Oil filter came loose, engine ran out of oil!!

[k12lts]

I bought a used Exmark HP with the Kawasaki 23hp engine three weeks ago and the dealer serviced the engine just before he delivered it. We have only put 10 hours on the machine and Saturday just after we started mowing, the engine pulled down and stopped. We looked at the engine and noticed it was covered with oil around and below the filter. The filter was loose and all the oil had pumped out. We let it cool down for a few hours and tightened the filter, added new oil and the engine started and sounds fine. I drove it around to the shop and shut it off and it was leaking oil again. The filter was loose again. This time when I tried to tighten the filter I noticed the threads were stripped.

The dealer installed the filter and I trust the mechanic. Did he get a filter with bad threads? I'm sure he;'s changed thousands of them, I don't think he would overthighten it.

Does the engine have a low oil shut off?

Did this damage the engine?

The machine is a little over one year old and has 210 hours, it's still under warranty.

[TLS]

Sounds like he put a Kohler filter on your Kawi engine. Threads are different.

I would have taken a LOT of pictures, and he would be putting on a new engine if it was my mower.

[MarcSmith]

I would think you'd be in the market for a new oil filter adapter at the very least

I guess you can consider yourself lucky.

Is it possible that oil filter bottomed out on the threads as opposed to bottoming out on the rubber gasket and when it was over tightened the threads got stripped. Which means the filter was tightened by a wrench and not by hand...

once the filter snugs up on the gasket, worst case it 1/4-1/2 turn more and then leave it be.



How much grass did you end killing... from all of the oil...

[khouse]

im afraid that your engine has internal damage that will show up in the future.

[k12lts]

The dealer gave me a new oil filter to try and when I took the other one off I compared numbers, they are different. The one the shop put on was for a Honda and the threads are different. The engine sounds fine now but I'm concerned about future damage. What do you think?

Does anyone know if this engine has a low oil shut down system? I put two quarts in before I started it the first time and drove it 100' to the shop and it was leaking again but still running. When I changed the filter today it took 1.5 quarts to fill it up. It only holds two quarts.

[TLS]

I'd be wanting a brand new engine.

They're mess-up, not yours.

[MarcSmith]

The dealer gave me a new oil filter to try and when I took the other one off I compared numbers, they are different. The one the shop put on was for a Honda and the threads are different. The engine sounds fine now but I'm concerned about future damage. What do you think?

Does anyone know if this engine has a low oil shut down system? I put two quarts in before I started it the first time and drove it 100' to the shop and it was leaking again but still running. When I changed the filter today it took 1.5 quarts to fill it up. It only holds two quarts.

I'd hate to force the dealer into anything, but it does sound like their screw up. if the kawi has a low oil shut-off, i doubt any damage was done. get a compression and leak down test done and compare it to a brand new or very low hour model/ Drop the pan and look to see if you have any metal in the bottom of the pan... and check for play int he crank/rod

The fact the engine was run out of oil, whether your fault or the dealrs, the engine warranty is done, gone, kaput....

I would not ask the dealer for a new engine right off, I would ask that any abnormal engine wear issues or strange sounds that arise be covered by the dealer. up until 2K hours....Get it in writing...

If the dealer scoffs at this, then you need to contact kawasaki and let them know that they have a dealer who can't service their engine properly.

To put ona filter with the wrong threads, They had to be ham fisted to put it on... and not realize that something was wrong...

[k12lts]

I just got off the phone with Kawasaki, they provide an oil pressure switch that will turn on a light but the Exmark does not have one. This motor does not have a low oil shut down. This tells me the engine seized when it ran out of oil but started when it cooled.

I haven't had the conversation with the dealer yet but I had also thought about the dealer providing an extended warranty on the engine in writing.

I've got about two hours of mowing to do tonight, I'll let you know what happens.

[MarcSmith]

If the engine comes with a low oil pressure switch, it would be possible for it to be wired to a engine shut-off switch by Exmark....rather than to a light...
as part of the wiring harnes from exmark. If it was running then came to a screaching halt, then you probably have some metal transfer. I guess you need to find out from Exmark if they wire up the oil pressure sender in their harness.

[k12lts]

I hope that's the case, but I added 1.5 qts to an engine that only holds 2 qts when I changed the filter today and it was still running when I parked it.

[dcondon]

I hope that's the case, but I added 1.5 qts to an engine that only holds 2 qts when I changed the filter today and it was still running when I parked it.

You had better be talking with them and getting a new motor. Just wait a little time down the road and your going to wish you had. thats going to give you problems. JMO:nono:

[olyman]

as the others said--if the engine siezes--then restarts when cold--metal went from rod to crank--and it wont be long now--cause for it to sieze--it was hot around the journal--may have even blued the crank journal--not good

[olderthandirt]

You can't just walk in a demand a new engine an expect a dealer to give you one. [Although we all wish it was that simple] If you can have the dealer give you an extended warrenty with 1 extra provision, 3 times for engine service do to anything that low oil could have damaged and he provides a new one free would be fair to both. And a lot easy to get.

[dcondon]

You can't just walk in a demand a new engine an expect a dealer to give you one. [Although we all wish it was that simple] If you can have the dealer give you an extended warrenty with 1 extra provision, 3 times for engine service do to anything that low oil could have damaged and he provides a new one free would be fair to both. And a lot easy to get.


That all depends on who you have for a dealer!!!!

[olderthandirt]

That all depends on who you have for a dealer!!!!

Please tell me a dealer that will give away a $1500 engine with no problems. This is not a warrenty issue so he's gonna eat the cost. Remember the engine is running as of this post and theres no "proof" that there is any damage, and the dealer has never admitted or seen evidence that it was his fault.

[steve45]

The dealer's mechanic screwed up and damaged your engine. They owe you a replacement engine. Since your engine only had a couple hundred hours, I would demand a NEW engine. They should carry insurance to cover stuff like this, so if they grumble, tell them it's cheaper that a lawsuit. If nothing else, INSIST that they tear the engine down completely and let you see the inside. Pay special attention to the main bearings, rod bearings, cylinder, cam, etc.

[MarcSmith]

Please tell me a dealer that will give away a $1500 engine with no problems. This is not a warrenty issue so he's gonna eat the cost. Remember the engine is running as of this post and theres no "proof" that there is any damage, and the dealer has never admitted or seen evidence that it was his fault.


I though the dealer admitted that they put an oil filter for a honda engine and screwed the threads up thus not letting it stay tight....

[TLS]

This wouldn't happen to a GOOD dealer in the first place....however if it DID, they should immediately step to the plate and replace it, and cover any expenses you incurred related to the oil spill.

But obviously, this didn't happen. K12lts needs to let the dealer know of his expectations. It won't cost the dealer $1500 for a 23 Kawi.

[olderthandirt]

This wouldn't happen to a GOOD dealer in the first place....however if it DID, they should immediately step to the plate and cover any expenses you incurred related to the oil spill replace it,

But obviously, this didn't happen. K12lts needs to let the dealer know of his expectations. It won't cost the dealer $1500 for a 23 Kawi.

I agree with this. and it will be a lot easier to get than walking in saying I demand a new engine. The other engine is still running with no proof of damage.
You could take it to another shop have them tear it down immediately and document damage from it running out of oil. Then go back on the original dealer and try and have him cover any expenses you incurred related to the oil spill. It was not a new engine when you bought it and he's under no obligation to replace it with a new engine.

And since you took the filter off and went back to get another one all he has is your word that the other filter was not the correct one.

You will have a hard time proving that it was his fault [even in court] and if you do it will have cost you as much as a replacement engine. I stand behind my earlier statement. Try and get the extended warranty with the provision that if the engine needs service for low oil problems 3 times or 2 times THEN the dealer will replace it.

[J&R Landscaping]

I would let the shop pull the sump and cylinder heads off to inspect it for any damage. (theres going to be some but just how major will it be?) If anything, I would ask them to shortblock the engine. That will give you a new internal engine as they should not be responsible for things like the carb and flywheel as running the engine out of oil had little if any effect on theese parts. JMO Good Luck!!

[k12lts]

I talked to the dealer today and took in the oil filter that they had installed. He admitted they made the mistake and offered to take care of repairs. Since the machine is still running, he agreed to bring it to the shop this fall, tear down the engine to see the damage and install a new short block.

I had full confidence in the dealer to do the right thing. He never once tried to back out or make excusses and I'm glad I bought the machine there.

Thanks for all the advice and I'm glad everything seems to be working out.

[J&R Landscaping]

Replacing the shortblock is an appropriate remedy for both you and the dealer. Are you still going to continue to do business there? I know I would continue!

[k12lts]

Yes, I still plan on doing business there. He stood up and did the right thing without hesitation so I will remain a good customer.

[olderthandirt]

Yes, I still plan on doing business there. He stood up and did the right thing without hesitation so I will remain a good customer.

The dealer went above and beyond, congrats on having problem fixed. Remember the customer service when you have to pay a few $$$ more at his place than wal-mart :drinkup:

[fixer67]

If the engine comes with a low oil pressure switch, it would be possible for it to be wired to a engine shut-off switch by Exmark....rather than to a light...
as part of the wiring harnes from exmark. If it was running then came to a screaching halt, then you probably have some metal transfer. I guess you need to find out from Exmark if they wire up the oil pressure sender in their harness.

Yes but not the way you may think. Most pressure switches are CLOSED when there is no pressure and OPEN when the pressure comes up. This type can simply be wired to ground out the engine when you lose oil pressure. I just a few weeks back had to wire up a oil pressure switch on a Kaw and found out the pressure switch on it was backward from what I was use to. The switch on this Kaw was OPEN when the pressure was zero and CLOSED to ground when the pressure came up. The fuel solenoid on the carb was the two wire type so I ran the ground wire from the solenoid to the oil pressure switch. When starting the engine the oil pressure comes up and grounds the switch and the fuel solenoid opens and the engines starts. If pressure is lost the oil pressure switch opens and the fuel solenoid shuts off killing the engine.And no, there is no delay for the oil pressure to build up when starting the engine. I could have wired a relay into the system to invert the switch signal and ground out the engine to kill it but this way was easier for me. The point being of all this is to make sure your oil pressure switch is a Nominally Open or Nominally Close type. You have a pressure switch there so find a way to use it.
And by the way if I remember right it was an Exmark that I was working on.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Congratulations Fixer67 on your 1000th post :clapping: :drinkup:

[dcondon]

Please tell me a dealer that will give away a $1500 engine with no problems. This is not a warrenty issue so he's gonna eat the cost. Remember the engine is running as of this post and theres no "proof" that there is any damage, and the dealer has never admitted or seen evidence that it was his fault.

Sorry to tell ya Mac but our dealer would!!!!!!!!! If you don't beleive me ask Wriken.