Your going to want a skidsteer to excavate that, not a dozer, in my opinion. There is going to be a lot of debris to load and remove.

As far as crossing power, if its to code, you won't hit it. Just hand dig across the locates (and 2' on either side) down to your depth in one place. If you find it, then your going to have a lot of hand digging, if you don't, then 95% chance you will be fine using the machine across the locate marks everywhere else. I've done this with hundreds (Perhaps over a thousand?) locates without ever hitting one. What you may find, in my experience, is a cable tv line thats super shallow. It may be cheaper to throw a sleeve in the base and have the cable guys reroute the line through it, instead of trying to save it if its just barely under the blacktop.

I'm not following why you want to use geogrid beneath the base. Geogrid is not a soil seperation fabric, its simply to improve the holding strength on slopes, or to tie into walls. Since your not really on a slope, I don't see the purpose.

BSDeality
09-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Sorry, I meant Geotextile, not geogrid. You would still want to use geotextile as a soil seperator, no?

We are planning on putting a sleeve in for the dog fence which is currently unused but they want to have it put in anyway.

I was planning on using a big skid for removing and then replacing base, but the dozer for grade work. I suppose I could do w/o the dozer though.

Mike33
09-04-2006, 12:02 AM
I dont do pavers but know the work involved, what is this going to price out at? I think a skid steer might do a better job also. Good luck to you.
Mike

YardPro
09-04-2006, 07:26 AM
ditto on the dozer being overkill...
will take less time with a skid or mini ex.

a ride on roller or a big walk behind can compact 6" lifts.

geogrid is always good. it's like cheap insurance... and for $.07/sqft...

cedarcroft
09-04-2006, 09:46 AM
I am on LI NY. I need boulders for a job I am doing. what size are the boulders and how much would you want for them?
PM me. I will gladly come there with my dumptruck and take them off your hands.

DVS Hardscaper
09-04-2006, 09:54 AM
"What are some things I should think about for this install? "

To answer ur question -

#1 - do you have the qualifications / experience to do the task?

#2 - And why do you fee this way?



No dozer is needed, guys.

Mike33
09-04-2006, 10:36 AM
"What are some things I should think about for this install? "

To answer ur question -

#1 - do you have the qualifications / experience to do the task?

#2 - And why do you fee this way?



No dozer is needed, guys.
I know you are a paver guy and of course im not. But correct me if im wrong isnt doing a paver sidewalk then jumping to a paver driveway really going big league?
Mike

BSDeality
09-04-2006, 10:07 PM
I am on LI NY. I need boulders for a job I am doing. what size are the boulders and how much would you want for them?
PM me. I will gladly come there with my dumptruck and take them off your hands.I'll let you know how the proposal goes, if they bite you can have them cheap. They're anywhere from 3"x3"x3" upto 12"x12"x12". some possibly larger. I'll need them outta there anyways.

DVS,
1 +2.) yes, I put in my ~1K sqft unilock patio around my pool a couple years ago. It was my first paver experience, I learned a lot from that install. Doing a driveway is similar I'd imagine ("similar" being the reason I was asking for some pointers or if I'd forgotten anything). I've been waiting, hoping for another paver job and this felll into my lap.

jdsnowremoval
09-04-2006, 10:59 PM
I'll let you know how the proposal goes, if they bite you can have them cheap. They're anywhere from 3"x3"x3" upto 12"x12"x12". some possibly larger. I'll need them outta there anyways.

DVS,
1 +2.) yes, I put in my ~1K sqft unilock patio around my pool a couple years ago. It was my first paver experience, I learned a lot from that install. Doing a driveway is similar I'd imagine ("similar" being the reason I was asking for some pointers or if I'd forgotten anything). I've been waiting, hoping for another paver job and this felll into my lap.

Just remember with the driveway...unlike the patio there needs to be alot more base and it needs to be packed extremly well, remember not just cars will be on this driveway, if they ever get anything delivered in a truck etc it puts alot of pressure on the the paved area. Just the FYI because i know a local guy who thought he went deep enough with the base and thought it was packed enough and it ended up sinking where the cars ran over. I would rent a roller, when we do our driveways everything is packed with a roller unlike our patios where we use a packer.

BSDeality
09-04-2006, 11:09 PM
....
I'm thinking 12" of base on top of geogrid ... Total area is around 1500sqft+. I was planning on renting a roller to compact the base in 4" lifts (too much at once?) and using my plate compacter for small areas and the 26' walkway that will be done also.

Most residential driveways call for 8"-10" base if i recall correctly. I am a firm believer in overkill on the base, especially around here with 25-36K lb oil, septic trucks coming in.

DVS Hardscaper
09-05-2006, 09:05 AM
Our paver jobs that are intended for vehicular use have a 12-inch aggregate base. A couple more inches is only a few hundred extra dollars - a.k.a: Cheap insurance.


Also, pavers do NOT use "geo-grid". I believe what you are referring to is 'Geo-textile' fabric, which is used to prevent the base material from intermixing with the sub-soil. See, geo-grid is a whole different product that is used to prevent segmental retaining walls from kicking forward.

Its important to know the correct terminology. Cause if you state in your proposal / contract that you're going to use "geo-grid" - then the customer will be looking for GEO-GRID, and may decide not to pay you, which they CAN get away with!

BSDeality
09-05-2006, 10:35 AM
Our paver jobs that are intended for vehicular use have a 12-inch aggregate base. A couple more inches is only a few hundred extra dollars - a.k.a: Cheap insurance.


Also, pavers do NOT use "geo-grid". I believe what you are referring to is 'Geo-textile' fabric, which is used to prevent the base material from intermixing with the sub-soil. See, geo-grid is a whole different product that is used to prevent segmental retaining walls from kicking forward.

Its important to know the correct terminology. Cause if you state in your proposal / contract that you're going to use "geo-grid" - then the customer will be looking for GEO-GRID, and may decide not to pay you, which they CAN get away with!we already covered this mixup. I'm so sorry I was exhausted when I posted it that I used the incorrect suffix. Please forgive me.:sleeping:

excalibur
09-05-2006, 05:18 PM
Actually geo-grid can be used in soil stabilization applications similar to what the original poster stated - I have seen it in heavy civil applications. I can't imagine using a dozer in the size described - a skid steer seems to the be the way to go.

chesie
09-05-2006, 06:43 PM
As excalibur said- Geo GRID is used all the time to reinforce base materials for roads and drives. Get off your high horse DVS!

forestfireguy
09-05-2006, 08:06 PM
Are there any drainage issues? Forgive me I did not look at pics, also did I misunderstand or are you preparing base for the asphalt part of the driveway as well? If so why?

BSDeality
09-05-2006, 09:32 PM
no major drainage issues to speak of, existing driveway pitches away from the house. I will be putting in some underground drainage for a leader on the high side of the driveway.

BSDeality
09-14-2006, 03:36 PM
I'm wrapping up this estimate for the folks and just want to double check something...

3/4 proc runs about 1.5tons/yd correct?

that is the assumption I made when calculating the base. and as it stand the base will run about 105 tons

scraper69
09-16-2006, 06:44 AM
Let me know how you price this job... sounds pretty big. How late in the season are you gonna do it?

BSDeality
09-16-2006, 08:18 AM
i met with them last night, showed them my design and they're going to think about it this weekend. Originally it was going to be scheduled in October, however as of last night they think they might push it to the spring. Personally I would rather do it in october due to my schedule being a little lighter unless I drop spring cleanups and mowing like I was considering.

How do you handle situations like this? She sounded pretty sure they were going to wait until the spring and said she would like to "make sure she is first on the list". What would an acceptable deposit be?

edit, as for pricing, I figured out all my materials and rental of a skid and roller vib. compactor (already have a small plate compactor) and then went from there.

scraper69
09-17-2006, 07:41 AM
Get a few hundred deposit. That locks them in!!

BSDeality
09-17-2006, 10:55 AM
just a few hundred? that would be less than 1% of the job and would seem like a small price to pay if they wanted to go with someone else for some reason.

Dirty Water
09-17-2006, 11:18 AM
I doubt they will take you.

They were probably surprised at the price, and can't afford it, so they will push it back to spring.

Sometime between now and then, they will call and cancel.

Next time you stop by, its going to be done by someone else.

scraper69
09-17-2006, 11:36 AM
that may be the case,but here's how you find out if theyre serious. I personally wouldnt put up a $100 for a deposit if I was unsure of doing the job, so if they give you $300 youre in. And if they cancel, well they're out 300.00. Just have them sign the contract, no refund on deposits.

AztlanLC
09-17-2006, 03:50 PM
10% down
Even if you don't get the job think in taking couple clasess over the winter to tackle this or other upcoming jobs, I would recommend ICPI certification.
Specially since the area that will be done on pavers is where they will turn the most.
The patter and size of pavers will affect the overall job.
Pay special attention to the area coming out from the garage it will receive more impact force and needs to be deeper at that point or install a concrete pad underneath the base

BSDeality
09-17-2006, 07:30 PM
I am planning on getting ICPI cert'd this winter, there is a semi-local course in November which I might take if I can squeeze it in; otherwise I will fly somewhere and make a mini-vacation out of it. The paver I picked out is Unilock Stonehedge, its their taller stone (3" versus 2 & 3/8").

10% seems a bit more logical to me. a $100 deposit isn't worth anything on a project that will be nearly $40K. On a project like this it seems logical to do 40% upfront, 30% after the base + screeding is done and final 30% after completion.

Green-Pro
09-17-2006, 09:25 PM
Few hundred on a major $ project is nothing. 1/3 down, 1/3 when half completed, 1/3 when done. Seems to me if they are serious about the project and locking down the "first in line spot" for next spring they would not balk at paying.

We use the 1/3 as S.O.P. but will occasionally collect 1/2 up front and 1/2 upon completion for smaller jobs and jobs requiring some items to be done in stages.

AztlanLC
09-18-2006, 08:09 AM
Unilock stonehege (12x12) is considered a slab under ICPI specifications, due to the aspect ratio and not recommende it for driveways.
I have seen driveways made out of this paver with no problems tough, just something you might like to consider.
The 12 x 6 and 6 x 6 are acceptable under their theory.

BSDeality
09-18-2006, 08:48 PM
they make stonehedge in 12x12, 6x12 and 6x6.

I also spoke with the HO today, they are now talking with an architect about adding another garage onto the house. So nothing is going to happen to late spring or summer at the absolute earliest.