Who rebuilds/overhauls current small air cooled engines?

[pugs]

I am just curious. Who still rebuilds them. Where are you located at and what is the average shop labor rate in your area.

Also when you rebuild what parts do you replace? I know there are some out there that just stick new rings in and call it a day...Not really a rebuild/overhaul...

My dad used to overhaul a few K181's a month back when Kohler generators were the norm. When he did this he would bore the cylinder, put in new piston, rings, rod...I assume he would probably do a valve job at the same time.

But anymore with the cost of parts and labor its just not cost effective to do it at least in this neck of the woods. Our shop rate is 60/hr and thats probably average or below average around here.

Usually a complete engine is the way to go...only way with Kawasaki or Honda. Sure you could overhaul some of the larger ones for less than a new one but you get a 2 year warranty with the new one.

[lawnmaniac883]

Small air cooled engines are not worth paying someone to overhaul for you anymore. If you overhaul yourself then you come out ahead but not when paying to have it done.

[khouse]

a lot of engines only need a set of rings and valve job.
each engine is different. i would say that most of the time on kohler k series, wisconsin's and onans where these engines are built tough it's better to rebuild them. these engines cost 1000 on up to even 3000+ for a wisconsin.
on aluminum single cylinder engines you may want to look at replacing if the cost of the rebuild is close to the new cost.

[AAELI]

I will rebuild for myself but if I find the cost of parts and labor exceeds 50% of new I generally just keep it for spare parts. Our labor is $60 per hour.

Most 2 cycle engines that I rebuild for customers get new crankshaft bearings and oil seals along with necessary parts to get it up and running. Piston and rings most often replaced along with carb OH and new fuel lines & filters. I generally have to check shafts, gearcases, clutch/clutch drum/bearings for wear. If the overall condition of the machine warrants the 50% cost then proceed. Otherwise it becomes a costly hobby.

A few customers will put up the cash to rebuild at 50% of a new one but not much more than that. I give 90 days warranty on parts and labor.

[Restrorob]

Same as khouse, Only the old cast iron block engines. All others are either short-blocked or replaced with new.

[tomo]

Hello, as every body has stated, it generally is best to short block etc .In my particular case when either parts r up to 5x the price of usa or if i import air freight is expensive.
1/ Do u know of any parts houses that will use U.S. postal [economy surface--sea freight] kohler parts.
2/ as we know not all areas of kohler engines r reworkable [ch25s] What is the best solution to reworking main bearing suface in block and closure plate.
3/my solution for [2] would be to ream crank tunnel oversize and then to metal spray crank mains to o/size. Problem with this is the crank gear is a heat and shrink fit with no key way 4 location.MAJOR stubbling block. Could convert to key way with a slight press fit. In other threads it has mentioned crank and cam grs suffer from cracking [worrying ] .
4/Any suggestions .
thanks tomo:waving: :waving:

[Restrorob]

Well tomo, I checked with 4 suppliers and none will ship overseas because of the expense.

As far as the crankshaft, All I can say is that would have to be a good machinist to remove the cam gear and get it back in the precise position not to throw cam timing out.

For the block, If you can get your hands on a Briggs & Stratton "L" head service manual part# 270962 It gives instructions and pictures for replacing the flywheel end crank bushing.
One may be able to machine the Kohler block to take a bushing like the Briggs, BUT the Briggs bushing is not just a standard brass bushing. It's a aluminum backed impregnated bushing, I don't know if you could find a similar type in the right inside diameter to fit the Kohler crank at a bearing house or not.

Sorry I'm not much help on this one but never had to deal with one in this way before.

Good luck

[sawman65]

the kaw are not rebuildable cant even get a shot block for them.kohler warns against it. briggs are made with the overhaul in mind,even the valve guides are replacable

[J&R Landscaping]

the kaw are not rebuildable cant even get a shot block for them.kohler warns against it. briggs are made with the overhaul in mind,even the valve guides are replacable

From working at 2 different shops, I can say that usually when a kawasaki engine finally gives out, theres not much to rebuild. Its just all wasted. Kohlers get shortblocked and briggs get shortblocked as well.

I have gone through tech school and rebuilt well over 100 engines while in school from 10-12 grade. On some engines its easy but some its just rediculous to do. I have rebuilt a few engines since I graduated in june but they were all for personal machines (racing lawn mowers).

The shops I was employed at would either shortblock the engine or replace the engine as labor was costly. The 1st shop I was at (or 8 months) labor rate was $61.50/ hour. The shop I have been at for over 2.5 years and am still at charges $68.00 per hour. With labor rates that high and not always having enough man power to efficently turn the jobs around, we simply just shortblock or replace engines. We will open engines for internal repairs and valve adjustments when required. We will also open trannys up (on commercial wb) and replace shift forks but if it needs anything more, a new trans is how my manager wants it done.

[Mr Priceless]

From working at 2 different shops, I can say that usually when a kawasaki engine finally gives out, theres not much to rebuild. Its just all wasted.

What is your definition of when a kaw finally gives out? 500, 1000, 2000 hours?

What specifically is wasted on the engine?

I'm asking because someone is selling a rebuilt one near my area...

[GravelyNut]

Cast iron engines get rebuilt till they hit .030". On the Kohler Magnum twins, simple enough to pull the cylinders and install new at that point. A rebuild normally includes bore or hone, rings, piston(s) and pin(s), rod(s), bearings, valves and valve job, gaskets, carb overhaul, and maybe a crankshaft. Shop doesn't do them but I do. With some engines costing up to $2700, spending $1000 on parts and labor still makes sense. Most times the shop sees them only after they've thrown a rod. At that point, the only way to go is shortblock or new.

[J&R Landscaping]

What is your definition of when a kaw finally gives out? 500, 1000, 2000 hours?

What specifically is wasted on the engine?

I'm asking because someone is selling a rebuilt one near my area...

Its not so much as what is wasted on the engine, its just that the whole block and cylinders are worn or wasted where serious machining would be required. For most landscapers, they would rather spend the money for a complete new engine or a short block. Can't blame them as labor rates around here are between $69-$84 an hour.
It depends. I seen them needed at 900 hours do to a valve problem. I've seen them go at 1500 hours from being run hard and not ENOUGH maintenance. I've seen some still going good at 2400-2600 hours. From my original post, mainly speaking when the go, the throw a rod through the block. I've also seen a partial crank gear give out and put a nice weak spot on the block.

Yes, we have rebuilt some, but no were near as many kawi's as kohlers. Hope this helps....

[topsites]

I might do one myself but my own labor rates are 60 per hour, it's just as easy to buy another and go cut some grass. Might take a day or so of grass cutting to pay for it or several hours rebuilding, it gets to that point of 6 of one and a half dozen of the other, the new engine does come with a warranty, too.

The only time rebuilding might stand a chance is before she blows, once it is blown that's just too bad but so much collateral damage can happen and some isn't always apparent so the guarantee that it will run after all the trouble is slim at best. Then I don't care much for short blocking thou I can see the benefit in it, but it's a lot of work to short block an engine for the savings if it can be rebuilt it's almost the same. Not to mention the price of a short block sometimes is just as high as the long.

I used to think I'd rebuild a Tecumseh transmission but the one I busted a couple of years ago is still lying around, all it needs is 30 or so dollars in parts but you know it, yup, it's still busted :laugh:

My best case scenario is I usually order engines from S.E.W., they come with the same mfg's warranty but if something breaks I'm stuck with it because no local dealer will touch it. But for the price I've ordered two engines from them... One a 15hp Kohler (cv15t) and another a 10hp briggs (Intek pro) both ran me just over a grand total (the kohler was right at 600 the briggs around 425, that's with the shipping), and I can't beat these prices so that's how I do it.