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View Full Version : Secretary at insurance agency insists I don't need workman's comp.


procut
09-05-2006, 04:11 PM
ok, I have a part time employee thats works anywhre from 12-25 hours a week. I go to the insurance agency to add him to my policy and the secretary tells me to 1099 him. I could not convince her that it was illegal and not the correct way of doing things. She proceeded to tell me that if he is 1099 he is responsible for himself and I have no responsibility at all if he is injured. I told her, no I had an attorney tell me I can be sued 4X the amount of the damages if he is injured because I chose to not have workmans comp. She talked to me like I was some kind of ****** for not "just 1099 'ing him". I said no he is an empoyee not a subcontractor. She still couln't see why I wanted to buy workmans comp. and sat their shaking her head and rolling her eyes at me. I think it time for a new insurance agency.

stumper1620
09-05-2006, 04:18 PM
ok, I have a part time employee thats works anywhre from 12-25 hours a week. I go to the insurance agency to add him to my policy and the secretary tells me to 1099 him. I could not convince her that it was illegal and not the correct way of doing things. She proceeded to tell me that if he is 1099 he is responsible for himself and I have no responsibility at all if he is injured. I told her, no I had an attorney tell me I can be sued 4X the amount of the damages if he is injured because I chose to not have workmans comp. She talked to me like I was some kind of ****** for not "just 1099 'ing him". I said no he is an empoyee not a subcontractor. She still couln't see why I wanted to buy workmans comp. and sat their shaking her head and rolling her eyes at me. I think it time for a new insurance agency.
I agree.
Sounds like she has a problem with someone thats not trying to cheat.
I had trouble with my agent when I first started out, he really didn't want to give me a quote for liability, after I got another quote, then he decided he better figure something out. he kept saying " You need 3 years tree service experience before I can insure you for stump grinding.

i_plant_art
09-05-2006, 04:19 PM
key word here...............the secretary

dontl et it get you down man thats why she is "the secretary" and not the AGENT. if it comes down to it get a new agent i dont blame you. they should sell you something that you feel you need, afterall its ur arse not hers. i wouldnt second guess yourself on getting that policy though.

procut
09-05-2006, 04:29 PM
Very true, the agent wasn't in the office. I did tell her to go a head and get the policy, and she reluctantly agreed. Here I am doing things the right way, and her the insurance lady, of all people tells me to cheat.

Az Gardener
09-05-2006, 05:10 PM
This should serve as a lesson to everyone to check and double check the validity of the information you receive.

Realize your swimming with the big fish when you start a business of your own. "I didn't know" or "they told me" just wont cut it.

rodfather
09-05-2006, 05:22 PM
was she part time help and blonde? :laugh:

LB1234
09-05-2006, 05:37 PM
Report her dumb azz to the agent and see what the agent has to say about his secretary claiming this.

ChadsLawn
09-05-2006, 06:51 PM
Report her dumb azz to the agent and see what the agent has to say about his secretary claiming this.

Did yoy have a bad day today with people in general? Nothing but negative in 2 posts Ive read from you today.... Dam have a beer or something:drinkup:

Firefly Lighting
09-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Why don't you take your business else where? Maybe they will listen then. I have Selective and they are great.

Mike33
09-05-2006, 07:15 PM
She is wrong if the guy is on your payroll have wcomp. A 1099 is for someone else that is in business themselves providing a service for you. I have a guy who does all of my trucking for me haul in and haul away he is in the trucking business next jan. he will get a 1099 from me. Another body of mine has a dozer and in the excav. business when i need a dozer i call him in jan. he will get 1099 also. My employee weather he works 8 or 50 hours a week he is covered by my w. comp. policy. Dont let your employee own your home and business if he gets hurt. Go to the next ins. co. in yellow pages some one real soon will sell you ins/
Mike

eruuska
09-06-2006, 01:30 AM
My AGENT told me that part time employees didn't need to be covered with WC. Said he had 2 office girls that only worked part time and he didn't have them covered. I looked up the rules on the IN.gov website, and guess what? He's wrong! I went back and told him, he kind of shrugged his shoulders and mumbled something about having to check it out later when he gets a chance.

topsites
09-06-2006, 03:19 AM
ok, I have a part time employee thats works anywhre from 12-25 hours a week. I go to the insurance agency to add him to my policy and the secretary tells me to 1099 him. I could not convince her that it was illegal and not the correct way of doing things. She proceeded to tell me that if he is 1099 he is responsible for himself and I have no responsibility at all if he is injured. I told her, no I had an attorney tell me I can be sued 4X the amount of the damages if he is injured because I chose to not have workmans comp. She talked to me like I was some kind of ****** for not "just 1099 'ing him". I said no he is an empoyee not a subcontractor. She still couln't see why I wanted to buy workmans comp. and sat their shaking her head and rolling her eyes at me. I think it time for a new insurance agency.

I'm with you man, even if you are wrong (I honestly don't know but lets just say you are, for kicks), that employee has no reason to act like that towards you. It's not about who is right and who is wrong, it's about her treating you like you're some kind of moron, and that is wrong.

I get crazy requests from my customers, too... In cases where I know I am right and they are wrong, I simply tell them what my better judgement is and if after that they still want me to do things their way, then so be it. That's what this secretary should've done, just insured your guy and charged you and you would've paid and that is the end of it, but the end of it now is still clear, I don't tolerate this type of condescending attitude from nobody.

Peace out, best of luck.

ljvhulst
09-06-2006, 08:52 AM
ok, I have a part time employee thats works anywhre from 12-25 hours a week. I go to the insurance agency to add him to my policy and the secretary tells me to 1099 him. I could not convince her that it was illegal and not the correct way of doing things. She proceeded to tell me that if he is 1099 he is responsible for himself and I have no responsibility at all if he is injured. I told her, no I had an attorney tell me I can be sued 4X the amount of the damages if he is injured because I chose to not have workmans comp. She talked to me like I was some kind of ****** for not "just 1099 'ing him". I said no he is an empoyee not a subcontractor. She still couln't see why I wanted to buy workmans comp. and sat their shaking her head and rolling her eyes at me. I think it time for a new insurance agency.

ProCut

Technically she is correct. The State Work Comp law does not require you to carry Workers Compensation for 1 part time employee, only for full time. However, it is a wise decision to carry Workers Compensation for this employee in the event of injury. I owned a insurance agency for 10 years and sold out to my partners. If one of my employees provided you this information she would be terminated, however you should be able to make a business decision based upon facts. I carry the CIC ( Certified Insurance Counselor) designation . Hope this was helpful

procut
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Ok, I did a little research on my own, and yes, I don't NEED to have w.c on this guy. However, if he is injured I could/would be on the hook for all the medical bills and/or damages.

Runner
09-08-2006, 10:28 AM
ProCut

Technically she is correct. The State Work Comp law does not require you to carry Workers Compensation for 1 part time employee, only for full time. However, it is a wise decision to carry Workers Compensation for this employee in the event of injury. I owned a insurance agency for 10 years and sold out to my partners. If one of my employees provided you this information she would be terminated, however you should be able to make a business decision based upon facts. I carry the CIC ( Certified Insurance Counselor) designation . Hope this was helpful

WOW! This is news. Thanks for the post, and info. I'm sure this will be useful to MANY on here who are wondering (for Michigan, anyway). The one part-time employee is a whole category or calibur (and very COMMON one) for many businesses.

olderthandirt
09-08-2006, 11:55 AM
ProCut

Technically she is correct. The State Work Comp law does not require you to carry Workers Compensation for 1 part time employee, only for full time. However, it is a wise decision to carry Workers Compensation for this employee in the event of injury. I owned a insurance agency for 10 years and sold out to my partners. If one of my employees provided you this information she would be terminated, however you should be able to make a business decision based upon facts. I carry the CIC ( Certified Insurance Counselor) designation . Hope this was helpful


What about other states with the same rules regulations? Any other ones that you could mention?

ljvhulst
09-08-2006, 06:56 PM
What about other states with the same rules regulations? Any other ones that you could mention?


Mac

Call your agent and ask him/her for this information. Tell them you want to see a copy of the Work Comp LAW in your particular state reqarding when and if you must carry Workers Compensation. Laws do vary from state to state. Please do not think that I am advocating not carrying Workers Compensation . If you have an 1 employee or 1000 you need it. However , sometimes the LAW does not require you to provide.

DynaMow
09-11-2006, 09:02 AM
What about other states with the same rules regulations? Any other ones that you could mention?
Check out this link for info
http://www-agecon.ag.ohio-state.edu/resources/docs/pdf/9DFCC48D-F0A6-4B0D-9612AE4FAAE73BAF.pdf#search=%22workers%20comp%20ohio%20law%22

VBsnow
09-15-2006, 04:57 PM
Hello,

I am an insurance agent in Virginia. I should start with the fact that what is legally required is different in EVERY STATE. Here in VA this is how it works:

Sole prop- Upon hiring third employee, you must have comp.

Corp- Each officer is considered and employee. So if there are 2 officers and one employee, you must have comp. 1 officer and 2 employees, you must have comp.

LLC's- Same as above but "managers" are treated as officers and "members" are treated as sole props.

3 is the magic number here of what is legally required. Officers are the trick as they are considered employees (get it?).

If someone tells you that you do not "need" comp they need to be fired. If someone at our agency did this they would be pulled from their desk that minute. This could automatically be a lawsuit against my company. You see, if you are told to remove a hedge, and you remove the wrong ones, this is considered and error(only covered by E &O, ask if interested). If I give you bad advice, I have made an error, thus I an liable. If I tell you that you do not need something and you do, I am responsible.

If this employee or sun-contractor, whatever you want to call them, if they become injured, you are responsible period. You are correct that a 1099 is a sub. IF THE SUB DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN COMP THEY ARE NOW YOUR EMPLOYEE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR INJURIES AND LOST PAY. IT VARIES FROM STATE TO STATE ON THE DAMAGES ABOVE THAT. You should have a certificate WITH YOUR NAME ON IT BEFORE THEY WORK, NOT BEFORE THEY ARE PAID. You can call them what you want, pay them on what form you want, but you are responsible for their injuries AND any damages they inflict upon a 3rd party(broken window, run over children, ect.).

I am befuddled as to why this person would give you this advice. They work for commision and can only gain by you spending more. Regardless, you sound to be a small company and possibly a sole prop and this type of loss could ruin the rest of your life. I am ashamed that someone in our profession would offer such idiotic advice to someone. It sounds as though she was more interested in being a buddy and telling you what she thought you wanted to hear as opposed to being a professional and doing her job.

Hope this helps.

Doug Z.
09-15-2006, 11:16 PM
In Wisconsin, if you have an employee, and he gets hurt working for you, you better have w/c. If you file a 1099, he better not be using your equipment, and I know with my insurance company, any sub has to have proof of insurance on themselves.
The part that realllllllly sucks is, last year I had a high school kid work for me. He brought home about $ 650.00. W/c was $ 900.00. My agent (My uncle) told me that that is the minimum fee set up by the state. That really hurts the small guy..

Up North
09-16-2006, 01:02 AM
Good info guys. Any LCO would be crazy for not carrying WC if you have any employee...period.

Buck

YardPro
09-16-2006, 08:35 AM
not having WC is like playing russian roulette.

in NC it is 3 or more you are required to have it.

if someone is injured and you do not have it, you are responsible for 3 times the dammages.

Jlawnmow
09-26-2006, 09:35 PM
I'm with Doug, what about the small guy. I have a guy help me 2 or 3 times a week. I only have 25-30 yards, so I don't make a lot of money. Hear in Oklahoma we have a minimum.

Josh.S
09-30-2006, 09:53 PM
i only have one guy that helps me out around one day per week, he is covered under his dads medical insurance.. so since i am under the minimum (3) i am not legally required to pay w/c..

is there anyway i can get him or his guardians saying that i am not responsable and will not be sued for any damages that could happen while he is working for me?? also if he shoots a stone out from my mower and hits a car, will my insurance pay for it? i just have insurance for sole proprietor 1m liability

VBsnow
10-03-2006, 04:53 PM
Per state law anyone who works for you regardless of whether they are a sub, working for free, or you direct employee are your responsibility. Subs should have their own coverage naming you as a certificate holder. This protects you and releases you from responsibility for their injuries. As your direct employee the buck stops with you. The law may say you are not "required" to carry coverage, but it does not release you from being reponsible for the injuries. Also, the 3 EE rule changes depending on whether you are a sole prop or a corp.

EXP:If this EE gets hurt and goes to the hospital and they file their health insurance it may be denied, it may not, I have seen it go both ways. What happens if the EE becomes disabled? As a sole prop you now have a lifelong problem. Even worse, this person is disabled with no long term protection. You see, WC pays ALL medical expenses forever. Health insurance only pays as long as you pay the premuim. Then there is the issue of lost pay and disabilty.

Buy the coverage. Be glad you are not a carpenter.

VBsnow
10-03-2006, 04:57 PM
If the rock breaks a window the GL insurance will pay. The payroll will show up at audit. They usually charge per thousand for GL coverage. There is no way to exclude someone from coverage unless they are an insured sub who has named you as additional insured. Even then you are responsible, but the subs insurance would have to pay your losses. Deep pocket theory my friend. Sue everyone in the room until someone pays. While this would not be the case w/ a broken window, it would be with a more serious loss. Check your deductible amount as well.

mslawn
10-04-2006, 10:50 PM
You are just stupid if you have even 1 employee and do not get employee liability insurance! Period! Employees will have accidents. I had a guy slice his hand on the hedge trimmers just yesterday and even though I will pay for the er visit and seven stiitches out of my pocket instead of claiming it, it is the what ifs - what if he cut fingers off or slit his wrist on them , then worker comp would have really come in handy.

VBsnow
10-05-2006, 11:12 AM
I wish I could tell customers like that...but I can't. Your right though. I saw a restaurant run by two friends where one was the owner and one was the manager. The one who was the manager burned himself and then did not go to doctor. 2 weeks later the burn became infected and the one buddy not only made a claim for the injury but continued to lay out of work for a month. The claim ended up having a disability payment as well. Now these guys were best buddies. What if that hedge trimmer cut a nerve? It sucks to do "what ifs" but they do happen. I pay $700.00 a year in disability in case a get injured so my kids will have somewhere to live. Every month I hate paying it but what am I gonna' do?