PDA

View Full Version : P.O.S employee...one of my good friends


jim163
09-05-2006, 11:54 AM
This is my second year mowing lawns. last year i had 6 lawns this year i have allmost 60. I originally planned to do all the work myself as just getting started out. one of my good friends was looking for a job early in the season and he had experience so I figured I'll take every lawn I can because I'll have someone working with me. turns out hes worthless and I need to stop working with him. He absolutly drags ass. when i stop and get out of my truck to unload the z, hell sit in the truck 30 seconds longer. Complains constantly about the ***** yards with alot of wackin....THATS YOUR JOB DO IT. NEVER WAKES UP ON TIME. i like waking up at 8 being at first job 8:30. he usually gets up at 9:30 or so and if i call his phone 14 times in a row it doesnt matter. very frusterating. now that I have 60 lawns I cant do them myself and im stuck with this kid. I do what i can without him but Its faster with 2 people. Its just frusterating I cant wait till plowing season. NEVER WORK WITH FRIENDS. I need employess i can take a whip to.

MarcSmith
09-05-2006, 12:18 PM
I need employess i can take a whip to.

thats the quickest wayto breed contempt among your employee's and get even less work out of them.

do you swap jobs with your employee? I realize as the boss its your perogotive to ride each and every day...and each and every lawn, do you? I know If i was stuck walking with a string trimmer for 8 hours a day, I'd have no desire to work either.

Once you let him get away with the "sleep-in routine" or the draging feet to get on the equipment more than a couple times, Now you are to blame. You allowed the behaviour and the beheviour is a learned and percevied as being not a big deal to him. If he's not at your doorstep ready to work take off with out him....if he catches up to you durring the day and wants to work tell him to show up on time tomorrow and he can work.

Obviously if you had fired him after the first 2 weeks of his lack of work ethic, you would not be 60 yards to the good. Now with the offseason coming up it will give you time to find a replacement employee.

Rather than pay him hourly, have you thought about paying him based on the amountof work accomplished. lets say he gets 400 per week and you cut 60 yards in a week... maybe you pay him a flat wage of 7 bucks per house that he helps you complete in a week. so if you get all 60 done he gets his full pay and youre not stuck paying by the hour while he drags his feet?

Just some thoughts. Tardiness and attendance are my hot buttons....

LawnBrother
09-05-2006, 12:59 PM
Fire his ass and find someone who will work. Friend or not, business is business. I had a friend who helped me a few times, and afer that I told him I was faster alone and joked about it, but he understood. If he is a real friend he will understand where you're coming from. Explain it without insulting him, and explain that you are still friends, but ut time is money and you need someone faster!

AlleganyLawnCare
09-05-2006, 01:26 PM
At the beginning of this year, a friend of mine needed extra cash - so I hired him part time. He would ALWAYS show up late, have to leave early, at the last moment call in saying he was sick, or had to go do something else. One time, I left him at a property that takes about 2 hours for one person. I went and did 4 other properties. I go and check up on him. His car was moved, it had me puzzled. And he just got started on the grass! But to top it off, as I was walking by his car, I found out he went to lunch the whole time I was gone. I was pissed. But I didn't show it. We finished the job. After that, he came up to me and said that this just wasn't his type of work. I accepted it, thanked him for the work he did do, and credited him it for only 1 hours worth of work that day. I hated to lose an employee, but I rather lose him as an employee instead of losing him as a friend.

HOOLIE
09-05-2006, 01:33 PM
Hindsight is 20/20...think about it...if someone is unemployed and needs a job, typically they have some sort of problem keeping a job. Always a red flag for me, if someone is not working.

Regardless of whether it's a friend or not, once you begin to tolerate tardiness and absenteeism, it's hard to all of a sudden lay down the law months later. Been there and done that myself.

If I were you, I'd secretly start looking for a replacement...sounds like the friendship is going downhill anyway.

tthomass
09-05-2006, 01:36 PM
I hired a friend but we both have a very similar work ethic, he just talks too much some times when we need to leave. I do see what you are expereincing as I know friends of mine that I certainly would not hire. I expect someone to work as hard as I do and they are paid well for it, if they don't then they can go on somewhere else.......ask my last guy.

Have you tried just laying out things and explaining how the situation is bad and work on getting back on track? I would suggest not yelling and leaving out 4 letter words or you may not have an employee at all.

olderthandirt
09-05-2006, 01:38 PM
You first need a business before employees.

i like waking up at 8 being at first job 8:30. he usually gets up at 9:30 or so and if i call his phone 14 times in a row it doesnt matter. very frusterating.

Your a grass cutter who hired a so called friend to help. AND you let him dictate when and how he will work. This is all your fault for letting it continue and is not a business in any kind of form

sheshovel
09-05-2006, 02:00 PM
Yeppers....60 lawns a month-say.. 30 days a month-
8:30 start time? Get started at 6:30, do three lawns a day and you might even get a weekend off once in a while if you hustle.

jazak
09-05-2006, 02:08 PM
Get rid of him and get a mexican:clapping: :clapping:

JimLewis
09-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Get rid of him and get a mexican:clapping: :clapping:

Yah, ditto that.

You are right, though. Hiring friends or family is almost always a bad idea. They almost always feel they can get away with more crap because you are friends or family and they almost always end up resenting you for "ordering them around" even though you are their boss. Never a good idea to hire friends or family, IMHO.

That being said, there are ways you can help improve the situation if you don't want to fire him. First off, empathize with him. Before I started my company I never enjoyed yard work. I never liked mowing lawns. But that's because I wasn't getting paid well for it. When I started by business and was all of a sudden making $30 or more per man hour, all of a sudden I was pretty excited about it! And you were probably too! But when you are making $8 or $10 or $12 an hour, it's not all that exciting. So you gotta look at it from that perspective first. AND you gotta let him know you get that. Something like, "Hey man. We gotta talk about your performance and energy level lately. Look. I understand this isn't fun work. I get that. I pay you as much as I can afford to and I know it probably doesn't seem like much for such hard work. Furthermore, it's probably not much fun having your friend order you around. But here's the deal. The reality is you agreed to take on this job. And I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to hire a friend. I was afraid work would get in the way of our friendship. And maybe you wouldn't respect me like you would a real boss. But despite my reservations, I hired you anyway because I wanted you to have a good job and I was in the position to offer you one. If you have better options for jobs now and want to take a job elsewhere, that's cool with me. But if not, let's try to work together here and get this stuff done as quickly as possible so we can get home sooner. Deal?"

Something like that should help. And you may have to have a similar discussion every week or two if he starts to slack again.

TJLANDS
09-05-2006, 02:58 PM
I agree with Jim. Stay away from friends and family for both workers and jobs. Leads to nothing but problems.

evergreenedmond
09-05-2006, 03:03 PM
Don't try to reason with him just fire him. Get up earlier work harder work weekends & look for a new employee & let them know from day 1 that you won't tolerate tardiness or laziness. The first time you let an employee get away with anything it's over you have to stay on top of things if you are going to be a boss. I'm not saying that you should fire someone the first time they are late, but I would send them home & tell them to come back tomorrow. If they need off some day have them work late the day before.

Liquidfast
09-05-2006, 03:13 PM
You are lucky that this is just an employee you are talking about. The person you just described is my PARTNER. Always and I mean each and every single day so far this year....LATE. Always an excuse. Never wants to work yet always wants his 50%. If I were as lucky as you to just have him as an employee, his ass would have been gone DAY ONE. This year, I fired a guy on the first job after 20 minutes and another after half a day. If ya dont got it, ya just dont got it.

MarcSmith
09-05-2006, 03:24 PM
Yeppers....60 lawns a month-say.. 30 days a month-
8:30 start time? Get started at 6:30, do three lawns a day and you might even get a weekend off once in a while if you hustle.

I think he means he cuts 60 lawns a week.

I could do 15 a day by myself, but these were florida lawns on 1/2-1/4 acre lots...with only 30minutes of windshield time each day. I imgaine in rochester you got some larger lots...

You might have to suck it up and run solo for the rest of the year and work some weekend and holidays to stay caught up....Inthe end you'll havemore $$ in the pocket, you'll just be too tired to spend it...:)

evergreenedmond
09-05-2006, 04:25 PM
You are lucky that this is just an employee you are talking about. The person you just described is my PARTNER. Always and I mean each and every single day so far this year....LATE. Always an excuse. Never wants to work yet always wants his 50%. If I were as lucky as you to just have him as an employee, his ass would have been gone DAY ONE. This year, I fired a guy on the first job after 20 minutes and another after half a day. If ya dont got it, ya just dont got it.

You need to buy him out & get on with your life. You will NEVER be succesful with somebody like this, you can either be nice or succesful not both.

wacamaster
09-05-2006, 04:30 PM
I have had ALL friends as employees.. maybe gone though about 8. All were great. I did have 1 non-friend work and he was a crack head fuk and stopped showing up.

It seems everyone on here always advises against no friends.. so maybe I'm just doing things different with them. I motivate them and have fun with them (hoot and holla at hot chics on the rd. and stuff). Small stuff like that goes along way. I am a loyal person and have good friends.. so it just wouldn't be like a friend of mine to show up late. That would be a scumbag friend. Also.. you may have some "good" friends but they wouldn't be good to have work for you.. you should be able to figure this out before the fact.

MarcSmith
09-05-2006, 04:33 PM
you can either be nice or succesful not both.

You can be nice to your employee and be successfull. Letting someone slide on the rules and not enforcing policy isn't being nice, its being stupid....Take out of loan and get rid of the partner if they aren't pulling their share...

olderthandirt
09-05-2006, 04:38 PM
I motivate them and have fun with them (hoot and holla at hot chics on the rd. and stuff). Small stuff like that goes along way.

Don't sound like a very professional way to conduct a business.

evergreenedmond
09-05-2006, 04:56 PM
I have had ALL friends as employees.. maybe gone though about 8. All were great. I did have 1 non-friend work and he was a crack head fuk and stopped showing up.

It seems everyone on here always advises against no friends.. so maybe I'm just doing things different with them. I motivate them and have fun with them (hoot and holla at hot chics on the rd. and stuff). Small stuff like that goes along way. I am a loyal person and have good friends.. so it just wouldn't be like a friend of mine to show up late. That would be a scumbag friend. Also.. you may have some "good" friends but they wouldn't be good to have work for you.. you should be able to figure this out before the fact.

Please tell me you're kidding about yelling at girls in a work truck.

ElephantNest
09-05-2006, 05:11 PM
Good Lord, I'm sure he meant hoot and holler at the women amongst themselves.....in the truck, to each other. Not hanging out the friggin window barking like dogs. Jeeze.

walker/redmax
09-05-2006, 07:07 PM
thats the quickest wayto breed contempt among your employee's and get even less work out of them.
Buuuuuuuull $h1t. I agree that it's best to try to maintain a good relationship with employees. Sort of make them feel like your are their friend rather than their boss. But as soon as they start slackin, out comes the whip. If they don't like it then fire their ass and find a Mexican that has a decent work ethic. Sometimes its best just to tell them this, point blank. :drinkup:

crawdad
09-05-2006, 08:02 PM
Good Lord, I'm sure he meant hoot and holler at the women amongst themselves.....in the truck, to each other. Not hanging out the friggin window barking like dogs. Jeeze.


Chicks dig that, don't they?

"Hey, baby! Wooo-hooo!" :waving:

jim163
09-05-2006, 08:06 PM
You first need a business before employees.



Your a grass cutter who hired a so called friend to help. AND you let him dictate when and how he will work. This is all your fault for letting it continue and is not a business in any kind of form

call it what you want old man I couldn't care less what you say. I get all my lawns done EVERY WEEK and I get paid.

evergreenedmond
09-05-2006, 09:20 PM
call it what you want old man I couldn't care less what you say. I get all my lawns done EVERY WEEK and I get paid.

You should listen to what he is saying. He's been in business almost 30 years & you been doing this for 2. He is trying to help your bottom line, if you wake up at 5:30 you can be on your first yard much earlier which would give you more money at the end of the week without the hastle of dealing with that village idiot you hired.

lawnwizards
09-05-2006, 09:30 PM
call it what you want old man I couldn't care less what you say. I get all my lawns done EVERY WEEK and I get paid.if you know it all then why are you on here starting threads?:dizzy:

olderthandirt
09-05-2006, 09:40 PM
call it what you want old man I couldn't care less what you say. I get all my lawns done EVERY WEEK and I get paid.

Only if you can wake the friend in time :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Liquidfast
09-05-2006, 09:53 PM
Where has all the love gone?

I wish I could smuggle mexicans across the border to work here, for me. I kid you not. I would pay him/her very well, make sure they are not over worked and treat THEM like gold. I cannot find a decent person to work for me PERIOD. Hell, even my secretary sucks, and not the good kind either!

TURF DOCTOR
09-05-2006, 10:12 PM
Never let anyone dictate your work wait 5 min and pull out and don't sweat it.

parkeeee
09-05-2006, 10:19 PM
Get rid of him and get a mexican:clapping: :clapping:


LOL. Too funny.

I don't know if you are switching jobs (riding/trimming) or if you are only looking for someone to do the grunt work, but the bottom line is that this is 'your business, your reputation.'

You have the right to decide on the type of employee you need to fill the position and the duties that are assigned.

Work is work.

Friends are friends.

Very rarely will the two mix.

IMO

lawnwizards
09-05-2006, 10:32 PM
i like rod's way of paying when he first started. i believe he said something of giving your helper a percentage of each yard. 30% i think it was. that way they feel like they have an ownership and they try to do more to make the business bigger. must've worked, just look at rod now.payup

J&R Landscaping
09-05-2006, 10:34 PM
call it what you want old man I couldn't care less what you say. I get all my lawns done EVERY WEEK and I get paid.

Damn, thats really disrescpectful. :nono:

He's got the expereince and years behind him to back-up what he says. IMHO, your gonna regret saying that!

olderthandirt
09-05-2006, 10:51 PM
i like rod's way of paying when he first started. i believe he said something of giving your helper a percentage of each yard. 30% i think it was. that way they feel like they have an ownership and they try to do more to make the business bigger. must've worked, just look at rod now.payup


Actually Randy thats how I paid and still do on certain jobs. It gives 2 incentives. One being made to feel more of the team and the other is the harder they work the more they make. Its a win win situation for all invovled, Also on any jobs they bring in the % will increase on that job. Great way to grow and have your employees grow with you

lawnwizards
09-05-2006, 10:56 PM
Actually Randy thats how I paid and still do on certain jobs. It gives 2 incentives. One being made to feel more of the team and the other is the harder they work the more they make. Its a win win situation for all invovled, Also on any jobs they bring in the % will increase on that job. Great way to grow and have your employees grow with you
thats the way i want my business to be mac. when i finally get around to having employees. or should i say, get big enough to have employees..:laugh:

bigjeeping
09-05-2006, 11:03 PM
I tell them If I'm out of the truck before you then you're fired.

Pietro
09-06-2006, 12:19 AM
I NEVER hire friends to work for me. However, I work everyday with a good friend, but hes my business partner......so of course hes going to hustle like I do......**** He gets half the profits lol.

jim163
09-06-2006, 12:54 AM
thats the way i want my business to be mac. when i finally get around to having employees. or should i say, get big enough to have employees..:laugh:
60 lawns is alot for one person in one week.

waffletown20
09-06-2006, 02:21 AM
I have had two friends for employees and here are my experiences. My first friend simply didn't realize how hard the work is, he thought it was going to be easy cash. He kept coming up with excuses not to work so I picked up the vibe and gave him the option of staying in or dropping out. He dropped the job and we continue to be great friends. My other friend is extremely hard working, always on-time, and really motivated to do the job right and do it quickly. I pay 20% to trim and leafblow and he ends up making 16-18 an hour which he deserves. I feel that a large benefit to the percentage wage is that raises come naturally. As we became a better team his hourly pay went up as it should. This only works for professions where speed is a factor. I recognize how lucky I am to have such a great friend and co-worker. That being said, you must use your judgment and only hire somebody with similar goals work ethic.

topsites
09-06-2006, 06:41 AM
Forget employees, so long I can finish yards by myself with my 48" Wb in about the same or less time it takes the 2 guys across the road to do their yard with a Z, who needs them?

Now 60 yards would be tough in the spring but I had 55 last year by myself and there was still some slack in the schedule. Summer is coming to an end but that also means grass isn't growing like it was in the spring, I can't see how one man can't tackle all 60 by himself, maybe if worse comes to now is a good time to 'forget' or put off doing the one or two you'd been meaning to drop anyhow (pita riddance time).

I wish I had your problems, except for the employee friend bit, that part I don't envy and I'm sorry to hear you're going through this learning experience.

Liquidfast
09-06-2006, 07:00 AM
People praise the whole % thing per lawn with employees. Great, it does work. However, lets see two employees on their own getting a percentage of lawns. Guaranteed its a sure way of having someone call to complain about shotty work. LOL. I am scouting our local taco bell this evening. I really need someone with atleast a grade 7 education. Dauuuum.

MarcSmith
09-06-2006, 08:28 AM
Buuuuuuuull $h1t. I agree that it's best to try to maintain a good relationship with employees. Sort of make them feel like your are their friend rather than their boss. But as soon as they start slackin, out comes the whip. If they don't like it then fire their ass and find a Mexican that has a decent work ethic. Sometimes its best just to tell them this, point blank. :drinkup:

Walker Haveing a good realtionship with employee is good, it lets them realize that you are human and you care about the human element. If they know the boss inherinlty cares about them, then are more apt to care about the job and their surroundings, which means they are more productive, less likely to abuse equiment, more likely to respect you and your desicions.

When I hear peopel say "crack the whip" I envision a hard driver really putting the employee's in their place, akin to the slave driving days. Just becasue you enforce the policy you set forth when you hire someone, doesn't mean you're cracking the whip it means you are holding them accoutnable for actions or lack-of.

walker/redmax
09-06-2006, 08:56 PM
Walker Haveing a good realtionship with employee is good, it lets them realize that you are human and you care about the human element. If they know the boss inherinlty cares about them, then are more apt to care about the job and their surroundings, which means they are more productive, less likely to abuse equiment, more likely to respect you and your desicions.

When I hear peopel say "crack the whip" I envision a hard driver really putting the employee's in their place, akin to the slave driving days. Just becasue you enforce the policy you set forth when you hire someone, doesn't mean you're cracking the whip it means you are holding them accoutnable for actions or lack-of.
Yes, I agree with all of that. But look at it this way, the same is true for little kids or dogs, really. But what do you do with a child that is throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store or a mastiff that jumps into peoples arms every time someone walks in the door. They need to be spanked. It really depends on how you want to raise your kids or your dog. The same is true for your employees. Again, I don't disagree with anything you said.:waving:

lawnwizards
09-06-2006, 10:38 PM
Yes, I agree with all of that. But look at it this way, the same is true for little kids or dogs, really. But what do you do with a child that is throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store or a mastiff that jumps into peoples arms every time someone walks in the door. They need to be spanked. It really depends on how you want to raise your kids or your dog. The same is true for your employees. Again, I don't disagree with anything you said.:waving:
you spank your employees? either youre a hard ass or kinky....:laugh:

waffletown20
09-07-2006, 12:23 AM
you spank your employees? either youre a hard ass or kinky....:laugh:


You really walked into that one.

MarcSmith
09-07-2006, 07:45 AM
Yes, I agree with all of that. But look at it this way, the same is true for little kids or dogs, really. But what do you do with a child that is throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store or a mastiff that jumps into peoples arms every time someone walks in the door. They need to be spanked. It really depends on how you want to raise your kids or your dog. The same is true for your employees. Again, I don't disagree with anything you said.:waving:

Yeah but kids and dogs have a limited mental capacity. Spanking a 3-4 year old as a result of a tantrum is only gonna make them scream louder. They can't put the punishment/crime together and make the corelation. and dogs are just stupid....Heck my dog peed in in his water bowl yesterday....WTF

Don't ge me wrong some 3-4 year olds and dogs have a greater mental capacity than some people I have worked with... If you lay down the ground rules and policies and they understand them, having to discipline them doesnt not make you a mean boss or make you any less of a freind to them. If anything by disciplining them you are being a freind to them and helping them learn and grow.

And I really think we all want our employee to learn and grow as people such that they woudl do a better job, leanr more abou the business, and hopefull take over a route for us so we coudl get out of the "manual labor" part of job...

But you are correct in that some people just need to governed and lead, so to speak..

walker/redmax
09-07-2006, 09:47 PM
You really walked into that one.
OK, I won't argue with that!:laugh: