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View Full Version : What to do, I'm I asking too much


tacoma200
09-15-2006, 07:56 PM
Well I wanted to get your honest opinion on some pictures. I'm not a rich man by any means and I have alot invested in this mower and with the help of the factory the cut is better but I'm still not satisfied totally. I wanted you to look as some pictures and let me know if I'm being unreasonable or should I get rid of this mower and try to get at least some of my money back. I have made all the modifacations that the factory suggested, keep blades sharp, checked the pitch, cleaned the deck and its still just an ok cut, if that. I have no interest in bashing a good company but as conditions improve I thought the cut would also. Some of my customers would never notice the uneven cut but alot would drop me. I have several pictures from today. The weather has improved but there is still some moisture in the grass but conditions are not going to get much better. Should I ask the factory to buy if back. I have put so many hours working on this mower and sometimes it cuts ok but I can't count on it at all times. This is not a bashing thread and I have lots of good things to say about this mower but I can't keep my customers happy and stand to loose alot of money for a mower that is still basically a rough cut mower. At times it cuts ok, in a perfect manicured lawn but this type uneven cut happens too often for it to be reliable.

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 07:59 PM
another pic

lawnmaniac883
09-15-2006, 08:00 PM
It aint the mower its the grass type, I get the same things down here with my 44z, just double cut or use string trimmer on it.

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:09 PM
I am going at a slow rate of speed and this grass is only 6 days old cutting at 3.25" by the guage which is off a bit. This is as easy of mowing as I'm going to get. I have intalled the lift kit and triangles, cleaned the deck, put new blades on, keep the rpms up, took off the flex forks, etc. Some lawns it does good but never great. This lawn should be a piece of cake. I have mowed this lawn with the Lazer for years and it never misses a blade and they are all cut even.

Tn Lawn Man
09-15-2006, 08:10 PM
It is always hard to tell from photos, but, it looks like it is the turf.

They appear to be those crazy weedy grasses that bend over like cir de sole acrobat contortionists. They will lay down as the mower goes over them and pop out the back uncut or 1/2 cut at best.

You either have to slow way down or double cut to get them all.

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:13 PM
Here is the Lazer in much worse conditions (2 weeks)

Pietro
09-15-2006, 08:15 PM
thats tough, if u did it with the lazer with no probs, its gotta be the hustler.....did u try using different blades? Are u using high lifts?

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:21 PM
It is always hard to tell from photos, but, it looks like it is the turf.

They appear to be those crazy weedy grasses that bend over like cir de sole acrobat contortionists. They will lay down as the mower goes over them and pop out the back uncut or 1/2 cut at best.

You either have to slow way down or double cut to get them all.
If its the turf why doesn't this happen with the Lazer. Why do some of my customer ask me to mow with the red one. How much slower can I go than 5-6 mph. I may have problems with clippings sometimes bu the Lazer leaves a crisp cut in any thing. NEVER and I mean NEVER has I had a quality cut issue with the Lazer. I can idle around at 2/3 trottle and cut this like carpet. Been doing this lawn for years with no problems. I agree the turf is not the best but thats what we deal with in this area. Check this picture of a back yard I was getting ready to cut with the Lazer

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:24 PM
One pass with the Lazer blowing clippings into the fence but still a perfect cut. Sorry if I seem to be complaining a bit but I've tried everything to get a good cut and I have worked with the company and done what they recomended. It's just been a bad day for me trying to get a good cut. It has dried alot so I can't keep blameing the bad cut on the weather. I am telling you without a doubt and I can look up pics of the same lawn wit the Lazer to show you it isn't the turf.

dvmcmrhp52
09-15-2006, 08:25 PM
If you were cutting a well maintained lawn you might have an issue, however that lawn in the pictures is hardly well maintained from a fert and squirt standpoint.
You're cutting crabgrass and what you've got in the first pic is pretty normal.

Pietro
09-15-2006, 08:31 PM
I would simply write hustler a letter explain your situation and disappoinement. See what they can do for you. Ive got a Z Master and I wanna buy a Lazer next, Ive heard nothing but good about them.

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:34 PM
Same lawn with the Lazer. Set at 3.25 but the lazer will mow it perfectly at any height at least to 4". I've been doing this for years with no problem.

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:35 PM
If you were cutting a well maintained lawn you might have an issue, however that lawn in the pictures is hardly well maintained from a fert and squirt standpoint.
You're cutting crabgrass and what you've got in the first pic is pretty normal.
They don't do the "well maintained lawn" thing here. Hustler advertizes this as a deck that can handle all conditions The guy cuts it himself with a JD from home depot and has no problem

Pietro
09-15-2006, 08:43 PM
Just wondering why did u get a Hustler when youve had such success with the Exmark? Trade the hustler back and get another Lazer Z

tacoma200
09-15-2006, 08:48 PM
Just wondering why did u get a Hustler when youve had such success with the Exmark? Trade the hustler back and get another Lazer Z
The triton was giving problems and I heard nothing but good from the Huslter so I switched. I would buy a Exmark when they fix the Triton maybe. I'm not trying to bash Hustler, I'm just not having luck on most of the lawns here. Some lawn do ok but never great. My mistake.

Pietro
09-15-2006, 08:57 PM
Hmm. Well I guess just let it be a lesson to you....I alway demo machines on my toughest lawns...

MJB
09-15-2006, 09:11 PM
The triton was giving problems and I heard nothing but good from the Huslter so I switched. I would buy a Exmark when they fix the Triton maybe. I'm not trying to bash Hustler, I'm just not having luck on most of the lawns here. Some lawn do ok but never great. My mistake.

Tacoma, Sorry your having such a hard time. I think if you retake those pics with the Hustler making 1 strip, and the Exmark making another pass so we can see the difference in 1 pic. I know your tired of dealing with this. I was mowing the other day on a park with real crappy conditions all kinds of crabgrass fescue etc and I used both mowers side by side and they both stunk. I'd show you the pic but it is too embarassing. This is the same type a grass I tried the Cub Tank on with the mulcher and it did the same just laying it over. I have no choice but to double cut everything here, even the good turf.

In regards to the new Triton I have yet to see one demoed. I was interested but the Exmark dealer is to far away and they are jerks bigtime.

Tharrell
09-15-2006, 09:21 PM
That looks like the cut we got when some fella from Ga. left a demo at the shop a while back. Nobody liked the cut and the deck clogged up all the time.
It was fun to spin around in the gravel though! Hey, maybe they sold you that one!
Your pics of the Lazer cut look like what I do with my Bob-Cat walkbehind.
I didn't think a Z could match my wb cut. I know Hustler wouldn't like to hear these negative comments but, sometimes the truth hurts.

MountainMow
09-15-2006, 09:24 PM
Just from the first two pics, I dont think I'd be happy with the cut.

topsites
09-15-2006, 09:27 PM
It aint the mower its the grass type, I get the same things down here with my 44z, just double cut or use string trimmer on it.

That's what I'm saying too, it used to bite me until one day I simply accepted the fact that double cuts would be standard for all customers and ever since then the problem has virtually gone away.

The only other thing I can recommend is this:
Whatever your blade height is currently you need to keep but raise your deck and lower your blades at the same time and do both of this as much as you can get away with, so you're pulling your blades out from inside that deck which has been my experience that the further up inside your deck the blades are, the worse the quality of the cut. Now once you do this you will likely strike a few obstacles, I will tell you that a lower blade will strike obstacles that the deck cleared where before it didn't so it takes some getting used to and there is a noticeable difference in quality but again, some things are as good as they get and no matter the machine it just don't get no better, I guess we never noticed these things until now dunno...

Jason Rose
09-15-2006, 10:06 PM
Iv'e never had a mower cut even as good as your hustler pics... Iv'e had an Exmark, but it had the tri-crapage deck. It was packed full of crap in minutes if it was a little wet and couldn't cut thin weeds even low and slow. My Dixon's don't do well with weeds either and are only good for weekly maintenance. Not to say I can't bush hog too, but it's slow and it may take 2 passes to get it all. Iv'e tried to complain about cut quality too. You know what answers I get?

You are trying to cut too much. It's too wet. Mowers are designed to only cut 1/3 of the grass blade at a time and only dry grass.

I'm shocked that hustler is helping as much as they are with this kit for free and everything. I'd never expect any mower to cut tall wet weeds at 5 to 6 mph cleanly, let alone discharge with no clumps. Why your exmark can is beyond me, like I said, I had a tri-vantage and it was worthless. Is there THAT much difference between it and the ultracut?

brucec32
09-15-2006, 10:14 PM
Not a hustler basher. But I've thought about buying one more than once and every time I do research on them I hear too many cut quality or discharge dispersal complaints and so I've never bought one, even though there is a dealer 3 miles from my house and the closest Exmark is about 15 or more miles. Exmark isn't perfect, but at least I can trust the cut quality. All the speed in the world isn't helpful if you have to double cut. Some people love the Hustlers, but I do seem to hear more cut quality problems. The word I would use would be "inconsistent".

I'd expect to cut really tall growing weed grasses and have some uncut stringers, but not with good turf quality grass. Expecially with sharp blades on.

I have found that some mowers cut better at lower heights than at higher ones, and vice versa. Air flow and deck design differences, I suppose.

D and H Seasonal Services
09-15-2006, 10:15 PM
Hey Tacoma,


I have the Hustler Super-Z 28HP-EFI with the 66" deck and I agree with you 100%. I have had nothing but problems with the cut and the deck clogging up ALL the time. I have only put 38 hours on it and have just gotten so frustrated with it that I parked it and replaced it. I still have it setting under cover. I am hoping either Hustler or my dealer will buy it back. I did ask the dealer for a demo but they do not want to get thier machine dirty.

puppypaws
09-15-2006, 11:10 PM
Well I wanted to get your honest opinion on some pictures. I'm not a rich man by any means and I have alot invested in this mower and with the help of the factory the cut is better but I'm still not satisfied totally. I wanted you to look as some pictures and let me know if I'm being unreasonable or should I get rid of this mower and try to get at least some of my money back. I have made all the modifacations that the factory suggested, keep blades sharp, checked the pitch, cleaned the deck and its still just an ok cut, if that. I have no interest in bashing a good company but as conditions improve I thought the cut would also. Some of my customers would never notice the uneven cut but alot would drop me. I have several pictures from today. The weather has improved but there is still some moisture in the grass but conditions are not going to get much better. Should I ask the factory to buy if back. I have put so many hours working on this mower and sometimes it cuts ok but I can't count on it at all times. This is not a bashing thread and I have lots of good things to say about this mower but I can't keep my customers happy and stand to loose alot of money for a mower that is still basically a rough cut mower. At times it cuts ok, in a perfect manicured lawn but this type uneven cut happens too often for it to be reliable.What hole is your pin in that grass looks like it has been chewed off instead of cut, I'll swear the cut looks closer with the Exmark.

lordmaximus240
09-15-2006, 11:15 PM
exmark 48hp hydro cuts like a dream I have no desire for a rider, heard too many complaints. whether its deck issues blades or whatever. Stick with what works and give them a few years to work out the bugs. Never buy new model first year.

MJB
09-15-2006, 11:27 PM
Hey Tacoma,


I have the Hustler Super-Z 28HP-EFI with the 66" deck and I agree with you 100%. I have had nothing but problems with the cut and the deck clogging up ALL the time. I have only put 38 hours on it and have just gotten so frustrated with it that I parked it and replaced it. I still have it setting under cover. I am hoping either Hustler or my dealer will buy it back. I did ask the dealer for a demo but they do not want to get thier machine dirty.

Thats a money making machine sitting under the cover. I bought one and now have 116 hrs . I double cut everything and do it faster than most other mowers single cut. You must be in heavy wet grass up there. Don't give up on it. Are you mulching or side discharging ?

Jpocket
09-15-2006, 11:35 PM
I know what your talking about...I have a LAZER ultra cut and it does the same thing...I just chalk it up as normal. the only time any mower cuts perfect is on the first 2 lawns of the day with ultra sharp blades. The rest it's "DOUBLE CUT CITY"

MJB
09-16-2006, 12:11 AM
I am going at a slow rate of speed and this grass is only 6 days old cutting at 3.25" by the guage which is off a bit. This is as easy of mowing as I'm going to get. I have intalled the lift kit and triangles, cleaned the deck, put new blades on, keep the rpms up, took off the flex forks, etc. Some lawns it does good but never great. This lawn should be a piece of cake. I have mowed this lawn with the Lazer for years and it never misses a blade and they are all cut even.

Tacoma, Have you tried your Lazer blades on your Hustler ? I was looking at my Hustler wavy blades and they look identical to Exmarks mulching blades.
Just a thought I am side discharging with my Hustler using the wavy blades and they discharge great, but I still double cut because some of it lays over.
But it does it with all the mowers I've used if it's wet it's heavy and lays down. I don't have the lift kit on mine just the blowout kit and 1 baffle on the left side. I will install the other baffle this weekend but I don't think it gives it more lift.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 09:36 AM
What hole is your pin in that grass looks like it has been chewed off instead of cut, I'll swear the cut looks closer with the Exmark.
I only have so many stock photo's so its hard to show them exactly in the same location but I have mowed lawns 1/2 with the Hustler and 1/2 with the Lazer and I matched the cutting height with a ruler. The Exmark always cut smoother but from a distance you could not tell. The next day or two some of the grass the Huslter pushed over and did not cut started popping up. The Huslter was set on 3.25" but it cuts about 3. The Lazer cuts closer for the same setting but I can move it up to 4 inches and still get a great smooth cut. I have no reason to lie, I own both. I have mowed this yard for years and the owner has mowed it some with his John Deere lawn tractor. Cut has never been an issue until I got the Hustler. I can tell you the owner does not like the Hustler. Never is the only word I know to tell you how often I have had cut problems with the Lazer Ultracut. Heavy clippings,yes Clumps, every now and then but the cut is always crisp. The Exmark is no super mower and it has its own problems such as it doesn't like wet grass (sticks bad) but the cut from 2.5" to over 4" is crisp as a carpet, always.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 09:39 AM
Thats a money making machine sitting under the cover. I bought one and now have 116 hrs . I double cut everything and do it faster than most other mowers single cut. You must be in heavy wet grass up there. Don't give up on it. Are you mulching or side discharging ?
I side discharge like everyone does here and I haven't given up I'm just frustrated with the Jekyl and Hyde personality of the deck. The rest of the mower is the best, most comfortable mower made in my opinion. Its just now drying out from several weeks of rain, so I thought the quality would improve. I think I have found part of the problem and will post. Thanks

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 09:59 AM
Well it left stringers on the next lawn also with much better grass. I looked under the mower and the lift kit and or the fft kit I installed must be causing some grass to stick to the under side of the deck. It is bunching up on the baffle closest to the left/middle blade that was included in the lift kit. I'm getting all kinds of unusual build up under the deck and no doubt that was alot of my problem yesterday. Its sticking in ways I've never seen on the underside of a deck. I scrape it often. I hope thats all it is. You guys claiming that I'm cutting off too much grass, your right but this was cut only 6 days ago. I have alot of lawns I mow biweekly so this one would have been a piece of cake for the Exmark. Apparently the fixes (lift kit, triangle) are causing build up problems and the deck is going to have to be scraped very often. This sounds bad but I'll be glad if when I scrape it today it starts cutting decently. I thank all of you for you comments, positive or negative. That's how I learn. The mower had been mowing fairly well since the lift kit install so hopefully it will again. MJB I will try your suggestions but the season is getting short here so I don't have alot of time to find a solution. Unfortunately my Exmark has the 15/16" center hole (05 model) so I can't use these blades on anything else. The second lawn I mowed left alot of stringers when it had cut this lawn pretty good before. I think the build up on the deck happened before I realized it and was the main cause of most of this. We will see, but I can tell you the price for all the additions and baffles to the deck are alot more build up. I'll keep you updated.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 10:04 AM
Hey Tacoma,


I have the Hustler Super-Z 28HP-EFI with the 66" deck and I agree with you 100%. I have had nothing but problems with the cut and the deck clogging up ALL the time. I have only put 38 hours on it and have just gotten so frustrated with it that I parked it and replaced it. I still have it setting under cover. I am hoping either Hustler or my dealer will buy it back. I did ask the dealer for a demo but they do not want to get thier machine dirty.
Thats not good and I was hopping it was only the 60" deck giving the problems. I talk to several others that have had the kits put in and none are completely satisfied. I really don't know what to say exept I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation and Huslter seems to be trying to help but I would take my money back (even take a loss) just to get out of all this energy I'm wasting trying to get the deck to work. Maybe they could give me a deal on the XR8 deck that I'm sure they are working on.

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 10:15 AM
I only have so many stock photo's so its hard to show them exactly in the same location but I have mowed lawns 1/2 with the Hustler and 1/2 with the Lazer and I matched the cutting height with a ruler. The Exmark always cut smoother but from a distance you could not tell. The next day or two some of the grass the Huslter pushed over and did not cut started popping up. The Huslter was set on 3.25" but it cuts about 3. The Lazer cuts closer for the same setting but I can move it up to 4 inches and still get a great smooth cut. I have no reason to lie, I own both. I have mowed this yard for years and the owner has mowed it some with his John Deere lawn tractor. Cut has never been an issue until I got the Hustler. I can tell you the owner does not like the Hustler. Never is the only word I know to tell you how often I have had cut problems with the Lazer Ultracut. Heavy clippings,yes Clumps, every now and then but the cut is always crisp. The Exmark is no super mower and it has its own problems such as it doesn't like wet grass (sticks bad) but the cut from 2.5" to over 4" is crisp as a carpet, always.Yea that one shot really looked bad it was a very uneven cut that looked like cows had been grazing it instead of a mower cutting the grass. It has got to do with the kind of grass and moisture content, I've just never seen my cut look like that it is terrible and I have been cutting damp Crab grass, Signal and Dallas grass which is some of the most aggravating junk there is to cut. I would say the grass and weeds you are cutting is thicker and more moisture laden which would make a tremendous difference, if my cut looked like that I would have the president of Hustler here with me and something would change one way or the other. I really hope the camera made it look a little worse than it actually was because I believe I could turn my blades around backwards and make the cut look that good.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 10:21 AM
Yea that one shot really looked bad it was a very uneven cut that looked like cows had been grazing it instead of a mower cutting the grass. It has got to do with the kind of grass and moisture content, I've just never seen my cut look like that it is terrible and I have been cutting damp Crab grass, Signal and Dallas grass which is some of the most aggravating junk there is to cut. I would say the grass and weeds you are cutting is thicker and more moisture laden which would make a tremendous difference, if my cut looked like that I would have the president of Hustler here with me and something would change one way or the other. I really hope the camera made it look a little worse than it actually was because I believe I could turn my blades around backwards and make the cut look that good.
I was going to say it should cut better than that with the blades backwards. I hope the build up from the lift kit is most of the problem. If I think of it I will take some pics. The build up was terrible yesterday but I didn't realize it it happened so fast. I always apprecitate you post and I mean Hustler no harm by these post, I just get frustrated. I know they are working on it. I would have probably been better off with the old deck.

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 10:23 AM
Hey Tacoma,


I have the Hustler Super-Z 28HP-EFI with the 66" deck and I agree with you 100%. I have had nothing but problems with the cut and the deck clogging up ALL the time. I have only put 38 hours on it and have just gotten so frustrated with it that I parked it and replaced it. I still have it setting under cover. I am hoping either Hustler or my dealer will buy it back. I did ask the dealer for a demo but they do not want to get thier machine dirty.
I see you are way up North also, I have the exact same mower you do in southern NC next to the SC border and I have never had any clogging issues and my deck has 140 hrs. on it and has never been scraped, it has to be the difference in grass and moisture you have there but it needs to be resolved or you need to be cutting with a different mower. How are the other cutters in you area doing with the same grass and which mower is able to handle that situation, I don't think any of them could be excellent under those circumstances.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 10:26 AM
thats tough, if u did it with the lazer with no probs, its gotta be the hustler.....did u try using different blades? Are u using high lifts?
Hustler does not offer much in the way of blade selection yet. The solid foil fusion blades are as high lift as you can get now unless you cross over to some other brand. I'll see whats available.

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 10:36 AM
I was going to say it should cut better than that with the blades backwards. I hope the build up from the lift kit is most of the problem. If I think of it I will take some pics. The build up was terrible yesterday but I didn't realize it it happened so fast. I always apprecitate you post and I mean Hustler no harm by these post, I just get frustrated. I know they are working on it. I would have probably been better off with the old deck.You need to clean under the deck as good as you possibly can, pressure wash it set it on good clean concrete and run it long enough to dry everything out completely. Get some Fluid Film and spray everything under there with a good heavy coat and let it dry over night, this will help tremendously with the grass trying to stick to the bottom of the deck. I am going to do this to mine at the end of cutting season which I cut into December a lot of years.

Mark889
09-16-2006, 11:02 AM
Your actually supposed to apply fluid film to a fairly wet metal surface. As for the cut quality issues, I demoed a 60" 27HP unit and noticed the same thing described by everyone with the XR7. I will not buy one because of this reason. I dont think your over reacting at all tacoma. The reason why its cutting bad is just because the mower is not a good match for the type of grass your trying to cut. On one bermuda lawn I cut, the cut and discharge were amazing at 15mph. On most northern cool season grasses the cut is sub par to say the least leaving stringers & clumps everywhere. My point is, the hustler cut bermuda amazingly, but cuts other grasses like crap. Pick up another Lazer you will not be disapointed, I know I'm not.

MJB
09-16-2006, 11:37 AM
Your actually supposed to apply fluid film to a fairly wet metal surface. As for the cut quality issues, I demoed a 60" 27HP unit and noticed the same thing described by everyone with the XR7. I will not buy one because of this reason. I dont think your over reacting at all tacoma. The reason why its cutting bad is just because the mower is not a good match for the type of grass your trying to cut. On one bermuda lawn I cut, the cut and discharge were amazing at 15mph. On most northern cool season grasses the cut is sub par to say the least leaving stringers & clumps everywhere. My point is, the hustler cut bermuda amazingly, but cuts other grasses like crap. Pick up another Lazer you will not be disapointed, I know I'm not.

Mark , Do you have the new Lazer with the new Triton deck ? If so tell us how good it cuts. I was going to buy the Lazer but could not get a demo, and they are out of Ultra Cut decks except the Frontrunner has one I think.

POPO4995
09-16-2006, 12:03 PM
I dont think your over reacting. All machines, no matter what brand, are not cheap. You buy them for one purpose and if it cant deliver, maybe its time for a switch. All I will buy is John Deere, and let me tell you.... Yesterday, we cut off on average 2 to 3 inches off all the yards because it has been raining for 5 days straight. The 7 IRON and 7 IRON II decks were awesome! 6 to 7 mph and they were still cutting perfect. If you have dealer support, check a Z-Trak out! I know how frustrating a bad cut can be!

martinfan06
09-16-2006, 12:13 PM
I am going at a slow rate of speed and this grass is only 6 days old cutting at 3.25" by the guage which is off a bit. This is as easy of mowing as I'm going to get. I have intalled the lift kit and triangles, cleaned the deck, put new blades on, keep the rpms up, took off the flex forks, etc. Some lawns it does good but never great. This lawn should be a piece of cake. I have mowed this lawn with the Lazer for years and it never misses a blade and they are all cut even.

No offense but I think you just answered your own question go back to the lazer It cuts much better in your area. Just a thought what do you not like about the lazer, that you dont want to cut with it..?

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 01:06 PM
Your actually supposed to apply fluid film to a fairly wet metal surface. As for the cut quality issues, I demoed a 60" 27HP unit and noticed the same thing described by everyone with the XR7. I will not buy one because of this reason. I dont think your over reacting at all tacoma. The reason why its cutting bad is just because the mower is not a good match for the type of grass your trying to cut. On one bermuda lawn I cut, the cut and discharge were amazing at 15mph. On most northern cool season grasses the cut is sub par to say the least leaving stringers & clumps everywhere. My point is, the hustler cut bermuda amazingly, but cuts other grasses like crap. Pick up another Lazer you will not be disapointed, I know I'm not.Per instructions on Fluid Film information "can be applied over tightly adhering rust, (dry) or damp (not wet) metal surfaces and painted surfaces. You need to read before giving advice or you will confuse someone it will adhere and give better protection on a dry surface.

noseha
09-16-2006, 01:13 PM
It aint the mower its the grass type, I get the same things down here with my 44z, just double cut or use string trimmer on it.
MY 44Z CUT ABOUT THE SAME. BUT MINE DON'T CUT BUCK TAILS. I HAVE TO 2X CUT TOO!

REALSLOW
09-16-2006, 01:51 PM
I do not believe the deck has enough vaccum for some conditions. Amazing on long thin stringy bahia at 15 MPH cut short.

ChadsLawn
09-16-2006, 02:02 PM
With all the problems you've had with that mower, Id say you got a lemon. Take it back, use the one that you can depend on.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 04:48 PM
No offense but I think you just answered your own question go back to the lazer It cuts much better in your area. Just a thought what do you not like about the lazer, that you dont want to cut with it..?
The only thing I don't like about my Lazer is the ride. The cut has always been excellent. The XR7 claimed to have an excellent cut and probably does in the right grass. But Exmark quit making the Ultracut deck (on most models) and due a lot of complaints I was afraid of the new Triton decks while the XR7 was getting rave reviews. I live in a rural area and it takes along time to get the Lazer serviced (One reason I needed a second mower) so I decided to switch and get Hustler which was getting alot better reviews. Ride, handling, smoothness the Huslter is great. Couldn't believe how bad it cut our grass after all the reviews. About the time I got it Shady Brook (Lawnsite member) began to question the cut, followed by TLS and several others and none of us has been totally satisfied. The company responded quickly with some bolt in kits but they are now clogging quickly it seems and kind of defeats the purpose of the free flow deck. I actually wanted a XS Lazer but the bad reviews scared me off. I should have waited. My bad. Anyone need a yellow golf cart, very fast? I have some seeping hydraulic lines on the Lazer but its been fairly trouble free.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 04:51 PM
With all the problems you've had with that mower, Id say you got a lemon. Take it back, use the one that you can depend on.
I will if they will let me, I have plenty of pictures to back up my claim, I think I have 40 hrs on it and would take a loss but not too huge of a loss.

ChadsLawn
09-16-2006, 05:00 PM
I will if they will let me, I have plenty of pictures to back up my claim, I think I have 40 hrs on it and would take a loss but not too huge of a loss.
Who the dealer or Hustler? Either way its still under full warranty. They have to fix i or replace or refund.

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 05:27 PM
I will if they will let me, I have plenty of pictures to back up my claim, I think I have 40 hrs on it and would take a loss but not too huge of a loss.It is their responsibility to make it cut (your) grass to (your) satisfaction a bad cut means a bad deck which is under warranty, think about it a little while, it is no different than any other malfunctioning part on the machine, would you agree?

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 06:44 PM
It is their responsibility to make it cut (your) grass to (your) satisfaction a bad cut means a bad deck which is under warranty, think about it a little while, it is no different than any other malfunctioning part on the machine, would you agree?
I agree and I have some pictures to show you how fast the deck clogged up yester day. I just now took these pictures. There must be some wild air flow problems since I put the lift kit and triangle in. It didn't clog like this before. I scrape my decks very often but the XR7 is building up faster than I expected and caught me off guard . And the grass was not wet yesterday, no clumps or anything so I am amazed how fast this build up occoured. There were several big chunks that fell out that are not pictured. I knew it would get build up a little faster with the kit and triangle for the fft but not this fast and not in fairly dry grass. Its no wonder it was missing grass but I just didn't expect this much build up in fairly dry 6 day grass. Looks like cave formations or something. Wild air flow on this deck now.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 06:46 PM
More pictures of build up. I scraped the deck the day before and grass was fairly dry even though it has rained in recent days. Its got to be the add on lift kit or triangle because it was build up free to some extent before I put the factory recommended fixes in place.

Travis Followell
09-16-2006, 06:52 PM
All these problems are making us think twice about getting one. We were planning on getting one next spring but we may have to consider something else. We certainly don't want a machine that clogs and leaves a rough cut. We've got one of those in another brand and don't want another one.

tacoma, I don't blame you for wanting your money back. As much as that machine cost it should leave a perfect cut and then some. I'm sure hustler will reslove this issue to your satisfaction one way or another.

noseha
09-16-2006, 07:12 PM
My 44z Needs To Be Scraped Out Alot! The Built Up Is Twice As Bad As My 60'' Decks!

WJW Lawn
09-16-2006, 07:54 PM
Seems like a crappy deck...but the guys here made good points about the turf and how its maintained. I have some lawns that I wouldnt piss on if they were on fire, and neither would their owners...and no matter what you do they still look like crap with all the weeds and stuff. But...if your Exmark cuts it better...then...maybe I wont get a Hustler in the future lol

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 08:14 PM
Well this is what my XR7 brochure says: Versatility? The XR-7 deck will mow in any condition, any time of day and provide the finest finished appearance every time! We've spent over two years testing these new decks in every season, every condition, every grass type, every part of the country where grass is mowed. After I scraped it the mowers started mowing right again but is getting build up in strange places allready in fairly dry but lush grass. My dealer has been very nice but they don't seem to be aware of all these issues (such as the lift kit) and Huslter has tried to solve the problem and I appreciate that. I would still like to get a refund. This is just too much work for a decent cut. Here is a picture today after I scraped the deck, much better.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 08:16 PM
Still misses a few but I can live with that if I don't have to work on the deck every day. Yes the grass on the bottom of the pic has been cut and if you look at the middle of the pic you can see a few blades that stand up also. But I can live with this if it will be consistent. Set at 3.25 just like yesterday but with a clean deck.

REALSLOW
09-16-2006, 08:26 PM
Put your exmark deck on your Hustler ? See if you can trade your Hustler for a old style deck Hustler. It works great for what I do I like the XR7!

jazak
09-16-2006, 08:26 PM
That looks worse then my POS 21".;) :dizzy: Sell it and get a second EXMARK.:clapping:

Tharrell
09-16-2006, 08:34 PM
You know, you shouldn't have to take a loss. They should take it back and analyze that unit. If it were me, I would get that mower out of your hands so you could post something else.

tacoma200
09-16-2006, 08:37 PM
That last pic is just the average lawn here. No pure stands of grass to speak of in my area. I've never had trouble with any other mower here, cut wise.

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 09:32 PM
That last pic is just the average lawn here. No pure stands of grass to speak of in my area. I've never had trouble with any other mower here, cut wise.It has been wet here for the last month and a half especially when we got 6" out of that tropical depression that came through the middle of NC and we got 1.6" of rain 2 days ago. I scraped my deck this afternoon for the first time with 141 hrs. on the mower and it was not as bad as the picture you showed us, I got about half of a 5 gallon bucket out and a big part of that was under the front lip. I sharpened the blades and mowed 2 1/2 hrs. with 80% of that time being wide open and I did not have to double cut anything and it did a good job. When you can cut 15 mph and come back the next cut through and not see anything that worries you about having to go back over it then I'm satisfied, that one picture of grass you had cut actually looked like cows had grazed it off, I swear it looked like the blades were on backwards.

REALSLOW
09-16-2006, 09:42 PM
Same thing here I blow some big properties out at 15 mph with very little double cutting and the cut is acceptable not great but the bank account tells me forget quality with this mower because productivity is where this thing is KING!

puppypaws
09-16-2006, 10:05 PM
Same thing here I blow some big properties out at 15 mph with very little double cutting and the cut is acceptable not great but the bank account tells me forget quality with this mower because productivity is where this thing is KING!The cut quality may not be 100% perfect but I dang sure wouldn't be embarrassed for anybody in the commercial cutting business to see it and I am fairly particular. It would really blow peoples minds that are in the cutting business if they saw how much grass I actually cut in 2 1/2 hrs. if they can't maintain that kind of speed.

REALSLOW
09-16-2006, 10:54 PM
The cut quality may not be 100% perfect but I dang sure wouldn't be embarrassed for anybody in the commercial cutting business to see it and I am fairly particular. It would really blow peoples minds that are in the cutting business if they saw how much grass I actually cut in 2 1/2 hrs. if they can't maintain that kind of speed. Thats why I want a 72 to pick up 20% more productivity. You have a 66 right? Hustler says they are going to be working on new decks for different parts of the country. I like the XR 7 for what I do. Tall bahai with long stingers 1 pass at 12 to 15 MPH with a fairly good cut the mower blows me away.

Mickhippy
09-16-2006, 11:27 PM
I cant believe how high the blades are up from the lip of the deck! In one pick it looks almost an inch or so!
I wonder if youve tried some blades that (for want of a better word) "step" down say 1/4 to 1/2".

I think Topsites (post #20) mentioned the same sort of thing.

I have the older style deck and was having problems with stringers/weeds etc in bermuda/kykuyu. The machine came with the fusion blades with the spacer. I started using another brand of blade that has a 1/4" step down and it helped alot as the blade is that much closer to the bottom of the deck. From the pics, you could almost go 1/2" step.

If youve tried it already then fair enough but if not, give it a shot I reckon!

You must be so frustrated with this by now. Best of luck!

C.T. Lawn Care
09-17-2006, 12:07 AM
i wonder if it would make a difference with the build up if you took that baffle out between the left and center blade in the front?

Mickhippy
09-17-2006, 12:23 AM
The machine came with the fusion blades with the spacer. I started using another brand of blade that has a 1/4" step down and it helped alot as the blade is that much closer to the bottom of the deck.

I should of mentioned that I use 1/4" stepped blades with the spacers so its cutting 1/4 lower than the fusions.

MJB
09-17-2006, 12:43 AM
That last pic is just the average lawn here. No pure stands of grass to speak of in my area. I've never had trouble with any other mower here, cut wise.

Tacoma have you tried the spacer idea? It looks like you could lower your blades a 1/4 - 1/2 inch , this might help the deck height settings as well. I would like to see one of these spacers I've heard about on here. If someone has one , please post a pic of it. I could probably make one too. If the blades are turning faster than the Exmark, and the Exmark is 6 inches deep , if you lower your blades, maybe this would decrees the turbulance a tiny bit. Just a thought I will try it if I can find spacers. I have lowered the front of my deck by 1 inch with the air control blowout baffle kit, but am experiencing some of the same lift issues with the wavy blades. Hang in there a while you know if they get the cut fixed the ride and speed is worth it.

Mickhippy
09-17-2006, 04:10 AM
Its come to my attention that the new decks have longer spindle shafts so the spacers arent needed with the fusion blades. The spacers were needed on the older decks to allow for the flat fusion blades.

I would still have a go with some stepped blades, if you havent already. Like I said, 1/4" step to start and maybe give 1/2" if it measures ok. I would also try the stepped blades without the little ad ons inside the deck. Like someone said, defeats the purpose of a free flow deck I would imagine.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 09:28 AM
That's what I'm saying too, it used to bite me until one day I simply accepted the fact that double cuts would be standard for all customers and ever since then the problem has virtually gone away.

The only other thing I can recommend is this:
Whatever your blade height is currently you need to keep but raise your deck and lower your blades at the same time and do both of this as much as you can get away with, so you're pulling your blades out from inside that deck which has been my experience that the further up inside your deck the blades are, the worse the quality of the cut. Now once you do this you will likely strike a few obstacles, I will tell you that a lower blade will strike obstacles that the deck cleared where before it didn't so it takes some getting used to and there is a noticeable difference in quality but again, some things are as good as they get and no matter the machine it just don't get no better, I guess we never noticed these things until now dunno...
Well the lift kit they sent to take care of my lack of lift or vacuum lowers the front edge of the mower and the front baffle 1/2 inch so the blades seem even further up in the deck than they were originally. My Lazer has a low front lip but the baffle just in front of the blade is much higher giving the blade a clear cut at the grass (hard to explain). This deck has the lift kit so it is not typical of the XR-7. I think they should have lowered the front lift on the kit but left the front baffle a little higher to give the blade a better chance of cutting the grass which is essentially the same as lowering the blade. So they fixed one problem with the kit and it caused another. On the Hustler forum they are doing testing and they claim that the washers to lower the blade were not helping them but putting two of the triangles fixes over the free flow triangles did help. I am going to have to contact the company. I am a very mild mannered person but they don't have their act together on this deck yet. The clippings were building up in such a strange way on parts of the deck and others were left clean which tell me the air flow pattern is a mess (just a guess). Here is a link that tells the problems they are having and how they are trying to solve it
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=159519

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 09:34 AM
i wonder if it would make a difference with the build up if you took that baffle out between the left and center blade in the front?
Check post 70. I have wondered the same, it was included in the lift kit pictured in this post to help me lift up the grass for a smoother cut. But at this point I'll try any thing and hope the company gets a bette handle on this because the lift kit has helped but not solved the problem for any of the members I've talked to. Thanks.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 09:45 AM
Tacoma have you tried the spacer idea? It looks like you could lower your blades a 1/4 - 1/2 inch , this might help the deck height settings as well. I would like to see one of these spacers I've heard about on here. If someone has one , please post a pic of it. I could probably make one too. If the blades are turning faster than the Exmark, and the Exmark is 6 inches deep , if you lower your blades, maybe this would decrees the turbulence a tiny bit. Just a thought I will try it if I can find spacers. I have lowered the front of my deck by 1 inch with the air control blowout baffle kit, but am experiencing some of the same lift issues with the wavy blades. Hang in there a while you know if they get the cut fixed the ride and speed is worth it.
I think that the Lazer Ultracut deck has a low front lip and a high front baffle. With this lift kit it lowered my front lip plus my front baffle 1/2 inch so the blade is further up from the lip than ever. Yes I want to see the spacers and try that also. Would love some more input from Hustler. I would say they are baffled a bit or they would have said something. Did anyone have these problems with the old deck? Maybe I would be better with the old deck (and the 28 efi). Did you notice how odd the build up was under the deck and alot of it fell off. It looks like the air flow is all over the place and not moving the material out smoothly. I still love the ride and handling of the mower but we only have another month or so of fast growth to really find and answer or I'll be sitting wondering about this all Winter. If you find a picture of the spacer let me know. I don't know what one looks like. Thanks.

Shady Brook
09-17-2006, 11:37 AM
Tacoma

Hey buddy, sorry to hear that you are no longer satisfied with the cut after the lift kit. I really thought you had your problems solved. I must admit that I was suprised how pleased you were initially when I did not notice a significant difference, but was happy that things were working well for you.

Your pictures after scrapeing are also the ideal in my conditions. I always have some stringers through an entire pass. I also find it impossible to vac up grass that is pressed down by my tires. I know your exmark will vac up this grass, but my Super Z rarely seems able to. This makes for a real crappy look in a day or two.

I was fertilzing some accounts less then 48 hours after I mowed them and was very unhappy. We mowed these accounts when the grass was damp from morning dew, and I knew there would be some tire pressdown but; I was bagging and going slow so I had hope, but it turns out the lawns looked basically uncut! I looked at two side by side, one fertilized well with few weeds, and the other a weed mess, and both looked terrible. I think I know why you have more grass residue with your exmark then the Super Z...........Cause it is acutally cutting grass!!!!!!!! Seriously, my Old Super with Ultra highlifts always looks like it cuts the grass a half inch shorter and produces alot more residue when it is cutting exactly the same height as my XR-7. There has to be a correlation.

Anyway I was impressed by how little grass built up on the deck initially, but since adding the kit, there is a lot of buildup. I would speculate it builds up faster then my old Super Z. This is not going to help cut quality I understand, but I can't scape the deck after every yard. So in the best of conditions it will leave some stringers, and in the worst, it barely cuts the grass at all.

I will admit that I am getting some cut quality compaints on both machines, but....the Old Super ran Fusions last week instead of the Ultra highlifts in poor conditions. I can tell a difference between the cut with those two blades for sure. That being said, the old Hustler deck does not and will not cut as well as an Ultracut in my opinion.

I appreciate your posts and pictures as usual. The whole thing is so frustrateing. I am tired of experimenting, and as you say the big growth part of the season is drawing to a close. Mark my words, as the grass slows and starts to thin, this deck will have less vaccume and the cut quality will fall off even more. I hope I am wrong.

Mickhippy
09-17-2006, 12:07 PM
Tacoma have you tried the spacer idea? It looks like you could lower your blades a 1/4 - 1/2 inch , this might help the deck height settings as well.

I suggested the stepped blades 2 weeks ago. Im guessing he's tried it already? I dont know though because he seems to ignore me?

I give up!*trucewhiteflag*

Shady Brook
09-17-2006, 12:20 PM
I have not tried a stepped down blade similar to what was on the old decks from the factory. They did not cut the best for me on my old Super. I have tried spaceing the blades down both before the lift kit, and after without noticable improvement. Thanks for the suggetions.

MJB
09-17-2006, 01:04 PM
I have not tried a stepped down blade similar to what was on the old decks from the factory. They did not cut the best for me on my old Super. I have tried spaceing the blades down both before the lift kit, and after without noticable improvement. Thanks for the suggetions.

Thanks for your reply. I guess it's back to the drawing board. I am into the slow period with cool temps and wetter conditions and both mowers are giving me trouble laying over the grass. I went to side discharge on the Hustler and the cut quality is like everyone elses on 1 pass. So I will keep double cutting. Good thing up here that double is the norm for everyone who isn't bagging. In fact every job I bid is bid with the xtra time for double cutting. I am turning work down every week as it is. But I don't like the side discharge cut as well as with the mulching kit. Don't get excited it still misses a lot on the 1st pass as does my Ultracut, but the 2nd pass mulching cleans up better than side discharging so far. But as far as productivity it is great I can doublecut everything faster than before with the 66". Hopefully by next spring we will have the answer to these problems. The ideal situation up here is to side discharge then follow with a mulching mower on the 2nd pass in wet conditions.

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 01:41 PM
Thanks for your reply. I guess it's back to the drawing board. I am into the slow period with cool temps and wetter conditions and both mowers are giving me trouble laying over the grass. I went to side discharge on the Hustler and the cut quality is like everyone elses on 1 pass. So I will keep double cutting. Good thing up here that double is the norm for everyone who isn't bagging. In fact every job I bid is bid with the xtra time for double cutting. I am turning work down every week as it is. But I don't like the side discharge cut as well as with the mulching kit. Don't get excited it still misses a lot on the 1st pass as does my Ultracut, but the 2nd pass mulching cleans up better than side discharging so far. But as far as productivity it is great I can doublecut everything faster than before with the 66". Hopefully by next spring we will have the answer to these problems. The ideal situation up here is to side discharge then follow with a mulching mower on the 2nd pass in wet conditions.Lets make sure we are all hearing the same thing, Tacoma is saying the Ultracut is leaving a wonderful cut in one pass, you are saying the Ultracut is not leaving a wonderful cut in one pass this is why you are double cutting everything, you boys need to get together and lets decide what the Ultracut is actually doing. The Hustler will eat the Exmark alive if you are having to double cut anyway, I wouldn't even get on the Exmark because you will be twice as productive with the speed of the Hustler double cutting. I would not put all that junk under the XR-7 deck if you are double cutting anyway then it want pack all that damp grass under it, I just scraped my deck for the first time at 141 hrs. and Tacoma's had three times as much grass packed under it after one day and everything I have mowed for the last 6 weeks has been damp or wet.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 04:00 PM
Tacoma

Hey buddy, sorry to hear that you are no longer satisfied with the cut after the lift kit. I really thought you had your problems solved. I must admit that I was suprised how pleased you were initially when I did not notice a significant difference, but was happy that things were working well for you.

Your pictures after scrapeing are also the ideal in my conditions. I always have some stringers through an entire pass. I also find it impossible to vac up grass that is pressed down by my tires. I know your exmark will vac up this grass, but my Super Z rarely seems able to. This makes for a real crappy look in a day or two.

I was fertilzing some accounts less then 48 hours after I mowed them and was very unhappy. We mowed these accounts when the grass was damp from morning dew, and I knew there would be some tire pressdown but; I was bagging and going slow so I had hope, but it turns out the lawns looked basically uncut! I looked at two side by side, one fertilized well with few weeds, and the other a weed mess, and both looked terrible. I think I know why you have more grass residue with your exmark then the Super Z...........Cause it is acutally cutting grass!!!!!!!! Seriously, my Old Super with Ultra highlifts always looks like it cuts the grass a half inch shorter and produces alot more residue when it is cutting exactly the same height as my XR-7. There has to be a correlation.

Anyway I was impressed by how little grass built up on the deck initially, but since adding the kit, there is a lot of buildup. I would speculate it builds up faster then my old Super Z. This is not going to help cut quality I understand, but I can't scape the deck after every yard. So in the best of conditions it will leave some stringers, and in the worst, it barely cuts the grass at all.

I will admit that I am getting some cut quality complaints on both machines, but....the Old Super ran Fusions last week instead of the Ultra highlifts in poor conditions. I can tell a difference between the cut with those two blades for sure. That being said, the old Hustler deck does not and will not cut as well as an Ultracut in my opinion.

I appreciate your posts and pictures as usual. The whole thing is so frustrateing. I am tired of experimenting, and as you say the big growth part of the season is drawing to a close. Mark my words, as the grass slows and starts to thin, this deck will have less vaccume and the cut quality will fall off even more. I hope I am wrong.I was giving the cut a satisfactory rating after the lift kit was installed which means it was good enough that the owners wouldn'g notice but it have never given a good or great cut. I found out later the lawns it cut good on had alot of Bermuda and were cut fairly low. But when I go back to fescue it leaves small blades of grass sticking up higher than others but usually doesn't miss them. It was a definite improvement with the lift kit but I have been waiting for the weather to dry and figured it would do better but you saw the results. What's amazing is it really wasn't wet, lush yes but dry to the feel when I was surprised by the build up. Yes the lift kit has helped but I can still only use the mower on accounts that don't need a manicured cut. The build up took me off guard and the cut was horrible until I figured it out and now it cut the grass with a clean deck but like I said it is more uniform but nothing to compare to the Lazer Ultra cut or most residential mowers. Yes I think the Exmark always looks lower because each blade is cut and cut at the same height. My customers say their guest want to know what kind of mower cut their grass after I use the Ultracut and some request it. Thanks, need to talk to the company maybe as a group. Thanks for your reply and keep in touch.

REALSLOW
09-17-2006, 04:08 PM
I was giving the cut a satisfactory rating after the lift kit was installed which means it was good enough that the owners wouldn'g notice but it have never given a good or great cut. I found out later the lawns it cut good on had alot of Bermuda and were cut fairly low. But when I go back to fescue it leaves small blades of grass sticking up higher than others but usually doesn't miss them. It was a definite improvement with the lift kit but I have been waiting for the weather to dry and figured it would do better but you saw the results. What's amazing is it really wasn't wet, lush yes but dry to the feel when I was surprised by the build up. Yes the lift kit has helped but I can still only use the mower on accounts that don't need a manicured cut. The build up took me off guard and the cut was horrible until I figured it out and now it cut the grass with a clean deck but like I said it is more uniform but nothing to compare to the Lazer Ultra cut or most residential mowers. Yes I think the Exmark always looks lower because each blade is cut and cut at the same height. My customers say their guest want to know what kind of mower cut their grass after I use the Ultracut and some request it. Thanks, need to talk to the company maybe as a group. Thanks for your reply and keep in touch. Have you ever considered a Lesco Z 2?

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 04:21 PM
Lets make sure we are all hearing the same thing, Tacoma is saying the Ultracut is leaving a wonderful cut in one pass, you are saying the Ultracut is not leaving a wonderful cut in one pass this is why you are double cutting everything, you boys need to get together and lets decide what the Ultracut is actually doing. The Hustler will eat the Exmark alive if you are having to double cut anyway, I wouldn't even get on the Exmark because you will be twice as productive with the speed of the Hustler double cutting. I would not put all that junk under the XR-7 deck if you are double cutting anyway then it want pack all that damp grass under it, I just scraped my deck for the first time at 141 hrs. and Tacoma's had three times as much grass packed under it after one day and everything I have mowed for the last 6 weeks has been damp or wet.
No the Ultra cut gets it in one pass and the Huslter does most of the time but is not as smooth and leaves stringers. The not as smooth look is what makes it look taller and like cows grazed in it as you say. The Ultracut will cut grass up to 10" any way and leave a smooth cut. Now the clippings have to go some where and I do have to hit them with any mower sometimes when its wet or Spring growth to spread them out at a higher deck level with any mower. Puppypaws you live in NC, I live in KY and MJB lives in WA. All of us have different mowing conditions. I don't double cut but have entertained the idea to make lawns look better as MJB has talked about. I think he mows once with a side dicharge and then goes over it often whith a mulcher if I remember. He also has some pure stands of turf which I do not. The Lazer always cuts smooth, even with dull blades on the first pass. Depending on how high the grass is and the conditions (say wet) I may have to quickly hit the clippings and spread them out. The Ultra cut will spread them out and throw them over 3 deck withs (which can be a problems sometimes) so I often have to mow at less than full throttle to keep the grass out of beds and out of neighbors lawns. But as I said I can idle the Lazer around at partial throttle and still get a slick cut. I do have to scrape the deck but cutting on the first pass is never a problem, the cut is always there no matter if its weeds, fescue, Bermuda, or what. The grass is just different from Tennessee on up through the Midwest. I live in a rural area, no one much fertilizes or weeds the lawns. They cut them low and let them go usually. There are a few that do. I'm not saying the Super is a bad mower it is just having a time with our type grass and weeds. MJB has lots of nicer homes than I do and has totally diffferent conditions and customer expectations. Your friend , Tacoma

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 04:27 PM
I suggested the stepped blades 2 weeks ago. Im guessing he's tried it already? I dont know though because he seems to ignore me?

I give up!*trucewhiteflag*
No I'm not egnoring you. In fact I thought I had responded to your post but must have gotten confused. I have alot of post to answer and working the amount of hours I do with the days getting shorter is about to get the best of me. The reason I hadn't tried the spacers yet is as you see in Shady Brooks post he had no luck and here is a post where Huslter is working on trying to fix the deck but said that the spacers did not help in any of the experiments with Northern Grasses. Thanks for your input, I always enjoy your post and getting to talk with our friends down under. I'm still going to try spacers if time alows. Only one more month of fast growth and I am very busy. Check it out at:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=159519

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 05:22 PM
No the Ultra cut gets it in one pass and the Huslter does most of the time but is not as smooth and leaves stringers. The not as smooth look is what makes it look taller and like cows grazed in it as you say. The Ultracut will cut grass up to 10" any way and leave a smooth cut. Now the clippings have to go some where and I do have to hit them with any mower sometimes when its wet or Spring growth to spread them out at a higher deck level with any mower. Puppypaws you live in NC, I live in KY and MJB lives in WA. All of us have different mowing conditions. I don't double cut but have entertained the idea to make lawns look better as MJB has talked about. I think he mows once with a side dicharge and then goes over it often whith a mulcher if I remember. He also has some pure stands of turf which I do not. The Lazer always cuts smooth, even with dull blades on the first pass. Depending on how high the grass is and the conditions (say wet) I may have to quickly hit the clippings and spread them out. The Ultra cut will spread them out and throw them over 3 deck withs (which can be a problems sometimes) so I often have to mow at less than full throttle to keep the grass out of beds and out of neighbors lawns. But as I said I can idle the Lazer around at partial throttle and still get a slick cut. I do have to scrape the deck but cutting on the first pass is never a problem, the cut is always there no matter if its weeds, fescue, Bermuda, or what. The grass is just different from Tennessee on up through the Midwest. I live in a rural area, no one much fertilizes or weeds the lawns. They cut them low and let them go usually. There are a few that do. I'm not saying the Super is a bad mower it is just having a time with our type grass and weeds. MJB has lots of nicer homes than I do and has totally diffferent conditions and customer expectations. Your friend , TacomaYou have been consistent in saying the Ultracut gets all grass in one pass no matter what, MJB is saying the Ultracut is leaving some grass uncut on one pass, I am just trying to figure if one Ultracut cuts all grass and weeds in one pass and one does not what is the difference. I can come and double cut your grass and finish before you can cut it one time with the Exmark. I can cut one pass blowing it one direction turn around and go back over the same pass blowing what is left in the other direction faster than the Exmark can cut it one time because I will run (over) twice as fast. Why don't you try it and see for yourself.

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 05:41 PM
You have been consistent in saying the Ultracut gets all grass in one pass no matter what, MJB is saying the Ultracut is leaving some grass uncut on one pass, I am just trying to figure if one Ultracut cuts all grass and weeds in one pass and one does not what is the difference. I can come and double cut your grass and finish before you can cut it one time with the Exmark. I can cut one pass blowing it one direction turn around and go back over the same pass blowing what is left in the other direction faster than the Exmark can cut it one time because I will run (over) twice as fast. Why don't you try it and see for yourself.You can't do it with all that extra hardware you have added under the deck, to mow fast that deck has to be free flowing and not packing grass inside. I would rather mow anything twice than to crawl around like a turtle and it would look better anyway, I can't stand slow.

REALSLOW
09-17-2006, 05:47 PM
I don't understand all the babbel, you talk to Hustler they built it. If anybody can come up wth a sloution they can. If they cannot you ask them to take it back or try a early pre XR7 deck. After that does not work then you go on for 9 pages. I will gaurantee they would like you to come to them first before the public can read 9 pages of babbel? If I have a problem I am going to the dealer then to Hustler before I hurt their sales with world wide negative exposure.

I am sorry you are having problems but mine is great! I have a few minor complaints but the machine is made better and better service than any other I know of except mabey the Z2.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 06:03 PM
You have been consistent in saying the Ultracut gets all grass in one pass no matter what, MJB is saying the Ultracut is leaving some grass uncut on one pass, I am just trying to figure if one Ultracut cuts all grass and weeds in one pass and one does not what is the difference. I can come and double cut your grass and finish before you can cut it one time with the Exmark. I can cut one pass blowing it one direction turn around and go back over the same pass blowing what is left in the other direction faster than the Exmark can cut it one time because I will run (over) twice as fast. Why don't you try it and see for yourself.
I have to go 5-6 mph on most lawns with either mower while its lush. I have seen a few Dixies that could mow what I'm mowing above 10 mph but thats it. I have pictures of their work also. This is just different grass/weed combo here and much lusher than it is in the Piedmont or coastal plain of NC. The Huslter will not run 15 mph with the blades off on some of my lawns. It is often going 4 mph at the top of a long grade. Not even a 30+ hp engine would mow at 15 mph here. I'm not trying to be smart but as I said in an earlier post I have seen Dixies with 32 or 33 hp struggling around here. The mower misses enough grass at 6 mph, I'm not going to try 15. On a perfect lawn on a super dry day, flat terrain, just maybe. I have grown to think alot of you Puppypaws and respect you but 15 mph Hustler in this growth right now aint happening (at least if it cuts all the grass). If it won,t do it a 6 why would it do it at 15. MJB has different conditions and more more upscale customers and he stripes. He lives in a dry area I believe, has stands of pure grass, and the grass is irrigated. I may be wrong but this is far from my conditions. And he is cutting much higher than I do I think. 3.25" is normal for me. Just totally different circumstances. He always cuts wet because of the irrigation also I think but maybe wrong.. Our mowing conditions have nothing in common. I don't know if you remember but in another post I told about watching a Dixie pushing grass clippings with the front of his deck last month, and they are the only mowers I know that can cut this grass very fast. All the cutting complaints are from Tennessee up and don't affect you in N.C.

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 06:44 PM
I have to go 5-6 mph on most lawns with either mower while its lush. I have seen a few Dixies that could mow what I'm mowing above 10 mph but thats it. I have pictures of their work also. This is just different grass/weed combo here and much lusher than it is in the Piedmont or coastal plain of NC. The Huslter will not run 15 mph with the blades off on some of my lawns. It is often going 4 mph at the top of a long grade. Not even a 30+ hp engine would mow at 15 mph here. I'm not trying to be smart but as I said in an earlier post I have seen Dixies with 32 or 33 hp struggling around here. The mower misses enough grass at 6 mph, I'm not going to try 15. On a perfect lawn on a super dry day, flat terrain, just maybe. I have grown to think alot of you Puppypaws and respect you but 15 mph Hustler in this growth right now aint happening (at least if it cuts all the grass). If it won,t do it a 6 why would it do it at 15. MJB has different conditions and more more upscale customers and he stripes. He lives in a dry area I believe, has stands of pure grass, and the grass is irrigated. I may be wrong but this is far from my conditions. And he is cutting much higher than I do I think. 3.25" is normal for me. Just totally different circumstances. He always cuts wet because of the irrigation also I think but maybe wrong.. Our mowing conditions have nothing in common. I don't know if you remember but in another post I told about watching a Dixie pushing grass clippings with the front of his deck last month, and they are the only mowers I know that can cut this grass very fast. All the cutting complaints are from Tennessee up and don't affect you in N.C.I did not say you can cut 15 mph in your grass, I said if you had the deck back to the way it was when you bought it you can cut twice as fast as you can with the Exmark and you can cut 15 mph on the return pass, if not there is something bad wrong with that mower. To get a good cut with the Exmark how fast do you run? The amount of hardware you have added under your deck is going to slow it down and pack more grass under the deck, you said you had already seen this happen. What speed do you think you can mow at with the Hustler in it's original setup, I'm not talking about a good clean cut, I'm talking about how fast can you run and cut 75% of the grass on one pass because I know you can run 15 mph on the return pass and finish it off. You will also have to take into consideration how much time is spent scraping the Ultracut to the amount of time scraping the original XR-7, what do you think?

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 07:07 PM
I did not say you can cut 15 mph in your grass, I said if you had the deck back to the way it was when you bought it you can cut twice as fast as you can with the Exmark and you can cut 15 mph on the return pass, if not there is something bad wrong with that mower. To get a good cut with the Exmark how fast do you run? The amount of hardware you have added under your deck is going to slow it down and pack more grass under the deck, you said you had already seen this happen. What speed do you think you can mow at with the Hustler in it's original setup, I'm not talking about a good clean cut, I'm talking about how fast can you run and cut 75% of the grass on one pass because I know you can run 15 mph on the return pass and finish it off. You will also have to take into consideration how much time is spent scraping the Ultracut to the amount of time scraping the original XR-7, what do you think?
I'm sure it will go over 10 mph on some lawns with the hardware removed. And somet types of grasses it will cut good at that speed such as Burmuda. It all depends on how thick the grass is but I average 7 mph probably on the Exmark. I'm still studying it. Thanks... Yes the hardware slows you down but the cut is much improved

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 07:12 PM
I don't understand all the babbel, you talk to Hustler they built it. If anybody can come up wth a sloution they can. If they cannot you ask them to take it back or try a early pre XR7 deck. After that does not work then you go on for 9 pages. I will gaurantee they would like you to come to them first before the public can read 9 pages of babbel? If I have a problem I am going to the dealer then to Hustler before I hurt their sales with world wide negative exposure.

I am sorry you are having problems but mine is great! I have a few minor complaints but the machine is made better and better service than any other I know of except mabey the Z2.
I didn't expect this many post, its the weekend and I needed some advice. No ill will toward Huslter. The build up under my deck and poor cut took me off guard and I feel pressure to fix this since we have only one more month of fast growth. You can't get a fast response on the Exmark or Hustler forums because they are moderated. Sorry.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 07:22 PM
This is the best I can do matching the mowing height with a ruler. Both cut pretty good today (dry) but cutting off alot.

tacoma200
09-17-2006, 07:25 PM
LEFT SIDE HUSTLER.... RIGHT SIDE EXMARK. . Both cut pretty good today in the dryer grass. Exmark was still smoother but in these dry conditions they both cut pretty good 6-8 mph. Exmark cut on right. This is about the best I can do guys, its wearing me out. I consider the Hustler cut acceptable today with dry conditions. But I can still see a difference much more apparent in real life. They will only let you use a small resolution pic on Lawnsite for obvious reasons. I used a tape measure and they were close to 3".

Josh.S
09-17-2006, 07:30 PM
For some reason it seems my dixie chopper is missing little spurts of grass here and there.. my striping normally lay it over and customers don't seem to notice.. maybe im just a perfectionist

traman
09-17-2006, 07:32 PM
i think its time to call richard petty up and have the nascar boys fix it

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 07:43 PM
I'm sure it will go over 10 mph on some lawns with the hardware removed. And somet types of grasses it will cut good at that speed such as Burmuda. It all depends on how thick the grass is but I average 7 mph probably on the Exmark. I'm still studying it. Thanks... Yes the hardware slows you down but the cut is much improvedThis is what will blow your mind, if you cut at 10 mph for 1 minute you will cut 880' , if you cut at 7 mph for 1 minute you will cut 616' , so if you made the return cut back at 15 mph for 880' it will take you 1 minute and 40 seconds to double cut, if you cut 880' at 7 mph it will take you 1 minute and 26 seconds to single cut and this is not counting turn around time for the Hustler so you are talking about (with turn around time) 20 seconds longer to double cut 880' with the Hustler than to cut 1 single pass with the Exmark at those speeds. I believe you can run fast enough to double cut with the Hustler faster than you can single cut with the Exmark. Take the hardware out of the XR-7 deck and run a time trial, let me no what you find out, push the Hustler for all she can do.

Tharrell
09-17-2006, 08:49 PM
I know the grass is bunching up under your deck but, I wonder if the blade belt is slipping? There must be some way to determine if it is.
I wonder if the factory uses mathematical formulas to determine blade tip speed or if they've actually tested it with something? Something like a strobe timing light for an automobile?

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 09:54 PM
LEFT SIDE HUSTLER.... RIGHT SIDE EXMARK. . Both cut pretty good today in the dryer grass. Exmark was still smoother but in these dry conditions they both cut pretty good 6-8 mph. Exmark cut on right. This is about the best I can do guys, its wearing me out. I consider the Hustler cut acceptable today with dry conditions. But I can still see a difference much more apparent in real life. They will only let you use a small resolution pic on Lawnsite for obvious reasons. I used a tape measure and they were close to 3".That is the Exmark from the center of the picture right and the Hustler from the center left and you can definitely tell the Exmark is a cleaner cut, that would be a good run to time with a second hand on a watch, one way with the Exmark then back and forth with the Hustler and then compare the time and cut, this would be something interesting to know.

Idealtim
09-17-2006, 10:01 PM
Bite the bullet, sell the hustler and buy another exmark. That is a garbage cut from the xr-7. There isn't anyway around it.

Mickhippy
09-17-2006, 10:22 PM
No I'm not egnoring you. In fact I thought I had responded to your post but must have gotten confused. I have alot of post to answer and working the amount of hours I do with the days getting shorter is about to get the best of me. The reason I hadn't tried the spacers yet is as you see in Shady Brooks post he had no luck and here is a post where Huslter is working on trying to fix the deck but said that the spacers did not help in any of the experiments with Northern Grasses. Thanks for your input, I always enjoy your post and getting to talk with our friends down under. I'm still going to try spacers if time alows. Only one more month of fast growth and I am very busy. Check it out at:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=159519

I apologise to you then mate! It was late and I was hung over!:dizzy:

Anyway, in that link Quote"Lowering the blades with blade spacers, have resulted in no cut quality improvements in the midwest, but have increased impact related problems with spindle shafts, and scalping." they said they tried the spacers and that there was scalping issues. Thats probably because the spacer took the blades too low, probably below the baffle. I bet they didnt try the stepped blades as they push fusion blades now. Stepped blades will help protect the blade bolt as it sits level or lower than it! I have to keep my deck one hole higher to allow for the 1/4" difference in height.

So, forget about the spacer ok. The spindle shaft is longer than the old deck already so as to suit the flat fusion blades. I really am NOT happy about that!

I would like you to try find a blade that steps down so is only 1/4" or so above the front baffle. Forget about the front deck lip, Im talking the front baffle. Weather or not you have to remove the new add on I dont know, I would try it either way, you could probably find a blade to suit.
Try it with and without the triangle things too.

My problem with what I saw in the pic is that the blades are something like an inch higher than the bottom of the deck lip. I think the baffles are knocking the grass down and its not standing it up enough, in time. My theory if thats the case is take the blades lower so the grass dont have to stand up so much but not so low as they are below the front baffle. Just a fraction higher than the front baffle. This may also change the air flow inside the deck.

Point is, for the sake of a couple of blades and time changing the configuration (lip and triangles) if it works, its worth the trouble isnt it? Your understandably not happy with the way things are now right!
It may not work, but at least you'd know. And I'd shut up about it!:rolleyes: Seems youve tried everything else!

I had similar problems when I got my machine (it is the older deck though). I mow primarily Bermuda acreages and it can grow fast, real fast! I had problems with dandelion, and long stemmy weeds in the turf folding over and not getting cut. Lowering the blades only 1/4" closer to the bottom of the front lip made a huge difference for me.

I am changing blades soon and I'll take some pics of the spacer, blade etc for ya. It might help me explain what I mean!

Sorry for the long winded post!:sleeping:

MJB
09-17-2006, 10:32 PM
I apologise to you then mate! It was late and I was hung over!:dizzy:

Anyway, in that link Quote"Lowering the blades with blade spacers, have resulted in no cut quality improvements in the midwest, but have increased impact related problems with spindle shafts, and scalping." they said they tried the spacers and that there was scalping issues. Thats probably because the spacer took the blades too low, probably below the baffle. I bet they didnt try the stepped blades as they push fusion blades now. Stepped blades will help protect the blade bolt as it sits level or lower than it! I have to keep my deck one hole higher to allow for the 1/4" difference in height.

So, forget about the spacer ok. The spindle shaft is longer than the old deck already so as to suit the flat fusion blades. I really am NOT happy about that!

I would like you to try find a blade that steps down so is only 1/4" or so above the front baffle. Forget about the front deck lip, Im talking the front baffle. Weather or not you have to remove the new add on I dont know, I would try it either way, you could probably find a blade to suit.
Try it with and without the triangle things too.

My problem with what I saw in the pic is that the blades are something like an inch higher than the bottom of the deck lip. I think the baffles are knocking the grass down and its not standing it up enough, in time. My theory if thats the case is take the blades lower so the grass dont have to stand up so much but not so low as they are below the front baffle. Just a fraction higher than the front baffle. This may also change the air flow inside the deck.

Point is, for the sake of a couple of blades and time changing the configuration (lip and triangles) if it works, its worth the trouble isnt it? Your understandably not happy with the way things are now right!
It may not work, but at least you'd know. And I'd shut up about it!:rolleyes: Seems youve tried everything else!

I had similar problems when I got my machine (it is the older deck though). I mow primarily Bermuda acreages and it can grow fast, real fast! I had problems with dandelion, and long stemmy weeds in the turf folding over and not getting cut. Lowering the blades only 1/4" closer to the bottom of the front lip made a huge difference for me.

I am changing blades soon and I'll take some pics of the spacer, blade etc for ya. It might help me explain what I mean!

Sorry for the long winded post!:sleeping:

Where do you get these step down blades your talking about ?? Does Hustler sell them? I have not tried the flat blades yet. I have the mulching blades on and it shoots the grass a long way but still lays over abit on the left side. Thanks for you suggestions....

MJB
09-17-2006, 10:42 PM
This is what will blow your mind, if you cut at 10 mph for 1 minute you will cut 880' , if you cut at 7 mph for 1 minute you will cut 616' , so if you made the return cut back at 15 mph for 880' it will take you 1 minute and 40 seconds to double cut, if you cut 880' at 7 mph it will take you 1 minute and 26 seconds to single cut and this is not counting turn around time for the Hustler so you are talking about (with turn around time) 20 seconds longer to double cut 880' with the Hustler than to cut 1 single pass with the Exmark at those speeds. I believe you can run fast enough to double cut with the Hustler faster than you can single cut with the Exmark. Take the hardware out of the XR-7 deck and run a time trial, let me no what you find out, push the Hustler for all she can do.

Puppypaws, I am mulching with my Exmark so thats a big difference too between me and Tacoma. Everyone up here mulches and the bigger companies keep a side discharge available for the extra heavy wet lawns. Everyone here also over irrigates like crazy, and we get a lot of dew. So we use many combinations of mulching and side discharge mowers and still we always double cut. But like you said on most lawns I can double cut the main areas in no time as long as the lawns are smooth enough. But most of the time the Exmark leaves a better quality cut and stripe. But I have been able to keep my customers happy using both. At times I make the 1st cut with the Hustler. Then cleanup with the Exmark if it is a real picky customer and I don't lose time. But this time of year we have softer turf, wetter turf, cooler temps and cut quality suffers no mmatter what we use , so we do the best we can.

puppypaws
09-17-2006, 10:57 PM
Puppypaws, I am mulching with my Exmark so thats a big difference too between me and Tacoma. Everyone up here mulches and the bigger companies keep a side discharge available for the extra heavy wet lawns. Everyone here also over irrigates like crazy, and we get a lot of dew. So we use many combinations of mulching and side discharge mowers and still we always double cut. But like you said on most lawns I can double cut the main areas in no time as long as the lawns are smooth enough. But most of the time the Exmark leaves a better quality cut and stripe. But I have been able to keep my customers happy using both. At times I make the 1st cut with the Hustler. Then cleanup with the Exmark if it is a real picky customer and I don't lose time. But this time of year we have softer turf, wetter turf, cooler temps and cut quality suffers no mmatter what we use , so we do the best we can.I've never been to your state but from the impression I get I always thought it rained alot there but you are talking about irrigation so can you explain you weather. When you make two fast passes with your Hustler how does the cut look compared to the Exmark and can you not double cut with the Hustler as fast as you can single cut with the Exmark, or close to it.

Mickhippy
09-17-2006, 11:06 PM
They may also be called offset blades but Im not sure.

The blades you'd get with I guess pre 04 SuperZ's are like what Im talking about. They step down to the cutting edge from where the bolt is.
The old hustler blades have the same step down (appros 3/4 to 1") as the spacer thickness. Thats why we have to or should use the spacer with flat blades, on the old deck.
So, I use the spacer and 1/4" stepped blades. It just lowers the cutting edge 1/4" from using original hustler blades.

I'll take some pics soon! Just gotta get motivated to crawl under a deck!

MJB
09-17-2006, 11:42 PM
I've never been to your state but from the impression I get I always thought it rained alot there but you are talking about irrigation so can you explain you weather. When you make two fast passes with your Hustler how does the cut look compared to the Exmark and can you not double cut with the Hustler as fast as you can single cut with the Exmark, or close to it.

I live in the dryest part of the state, we have sand dunes everywhere. It rains spring and winter. Not much in the summer at all normally very dry.
I have the 60" Exmark and the 66" Hustler so I can do better than Tacoma productivity wise with the extra 6 inches. Here is where it gets confusing on some jobs the quality doesn't suffer most of the season on other jobs I see big difference. The Exmark cut will look crisper, and the stripe darker and overall a better looking lawn. So I know which jobs I can use each mower on if not both at the same time. Having my wife work with me makes it easier to use both at the same time. I use them together where it does not make sense for Tacoma to jump from mower to mower. I might run the Hustler wide open and make the 1st pass my wife starts doublecutting with the Exmark right behind me in another direction as soon as she can. The larger the lawn the more I use the Hustler.

puppypaws
09-18-2006, 12:17 AM
I live in the dryest part of the state, we have sand dunes everywhere. It rains spring and winter. Not much in the summer at all normally very dry.
I have the 60" Exmark and the 66" Hustler so I can do better than Tacoma productivity wise with the extra 6 inches. Here is where it gets confusing on some jobs the quality doesn't suffer most of the season on other jobs I see big difference. The Exmark cut will look crisper, and the stripe darker and overall a better looking lawn. So I know which jobs I can use each mower on if not both at the same time. Having my wife work with me makes it easier to use both at the same time. I use them together where it does not make sense for Tacoma to jump from mower to mower. I might run the Hustler wide open and make the 1st pass my wife starts doublecutting with the Exmark right behind me in another direction as soon as she can. The larger the lawn the more I use the Hustler.Why don't you put some pictures of your area in here, I can't imagine sand dunes there. I know why you ride the Hustler because you like the speed also and your wife does not care if she goes any faster than the Exmark, if you double cut with the Hustler what will it look like in comparison to the Ultracut, how fast can you mow with the Exmark they have one that has the 21 cc pump also and it will run 13 mph.

Shady Brook
09-18-2006, 12:36 AM
I don't think the offset blades will work. First in my experience they did not cut as clean as the solid foil fusions sharpened to the center bolt. Second you would have to get some exmarks as the Hustler blades would not fit as they are 21" on the old deck, and 20 1/2 on the new deck. Lastly they drop the cutting surface down nearly an inch if I remember correctly which would drop below the front edge of the deck. The deck already sit low as well, and rubs on my trailer, I don't even know if I could get on the trailer without bending a blade. I hope somebody trys them, I just don't think they will work.

Mickhippy
09-18-2006, 01:02 AM
Shady, the blades Im talking about are only a fraction more stepped than the fusion blades...
Top pic is of the original blade, second is the fusion and 3rd is what I use...

Mickhippy
09-18-2006, 01:05 AM
The set up I use.

Mickhippy
09-18-2006, 01:16 AM
The 3 blades together...

All this may not work, absolutely, but just saying it cant is like saying that sex is not fun when your still a virgin!
Also Shady, if your deck is hitting on the trailer, it not the machine but the length of ramp your using.

Anyway, what do you lot know about threaded spindles. I think I just did it, not the bolt but inside the spindle. I didnt do the bolt up by hand enough before hitting it with the gun! I got the blade on eventually but I dont want it flying out. New Spindle? Bugger!:cry:

Envy Lawn Service
09-18-2006, 01:32 AM
Tacoma,

Sorry, I couldn't get through carefully reading everything in this thread.

But thanks for the buildup pictures. Now look at them compared to anything else you have ever seen... then recall what I said about this being an AIR FLOW/TURBULANCE issue.

IF I had the kind of shop I wish I did, I'd have you bring it down to me this winter and I would see what I could do for you. But I don't and even if I did, I'm not confident I could make it perfect. That deck is aweful long out in front of the blades.

But getting to the point, I don't foresee you tweaking this out yourself. I know Hustler is trying hard too, but...

As for what to do, I don't know really. I doubt the old deck would do it for you either. I mean they were trying to upgrade. But at this point, if I were you I'd want to try one. Beyond that is just a bog void.

This is a sensitive issue. Meaning that I know all too well what you are going through. I've been through it more than once, that's for sure. Personally I had no problem with getting on the war path over the ones that had defects in materials/workmanship... meaning the decks were not straight.

However, in another situation I found myself unhappy with the cut from a machine that checked out perfect. I knew to buck up and take it like a man that I'd made a hasty buying decision. Who's fault was that? In my case I felt it was mine.

Now, with that said, it seems to me that your issues with the XR7 fall right in between my two experiences. I'm guessing the deck is straight as an arrow. But you are not in the minority feeling the performance is sub-par, and it really does look to me like a design defect.

Personally, I feel it's Hustler's obligation to remedy this defect in a timely fashion or do otherwise. But I'm not sure how many more chances you should extend to them before taking the 'otherwise' option, nor do I know enough about your buying decision to know rather I feel you are entitled to that kind of option.

What I mean is, if you took out a demo and put it through it's paces on all your lawn types and it cut well enough to sell you, but then the unit you bought does not... well then I think you are entitled.

But if the demo didn't do better than the unit you have now and you bought it anyway, or you failed to test extensively at your own accord, then I say no , it's your buying decision... work with Hustler until you are happy or sell it and buy another used Lazer Z.

**********************************************************
I can tell from the pictures that you and I mow some of the same grasses, grassy weeds, and conditions. I have some like that and they are just too large-scale to be maintained as high purity, desireable, manicured stands of turf because it would just cost a fortune.

However, these folks still expect a clean crisp cut just like we do. Not many mowers can do that and get you out in one pass... and these lawns are usually too darn big to be double cutting... so what can you do???

I'll tell you what... you have to get a mower that can handle it. There's no way around it. You are your own judge in how this should be handled with Hustler. But if they can't resolve this right away or trade you out, then you should either be entitled to a refund... or if it's your mistake, give up and sell.

The TriVantage deck does the same thing here on those types of lawns, only worse. Sub-par cut quality and it stays packed up all the time. But on dry perfect turf, it does perfect pretty much. Some of it is the deck, some of it is the layout of the machine it's mounted to.

With that said, to cut these grasses, you need the money out of this Hustler one way or the other so you can get another used UltraCut for a backup... or find another machine that can handle that application.

The Command Cut deck on the Cub/Lesco machines cut this kind of stuff like no tommorrow. Scag's Velocity deck would be another to try, and so would the Gravely deck.... ect .....If you are looking for a NEW machine.

In my eyes, there is no harm done here... but a man has got to get what works....
A mower that mows your grass... Nuff Said...

Shady Brook
09-18-2006, 09:19 AM
Mickhippy

Thanks for the great pictures and posts. Thos look at first glance like my old Hustler blades. True they are not an inch drop, I was thinking the spacer was thicker. Do you know if the Exmark's are the same drop as the Hustler blade?

As far as the mower hanging up, yep I know if I had a longer gate or gentler angle I would not have problems. My old Super will go up and not hang up, but the new one does. The thing with the new one is, it is a deeper deck, but I think they left the amount of travel the deck can take to the frame the same. The deck sits about 3/8" to 1/2" lower in the transport position then the old unit. This is as high as it gets. I can turn up the springs to get the height, but I don't want to over tighten them either. The deck is also longer front to back with the new design giving it more opportunity to hang up. Finally the wheel base on the new unit is longer to accomadate the new deck and a stripe roller giving it yet more opportunity to belly up. Another reason I prefered the short wheelbase machine, but want to go with the "better" deck.

Thanks again

tacoma200
09-18-2006, 09:31 AM
I apologise to you then mate! It was late and I was hung over!:dizzy:

Anyway, in that link Quote"Lowering the blades with blade spacers, have resulted in no cut quality improvements in the midwest, but have increased impact related problems with spindle shafts, and scalping." they said they tried the spacers and that there was scalping issues. Thats probably because the spacer took the blades too low, probably below the baffle. I bet they didnt try the stepped blades as they push fusion blades now. Stepped blades will help protect the blade bolt as it sits level or lower than it! I have to keep my deck one hole higher to allow for the 1/4" difference in height.

So, forget about the spacer ok. The spindle shaft is longer than the old deck already so as to suit the flat fusion blades. I really am NOT happy about that!

I would like you to try find a blade that steps down so is only 1/4" or so above the front baffle. Forget about the front deck lip, Im talking the front baffle. Weather or not you have to remove the new add on I dont know, I would try it either way, you could probably find a blade to suit.
Try it with and without the triangle things too.

My problem with what I saw in the pic is that the blades are something like an inch higher than the bottom of the deck lip. I think the baffles are knocking the grass down and its not standing it up enough, in time. My theory if thats the case is take the blades lower so the grass dont have to stand up so much but not so low as they are below the front baffle. Just a fraction higher than the front baffle. This may also change the air flow inside the deck.

Point is, for the sake of a couple of blades and time changing the configuration (lip and triangles) if it works, its worth the trouble isnt it? Your understandably not happy with the way things are now right!
It may not work, but at least you'd know. And I'd shut up about it!:rolleyes: Seems youve tried everything else!

I had similar problems when I got my machine (it is the older deck though). I mow primarily Bermuda acreages and it can grow fast, real fast! I had problems with dandelion, and long stemmy weeds in the turf folding over and not getting cut. Lowering the blades only 1/4" closer to the bottom of the front lip made a huge difference for me.

I am changing blades soon and I'll take some pics of the spacer, blade etc for ya. It might help me explain what I mean!

Sorry for the long winded post!:sleeping:
There are very few blades available to fit the new XR7 deck though some guys are using different OEM blades to try to get a better cut. The days are getting shorter here and it is seriously keeping me from experimenting with this deck as much as I would like. And I am getting tired of working with it, I mean I do have kids and need to sleep sometimes. Don't take that the wrong way I'm just venting to myself. Hustler is supposed to have a team working on this (engineers and others in the field) and if they can't figure it out and Shady Brook, TLS, and other members can't figure it out I don't see how I'm going to on my schedule. Lots of friendly people with good advise for me to try but I live in a rural area and it is hard to get the time or the items needed to experiment. I'll keep trying though. The deck is probably and excellent design for the Southern 1/3 of the country and it will cut here in the right conditions. But above 3 or so inches it gets worse as you raise the cutting height and the lift kit helps but now it builds up very bad as you can see. Good talking to you. This deck will never be a hit in the Northern grass area without some major changes which hopefully they are working on.

NickN
09-18-2006, 09:31 AM
Judging by the photos,the stringers you're leaving are dallisgrass seedheads and bahiagrass.It's not uncommon for a mower to have to double cut those.If your Exmark is cutting them in one pass,my hats off to them.
One thing I've noticed is ,with the mulch kit on the Toro,the stringers it leaves with dallisgrass and bahia are alot more common than without the kit.Perhaps that deck(or the blades) on the Hustler just doesn't have enough lift?

tacoma200
09-18-2006, 09:43 AM
Thanks for your post Envy. Very informative. The deck should fall under defective in my opinion because it does not deliver what the brochures or website promises in our type grass and the fixes cause other problems. I may have to eat this one, we'll see. If they are coming up with a better deck or something that will work with this one I am not an unreasonable person. When the deck is clean it will cut reasonable at low heights with the kit but Spring growth will be a disaster if it has the kind of build up it did the other day (the grass was not wet to the touch but lush). I will talk more later when I get my thoughts a little straighter. I'm a bit burnt out working on it. And to make it worse my dealer and Hustler have been great to work with, but the deck has not. I really mean them no harm, but I have alot tied up in this. Thanks again.

Mickhippy
09-18-2006, 09:44 AM
No worries Shady. I was a little off on my 1/4" guess's but at least now you can see what Im talking about. The very top blade in post 105 is probably what you used on your old machine. Ive only ever had 1 set of those and they came with the machine, same as the fusions.
Using the "set up" post 106, the blade is virtually level with the front edge of the deck. As you can see in the pic below. (ignore the cr@p under there) I had taken other pics but had trouble, with 2 cameras! Unbelievable!:hammerhead: And I damaged the spindle!:hammerhead: :hammerhead:

I have no idea about Exmark blades!

Try putting something a couple of inch's high, (car ramps for example) under the edge of the ramps when you lower them. That will take some of the angle off!
To be honest, I dont know what machine I will get next. I really dont like some of the changes to the new SZ's, length of wheel base is one of them. I like the zippy feel of the short wheel base, ya know what I mean!

Mickhippy
09-18-2006, 10:04 AM
These pics sorta came out. Ive done my best to match them up for comparison.
Top pic is of the blade I use with spacer, the bottom one is the old standard blade. You can see the difference in height from the back of the deck.
My point to all this is that I reckon you'd get a better cut with the blade lower to the front baffle. What blades you can use I dont know with all the changes that have been made and ad ons etc.

Anyway, I think Ive gone about as far as I can without repeating it over and over.
I just hope you can get it sorted!

tacoma200
09-18-2006, 08:50 PM
These pics sorta came out. Ive done my best to match them up for comparison.
Top pic is of the blade I use with spacer, the bottom one is the old standard blade. You can see the difference in height from the back of the deck.
My point to all this is that I reckon you'd get a better cut with the blade lower to the front baffle. What blades you can use I dont know with all the changes that have been made and ad ons etc.

Anyway, I think Ive gone about as far as I can without repeating it over and over.
I just hope you can get it sorted!
Talked to the dealer owner today. Super nice knowledgeable guy. WE talked about the massive crabgrass problem this year, blades, etc. I will work with Hustler if possible. The build up under the deck even in fairly dry conditions is killing me though. Its like I can't cut the grass with out the lift kit but with the lift kit I get massive build up after 2-3 lawns and then it won't cut. It's filling a 5 gallon bucket every 5 yards or so and it was dry, but the grass was lush. Got in a couple of lawns this morning before the rain and it cut ok except for the crabgrass but the buildup had to be scraped. I have a busy schedule and time is not on my side this season. there is bound to be some combination that will work. Wish me luck.

Mickhippy
09-19-2006, 01:29 AM
Gotta love Hustler! You know how we go on about having a good dealer, well I got one in spades!
That spindle that I threaded yesterday. I rang my big dealer yesterday arvo and it was fixed this morning while I waited. I cant go into details but lets just say, he REALLY looked after me, well above and beyond the call!

Being treated so well is really a great selling point to me. By the time I get around to a new machine Im sure these/your problems will be fixed, and I will most definately be looking back at Hustler first, before anything else. I mentioned your problems and he knew nothing about them. The new 06 machines have only just been released here so we'll see!

But thats no good for you. I do wish you the best of luck. I cant imagine how frustrating this must be for you.
Just, keep your chin up, keep working on it and hopefully between you and the dealer, you'll get it sorted.

tacoma200
09-19-2006, 01:48 AM
Mick, I doubt you will have a problem. Its just our grasses in this part of the country and the XR7 are a mismatch. My dealer said that all most all lawns in Kentucky have a crabgrass problem (of course it has problems with fescue also) and it was very difficult to cut buy I don't see you having a problem in warm season grasses. If I could quit work for a month and had all the different adapters, spacers, fixes, kits, etc. maybe I could figure this out with a combination of them.

MJB
09-19-2006, 02:03 AM
Why don't you put some pictures of your area in here, I can't imagine sand dunes there. I know why you ride the Hustler because you like the speed also and your wife does not care if she goes any faster than the Exmark, if you double cut with the Hustler what will it look like in comparison to the Ultracut, how fast can you mow with the Exmark they have one that has the 21 cc pump also and it will run 13 mph.

I've posted a few pics of this area. We have people come from all over the state to ride there sand rails, 4 wheelers, & motorbikes in the dunes. Summer time 1000's of crazies are camping on the dunes during holidays here. You can see the start of the sand dunes at the top of the 1st picture it goes for miles. We have a large lake that most of my lawns are located on. Here is a few pics.
I will find some Exmark stripes and post too. On my best lawns there isn't that much difference in quality after double cutting with the mulcher on. These are all pics using the mulching kits on both mowers. The bottom pic has 2 stripes on the left made by the Hustler 66" ,the one on the right is the Exmark 60" this is on the 1st pass the Exmark looks better when you can see it from a wider view. But judge for yourself. I can live with the Hustler mulching, but side discharging with either mower I think stinks up here. But the Hustler is worse at laying over the grass on 1 pass.

tacoma200
09-19-2006, 02:07 AM
You do great work MJB!

Rons Rightway Lawncare
09-19-2006, 02:07 AM
A few ideas.... first try to raise the engine rpms, get more blade speed out of it.

Try some higher lift hi lift blades. My dealer here sells a blade that has the back edge almost vertical, and it really sucks the grass blades up and cuts - it just puts a big drag on the engine and uses more gas, the only problem I see with them.

Do you have a stripping kit? If so, take it off and try it without, that could make a difference.

Crab grass is sticky no matter how dry it is outside. If you got lawns with alot of crabgrass, you will get build up under the deck. I keep a wide paint scrapper on my trailer and if the deck gets heavy, I pull the mower up on the edge of my trailer and get under the deck and scrap it clean. Sometimes I have to do this every few yards if there is alot of crabgrass. Sometimes there is nothing you can do but cut it twice.

I have only seen one Hustler here locally cutting and the cut it left was terrible, almost looked like it hadn't even been cut. Of course around here the norm is usually a cut at the highest setting which on some properties doesn't give a manicured look.

Mickhippy
09-19-2006, 02:08 AM
I think thats what you need to do. Start from scratch and try the different combos. I know times running out for you and your frustrated but be best to get it sorted before next season. You dont want to start next season on a downer or you'll go out of ya brain again.

Your probably right about no problems but I do cut a mixed bag of cr@p sometimes! From bermuda to kykuyu, to bahia(?) etc , all with/without weeds to some of the longest stuff you'd imagine (feet high) , so I need a deck that will cut just about anything, even hinting on bush hog!
I need the deck to cut at its absolute best in all conditions, cos thats the sort of work I do! While Im happy with the old deck, it struggles on wet bermuda with clumps etc.
Like I said, Ive got a couple of years for things to change.

tacoma200
09-19-2006, 02:17 AM
A few ideas.... first try to raise the engine rpms, get more blade speed out of it.

Try some higher lift hi lift blades. My dealer here sells a blade that has the back edge almost vertical, and it really sucks the grass blades up and cuts - it just puts a big drag on the engine and uses more gas, the only problem I see with them.

Do you have a stripping kit? If so, take it off and try it without, that could make a difference.

Crab grass is sticky no matter how dry it is outside. If you got lawns with alot of crabgrass, you will get build up under the deck. I keep a wide paint scrapper on my trailer and if the deck gets heavy, I pull the mower up on the edge of my trailer and get under the deck and scrap it clean. Sometimes I have to do this every few yards if there is alot of crabgrass. Sometimes there is nothing you can do but cut it twice.

I have only seen one Hustler here locally cutting and the cut it left was terrible, almost looked like it hadn't even been cut. Of course around here the norm is usually a cut at the highest setting which on some properties doesn't give a manicured look.
The XR7 is a new deck and they don't have much of a blade selection. That will change of course. Never knew crabgrass was a problem with the Lazer, this is all new to me, an expensive and time consuming learning experience. Yes I scrape the Lazer also but not as often (since the lift kit install on the Hustler). I've never seen such strange build up patterns as on the XR7 though. Looks like cave formations in one spot and the deck is perfectly clean in another. I have two paint scrapers in case one fails.

tacoma200
09-19-2006, 02:20 AM
I think thats what you need to do. Start from scratch and try the different combos. I know times running out for you and your frustrated but be best to get it sorted before next season. You dont want to start next season on a downer or you'll go out of ya brain again.

Your probably right about no problems but I do cut a mixed bag of cr@p sometimes! From bermuda to kykuyu, to bahia(?) etc , all with/without weeds to some of the longest stuff you'd imagine (feet high) , so I need a deck that will cut just about anything, even hinting on bush hog!
I need the deck to cut at its absolute best in all conditions, cos thats the sort of work I do! While Im happy with the old deck, it struggles on wet bermuda with clumps etc.
Like I said, Ive got a couple of years for things to change.
I agree with you. Hustler will make a great bush hog, especially going down hill.

Mickhippy
09-19-2006, 02:42 AM
A little slow going up, thats for sure. LOL ...:rolleyes:

tacoma200
09-19-2006, 02:47 AM
Cool pic Mick! Looks better than my cut with short grass on flat ground. Love to visit there on day. Maybe I could trade the Hustler for round trip tickets.

Mickhippy
09-19-2006, 02:56 AM
Thanks mate. yep, she cuts pretty well with the blades Im using. Its just the clumping when wet thats the bugger.

Need to get it cutting properly for round trip tickets mate, in coach! haaaa Sorry, thats a shocker!

puppypaws
09-19-2006, 05:35 AM
I've posted a few pics of this area. We have people come from all over the state to ride there sand rails, 4 wheelers, & motorbikes in the dunes. Summer time 1000's of crazies are camping on the dunes during holidays here. You can see the start of the sand dunes at the top of the 1st picture it goes for miles. We have a large lake that most of my lawns are located on. Here is a few pics.
I will find some Exmark stripes and post too. On my best lawns there isn't that much difference in quality after double cutting with the mulcher on. These are all pics using the mulching kits on both mowers. The bottom pic has 2 stripes on the left made by the Hustler 66" ,the one on the right is the Exmark 60" this is on the 1st pass the Exmark looks better when you can see it from a wider view. But judge for yourself. I can live with the Hustler mulching, but side discharging with either mower I think stinks up here. But the Hustler is worse at laying over the grass on 1 pass.If you have people that are not satisfied with that work they have other underlying problems and it has nothing to do with grass, both cuts looked excellent by the pictures. The last picture comparing both mowers with one cut, are they both cutting in the same direction or is one mower cutting in one direction and one in the other, unless they are it is hard to tell but it looks like the Exmark on the far left then every other pass, is this correct? Every time I see pictures of the two cuts in comparison the Exmark always looks to be cut shorter but it just may be a cleaner looking cut, what do you think? What exact area are you located in so I can look at it, I can take your address and put it in my computer (or any address or location) and look at a aerial photo of your home. I can even tell you anything and everything you have around your house, if you gave me the addresses of your accounts I could look at the area you mow, it is really interesting.

puppypaws
09-19-2006, 06:21 AM
If you have people that are not satisfied with that work they have other underlying problems and it has nothing to do with grass, both cuts looked excellent by the pictures. The last picture comparing both mowers with one cut, are they both cutting in the same direction or is one mower cutting in one direction and one in the other, unless they are it is hard to tell but it looks like the Exmark on the far left then every other pass, is this correct? Every time I see pictures of the two cuts in comparison the Exmark always looks to be cut shorter but it just may be a cleaner looking cut, what do you think? What exact area are you located in so I can look at it, I can take your address and put it in my computer (or any address or location) and look at a aerial photo of your home. I can even tell you anything and everything you have around your house, if you gave me the addresses of your accounts I could look at the area you mow, it is really interesting.This is part of my farm, my house is on the lake with the long asphalt driveway and the chicken houses up behind it. http://local.live.com/?q=&FORM=BDRE

MJB
09-19-2006, 11:48 AM
If you have people that are not satisfied with that work they have other underlying problems and it has nothing to do with grass, both cuts looked excellent by the pictures. The last picture comparing both mowers with one cut, are they both cutting in the same direction or is one mower cutting in one direction and one in the other, unless they are it is hard to tell but it looks like the Exmark on the far left then every other pass, is this correct? Every time I see pictures of the two cuts in comparison the Exmark always looks to be cut shorter but it just may be a cleaner looking cut, what do you think? What exact area are you located in so I can look at it, I can take your address and put it in my computer (or any address or location) and look at a aerial photo of your home. I can even tell you anything and everything you have around your house, if you gave me the addresses of your accounts I could look at the area you mow, it is really interesting.

The far right is the Exmark stripe coming back at the camera and part of it going away. The left side are wider stripes both are the Hustler 66". The Exmark cut always appears shorter I had to put in 1/8 inch spacers to lower my Hustler to the same height. But the Exmark also lifts the turf more so it always looks better.
I'll just say I'm in the center of Wa state.

puppypaws
09-19-2006, 01:06 PM
The far right is the Exmark stripe coming back at the camera and part of it going away. The left side are wider stripes both are the Hustler 66". The Exmark cut always appears shorter I had to put in 1/8 inch spacers to lower my Hustler to the same height. But the Exmark also lifts the turf more so it always looks better.
I'll just say I'm in the center of Wa state.I never looked at that area, I always thought there was a lot of rain and everything is plush green but it looks like desert in the center of the state with no grass in alot of areas. I pulled up a close view and there is washes all in that area from water run off and erosion.
http://local.live.com/ Just keep hitting - or + and it will take you in and out of close up areas you want to see.

imograss
09-19-2006, 09:54 PM
Here is a pic of the spacers Hustler sent me to try when i first noticed the poor cut quality. The mower was only a few hours old when I tried the spacers. They created way to much build up and the blade bolts hit EVERYTHING. I saw no benefit from them whatsoever.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/imograss/000_0440.jpg

Mickhippy
09-23-2006, 12:18 AM
Thats some serious build up there!

puppypaws
09-24-2006, 05:24 PM
Tacoma we know Hustler got the mower back tell us what they did for you and what you are going to replace it with. Now if it is a hush hush deal and you can't talk it about just tell us.

Travis Followell
09-24-2006, 05:30 PM
Here is a pic of the spacers Hustler sent me to try when i first noticed the poor cut quality. The mower was only a few hours old when I tried the spacers. They created way to much build up and the blade bolts hit EVERYTHING. I saw no benefit from them whatsoever.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/imograss/000_0440.jpg
I think the only time the spacers are needed is when mowing tall overgrown stemmy stuff. I'd say that would be the only conditions where you could notice an improvement in the cut with the spacers but I could be wrong.