You mis-priced a job. What next?

[crawdad]

You mis-priced a job. We've all done it.
You gave a price to mow 35 bucks, and the lawn took way too long, and dulled your blades from all of the rocks. This lawn needs to be at least 50 bucks.
What do you do next?
1)Mow for the rest of the year at the too-low price, and adjust it next year.
2)Stop showing up
3)Give the customer a new price, and take it from there.
Crawdad

[Splicer]

Number 1...

[crawdad]

Number 1...
Continue to lose money?
Why?

[Runner]

How long have you been doing it? If you just started, I would just simply tell them..."Look, due to this ground being as rough as it is, and with all the oblects and such, I'm sorry, but I just cannot continue to service your lawnnfor $35. It would take a minimum of $50, and if you choose to try to find someone else to do it, I fully understand."
Just be honest, open, and upfront. They will understand, and it either gets you off the hook, or it gets youthe ompensation needed to make up for the extra time and care required to do this job at a profitable rate.

[KeystoneLawn&Landscaping]

I say number 1 also. In my opinion, when you give a customer a quote you stick with it. I'll bet when you give a quote and it takes less time, you don't lower your price! It's part of doing business, take the good with the bad, learn from both and adjust for the next quote.

[olderthandirt]

#3 Nothing to lose, Customer don't accept at least your not working for free

#4- sell the account to someone with "no overhead" they profit on all jobs :)

[dKoester]

When was the last time this lawn was cut before you cut it. How often will you be cutting this lawn. Do it a least once a week.

[noseha]

#3 Nothing to lose, Customer don't accept at least your not working for free

#4- sell the account to someone with "no overhead" they profit on all jobs :)


#3 what do you have to loose a cus. that you don't want? :rolleyes:
#4 do you have someone to give acct. too? :waving: :waving:
#5 clean up the lawn for a price! payup payup payup

[olderthandirt]

#4 do you have someone to give acct. too?

I said sell the account- theres always some new lco willing to give you $100 for a customer. This way you profit from signing the customer.

[stumpjumper]

One thing to consider is that your efficiency may improve after a couple of cuts. I have a couple I thought I had under bid, trimmed a few limbs, picked up a few things and talked to the customer about keeping it that way. The result was almost a 30% decrease in mowing time. Kept the account for the year so the time was well spent.

[J&R Landscaping]

When I get calls for lawns that havent been cut in a while, I will usually bump up the price a bit and explain to the customer that it wil take extra time. They usually dont have a problem.

On other odd properties, I wil tell the customer a slightly higher price and also explain the price MIGHT change BUT I CAN GURANTEE IT WONT RISE BY MORE THAN $10/ per cut. I have only used that policy about 4 or 5 times and actually, the property was intimidating because it took a lot LESS time than I was planning.

[dwlah]

When you give a price for a first time in awile cut how much do you mark up the first cut? (using a $35 yard for example)
Im not talking about one that needs/wants landscaping just mow trim edge blow

[noseha]

I said sell the account- theres always some new lco willing to give you $100 for a customer. This way you profit from signing the customer.

don't say he sign them to a con.:dizzy: how can you sell!

[olderthandirt]

don't say he sign them to a con.:dizzy: how can you sell!


QUOTE=noseha
#4 do you have someone to give acct. too? :hammerhead:

same way you can "give acct. too" :dizzy: :dizzy: :laugh: :laugh:

:waving:

[East Coast Lawn Choppers]

Yes we have done it a few times.We just ate it for the year and quoted higher the next year. One lawn we told the person we quoted too low and next year we will charge a little more and they offered to pay more this year. That is rare but it worked out good.

[crawdad]

#3 what do you have to loose a cus. that you don't want? :rolleyes:
#4 do you have someone to give acct. too? :waving: :waving:
#5 clean up the lawn for a price! payup payup payup

Can't clean it up without dynamite.
These are "love stones" coming up out of the ground.

I gave the guy a new price, and he said he figured I'd have to raise it, after mowing it a time or two.
Those of you who chose option number 1 would continue the job this year for a price that is too low, and next season you would have to explain an increase of over 40%
At this time, you would likely lose the job, giving yourself time to underbid another lawn.
Number three is the best answer in cases like this.

[Randy J]

...
On other odd properties, I wil tell the customer a slightly higher price and also explain the price MIGHT change BUT I CAN GURANTEE IT WONT RISE BY MORE THAN $10/ per cut. I have only used that policy about 4 or 5 times and actually, the property was intimidating because it took a lot LESS time than I was planning.


I agree with this. In all the places I've been, it seems the number 1 complaint of customers of any service company is a company that doesn't keep it's word. Surely when taking on a new yard it can't be too hard to explain that this is a 1-time price only, and the price will be adjusted for future cuts based upon your experience with the 1st cut. That way you may lose on the 1st cut, but you can adjust from there accordingly without going against your word. However, I'm of the firm opinion that if you give your word (sign a year long contract) you live up to it, no matter how bad you underestimated.

[daveintoledo]

you make mistakes and learn from them, but your word should be the most important thing to you, you under bid, its the tough luck rule.....finish the searson and raise it next year....

[crawdad]

... Surely when taking on a new yard it can't be too hard to explain that this is a 1-time price only, and the price will be adjusted for future cuts based upon your experience with the 1st cut. That way you may lose on the 1st cut, but you can adjust from there accordingly without going against your word. However, I'm of the firm opinion that if you give your word (sign a year long contract) you live up to it, no matter how bad you underestimated.

Your profile says you've only been in biz for a year, but, I feel you have a grip on it here. Best answer so far.


you make mistakes and learn from them, but your word should be the most important thing to you, you under bid, its the tough luck rule.....finish the searson and raise it next year....

Bullshirt, I ain't finishing out the season at a losing price. I told the customer it may change after a mow or two, and it did. There are advantages, as well as disadvantages, to not having signed contracts.

To all of the people who say, "finish the year at a loss, and raise the price next year,"
I ask this, "How many times have you done this, and kept the customer the next year?"

[olderthandirt]

To all of the people who say, "finish the year at a loss, and raise the price next year,"
I ask this, "How many times have you done this, and kept the customer the next year?"

I ask how many have worked at a loss and stayed in business for the "next" year. :dizzy:

[Brendan Smith]

I ask how many have worked at a loss and stayed in business for the "next" year. :dizzy:
just the stupid people.

[Splicer]

Your profile says you've only been in biz for a year, but, I feel you have a grip on it here. Best answer so far.
Excuse me:confused: ??? WTF??? I and another said #1...If you couldn't figure out for yourself that your word SHOULD be your bond...does that make my answer any less than best???

When you take on a new customer and give them a price...you best explain at that time what the price you quoted includes...As a customer and you trying that crap with me I'll take care of your decision...your fired...another LCO is only a stones throw away...

[FIRESCOOBY]

Well, this is my opinion (remember I am a rookie AND stupid).

I say #1 also. My word is just that. I was mowing a yard today matter of fact that I am in the exact same situation. I was getting aggravated, but only for a second. You have to realize that YOU are the one that quoted the price, not the customer. You (I) made the mistake, learn from it, keep your word, adjust next year.

On the other end of the spectrum: I had a customer that had a fenced in back yard. I had to push the entire rear. Quoted $55/cut. About mid-season, she had the fence removed. I lowered the price to $45/cut. Did I have to? No. Was I stupid to? Maybe. This is in a Million+ neighborhood, so she could afford it. Does that matter to me? Nope. I do what I think is fair to me and the customer. That way, no regrets (to me).

[topsites]

Number 1...

Same here, because my reasoning is:
1) Chalks up a ton of experience, education is not free and this is the price we must sometimes pay.
2) You win some, you lose some.
3) A deal is a deal.

The only way I would not show up is if I felt I was tricked into giving the too low price.

As far as quoting a higher price, that won't fly with me but I have been known to raise the price by $5 mid-season, just kinda slip it in there, it's still too low but it does help... Still, it's a tricky gamble. I have also been upfront about it, finish the job and come time to get paid, just let it out, let them know I made a mistake, sometimes it works.

[topsites]

One thing to consider is that your efficiency may improve after a couple of cuts. I have a couple I thought I had under bid, trimmed a few limbs, picked up a few things and talked to the customer about keeping it that way. The result was almost a 30% decrease in mowing time. Kept the account for the year so the time was well spent.

You know that brings up an excellent point as well, it has been some time since I practiced what you preach, but underbidding forces you to become leaner and meaner, and if you can figure out how to still make a profit at the new low price, you got yourself an edge that is hard to beat.

Far as dull blades, that really don't bother me but so much...
Way I look at it: Let them get dull, sharp ones go on every day, and this is the reason why.

Try and remember the trouble spots and feel free to throw or move certain rocks out of the way (if feasible). Trust me, I got a few yards worthy of mountaingoats lol, it takes 2-3 cuts until I'm used to it, then all of a sudden like was quoted, it becomes peachy and I'm making out decent.

p.s.: I have been known to schedule the tougher yards later in the day and my class-A lawns early on, but still sharp blades daily and don't do the scheduling trick too much, let everyone get sharp blades first cut I always say.
p.s.s.: A light-weight fixed deck Wb really makes a difference when you're constantly having to lift the deck, as does having two mowers (an older and a newer one heheh).

[crawdad]

Excuse me:confused: ??? WTF??? I and another said #1...If you couldn't figure out for yourself that your word SHOULD be your bond...does that make my answer any less than best???

When you take on a new customer and give them a price...you best explain at that time what the price you quoted includes...As a customer and you trying that crap with me I'll take care of your decision...your fired...another LCO is only a stones throw away...

I'd be fired if I was mowing for you? You'd expect me to mow at a loss, even though I told you, before the first mow, the price may change after a mow or two?
In that case, I'd be glad to be "fired" and lose a PITA.
This is a business to me, not a hobby.

[Randy J]

I think the point is, if you told them the price may be adjusted after the first mow, then I would agree it's ok to raise the price. However, if I gave them the price, with no mention of adjustment (verbal contract), then I gave them my word and I believe in living up to it.
FIRESCOOBY, you probably will gain several more customers from treating that one so fair. Of course you may not, but that's not the point - you feel good about yourself because you treated the customer fair.

[daveintoledo]

[QUOTE=
Bullshirt, I ain't finishing out the season at a losing price. I told the customer it may change after a mow or two, and it did. There are advantages, as well as disadvantages, to not having signed contracts.

To all of the people who say, "finish the year at a loss, and raise the price next year,"
I ask this, "How many times have you done this, and kept the customer the next year?"[/QUOTE]


i have done it and keep the customer every time, just said the truth, i under bid last year and this is what it should cost and they said no porblem.

this is how you learn to bid properties, not by asking what to charge on here......and i have learned to bid accuratly now.....:)

[Splicer]

I'd be fired if I was mowing for you? You'd expect me to mow at a loss, even though I told you, before the first mow, the price may change after a mow or two?
In that case, I'd be glad to be "fired" and lose a PITA.
This is a business to me, not a hobby.
Then start acting like a business man...In your initial post you say NOTHING...about the price quoted...as being one that may change after the first cut...If you want to act like a business...then you should know how to bid a property...Believe me...I would be glad to be rid of you...You NON-businessman...:hammerhead:
You mis-priced a job. We've all done it.
You gave a price to mow 35 bucks, and the lawn took way too long, and dulled your blades from all of the rocks. This lawn needs to be at least 50 bucks.
What do you do next?

[stumpjumper]

Well this IS new, Dave[the kinder gentler one]and I are in complete agreement on this one. By the way Crawdad were the rocks invisible when you walked the property.

[crawdad]

Then start acting like a business man...In your initial post you say NOTHING...about the price quoted...as being one that may change after the first cut...If you want to act like a business...then you should know how to bid a property...Believe me...I would be glad to be rid of you...You NON-businessman...:hammerhead:
I've been insulted by someone who claims to be in business for how long... lets see...
Join Date: 02-26-2006
...

Years in business:
0
In my initial post, I didn't give all of the details of my conversation with the client, of course I didn't, the post would be too long, and would need explaining to people like you. You should have asked for more details, if the post wasn't clear to you.



Well this IS new, Dave[the kinder gentler one]and I are in complete agreement on this one. By the way Crawdad were the rocks invisible when you walked the property.
Yes. many of them were covered by excessive growth. Any more questions?

[stumpjumper]

No sir I believe that'll do it for me.:waving:

[sheshovel]

Then start acting like a business man...In your initial post you say NOTHING...about the price quoted...as being one that may change after the first cut...If you want to act like a business...then you should know how to bid a property...Believe me...I would be glad to be rid of you...You NON-businessman...:hammerhead:
Sorry there Splicer..crawdad knows more about running this business than you will ever forget:cool2:
(or something like that)
His answer that #3 IS the correct one. When you give an ESTIMATE for a job it's just that an ESTIMATE..not your word written in blood. No one said anything about a contract in this scenario, of course if you signed a contract with that estimate you have to stick to it.
But your contract should include giving you an out to increase your prices when circumstances warrant an increase due to gas prices and the costs of running your business.
So the point here is not your word as your bond. It is underestimating a job and what you do about it in order to remain solvent and not loose $$ all year on that job because of it.
You inform your customer of your mistake and you give him the new price. If he accepts that fine. If he does not then you cannot continue to work that job as a loss all year. An estimate is just that, and estimate.
The real way to keep this from happening is to cover your butt by informing the customer that there may be circumstances that make the price go up after you mow it the 1st time. Also to fully inspect the lawn and areas you are to mow before spitting a price out of your mouth.

[Splicer]

Sorry there Splicer..crawdad knows more about running this business than you will ever forget:cool2:
(or something like that)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now that I've wiped the tears of laughter from my eyes...

Again...the initial post states NOTHING about ESTIMATES:hammerhead: IF that is what was meant (unlikely:rolleyes: ) that is what should have been written...:hammerhead: The initial post states:You mis-priced a job. He gave a firm price...He is a crybaby that when things don't go his way...he changes the rules...to suit himself...Sheshovel...quit flappin the yapper when you don't know what you are flappin about...:nono:

[sheshovel]

You think... Mr. Senior Member that Sheshovel is a Platinum Member of this site because she does not know what she is talking about? Think again.

[crawdad]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now that I've wiped the tears of laughter from my eyes...

Again...the initial post states NOTHING about ESTIMATES:hammerhead: IF that is what was meant (unlikely:rolleyes: ) that is what should have been written...:hammerhead: The initial post states: He gave a firm price...He is a crybaby that when things don't go his way...he changes the rules...to suit himself...Sheshovel...quit flappin the yapper when you don't know what you are flappin about...:nono:

The initial post said nothing about estimates, and how to give them, because I thought I was talking to pros. My mistake, I didn't account for people like you.

Here's my initial post, so you can re-read it. where did I agree to work for the rest of my life for the same price?

You mis-priced a job. We've all done it.
You gave a price to mow 35 bucks, and the lawn took way too long, and dulled your blades from all of the rocks. This lawn needs to be at least 50 bucks.
What do you do next?
1)Mow for the rest of the year at the too-low price, and adjust it next year.
2)Stop showing up
3)Give the customer a new price, and take it from there.
Crawdad
I mowed it for the agreed upon price. 35 dollars. That's a days pay, for you, at McDonalds, or wherever your primary job is located.
For future mowings, the price must be higher in order to make money.
Why do you have a problem with that? Why would you mow it at a loss?

I apologize for not giving the full content of the conversation with the new client, I didn't know I was dealing with people here who don't know how to give estimates.

If my initial post was too brief to make a decision, why were you so quick to choose "number 1?" Why didn't you ask questions, as other, more experienced people did?

I didn't get this much trouble from my new client, he didn't give me as much shyt as you did. I could have raised it more than I did, and kept the job.
A bit of advice.
Keep your day job.

[Splicer]

You think... Mr. Senior Member that Sheshovel is a Platinum Member of this site because she does not know what she is talking about? Think again.
It means...you flap your yap alot...is what it means...:dizzy: :hammerhead::laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Splicer]

The initial post said nothing about estimates, and how to give them, because I thought I was talking to pros. My mistake, I didn't account for people like you.

If you admit to estimates not even being an issue or mentioned...why are we discussing estimates???:hammerhead: :confused:

Here's my initial post, so you can re-read it. where did I agree to work for the rest of my life for the same price?
When did I say you did? We were talking about the rest of the season...See??? You do not write what you intended...That is your problem...


I mowed it for the agreed upon price. 35 dollars. That's a days pay, for you, at McDonalds, or wherever your primary job is located.
For future mowings, the price must be higher in order to make money.
Why do you have a problem with that? Why would you mow it at a loss?
I have a problem with you not keeping your word because you screwed up...Not the customers fault yet you expect them to pay you for your mistake...Whats to say a month down the road you don't make another 'mistake'...and expect to be able to charge more again??? Where then is your motivation to give a rate that you yourself are satisfied with when all you have to do is raise the price???

I apologize for not giving the full content of the conversation with the new client, I didn't know I was dealing with people here who don't know how to give estimates.

You describe yourself to a 'T'...

If my initial post was too brief to make a decision, why were you so quick to choose "number 1?" Why didn't you ask questions, as other, more experienced people did?

Who besides yourself said the initial post was too short to make a decision??? I based my answer on the information provided by you in this topics initial post...Plain and simple you did not post ANYTHING other than what you did so why the F would I jump to conclusions as to what you really meant???:hammerhead:

I didn't get this much trouble from my new client, he didn't give me as much shyt as you did. I could have raised it more than I did, and kept the job.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
A bit of advice.
Keep your day job.

Don't need your advice to do that!!!:hammerhead: :laugh:

Gotta love the fact you changed your fight to estimates oNLY after shemouth said estimate...C'mon...If you have been in business so long...how come you don't know the difference between a bid and an estimate??? You bid $35.00...Keep your word and don't under bid yourself next time...

[crawdad]

Now you're really grasping.
Please pull your head out of your azz and try again.

[Splicer]

Now you're really grasping.
Please pull your head out of your azz and try again.
I'm grasping???:confused: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Between you and Ms. It...I haven't laughed so hard...in years!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Couldn't you come up with anything better??? Like...You were wrong??? Cause you are you know...:hammerhead:

[crawdad]

I'm grasping???:confused: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Between you and Ms. It...I haven't laughed so hard...in years!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Couldn't you come up with anything better??? Like...You were wrong??? Cause you are you know...:hammerhead:

In what way was I wrong? Please explain why you made a decision, based on a short post, and get all perturbed because you didn't get the right answer.

These two respondents replied with questions, saying, in effect, they needed more info to make an informed decision in this matter.
These are both good replies.
How long have you been doing it? If you just started, I would just simply tell them..."Look, due to this ground being as rough as it is, and with all the oblects and such, I'm sorry, but I just cannot continue to service your lawnnfor $35. It would take a minimum of $50, and if you choose to try to find someone else to do it, I fully understand."
Just be honest, open, and upfront. They will understand, and it either gets you off the hook, or it gets youthe ompensation needed to make up for the extra time and care required to do this job at a profitable rate.

When was the last time this lawn was cut before you cut it. How often will you be cutting this lawn. Do it a least once a week.

You, on the other hand, responded right away with...
Number 1...


If I didn't give enough info, why did you answer at all?

Do I need to explain the entire conversation with the client, and the process of pricing a new job?

[Splicer]

After explaining it...over and over and over...Yet you still insist on yet aother...Man...you really are friggin hopeless...:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[crawdad]

After explaining it...over and over and over...Yet you still insist on yet aother...Man...you really are friggin hopeless...:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

You're right. I have explained it enough times. Everyone understands, except for you.

[crawdad]

Let's try to be friends. So, you have a 10 cu ft Dump Cart? Wow. Really?
How do you like it?
...and how do you know that your lawn roller weighs 400 pounds? Have you weighed it?

[Splicer]

When you use the word...'try'...you have already failed...:hammerhead:

[crawdad]

So, hows that Craftsman mower running?

[crawdad]

When you use the word...'try'...you have already failed...:hammerhead:
And when you fail to try, you try to fail...

[Splicer]

So, hows that Craftsman mower running?
:weightlifter: :weightlifter: :weightlifter: :usflag: payup

[crawdad]

:weightlifter: :weightlifter: :weightlifter: :usflag: payup

Not so good, eh? Sorry to hear that.

[Splicer]

Not so good, eh? Sorry to hear that.
;) Where the F...did you get that from???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[crawdad]

;) Where the F...did you get that from???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Well, you didn't use any words, just them stupid smileys, so I had to do the same thing you did to my initial post, and read it to say what I wanted to hear!

[Splicer]

Well, you didn't use any words, just them stupid smileys, so I had to do the same thing you did to my initial post, and read it to say what I wanted to hear!
:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
Read it however suits you...nothing new in that...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[olderthandirt]

Splicer
Member Crawdad has many yrs experience, I know this from reading his post and his info.
If your gonna argue with a long time member then you need to be armed with the facts and experience to back up your argument. As much as you want to believe that #1 is the correct answer its can't be. No profit no business!
If you try and run a lawn or landscaping business and lose money because you gave your word you won't last for another yr. When the customer gets use to a low price he will just find another lawn boy to continue the low price the following yr. when you try and raise your rates 40%
Estimates are educated guesses- sometimes there right sometimes there wrong, but then you go back and correct the mistake which Crawdad did.

[crawdad]

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
Read it however suits you...nothing new in that...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

WTF is wrong with you?
You still think I gave a solid price to the customer, and ripped him off?
Show me where I said I gave him a solid permanant price, or STFU

[1MajorTom]

calm down folks, don't think there's much more either of you can say to one another, maybe take a break on this thread.....

[crawdad]

calm down folks, don't think there's much more either of you can say to one another, maybe take a break on this thread.....
There are still a few smileys he hasn't used on me.
it's your fault, jodi, you wanted me to start some threads, get some discussion going...
Screw this, I'm gonna go start a disagreement with GEO, at least he disagrees politely.

[Splicer]

calm down folks, don't think there's much more either of you can say to one another, maybe take a break on this thread.....
Only cause I like your eye...:laugh:

[1MajorTom]

thanks guys for understanding, you're both good guys... well at least splicer is, i'm not sure about that crawdad dude... ha ha, just joking with ya crawdad. :)
and yes crawdad, getting some discussion going is always good, please continue, 2 measly threads aint enough. :laugh:

[Randy J]

...As much as you want to believe that #1 is the correct answer its can't be. No profit no business!
If you try and run a lawn or landscaping business and lose money because you gave your word you won't last for another yr. When the customer gets use to a low price he will just find another lawn boy to continue the low price the following yr. when you try and raise your rates 40%
Estimates are educated guesses- sometimes there right sometimes there wrong, but then you go back and correct the mistake which Crawdad did.

While I certainly can't argue with "no profit, no business" Mac, I think what is hanging many of us up is the question of someone's word. I think if the initial bid was given with the understanding that the price was subject to change for whatever reason, then most of us would certainly agree with the price increase. However, I believe that if I go out and inspect the yard, and due to whatever mistake I give a price that doesn't allow me to make money, and the customer accepts my offer, and hires me for the rest of the year, I would certainly live with the price I offered. I agree that if I'm not making money I won't be in business for long. However, I look at the additional business keeping my word will earn me. As well as the additional business going back on my word will cost me. Now granted that's an unknown, and in many cases keeping your word will only get you taken advantage of, but that's an important part of any business to me.

[olderthandirt]

While I certainly can't argue with "no profit, no business" Mac, I think what is hanging many of us up is the question of someone's word. I think if the initial bid was given with the understanding that the price was subject to change for whatever reason, then most of us would certainly agree with the price increase. However, I believe that if I go out and inspect the yard, and due to whatever mistake I give a price that doesn't't allow me to make money, and the customer accepts my offer, and hires me for the rest of the year, I would certainly live with the price I offered. I agree that if I'm not making money I won't be in business for long. However, I look at the additional business keeping my word will earn me. As well as the additional business going back on my word will cost me. Now granted that's an unknown, and in many cases keeping your word will only get you taken advantage of, but that's an important part of any business to me.

Randy,
I only use written contract for a reason :) they state that the price may change if any conditions change, which can mean a new flower bed to mow around or rocks that I did'nt see.
I'm all for keeping my word and it is golden until it comes to a situation like this.
Keep your word and you end up not making or loosing $$$$$ on the account and you set a price for that 1 person and the neighborhood. So the following yr the neighbors will expect a cheap cut along with your customer. All the explaining in the world will be useless when they can and will find someone else to mow it for $35 after they tell that person thats what they have been paying. I would rather take my chance that the customer would understand the price increase and if they talked the neighbors would know how much to expect, than stand on my word and loose $$$$ and bring the cost of business down in the whole neighborhood. Once its down it takes yrs to build the price back up

[Randy J]

Well put. I certainly can't argue - even if I don't fully agree.

[crawdad]

While I certainly can't argue with "no profit, no business" Mac, I think what is hanging many of us up is the question of someone's word. I think if the initial bid was given with the understanding that the price was subject to change for whatever reason, then most of us would certainly agree with the price increase. ...

When I first gave the price, it was agreed that the price would be 45 for the first cut, as it was overgrown, then go down to 35, and I'd let him know if I could continue it for that price. He agreed.
After cutting the lawn twice, I talked to the owner, and told him that it would have to be 50 dollars. He replied, " No problem. I figured you'd have to go up after you saw how bad it is."
Of course, when using verbal agreements, a person's word is everything. This is why, after all of these years in this business, I have never been stiffed. I do good work, and I always get paid.

[nobagger]

Number 3, why should you keep loosing money. And I'm sure they aren't going to accept a $20.00 increase next year.:waving:

[DynaMow]

If crawdad is so experienced why did he underbid? Sounds not to experienced to me. Plus if you have only owned a lawn service for a year it doesn't mean you do not have business experience.

Crawdad didn't explain everything in his original post, Splicer just gave his opinion on what he would do. I do not agree with him though, if you keep doing it the first year, the second year you could lose it, or if they do go for the increase now you are mowing for two years at no profit (2nd year just breaks even with loss in first year)

Crawdad if you already knew the answer why did you ask? I think I know why, cause you are an ________!

So the answer should be #4, keep at the higher rate that you told the client about originally, but you did not give that as an option!

[crawdad]

If crawdad is so experienced why did he underbid? Sounds not to experienced to me. Plus if you have only owned a lawn service for a year it doesn't mean you do not have business experience.

Crawdad didn't explain everything in his original post, Splicer just gave his opinion on what he would do. I do not agree with him though, if you keep doing it the first year, the second year you could lose it, or if they do go for the increase now you are mowing for two years at no profit (2nd year just breaks even with loss in first year)

Crawdad if you already knew the answer why did you ask? I think I know why, cause you are an ________!

So the answer should be #4, keep at the higher rate that you told the client about originally, but you did not give that as an option!

OK!
If any of you want to mow it for 35 or 45, come on down, I will give up the 50 dollar job for you. I've got plenty of work. At my prices.



Why did I ask? To see what others would do, given a similar situation.
Why did I underbid? Because many of the freekin rocks were covered by excessive growth. Re-read the thread, ask questions, if you don't understand.

No, I didn't put everything in the original post. Do you want the entire conversation?
I have been called a lot of things, but this is the first time I have been called a _________! Wow! That hurt!

There were many more options that I didn't give. I could have listed 10 different options, but preferred to see what others came up with.

If crawdad is so experienced why did he underbid? Sounds not to experienced to me....
Why did I underbid? Because I'm human, and I make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, but the mark of an experienced professional is how he fixes these mistakes.
Only one man was perfect, and they crucified Him.

[lawnwizards]

i believe that those that underbid and continue to work at the underbid price will start to regret their bid. this in turn leads to shotty work because you will dread cutting that account because you know you underbid and once you get there you will rush through giving them "the quoted price" lawn cut. instead of raising your rate after you knew you screwed up, you kept the low price, end up doing shotty work and then next year they find some other sucker to do it for "the price i paid last year". everyone should listen to mac, he knows how this stuff works. ask him how much prices have gone up since he started. thats why you don't stay at $35.

[Splicer]

Crawdad quit making excuses for your own shortcomings and trying (unsuccessfully I might add) to blame everyone else...CM was right..."cause you are an ________________!"

[crawdad]

Crawdad quit making excuses for your own shortcomings and trying (unsuccessfully I might add) to blame everyone else...CM was right..."cause you are an ________________!"

Sir, please show me where I am blaming somone else, or STFU.
You are not making any sense at all.

I'm not sure which I find to be funnier, the fact that you have a Craftsman, or the fact that you proudly list it in your sig line, along with such items as a dump cart.

[jcb287]

#1 then adjust price next season....:)

[sheshovel]

Ok Ok OK NOW we are getting into the diff between giving a
Price
Estimate
or a Bid.
You boy's seem a bit confused on this matter so let's get it cleared right up.
Splicer of course does not have to read the yapping and flapping of my jaw..god forbid the guy might want to actually LEARN something here.
OK in some of your views you think this
Giving a PRICE = I have to stick to it no matter what because if I don't then I am ripping off my customer because I told them a price and it was too low so now I will gladly work for FREE for a year, rather than admit to my customer I made a mistake and try to rectify the problem. I will work for no profit for a whole year because my word is my bond and I can't look like I made a mistake by upping my price after the first cut cuz then I might loose the job I am doing for free for the next year.

ESTIMATE = I have no idea what this job will be so I am gonna throw out the first figure that comes into my head and see if they go for it. If I am too low I will eat it but if I am too high I will keep it. my word IS my bond and that's that.

BID = Same thing as a price and the same rules will
apply. Not an estimate though because it is a solid as a price it and can't be changed no matter if I am going broke and paying for the customers work to be done by me rather than the customer actually paying me for the work. Matters not I bid the job wrong and I will slit my wrists rather than adjust my bid. Might make me look like I don't know what I am doin or something.

Real life view of these terms
Giving a
PRICE = Verbal agreement-Telling a customer what you will do the job for and you really think that IS what you will do the job for. BUT once you do the job, if any conditions exist that will increase your labor and or increase your costs, you inform the customer of what those conditions are and what your price is going to have to be adjusted to and you take your chances of them saying nevermind. If you do anything other than that you are not in a business state of being and if you are you will not be for long.

ESTIMATE = Always done on paper-A breakdown of materials and labor costs to do a job for a potential customer. The job can go over or under this estimate depending on unforeseen conditions that you may run into during the job.
It is open to add-ons or changes by the customer during the work but when that happens then you immediately inform the customer that that is not within the original est and you write them up a new estimate including the add-ons or changes. Or you write them up a separate estimate for each job outside the original estimate.They sign it


BID = Always done on paper- Competing with other companies for one large job. They have announced they are accepting bids for a certain amount of time. You find out the description and scope of the job and you write up a bid that will be scrutinized by this company alongside
other companies that do the same kind of work you do.
Only one bid is accepted and if it is yours then you have to stick to that bid for however long the bid and final contract state.

[crawdad]

Ok Ok OK NOW we are getting into the diff between giving a
Price
Estimate
or a Bid.
You boy's seem a bit confused on this matter so let's get it cleared right up.
Splicer of course does not have to read the yapping and flapping of my jaw..god forbid the guy might want to actually LEARN something here.
OK in some of your views you think this
Giving a PRICE = I have to stick to it no matter what because if I don't then I am ripping off my customer because I told them a price and it was too low so now I will gladly work for FREE for a year, rather than admit to my customer I made a mistake and try to rectify the problem. I will work for no profit for a whole year because my word is my bond and I can't look like I made a mistake by upping my price after the first cut cuz then I might loose the job I am doing for free for the next year.

ESTIMATE = I have no idea what this job will be so I am gonna throw out the first figure that comes into my head and see if they go for it. If I am too low I will eat it but if I am too high I will keep it. my word IS my bond and that's that.

BID = Same thing as a price and the same rules will
apply. Not an estimate though because it is a solid as a price it and can't be changed no matter if I am going broke and paying for the customers work to be done by me rather than the customer actually paying me for the work. Matters not I bid the job wrong and I will slit my wrists rather than adjust my bid. Might make me look like I don't know what I am doin or something.

Real life view of these terms
Giving a
PRICE = Verbal agreement-Telling a customer what you will do the job for and you really think that IS what you will do the job for. BUT once you do the job, if any conditions exist that will increase your labor and or increase your costs, you inform the customer of what those conditions are and what your price is going to have to be adjusted to and you take your chances of them saying nevermind. If you do anything other than that you are not in a business state of being and if you are you will not be for long.

ESTIMATE = Always done on paper-A breakdown of materials and labor costs to do a job for a potential customer. The job can go over or under this estimate depending on unforeseen conditions that you may run into during the job.
It is open to add-ons or changes by the customer during the work but when that happens then you immediately inform the customer that that is not within the original est and you write them up a new estimate including the add-ons or changes. Or you write them up a separate estimate for each job outside the original estimate.They sign it


BID = Always done on paper- Competing with other companies for one large job. They have announced they are accepting bids for a certain amount of time. You find out the description and scope of the job and you write up a bid that will be scrutinized by this company alongside
other companies that do the same kind of work you do.
Only one bid is accepted and if it is yours then you have to stick to that bid for however long the bid and final contract state.

Great post. You're pretty smart, for a girl. :drinkup:

[sheshovel]

Gee thank's and always have to run around here protecting your azz too!
Hey I need to get paid for this huh?
Well won't matter I was late getting back to this thread and everybody has abandoned it so my wonderful wisdom will be a waste of type anyway. That Splicer just pizzed me off when he told me all I was doing was flapping my jaws. How dare him!
He best not let me catch him unawares in a thread.

[Splicer]

Sir, please show me where I am blaming somone else, or STFU.
You are not making any sense at all.

READ THE THREAD and pay attention to what you wrote!!!:hammerhead:

I'm not sure which I find to be funnier, the fact that you have a Craftsman, or the fact that you proudly list it in your sig line, along with such items as a dump cart.

Now why did you have to go and cut me like that...Damn man...that just hurts...:rolleyes:

And Sheflapper...when someone has something to offer to learn...I gladly learn...So far you just confirmed my prior post about you flappin yer yap just to hear your gums bump...and Crawdud confirms how intelligent he is by quoting not just part...but yes...your ENTIRE post...for the very next post!!!:rolleyes: :hammerhead:

[crawdad]

Gee thank's and always have to run around here protecting your azz too!
Hey I need to get paid for this huh?
Well won't matter I was late getting back to this thread and everybody has abandoned it so my wonderful wisdom will be a waste of type anyway. That Splicer just pizzed me off when he told me all I was doing was flapping my jaws. How dare him!
He best not let me catch him unawares in a thread.

Something tells me that won't be difficult.
Don't worry about the cable guy, no one over 16 takes him seriously.

That was a very well written post, but i just had to sneak in a sexist remark, because I know you have a sense of humor.

[crawdad]

READ THE THREAD and pay attention to what you wrote!!!:hammerhead:



Now why did you have to go and cut me like that...Damn man...that just hurts...:rolleyes:

And Sheflapper...when someone has something to offer to learn...I gladly learn...So far you just confirmed my prior post about you flappin yer yap just to hear your gums bump...and Crawdud confirms how intelligent he is by quoting not just part...but yes...your ENTIRE post...for the very next post!!!:rolleyes: :hammerhead:

I did that because I knew it would be on the next page, and some people here are easily confused. (I won't name any names, cable-guy, to avoid embarassing you)

[Splicer]

Cuts like a knife...:rolleyes: :laugh: :hammerhead:

[sheshovel]

Something tells me that won't be difficult.
Don't worry about the cable guy, no one over 16 takes him seriously.

That was a very well written post, but i just had to sneak in a sexist remark, because I know you have a sense of humor.

Gee your so nice to me. Yes, that kind of remark is not sexist to me anymore. I am much more offended by idiots who refuse to understand just how wonderful I am and acknowledge my greatness in this business. Course I have only been giving prices, estimates and bids for the past 16 years and doing all these landscaping jobs for all that time as well so you know, I am just flapping my mouth I really have no idea what I am talking about because I have boobs and a nice butt and blond hair. Yep just some ditzy chick, rattle brained and stupid as a rock ya know.

[crawdad]

Sounds good. I respect you for your mind. Wanna cyber?

[lawnwizards]

Sounds good. I respect you for your mind. Wanna cyber?looks like you'll be googling by yourself tonight.:laugh:

[crawdad]

looks like you'll be googling by yourself tonight.:laugh:
That's OK. I can handle it.

[crawdad]

I remembered this thread, and thought I'd bump it up. The one who disagreed w/me the most, is now, I believe, out of business.
The last laugh I think they call this... Ha... Ha...

[topsites]

I remembered this thread, and thought I'd bump it up. The one who disagreed w/me the most, is now, I believe, out of business.
The last laugh I think they call this... Ha... Ha...

I notice that a lot, but there were a few who picked 1 exclusively that I'm not so sure are still around.

I've changed my mind, I say it depends how badly underpriced it is.
A 45'er at 40 might not be that big of a deal, do it and suck it up.
But a 60'er at 40 there's just no way, I'd likely not show up.

You can try 3, but I don't think it will work.
If you underbid it, my opinion is you likely ruined this one and it is quite possible it will take this customer a long time before they make the adjustment, their mind is set to the first price you gave, there's almost never much doing, don't even bother.

It's not that this is the best answer from a customer relations perspective but I tell you this much:
- Customers are no more loyal or reliable or honest than that either.
> I used to have that kind of determination to always do right, but boy did I get shown how it works.
>> Once I experienced that over and over, it changed my tune.
- Explanations, in my experience, do little to no good.
> I've explained till I'm blue in the face, nowadays I save my breath.

So ...

[Sammy]

He listed as being in the biz 34 years. :laugh:
After all that time, all he had was a Crapsman mower ? :laugh:

By the way, #3 was the correct answer. ..... No need to explain, as those that are in the know, know !

[shane mapes]

it all depends on if the signed a one year contract or just month to month.if it is a month to month i would wait a few mowing's to see if the lawn gets easyer . then ask them to sign for a one year contract . then @ that point let them know how you feel and do the best job you can for them...hopefully you can work it out.. just dumping a customer is the start of bad work habits ......

[crawdad]

Someone else mowed it a few times, this year. Blew the grass out into the street...I can't stand that. What if a motorcycle comes over the hill, hits all that fresh grass?

[Dave_005]

for me it would be the 1st option, you quoted them the price, so now you should go by that price for the rest of the season and raise it a little next year. raising the price now would be going agaisnt your word and price that YOU gave them. and if you simply stop showing up it becomes Very Unprofessional on your aprt and shows the customer you are Not Dependable and Very Unreliable. word of mouth is Great advertising unfortunately its works the other way too. Don;t show up and they could spread the word to everyone they know NOT to call you because you Gave them a Price to do the job and once they gave you the account you wanted to raise it right away or worse yet No show up. we all under quoted at one time or another, but the fact is YOU gave them a price They said yes, now You Should live up to the Price that YOU GAVE THEM. a Good learning experience

[topsites]

Well all right, I can see option 3 being feasible seeing how you got nothing left to lose. Tell them you made a mistake, sorry, new price, let it go, either way you're off the hook.

Because if it's grossly under priced, no, there's no way I'm doing it.

[crawdad]

for me it would be the 1st option, you quoted them the price, so now you should go by that price for the rest of the season and raise it a little next year. raising the price now would be going agaisnt your word and price that YOU gave them....

Yes, I gave them a price, and told them it may change after a mow or 2. How is that going against my word?

Have you ever done the first option? How did it work out for you? Did you lose money the first year, and lose the customer the second year?

[shane mapes]

Yes, I gave them a price, and told them it may change after a mow or 2. How is that going against my word?

Have you ever done the first option? How did it work out for you? Did you lose money the first year, and lose the customer the second year?

your response sounds fair... thats good advice we all should try to do........

[martinfan06]

Yes, I gave them a price, and told them it may change after a mow or 2. How is that going against my word?

Have you ever done the first option? How did it work out for you? Did you lose money the first year, and lose the customer the second year?

Well IMO could of saved about 7 pages of replies if in the original post you would have stated that you told them it might change, big difference IMO.

[crawdad]

Well IMO could of saved about 7 pages of replies if in the original post you would have stated that you told them it might change, big difference IMO.
Well, anyone could have asked for more details, after my first post.
But, I did mention it on page 2.

[topsites]

I still think, if you decide option 3, that at least as often as not you will end up with a customer who will either become demanding, or a talker (the kind that comes out when you're there, and wastes however much time chit chatting). Doesn't really matter what you say or said, sometimes to tell them it might be more in advance is just as daring a move, too, but I do agree that is not a bad idea but then if you've already given yourself that option then you really did not underbid, now did you?

We'd have to be complete utter morons not to increase the price when we realize it's going to cost more, WHEN you've already kept that option open and the customer has pre-agreed, heck you really didn't underbid here in my book, you were just hoping you could get it done for less but it didn't work out, that's a whole different scenario from a "dude did I foul this up or what?"

If you fouled it up so be it, but I'm not so sure option 3 is such a great 'in the know' idea either. You're just asking for it, this is the type of thing that breeds that crap, the tactic spawns a demon in their mind and what they end up doing is quenching that little demon's thirst at your expense. You quote too low a price now they had their mind set to that price, then all of a sudden it's more, fine, but even if they agree you still may have ruined this customer, if nothing else their mind set is all wrong now.

This is also why it is important to give the right price in the first place, add the crap up at least 2 but I prefer 3 separate ways, that way you can be somewhat sure you got it, all I'm saying. Even then it happens, oh well.

Because this is what I know, you decide but you always have to be careful.

[Dave_005]

I agree, once you give the customer a quote ALL He Hears is that price, you can tell him upfront it may go up but in his mind you already told him it will be X amount and thats what he Expects to pay, raise it after and 1. the customer wont be happy and 2. you may lose the account. thats why i Always say if you give a Quote then stick with your price for that season and raise it the following season if need be. if you underbid the yard then i would suck it up for this season and raise it next year, i mean if you bid MORE and finish faster then you expected you won't Lower your price would you ? so i say stick to the price you quoted for the one season then you can raise it next season

[crawdad]

...so i say stick to the price you quoted for the one season then you can raise it next season

Have you ever done this, and kept the customer the second year at the increased price?

[Dave_005]

Have you ever done this, and kept the customer the second year at the increased price?

yes, i have raised my prices at the beginning of the season and kept all my accounts, they understand prices go up, but what they tend to have a hard time with is when you raise the price after a week or two, when you give them the inital quote thats the price they hear and expect to pay for that season, raiseing it after a week or two does not make for happy customers. so i still say when you give a quote stick to the price you give for that season and raise it the next season if you need to.

[crawdad]

I'm so glad that losing money for the rest of the season, and waiting until next year to make money, has worked for you. I prefer to make money every time I work. My customer in this instance had no problem with my price adjustment, he even told me he expected it, although I wouldn't have cared if he dropped my services after the increase. It would have given me more time for profitable work.

[Dave_005]

i'm curious now, do you have someone else give out the quotes for you ? or do you give the quotes ? i mean as long as you;ve been doing this you still underbid ?

[crawdad]

Yes, many of the rocks were covered by tall grass, as the place was overgrown at first. That's why I told him it may be more.
Everyone makes mistakes, a professional learns to deal with them.