I built a fence. It sucked!

[DynaMow]

My first fence ever built.

[DynaMow]

Solo project.

[olderthandirt]

Pics must be on there way--------other wise don't be so hard on yourself!

I don't see anything wrong

LMAO

[DynaMow]

Had to redeisgn on the fly. Because I could not get post holes in ground due to big old stumps and roots. But i finally got it.

[DynaMow]

I am up for pointers on things some of you might see.

[DynaMow]

Next week I am putting in lawn.

[Brendan Smith]

i reckon i've seen worse

[dcondon]

You did a good job!!!! NICE WORK:walking: :walking:

[DynaMow]

Well final product came out fine (it always does) but getting there I kept running into issue after issue. I will tell of a couple later.

[LindblomRJ]

Looks good.

I am scheduled to build a fence around an A/C unit either tomorrow or sometime next week.

[ACutAbovesiny]

Looks great for a first time job. Be possitive.

[olderthandirt]

vinyl or abs plastic fencing is a pain, watch for expansion that pulls the sections apart. It usually happens where the rails go into the posts. I drill down through the rails once its installed in the post and drop a piece of rebar into the hole to stop them from pulling completely apart. Just something to keep in mind for future projects if you that problem

[Roger]

How are the pickets attached to the horizontal rails? Is there a "brand" of the fencing?

I ask because I damaged a vinyl fence earlier this season while going in/out during mowing. The picket came loose from the cross member, and I have not found a way to reattach. I tried glue, but only held for a couple of weeks, now a shoestring is holding the picket in place.

I posted the situation a couple of months ago on LS, but only received answers regarding glue. That did not work, so am looking for other solutions. Apparently, the connection on this fence was some kind of mechanical connector. There are matching 1/2" to 5/8" holes in the picket and cross rail. I can only conclude that some kind of molly-bolt connector was used, and is lost inside one of the components. I cannot find any brand name anywhere on the entire fence.

Questions to fence suppliers, hardware stores, lumber yards, handyman, etc have not yielded any answers. Neither has Internet searches yielded anything. It is a big mystery.

My customer isn't upset, but I want to make a permanent fix.

Any insights?

[noseha]

Did Your Customer Like It !

[Grass Cake]

I am up for pointers on things some of you might see.

Decorative fences like this are not built to keep pets in.

Give yourself more room underneath the picket panels.

String it off and build one section at a time....do not set all the post first!

Concentrate on keeping the panels level.....then adjust the stepping.

When you hit a solid object...cut the post off and widen the hole for more stability.

You did fine for your first one though.

Grass Cake

[Mike33]

Looks good to me. But one piece of advise, im in the landscaing business i let fence work go to fence people.
mike

[Birdhunter1]

I guess I'm the odd man out then, I think it looks like crap.
You should have leveled the ground out first and worked hard to keep the top level all the way around the area so each section isn't at a different height.
To your defense though I think any of that fencing that is built in sections is built like crap and no matter what you do with it it's gonna look like crap in a few years. A buddy of mine built a privacy fence with wooden panels from Lowe's and while I advised him to stick build it from scratch and end up with a better fence he went with the panels instead. Within two months there was not a sinlge board he didn't have to sink a screw into to keep it together.

Like Grass Cake said it is a decorative fence not designed as a containment fence, so if the bottom is not touching or even with the ground that is ok, plant low mast flowers on each side and it would look alot better.

[lawnwizards]

I guess I'm the odd man out then, I think it looks like crap.
damn, don't be too harsh. but you are right though. i think building it yourself you can have an all level height and still have the boards go to the ground. or you can level everything first.(ugh). but it is your first time so kudos for atleast giving it a shot. next one you will be a pro at.:waving:

[DJ Contracting]

I agree with Birdhunter1. I have helped my brother-inlaw install fences on both level and uneven yards and none of them came out like that. We run lots of string and a transit scope to make sure it level and straight. I hope this was your yard and not a customers.

[Pro-Scapes]

seen alot worse thats for sure. I would of leveled the sections out a bit more. Would of bladed the back prior to fencing it off.

If the clients happy and you got paid kudos

[JimLewis]

Overall, I'd say those look pretty darn good. The picture in Post #6 shows one section of fencing on the left that doesn't look very level. But that's the only think I noticed.

[ATL Lawn]

it looks good, thats how it suppose to look, otherwise use regulat wood pickets and cut them each to match grade

[DaughtryLC]

Looks good to Me!

[LindblomRJ]

it looks good, thats how it suppose to look, otherwise use regulat wood pickets and cut them each to match grade
That is what I am doing around an A/C unit.

[sildoc]

To fix vinyl you need a butane torch. It is a pain in the watoosy because it is very easy to burn through. I would find a piece or scrap and practice. heat each spot where they are going to touch just to the point it softens and about burns through. then place and hold till it hardens. It will last for a long time but you still run chances of breaking it again. I find that where there are picket fixed or broke off, whether it be wood or vinyl, you will always have problems there.

[DynaMow]

Mac, Brendan, dcondon, LindblomRJ, ACutAbove, - Thank you

Mac, I understand what you are saying, makes alot of sense. But this fence has brackets that fasten to the post they do not run through, but if I do one that runs through I am going to use your advice.

Roger yes they are attached as a unit. I put some pieces together with vinyl cement and seems to work fine. This fence I used is as cheap as you can find, bought at Lowes and I beleive it is U S Fence Co.

noseha, yes they love it.

Grass Cake, your suggestion of building each piece at a time would of been the best way, I didn't and paid for it in the end and next time that is the way it will be done. Thank you. But as a matter of fact this fence is exactly to keep a dog in, the little 17 lb Pugh with an attitude bit the mailman so they had me build this fence, fine for a little dog, and that is why it is right on the ground.

Mike33, thank you but in growing my business I will tackle anything.

Birdhunter, First off you CANNOT level ground in all situations, I poundered that idea but it just would not work in this case, unless I built a wall at the bottom. It goes to property line with about a 2 foot drop from high point. Yes I was limited with using panels, better then angleing like most do. Not all fences can be on one level no matter what you think. You are just wrong.

lawnwizards, thank you.

DJ Contracting, It is all exactly level, on the money, used lots of string lines. Your comment about being my yard and not customers makes you a jerk in my mind. Thats why you were only the helper because you don't know jack!

Pro-Scapes thank you, just to much slope, as I did explore that way first but just not in the cards on this site.

Mr. Lewis thank you. Must be deceiving because every panel is perfectly level.

Toasty22, thank you, you are exactly right.

DaughtryLC, thank you.

Thanks all, everything I do comes out perfect in the end, no matter what I have to go through to get accomplish that.

[bigviclbi]

i did 2 of those home depot fences that have brackets instead of routered posts. its cheaper but takes longer to install. you did take your time and dropped the sections evenly, but its alot better if you can get them all level on top. the fence that you used will fall apart in about two years, the pickets are glued to the rails. next time ggo to a fence store and get a wholesale price with better quality fencing, and your finished product will look better. fencing keeps me busy and i do a lot of it now after a few you will whip right threw them.

[olderthandirt]

Craig next time you get a fence project contact me, I would like the oppertunity to work with you on one where we can fashion the lay of the land and then build to suit.

[DJ Contracting]

Sorry if I offended you, however you did post with pics and I just gave you my 2 cents, as far as being a helper I'd have to say that I'm the first one he calls cause he prefers to work with somebody he does not have to watch all the time, and he can leave when he needs to do something else, again Sorry.

[DJ Contracting]

Just to add what I meant about being level and straight, I'm sure that the fence is level and straight, however there are ways to step down a fence to the terrain and keep the panels uniform, instead of having one up high one low and back up again.

[DynaMow]

Just to add what I meant about being level and straight, I'm sure that the fence is level and straight, however there are ways to step down a fence to the terrain and keep the panels uniform, instead of having one up high one low and back up again.
It is not one up then down then up and so on only on the corner where there is no choice.

[DynaMow]

Craig next time you get a fence project contact me, I would like the oppertunity to work with you on one where we can fashion the lay of the land and then build to suit.
Thanks Mac I will certainly do that. Also if you have anything that you think I would be interested in learning from you (one of your jobs) let me know I would love to come and learn from you.

[ozd12005]

With all the landscape work that needs to be done I cant see how or why you didn't have all the cross boards & pickets at the same height, If you like the step down look (sections between posts) you should have went with an even drop looks like they are inches off

[kootoomootoo]

start with this .............

[DynaMow]

start with this .............
Because if i would of made them the same the right side of that panel would of been about 10 - 12 inches of the ground, which you cannot see from this particular picture.

[sheshovel]

I still do not understand the elevation changes in this fence and why you could not adjust the ground rather than the panels so they came out all the same at least on the main part of the fencing areas.

[kootoomootoo]

Because if i would of made them the same the right side of that panel would of been about 10 - 12 inches of the ground, which you cannot see from this particular picture.


dont see your logic here ...fences are built with equal picket spacing ...picket to picket and picket to post.

If you moved that section 2 inches to right how in the world would it go from where it is now to 12inches off the ground. ..impossible.
I am installing 22 sections this week ...black 36in picket rakeable over 80 feet each side. Drops about 18 inches over 80 feet.
Commercial job.

[Splicer]

Honestly...and this is NOT personal brother...I don't like it...The panels should all line up...Not step...If the pictures are a bad angle...please repost new pics...

[kootoomootoo]

Honestly...and this is NOT personal brother...I don't like it...The panels should all line up...Not step...If the pictures are a bad angle...please repost new pics...


If the fence is not rakeable they have to step. That fence probably drops 9inches over 24 feet.

ie it should step down 4.5 inches twice.

[Chop Stuff Up]

dont see your logic here ...fences are built with equal picket spacing ...picket to picket and picket to post.

If you moved that section 2 inches to right how in the world would it go from where it is now to 12inches off the ground. ..impossible.
I am installing 22 sections this week ...black 36in picket rakeable over 80 feet each side. Drops about 18 inches over 80 feet.
Commercial job.


I think he mis-understood the picture... You're talking about the distance from picket to post, like I've illustrated with the red arrows, right?

[Grass Cake]

Grass Cake, your suggestion of building each piece at a time would of been the best way, I didn't and paid for it in the end and next time that is the way it will be done. Thank you. But as a matter of fact this fence is exactly to keep a dog in, the little 17 lb Pugh with an attitude bit the mailman so they had me build this fence, fine for a little dog, and that is why it is right on the ground.


Then you've put a round peg in a square hole...it's only a matter of time until it slips through.

[kootoomootoo]

I think he mis-understood the picture... You're talking about the distance from picket to post, like I've illustrated with the red arrows, right?


yes...........................

[DynaMow]

yes...........................
now I got ya. yes you are right and this is where I screwed up. Earlier someone stated to not put all posts in first, work one section at a time. That is one of the mistakes made.

THE STEP DOWN IS NECESSARY FOLKS, YOU CANNOT LEVEL OUT ALL GROUND IN ALL APPLICATIONS AND THIS IS ONE! IF YOU SAW PROPERTY YOU WOULD AGREE. ISEE FENCES ALL THE TIME AND NOT MANY ARE ON ONE LEVEL ALL THE WAY AROUND> LOOK AROUND YOUR AREA AND YOU WILL SEE THAT> HELL MOST ARE ANGLED! I WILL TAKE PICS AND PROVE THAT!

Now back to spacing. Here is why I say it sucked. When I looked at the panels I was going to use they were 3 x 8. Well 8' does not mean 8', it means 8' with the post. I MADE THE MISTAKE OF NOT MEASURING THEM! Put posts in at 8' 4.5" apart (4.5" is for post a expansion gap) got the panels and quickly realized I screwed up. Now what? So here is what I did. i ended up joining 2 panels together with 2x3 lumber inside the cross members. YES BIG TIME SCREW UP!!!!! So I figured this was the best solution, that is why there is different gaps from post to picket. I learned a very big lesson here. It took kootoo to see that, nice eyes man, you must know your stuff.

One last thought that dog ain't slippling through anywhere.

Anyways, I really do appreciate all comments here, as I do realize you all are just trying to help me. Its the smart assed comments that aren't needed (DJ). I do not mind anyone pointing out my mistakes but people that keep saying it should be all one level just do not know.

[Birdhunter1]

Craig I wasn't saying it should all be one level but if you had stick built it out of wood and not used cheap ass panels you would have had an even contour instead of a chop job looking top rail.
As far as not being able to level the ground I do realize not all ground can be perfectly leveled all the way around the perimeter but you can at least dress it up enough to where it evenly contours a little bit. I realize you can't get a bobcat or tractor everywhere but if you can walk to it then a wheelbarrow and a rake can get there too! Good prep work makes the finish project look great, bad prep work and well................. go back to your first post full of pics!

I can say one thing, you would have an extremely difficult time collecting a single dollar from me on a job like that.

[DynaMow]

Craig I wasn't saying it should all be one level but if you had stick built it out of wood and not used cheap ass panels you would have had an even contour instead of a chop job looking top rail.
As far as not being able to level the ground I do realize not all ground can be perfectly leveled all the way around the perimeter but you can at least dress it up enough to where it evenly contours a little bit. I realize you can't get a bobcat or tractor everywhere but if you can walk to it then a wheelbarrow and a rake can get there too! Good prep work makes the finish project look great, bad prep work and well................. go back to your first post full of pics!

I can say one thing, you would have an extremely difficult time collecting a single dollar from me on a job like that.
OK I give. All you experts tell me how to accomplish this task. 2 feet of drop every 25 ft of run. You all say it should be leveled but not one of you has explained how to bring the level up 30" without building a wall or a hill in neighbors yard. Some come on experts tell me how not just what I should of done but how to accomplish it. Should be interesting on just how many of you advise givers can explain how to bring up 30 inches without a wall or hill on outside of fence. Especially from OL Time he seems to know his stuff.

[DynaMow]

This pic as example. What, short section from house to walk so all level? Build wall right of walk to get soil level up? or leave bottom of fence 12 - 15 inches from ground? Look at the drop here and this is only a 6 ft run. Seriously I do not know what I could of done different here. Lets hear it.

[Splicer]

Craig...you have some pickets in the dirt and others 6+ inches (guessing from your last photo) above ground level...I am not there so cannot comment on what needs to be done...I am not a fence builder...but i do know what a good fence looks like...Yours looks good but it is not right if that makes sense...

[olderthandirt]

This threads went to he!l, But the only thing you could have done is use a longer posts and leveled the top all along and fill in at the bottom. You could have done it gradually so not to have as many step down. Or stick build it to the contour of the property. Which IMO would have looked the best but cost the most. I also would have tried a different kind of fence, a board on board shadow box built to the contour would have looked good, but its what kind of budget you have to work with that will determine most everything.

[DynaMow]

This threads went to he!l, But the only thing you could have done is use a longer posts and leveled the top all along and fill in at the bottom. You could have done it gradually so not to have as many step down. Or stick build it to the contour of the property. Which IMO would have looked the best but cost the most. I also would have tried a different kind of fence, a board on board shadow box built to the contour would have looked good, but its what kind of budget you have to work with that will determine most everything.
You know Mac thats why you are so respected by this community because you give your honest opinion, offer advice, know your stuff, and do not disrespect and bad mouth. Thank you sir.

[Splicer]

I certainly meant you no disrespect my friend...:drinkup:

[Branching Out]

WOW...I say split the difference and make them level. It's only a couple sections. Lower some (including soil) and raise others till it looks presentable. That is NOT presentable. Sorry my friend. it's not......

[DynaMow]

I certainly meant you no disrespect my friend...:drinkup:
I did not take any disrespect from you sir, thank you

[kootoomootoo]

Its just minor stuff that I am talking about. I see way way worse patios and nobody says a word. They even refer them to their friends.

Nuttin wrong with stepping it down. I would have just got a little more technical on the measurements/heights.
If you used a field level you could work out your post heights way before you dig any holes.

[DynaMow]

Its just minor stuff that I am talking about. I see way way worse patios and nobody says a word. They even refer them to their friends.

Nuttin wrong with stepping it down. I would have just got a little more technical on the measurements/heights.
If you used a field level you could work out your post heights way before you dig any holes.
yeah I see what you are saying, that makes sense.
I didn't post these for praise, I posted them for constructive help so hat if I ever get a chance to build another one I have more knowledge, and can do a better job. But for the ones that say it is terrible are not any help to me. Again thanks to those that are posting that are trying to help not just beat me up.

Now I am going to put up gutter at this property. Never did it before either.

[olderthandirt]

Now I am going to put up gutter at this property. Never did it before either.

I would seriously consider subbing out the gutters. Unless you have a machine to make them 1 piece they more than likely will end up leaking, + the pitch has to be right etc.etc. There's a couple places thats all they do and after pricing materials for a couple homes it it only cost a few $$$$ more to have the pro do the work. Just my 2 cents

[DynaMow]

I would seriously consider subbing out the gutters. Unless you have a machine to make them 1 piece they more than likely will end up leaking, + the pitch has to be right etc.etc. There's a couple places thats all they do and after pricing materials for a couple homes it it only cost a few $$$$ more to have the pro do the work. Just my 2 cents
Suggestion taken called a company this morning meeting at property wed morning, thank you.

[Surf'n'Turf]

I would seriously consider subbing out the gutters. Unless you have a machine to make them 1 piece they more than likely will end up leaking, + the pitch has to be right etc.etc. There's a couple places thats all they do and after pricing materials for a couple homes it it only cost a few $$$$ more to have the pro do the work. Just my 2 cents

Just had new ones put in on my house (completed an upstairs addition) and it was around $500.00. Guys were in and out in less than half a day. Mac is correct...not even worth attempting by myself.

[MarkintheGarden]

I can say one thing, you would have an extremely difficult time collecting a single dollar from me on a job like that.[/QUOTE]


Rude and stupid, my favorite combination.
Of course you would not pay for it, it is not on your property, it does not conform to your needs and requests. If you could read then you would know how this fence got built according to what the person who did pay for it wanted and needed.

Aside from the comments by kootoomootoo, you have a good fence there.

Thanks for having the courage to post the photos of a completed job that you are not completely satisfied with. These posts and photos provide a good lesson in fence construction to those of us who wish to learn. For those of us who wish to bash it is an oppertunity to display ignorance while exposing a rude and negative personality.

This fence will look much better when the landscape is completed. White vinyl fencing just stands out too much, imperfections broadcast themselves.

I admire someone who is willing to go out on the limb, first by taking a job he has never done before and secondly for facing the critics and bashers, good for you Craig, you will go far.

[tdf]

To stair step fence panels you find the total drop from the first post to the last, then divide that number between the drops

example= On your 3 section run if the ground drops 12 inches from point a to point be then your drop at post 2 would be 6" and post 3 would be 6".
If you had a 4 section run you would have 4" drops, they all would be even.

Hope this helps, TF

[tdf]

I mean point b