Thick lawns post#1

[hobbsd]

Ok, so this may be such a basic and general question, but what is teh sevret to getting a deep green thick "mat" lawn that everyone (customers) always want!

I have many lawns that I would call "healthy" bu they aren't thick! My lawns seem to grow very well especially verticly, but not really "fill in" and spread out. My first thought is that I am using too much N, but if I lower the N will that cause thickening, or just cause a lower top growth. Is there a micro-nutrient (Fe, Mg, etc...)that causes this desireable effect?

Some help would be much appreciated!

Thanks *trucewhiteflag*

[daveyo]

You mean something like this, this is my house. Most of my customers enjoy the same fruits of my labor. I always aerate, dethaching isn't big on my list. I always pay attention to soil, I don't get real crazy but I pay attention. Knowing your soil is key, from there you must follow a turf program specific to that soil or its readings. I love core aeration and power seeding correctly. Watering is extremely important, these pics were shot in very hot and humid August weather the lawn didn't suffer because of the right watering program.
P.S. Didn't have time to landscape yet, but its coming
O'Donnell

[olive123]

you cant have a thick lawn without a good strong root system. potash is key for that

[tremor]

Thick lawns are gauged by Leaves per square inch. This is influence by Plants per Square Inch & the number of leaves on each one.

Start with a soil test to insure all of the nutrients needed are available...Sow seed heavy in full sun...insure ideal moisture so as to enjoy decent germination...protect from ALL insect & disease...Keep Nitrogen on the high side so that each plant holds it's maximum 5 leaves. Mow twice a week.

Density will falter as soon as one or more of these details is neglected.

[hobbsd]

You mean something like this, this is my house. Most of my customers enjoy the same fruits of my labor. I always aerate, dethaching isn't big on my list. I always pay attention to soil, I don't get real crazy but I pay attention. Knowing your soil is key, from there you must follow a turf program specific to that soil or its readings. I love core aeration and power seeding correctly. Watering is extremely important, these pics were shot in very hot and humid August weather the lawn didn't suffer because of the right watering program.
P.S. Didn't have time to landscape yet, but its coming
O'Donnell


Beautiful lawn! But I can't get a soil sample for everyone of my customers! hmm, good suggestions though.

How important is the mowing schedule? I have been comming under the opinion that having it mowed twice a week (so it doesn't get too tall) is a very important step to obtaining a thickening lawn. Is that opinion correct??

Thanks:usflag:

[daveyo]

A soil sample is your best friend when taking over a lawn, ask questions if they recently fertilized obviously don't take a sample yet. If you don't want to take a soil sample then at least just look at the soil, is it hard, soft, mucky, smelly does it contain organic matter or is it new construction are there Oak trees Pine trees, or any other specific type of tree that could effect the lawn in any way. Mowing twice a week isn't practical as a lawn care operator. What they are referring to is not letting the grass get so tall that you are removing more than 1/3 of the blade at a time. This can stress out the grass and cause other problems, like disease and insect infestation. Any plant that is stressed is more vulnerable to attack. If your lawns are growing so fast that you need to cut twice a week you can tweak the N ratios per application, some lawns just need a little tweaking.

O'Donnell Landscaping

[dcgreenspro]

Thick lawns are gauged by Leaves per square inch. This is influence by Plants per Square Inch & the number of leaves on each one.

Start with a soil test to insure all of the nutrients needed are available...Sow seed heavy in full sun...insure ideal moisture so as to enjoy decent germination...protect from ALL insect & disease...Keep Nitrogen on the high side so that each plant holds it's maximum 5 leaves. Mow twice a week.

Density will falter as soon as one or more of these details is neglected.
i love how high n is the answer to everything. :hammerhead:

[dcgreenspro]

Height of cut??????
Aerification??????
Overseed??????
Topdressing???????
Timing of fert????????
Fert quality?????????


OR




Fertilize till you need to be cutting twice a week. I can't believe that someone actually recommended that. Must have worked for truegreen or chemlawn.

[hobbsd]

What kind of top dressing methods are commercially viable?

[David W]

I too enjoy a great lawn, but sometimes you can have a few problems that totally stump you. Bought my house back in December 05 and had 3 and 4 inch gaps where some knuckle heads installed fescue sod summer before. I topdress 75% of the lawn and overseeded in the Spring. It came in beautiful and thick as you see in my avatar and I put a High N fert 25-2-5 about two weeks later.

Look what happen at the end July - August in the pictures in the following thread. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=160584

I agree, soil test, and a fert program or you will run into problems like I did. Luckly for me a put down a fungicide and 10-10-10 and it is back to normal.

[Rayholio]

I do a soil sample for every single lawn I take care of... every year. I think it's too important to ignore.... but my competition apparently doesn't agree... I'm the only guy around that does this... and let me tell you... the customers recognize that this is above and beyond the normal, and it will lead to more referrals, and a general perception of professionalism...

I can EASILY charge $20 for a soil sample, and it's mandatory on my seasonal plans...

I make $10 per customer from the get-go and then when the soil sample reports come in, it's time to sell extra's!!!

if you have 100 customers, you're going to make $1000 in soil samples alone. and you can take the samples with your regular treatments, so no special trip is required...

but the best thing about mandatory soil samples is that when a customer ignores recommendations brought on by a soil sample, then you have something to tell them when there lawn isn't the best in the neighborhood!

[David W]

VERY NICE WEBSITE RAY!!!!

If you don't mind me asking, what type of mowers do you use and also, you use striping kits?!?!?

Your lawns look great!

[Rayholio]

I use a grasshopper.. but here's the wierd part... I don't mow! LOL my Pro-lawn sprayer is an attachment for the grasshopper.. and the Aeravator is great for seeding... who knows what other attachments I'll find a use for in the future...

but anyway... I get way too much business from mower guys... can't justify competeing with them...

[Runner]

VERY NICE WEBSITE RAY!!!!

If you don't mind me asking, what type of mowers do you use and also, you use striping kits?!?!?

Your lawns look great!

I have to step in here and say I fully agree. What a great site. Oh,...you DO have a typo and have the word technician mispelled, but it's minor. :)

[Rayholio]

Whoops! well thanks guys... I did actually put that site together myself.. and I even have a friend host it.. costs me about 15 bucks a year! LOL

Well.. I'm off to look for spelling errors!

[Doster's L & L]

If you want a nice, thick lawn, a soil sample analysis is nice to have, but applying what the test results determine necessary is essential! The soil chemistry is the foundation for a nice lawn, just as soil structure is for a house. If the soil is bad for one or the other, then it will certainly show, good or bad.

dcgreenspro got it right. High N rates will only give you high grass yields, which will increase thatch, which will harbor insects, and high N will also bring on turf diseases.

[hobbsd]

What are the optimum levels of N and P and K on the soil test? Also, what about micro nutrients? where should they be at?


thank you

[vegomatic40]

As a former Chemlawn and Trugreen employee I take exception to that remark. Many of the more informed/educated people that post on this site have a background with either or both companies. As far as slamming Tremor, it appears he was just giving general guidelines to a general question and can get as detailed, or, as complicated as is needed. If you look at many of his posts you will see what I mean. By the way.."aerification" is a term better suited for the Ponds forum as it has little to do with lawns/turf. I think you meant "aeration" and will give you the benefit of a doubt.

[stumper1620]

Whoops! well thanks guys... I did actually put that site together myself.. and I even have a friend host it.. costs me about 15 bucks a year! LOL

Well.. I'm off to look for spelling errors!
no offfences intended but, your 20 dollar referal program maybe, should have a disclaimer on it that tells the requirements. only because I see you offer one time service. 20 bucks to each for a referal could bite on a one timer each. JMO

[Rayholio]

I do see your point... hasn't been a problem yet though... my one time treatments are quite a bit more than my seasonal treatments... but I will probably clarify that...

I REALLY appriciate all of the observations!

[tremor]

Height of cut??????
Aerification??????
Overseed??????
Topdressing???????
Timing of fert????????
Fert quality?????????


OR




Fertilize till you need to be cutting twice a week. I can't believe that someone actually recommended that. Must have worked for truegreen or chemlawn.

Yep...25 years ago...Plus consulted for some of the highest visibility turf stands in the world.

Regardless how you feel about N & mowing, the tightest turfstands around are ALWAYS mowed more often than 7 days. The pro ball fields I work with are cut daily (or even twice). Greens & Tees are mowed daily.

If you want really tight turf on a home lawn you WILL be applying Nitrogen. You will also either be mowing every 4-5 days or using Primo.

Show me a lawn cut on a 7 day rotation you think is tight & I'll show you one that is tighter. Guaranteed.

Re-read what I posted. Density is all about "leaf blades per square inch". Leaf blades are produced in unnatural numbers by applying unnatural Nitrogen levels. If folks want what nature never intended then we must do things that aren't natural.

Think about that a bit before you jump.

Oh....Yes to all of your other questions too. :)