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Elkbow
09-05-2006, 04:44 PM
I’ve been shopping for a ZTR and the absolute most I can spend is $6000. What do you recommend? I currently have a Hustler 19/52 Mini Z with a Kawasaki engine. This mower is new and list is $7799.00, but it has an $1800.00 rebate which makes it $5999.00.
I am also testing out a Cub Cadet M48 Tank. It is a loaner from the dealer to his commercial accounts when their mower is in the shop. It has 36 hours on it, and you can definitely tell it’s been used. It also has the 19 hp Kawasaki engine for $5000.00. Is 19 hp really enough for a 52” ZTR?
Locally we have a dealer for John Deere, Snapper, Kubota, Skag, Bush Hog, Hustler, and a Cub Cadet/Exmark dealer. Are there any other mowers I should consider before making my decision? I will probably buy tomorrow, but could put it off for a few days to make sure I get the best mower for the money. Once again, my ABSOLUTE max is $6000. I have been reading this site a lot trying to make a decision, but would appreciate any suggestions you could offer. Thanks in advance for all your help.:drinkup:

dcondon
09-05-2006, 04:51 PM
I say go with the Cub Tank!!! You will love it and will save money!!! We have 3 of them. 60's and 72

Green King
09-05-2006, 05:00 PM
A few for you to check out Dixie Chopper, Everide, Encore Extreme and scag.
another one to check out would be country clipper.

Elkbow
09-05-2006, 05:30 PM
A few for you to check out Dixie Chopper, Everide, Encore Extreme and scag.
another one to check out would be country clipper.

I appreciate the suggestions, but of the 4 brands you suggested, we only have a Scag dealer locally. I talked to them last weekend, and they are HIGH. I just called another Scag dealer 50 miles from here, and he has a 24 hp Briggs and Stratton 48" Scag for $5999. He also has a 19/48" Cub demo with 9 hours for $4995, or one just like it brand new for $5599. Both have Kawasaki engines. Are B&S engines as good as a Kawasaki?
Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to 2 mowers, now I have several to choose from. I'm getting so confused! :dizzy:

metro36
09-05-2006, 06:04 PM
I appreciate the suggestions, but of the 4 brands you suggested, we only have a Scag dealer locally. I talked to them last weekend, and they are HIGH. I just called another Scag dealer 50 miles from here, and he has a 24 hp Briggs and Stratton 48" Scag for $5999. He also has a 19/48" Cub demo with 9 hours for $4995, or one just like it brand new for $5599. Both have Kawasaki engines. Are B&S engines as good as a Kawasaki?
Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to 2 mowers, now I have several to choose from. I'm getting so confused! :dizzy:
Kawi Engines are way better than briggs in my opinion. A kawi will outlast any briggs. Also a kawi will perform better than a briggs. I would that demo unit if I was you if it is in good condition.
Just my 0.2

jsf343
09-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Kawi Engines are way better than briggs in my opinion. A kawi will outlast any briggs. Also a kawi will perform better than a briggs. I would that demo unit if I was you if it is in good condition.
Just my 0.2

I agree 100% say no to Briggs:nono:

Scotts' Yard Care
09-05-2006, 06:12 PM
Kodiak or Grizzly are right in that price range. One of our big mowing companies has a Grizz with 600 or so trouble free hours on it. Pulls the deck in the winter and hangs a blade on it for snow plow work.

Elkbow
09-05-2006, 06:36 PM
Kawi Engines are way better than briggs in my opinion. A kawi will outlast any briggs. Also a kawi will perform better than a briggs. I would that demo unit if I was you if it is in good condition.
Just my 0.2

Are you saying you would buy the demo Cub Cadet Tank at $5000 and 36 very rough "loaner" hours over the new Hustler for $6000?



Kodiak or Grizzly are right in that price range. One of our big mowing companies has a Grizz with 600 or so trouble free hours on it. Pulls the deck in the winter and hangs a blade on it for snow plow work.

The closest Dixon dealer is 45 miles away, in a direction I never travel. I really don't want to drive that far for service.

Elkbow
09-05-2006, 06:53 PM
I just noticed I wasn't clear in my first post, I am TESTING the Hustler 19/52 Mini-Z. I am trying to decide between it and the Cub Cadet Tank that I am also testing today.

Envy Lawn Service
09-05-2006, 07:17 PM
I just noticed I wasn't clear in my first post, I am TESTING the Hustler 19/52 Mini-Z. I am trying to decide between it and the Cub Cadet Tank that I am also testing today.

Me personally, I would very likely buy the Tank for $5K and put the rest away.

What is a new mower going to look like after a week or two anyways?
Scratched, scuffed and dirty.

But I would not buy any demo that's beat up (bent and so forth).

I like Hustler as good as any, but the Mini Z's just do not cut and perform that well. The deck is too shallow and restricted.... and 19hp is NOT enough for a 52". I recommend 23hp minimum for a 52".

Also, don't let these boys scare you away from that Scag with the 24hp Briggs. It's an awesome engine... and with the 2006 promo price, even if it wasn't and it died the day after warranty went out, you saved enough on the original purchase to be able to repower with anything you like.

If I were going to buy a 48" Scag today, there is no question in my mind I'd get the 24hp Briggs. They are a great, powerful and fuel efficient engine. They'll walk all over a similar Kawasaki.... and there's just no comparison between the 19hp Kawi and the 24hp Briggs... not even in the same ballpark in the real world.

I've talked several people into the Briggs powered Scag unit this year, and not a one of them has returned to complain about their decision... and believe me, it would be spread all over here if they were unhappy...

If the Tank is beat up, and you can't get a 2006 M-48 with the 23hp Kawasaki for $5,999... heck, go buy that Scag. At least demo one. I know I can't get a 48" Ztwo (same as TANK) for $5,999... and as much as I love the Ztwo's... I would at least demo the Scag myself if I had a good dealer and was in the market for another compact ZTR.

WJW Lawn
09-05-2006, 07:21 PM
What do Cadet Tanks typically sell for??

Elkbow
09-05-2006, 07:34 PM
My local dealer said that the M48 new is $6200.00

J&R Landscaping
09-05-2006, 07:37 PM
19hp on a 52" deck is decent. It's not the greastest in the spring or in thick wet conditions but it will do a good job. Go with the highest power option you can go with.

Why not also look into financing a mower. Many manufacturers have 0% for 24 months or something like that when you finance through sheffield financial.

Envy Lawn Service
09-05-2006, 07:44 PM
My local dealer said that the M48 new is $6200.00

23/48 Tank $6200
24/48 Scag $5999

A new Tank is a little out of your budget unless you can do some negotiating.
Otherwise it pretty much seems like a toss-up.

I'd demo both and consider both dealers.


(? Do you have a good Gravely dealer in your area ?)

6'7 330
09-05-2006, 07:57 PM
I appreciate the suggestions, but of the 4 brands you suggested, we only have a Scag dealer locally. I talked to them last weekend, and they are HIGH. I just called another Scag dealer 50 miles from here, and he has a 24 hp Briggs and Stratton 48" Scag for $5999. He also has a 19/48" Cub demo with 9 hours for $4995, or one just like it brand new for $5599. Both have Kawasaki engines. Are B&S engines as good as a Kawasaki?
Just when I thought I had it narrowed down to 2 mowers, now I have several to choose from. I'm getting so confused! :dizzy:

The Cub tank and the Scag are both good quality mowers.See if the dealers will arrange demos, and what each dealer's prospects are for quality after the sale support.

As far as the Briggs engine goes, If the Briggs is a Vanguard it would compare favorably to the kawi, non Vanguard Briggs go with the Kawi. Although I have to say in 05 Kawi quality control went south for us, many problems with brand new Kawasaki engines.

fulano
09-05-2006, 08:50 PM
How about looking through classified ads and getting a used one from an individual and saving a few thousand? You may have to travel though.
For example, here is a ztr in the lawnsite classifieds (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=159167) there are probably others as well.

I don't know the seller and don't know the machine so it may be a bad deal. It is just an example

FIRESCOOBY
09-05-2006, 09:09 PM
I've got a MINI-Z 52"/19 KAW. I love the unit for the cut and size. My bud has a 52" Super-Z and both mowers cut great, can't tell any difference. My ONLY regret is not getting a bigger engine. The 19hp is adequate at best.

I paid $6200 out the door for the Mini-Z, susp seat, and hitch kit.

zim bob the landscaper
09-05-2006, 09:16 PM
1. no one really has a snapper so take that out.

2. kubotas are very expensive so take that out as well.

also u need it right away?
if not save some more money and get a better ztr.
also i dont know how much brush hogs cost but Jmurphy (sp?) has one 52".
if u dont mind getting a used one look at ebay.
also if u have a gravely in your area you could get a 144Z really nice machines. and i think they might fit your budget. JMO
good luck on your purchase:waving:

texaslawn
09-05-2006, 10:21 PM
Does Arien's mower's not sale anywhere but texas? I just bought one brand new for 2999.00. As long as you get the one with the heavy duty decks on them they are just as good as anything else you can get.

DJL50
09-05-2006, 11:44 PM
I purchased a Toro 400 Estate 19KAW 52" deck. I am 100% happy with it. Has all the power I need. Not once did I ever think the engine was too small. I picked the Toro because I wanted a strong deck. That is the first thing I destroy on a mower. The Toro deck is made out of 7ga. steel. Top and sides. Strongest deck in the price range. $5,699. This is a commercial mower. Not a home owners model.

You can see a pic of my mower at http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=152934
3rd message down

Elkbow
09-06-2006, 09:03 AM
I'll use this for home use, mowing about 4-5 acres per week. The Tank I am looking at is the M48 with the welded deck.
I noticed in one of the brochures that the 19, 23, and 25 hp Kawasaki engines all show the same displacement (41.2 cu in) and compression ratio (8.1:1). What is different that gives those different horsepower and torque? Do they have different carburetors?

noseha
09-06-2006, 09:32 AM
:hammerhead: T.s.c. Buy A Cub Cadet Then You Have Some Money To Fix It !two Years After Your Warranty Runs Out!

ProStreetCamaro
09-06-2006, 02:05 PM
I'll use this for home use, mowing about 4-5 acres per week. The Tank I am looking at is the M48 with the welded deck.
I noticed in one of the brochures that the 19, 23, and 25 hp Kawasaki engines all show the same displacement (41.2 cu in) and compression ratio (8.1:1). What is different that gives those different horsepower and torque? Do they have different carburetors?


Yup just different carbs and cams. BTW we have a 2006 M48 we bought new this year. Love it!!!

newbomb
09-06-2006, 05:58 PM
If you have $6000 to spend you might want to look around for a good used one at the end of the season. For that much, you could find a decent used Scag 61 or Lazer especially if you have cash. You will only need it a month or two anyway this season. I would look for a deal on a good used one at this point.

metro36
09-06-2006, 06:26 PM
Are you saying you would buy the demo Cub Cadet Tank at $5000 and 36 very rough "loaner" hours over the new Hustler for $6000?.
By cub I thought you meant tiger cub. There is no way I would buy a cub cadet ztr. I would go with a scag, exmark, ferris or bobcat. I have no experience with hustler. There are no dealers were I live so I never tried one.

Elkbow
09-06-2006, 08:26 PM
I have pretty much decided to go with the Hustler Mini Z with a 19 hp Kawasaki and a 52” cut. The Tank rides a lot rougher even though is has a pivoting front axel like a tractor. The Hustler also steers smoother and just has a better ride overall.

S man
09-06-2006, 08:32 PM
I have pretty much decided to go with the Hustler Mini Z with a 19 hp Kawasaki and a 52” cut. The Tank rides a lot rougher even though is has a pivoting front axel like a tractor. The Hustler also steers smoother and just has a better ride overall.

How does the tank cut?

I will be asking your question next year when I need a ztr.

Envy Lawn Service
09-06-2006, 08:59 PM
I have pretty much decided to go with the Hustler Mini Z with a 19 hp Kawasaki and a 52” cut. The Tank rides a lot rougher even though is has a pivoting front axel like a tractor. The Hustler also steers smoother and just has a better ride overall.

Never judge a ZTR's ride quality based until you have personally checked all 4 tires with a good low pressure tire gauge. What I find is that 9 times out of 10 the demos have like 20-30 PSI in all four tires. They all ride really bad like that and none of the ZTR's besides Ferris IS machines ride comfortable really. They all ride like war wagons to a degree.

If the Hustler Mini has a suspension seat, that makes all the difference.
One can be added to the Cub Tank for about $160.

Anyways, if you don't feel comfortable with the condition of that Cub demo, I can't say as I blame you... especially if you can't go the extra for it. But I'm surprised you show no interest in getting a Scag demo and a Gravely demo before you "jump the gun" and buy. Just remember that if you are like most, you will have to live with your decision quite a while.

I also agree that it is late in the year to be buying.
But if you need it, you need it I guess.

If you could get by without it a bit longer, and you have a good used equipment market in your area, you might be able to pick up a steal soon. Personally, I don't have that option in my area because the 'used market' is pitiful around me.

Elkbow
09-07-2006, 05:41 AM
Never judge a ZTR's ride quality based until you have personally checked all 4 tires with a good low pressure tire gauge. What I find is that 9 times out of 10 the demos have like 20-30 PSI in all four tires. They all ride really bad like that and none of the ZTR's besides Ferris IS machines ride comfortable really. They all ride like war wagons to a degree.

If the Hustler Mini has a suspension seat, that makes all the difference.
One can be added to the Cub Tank for about $160.

Anyways, if you don't feel comfortable with the condition of that Cub demo, I can't say as I blame you... especially if you can't go the extra for it. But I'm surprised you show no interest in getting a Scag demo and a Gravely demo before you "jump the gun" and buy. Just remember that if you are like most, you will have to live with your decision quite a while.

I also agree that it is late in the year to be buying.
But if you need it, you need it I guess.

If you could get by without it a bit longer, and you have a good used equipment market in your area, you might be able to pick up a steal soon. Personally, I don't have that option in my area because the 'used market' is pitiful around me.

You are right about the air pressure; the Tank had 27 pounds in the rear all 4 tires. After about 30 minutes of mowing I checked them and lowered the pressure to 13 psi rear, and 18-20 in front and it helped, but it still didn't ride as good as the Hustler, which did not have a suspension seat or the torsion forks. He offered me a new M48 with a 23 Kawi for $6000 even.

I have found out there is an Everide dealer 30 miles from here. Are they worth looking into?
I suppose I could wait, but I will have to borrow some rider, or hire my 1.25 acre vacant lot mowed since the only mower I have right now is a push mower.

xrayguy
09-08-2006, 02:03 PM
I am a homeowner with 2 acres. I bought the tiger cub with the 24 Briggs in April and have had no problems at all. Plenty of power and great deck discharge in all conditions that I've seen. Alot of people tried to steer me away from the Briggs, but I didn't feel that the Kaw was worth the extra money for my circumstances. I figure to put between 30-40 hours/year on the mower; it has 25 on it now. I paid cash and got the mower for 5800+tax. I would definitely demo the Scag before buying. Just my two cents.

S man
09-08-2006, 07:51 PM
are gravelys worth it? They sell em on speedway sales for $6200 for a 48" w/ 19 kawi.

Elkbow
09-08-2006, 11:35 PM
I have been offered a brand new Hustler Z with a 60" XR7 deck and 23 hp Kawasaki, Flex Forks, and a Personalized Bumper with my name on it for $6799 including tax. Is this a good deal? Is it a good mower for use in Texas? Does it really need a bigger engine, or is 23 hp enough?

Envy Lawn Service
09-09-2006, 02:22 AM
I have been offered a brand new Hustler Z with a 60" XR7 deck and 23 hp Kawasaki, Flex Forks, and a Personalized Bumper with my name on it for $6799 including tax. Is this a good deal? Is it a good mower for use in Texas? Does it really need a bigger engine, or is 23 hp enough?

Hustler is a good company... not one better I don't think.
They seem to do their best to take care of their customers.

If it was a Super Z I would laught about 23hp. Most of those owners are complaining about 27-30hp not being enough. The fast drive system takes a lot of power they say.

If I were buying a Hustler, it would be the Hustler Z XR7 like that one.
I don't need to go 15mph.

But for my application here, I need more than 23hp. I have 25hp now on a 60" and that's enough for regular work. But there are times I work it hard and wish I had more.

The XR7 deck has exhibited some cutting problems, but it seems that's in northern turf. Research it, but I think the guys cutting warm season grasses are happy.

So if you cut all weekly lawns and do not have much that grows fast where you have to cut off a lot, you might be OK so much of the time with the 23hp that it really wouldn't matter. A lot of guys are satisfied with them, else they would not make them you know?

I guess a good guide would be that if you thought the 19hp 52" had plenty of power, you would be happy with the 23/60 power. The HP to Deck ratio is actually a little better on the 23/60, plus due to the longer blade length they are able to gear them lower at the pulley and still achieve the same tip speed. So it would feel a bit stronger and take a bit more load to pull it down.

As for the options, I have no experience with the flex forks, but I still think the full suspension seat would be my choice for the most important accessory. I think I'd rather have that than the flex forks and personalized bumper.

J&R Landscaping
09-09-2006, 07:51 PM
I have been offered a brand new Hustler Z with a 60" XR7 deck and 23 hp Kawasaki, Flex Forks, and a Personalized Bumper with my name on it for $6799 including tax. Is this a good deal? Is it a good mower for use in Texas? Does it really need a bigger engine, or is 23 hp enough?

For a 60" deck, the Minimum HP I would want is 25. YES, 23 hp on a 60" IS UNDERPOWERED IMHO!

QualityLawnCare4u
09-09-2006, 08:26 PM
Our local dealer is advertising a JD 717A for 5995 brand new. One of the best mowers I ever owned non barred.

Envy Lawn Service
09-09-2006, 08:42 PM
Our local dealer is advertising a JD 717A for 5995 brand new. One of the best mowers I ever owned non barred.

They have made some changes that I do not like to the 717 and 727.

corey1977
09-10-2006, 09:10 PM
just go to lowes or home chepo and buy 2 for the price of one lol

corey1977
09-10-2006, 09:10 PM
just go to lowes or home chepo and buy 2 for the price of one lol

Elkbow
09-11-2006, 07:20 PM
just go to lowes or home chepo and buy 2 for the price of one lol

For the price of some of the professional models, ($8000+) that might be a cheaper way to go in the long run!

Willofalltrades
09-11-2006, 08:27 PM
So if the machine isn't going to be used commercial I don't believe it will be THAT big of a deal if you got a slightly underpowered machine. Do you not have the time to buz over the property a second time if things get hairy. I'm just saying you are not RELYING on power its just a convenance. The Mini Z should do the job great for you. The Scag should do it just as well. The Tank... probably no different. Sounds like you have a decient dealer down there. Mine won't let you get out the parking lot with a machine unless you buy it. I vote the Hustler or Scag you will be satisfied with both.

Also If you have a Walker dealer down there look at the MB. You can get that with a 48" side discharge deck for around $5500-$6000. Later you can get a 56" deck for it for around $1800. Not to mention you can get attachments for this machine.

zim bob the landscaper
09-11-2006, 08:55 PM
are gravelys worth it? They sell em on speedway sales for $6200 for a 48" w/ 19 kawi.
they look real nice run smooth and very compact. i wouldn't get the 19kawi when i could get a 21kawi for $300 more. thats the one i might get or a new lazer. probably getting 2 commercials next year and many more resi.

Envy Lawn Service
09-11-2006, 09:43 PM
Also If you have a Walker dealer down there look at the MB. You can get that with a 48" side discharge deck for around $5500-$6000. Later you can get a 56" deck for it for around $1800. Not to mention you can get attachments for this machine.

Just curious... just what all can you get for that little bugger?

Cheffy
09-11-2006, 09:52 PM
Does it have to be brand new I have a tank M60 with 330 hours I bought it end of season last year for $4500.00 with 150 hours on it worked hard for me on my part time jobs

Elkbow
09-11-2006, 09:55 PM
Does it have to be brand new I have a tank M60 with 330 hours I bought it end of season last year for $4500.00 with 150 hours on it worked hard for me on my part time jobs

I would be interested in a deal like that, if I could find one. I do not mind waiting a few months for a really good deal. I just have not seen many good deals on gently used ZTR's around here. Seems like most of them have been "rode hard and put up wet".

Cheffy
09-11-2006, 10:03 PM
Does any body use a dixie chopper I am trying one right now seems to have less double cutting then my tank. Not as refined though

Willofalltrades
09-12-2006, 11:15 AM
Just curious... just what all can you get for that little bugger?

Compatibility Decks: DSD36, DSD42, DML42, DSD48, DSD56
Implements/Attachments: Perfaerator™, Single stage snowblower (I doubt texas has a need) There may be more like a blower or bedshaper. I'll check when I go to the dealer today.

Envy Lawn Service
09-14-2006, 11:07 PM
Compatibility Decks: DSD36, DSD42, DML42, DSD48, DSD56
Implements/Attachments: Perfaerator™, Single stage snowblower (I doubt texas has a need) There may be more like a blower or bedshaper. I'll check when I go to the dealer today.

Almost forgot to say thanks...

I was thinking it would be cool to have one unit, a pair of decks, Perfaerator™, a spreader, bedshaper, and maybe the front tine rake dethatcher.

noseha
09-15-2006, 05:59 AM
are gravelys worth it? They sell em on speedway sales for $6200 for a 48" w/ 19 kawi.
WHAT IS SPEEDWAY SALES? NEVER HEARD OF THEM. I WOULD SAY THE 19 HP SHOULD BE PLENTY. I RUN THREE GRAVELYS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE FROM, ARE YOU AROUND FT. WAYNE, IN. MUTTONS BEST DEAL IN THE WORLD!! :p

alot2lurn
09-25-2006, 11:36 PM
Dude I would'nt get a 52" mower with a 19 hp. I have a 19 kaw. on my Scag TC 48" . IMO you'll regularly feel underpowered.My next mower will have the largest engine avalible.You cant have to much power.