PDA

View Full Version : Got my soil test... 90 lb of lime per 1000??


Rayholio
09-27-2006, 12:20 AM
Allright... just got all my soil tests back... some lawns say "90" in the lime recommendation... I know that the nitrogen recommendations are per 1000...

so if this is right.. and some of my lawns call for 90lb per 1000... assuming that lime comes in 50lb bags... it'll take 18 bags to do a 10,000 ft lawn!??

sounds a little extreme... and what's the most you can put down in one app? And finally, how long after the app can you seed??

Thanks in advance for any help..

kootoomootoo
09-27-2006, 12:43 AM
Welcome to the real world.

How many friggin posts are we gonna read where some guy puts down 80lbs of lime (over the entire lawn)

....what the friggin hell will that do.

Rayholio
09-27-2006, 12:50 AM
I see your point... but everything else in a 50 lb bag will cover at least 5000 sq feet... so I can understand their confusion... seems like someone would have developed a more efficiant way to take care of that PH...

BSDeality
09-27-2006, 06:45 AM
you might want to research the lime you plan on using and making sure you can put down 90lbs/1000 in one shot. the most I recommend putting down in one season is 50lb/1000

YMMV

stumper1620
09-27-2006, 06:49 AM
Allright... just got all my soil tests back... some lawns say "90" in the lime recommendation... I know that the nitrogen recommendations are per 1000...

so if this is right.. and some of my lawns call for 90lb per 1000... assuming that lime comes in 50lb bags... it'll take 18 bags to do a 10,000 ft lawn!??

sounds a little extreme... and what's the most you can put down in one app? And finally, how long after the app can you seed??

Thanks in advance for any help..
5lbs per 100 or 50 lbs per 1000 is the max recommended.

Green Pastures
09-27-2006, 08:59 AM
It will require 2 applications to get that much lime down. Probably 3 or 4 applications to get your ph back into the range you need it.

Why?

Because it's commonly accepted that the soil can only "process" 50# of lime per 1k sq. ft. in one application to reduce ph by 1 point. By the time you can apply lime again.....usually twice a season.... your ph will have risen slightly again, requiring more lime.

Put 50# per 1K sq ft in 3 well spaced apps. Now, next spring and then again next fall, then recheck the ph levels.

dvmcmrhp52
09-27-2006, 09:14 AM
1-2 tons per acre is pretty common when it comes to farmers..........
Lawncare isn't much different and at 90/1000 you are at 1.9 tons per acre.
It does little good to drop that much lime on a lawn at one time because it washes out before it can be used.
Farmers regularly do over 1-2 tons per acre but it is being tilled under when applied, not top dressed.

Rayholio
09-27-2006, 09:39 AM
Great advice.... how long after this 1st app should I seed? or could I do them simo?

stumper1620
09-27-2006, 11:20 AM
Great advice.... how long after this 1st app should I seed? or could I do them simo?
You can do it same trip.

Rayholio
09-27-2006, 05:49 PM
Kinda what I figured... Thanks again!

You know.. it musta been really hard to learn this stuff, and get reliable information before the internet was big.... what a great time I live in! LOL

GrazerZ
09-27-2006, 11:25 PM
I thought you said in another post that you test every lawn that you treat. And You haven't come across a lawn this acid yet??? We have quite a few that come back at @150 lbs per 1000 sq ft. Its very important to get this under control. We go by 50 lbs per k per app max. 100 lbs per k per year max.

Rayholio
09-27-2006, 11:35 PM
Yep.. I test 'em all.... but this is also my 1st full year... LOL last year, I only had 16 customers! (started in august)

How long would you wait between 50lb per 1000 treatments?

GrazerZ
09-28-2006, 06:05 PM
I space them spring and fall.

tremor
09-29-2006, 10:29 AM
Before the internet we called it college. LOL

It isn't generally recommended, but when I bought this house the pH was in the low-mid 5's. The lab recommended 170-220 lbs of Lime per 1000 sq ft. The first winter here I waited for it to go dormant & then applied 150 lbs/1000. Yep....that was a half ton of lime on a postage stamp at one time. It still took 3 years to get the pH to 6.8 & holding. But today the simple 50 lbs every 2 years is all it takes to keep thing right.

I wouldn't try a stunt like that on actively growing turf. 70 lbs is the max I like to see at one time when growing. Most folks use less than that.

The old standard 35lbs/1000 is a waste of time when dealing with pH extremes so a personal consultation meeting with the client & a comprehensive plan are in order for those clients that are willing to pay for it.

ProLawns
09-30-2006, 07:24 AM
It will require 2 applications to get that much lime down. Probably 3 or 4 applications to get your ph back into the range you need it.

Why?

Because it's commonly accepted that the soil can only "process" 50# of lime per 1k sq. ft. in one application to reduce ph by 1 point. By the time you can apply lime again.....usually twice a season.... your ph will have risen slightly again, requiring more lime.

Put 50# per 1K sq ft in 3 well spaced apps. Now, next spring and then again next fall, then recheck the ph levels.

I believe you meant to say that lime raises the ph?

NAT
10-01-2006, 07:54 AM
I like to do spilt apps. ,one in midsummer and then in jan.most requirements are 40lb's per 1000 ,most bags are 40lbs .10,000 means 10 bags summer and 10bags winter. i like to do in winter for a little extra cash.hope it helps.

YardPro
10-01-2006, 07:58 AM
It will require 2 applications to get that much lime down. Probably 3 or 4 applications to get your ph back into the range you need it.

Why?

Because it's commonly accepted that the soil can only "process" 50# of lime per 1k sq. ft. in one application to reduce ph by 1 point. By the time you can apply lime again.....usually twice a season.... your ph will have risen slightly again, requiring more lime.

Put 50# per 1K sq ft in 3 well spaced apps. Now, next spring and then again next fall, then recheck the ph levels.


lime increases the ph, sulphur reduces it...

vegomatic40
10-01-2006, 09:10 AM
When soil tests indicate a recommended 50lb/K of lime or greater, I suggest using a product such as Solu-Cal or, Solu-Cal-S. While the cost is much higher per bag (about 4 times) you use 1/4 less product for a much more efficient product. I've re-tested only 4 wks. after applying and seen significant elevation of pH (1 point or more) without incorporation. This saves on labor, storage costs and some customers in this "MTV world" want the magic...NOW. I charge a premium for this service to keep the margin healthy. Check out these products through R.F. Morse and Son.

GrazerZ
10-01-2006, 09:06 PM
Is this solu cal the same stuff that lesco sells as liquid lime?

turfmann
10-28-2006, 09:16 AM
I did an application at a golf course this spring that was 3000 #/A gypsum and 2000 #/A lime, believe it or not. It was hard to see the turf through the two products. I thought that was crazy, but the place looked great all year long.

muddstopper
10-28-2006, 10:12 AM
This thread is old, but since it was brought back up I will add my two cents.
100lbs of lime is not uncommon in my area. Since I do mostly new seeding, I have learned to adjust my lime rates based on seed establishiment. I have found that rateas as low as 25lbs per K will reduce seed germination if applied at the same time as the seed in a surface application. If the lime is being incorporated into the soil, I can safely use the entire 100lb recommendation.
Lime's effectiveness is relative to the particle size of the liming material. The smaller the particles the faster it will work, but particle size doesnot reduce the amount of lime needed to provide the proper amount of calcium the soil needs. Lime recommendations are based on calcium requirements, not pH. Lime will raise the pH levels in the soil, but so will many other materials commonly found in fertilizers, includeing Magnesium,( Mandatory element in dolomitic limestone), which has 1.6 times the Ph raising effect as calcium. Potassium and sodium will also raise ph.

Lime should be applied based on incorporation into the soil and amounts used need to be lowered or increased according to that incorportion depth. Soil test results are usually based on either a 6-7or8 inch sampleing depth. It just makes sense that if your sample is for a 6 inch slice of soil that you lime recommendations are for that same 6 inch slice of soil, therefore if you are only appling the lime to the surface the amounts should be reduce. The standard rate is usually 15% of recommendation for every inch of soil incorporation. Surface applications should be 15% of the recommended amount since you are only appling the lime to the top one inch of the soil. This is where particle size come into a bigger role. Each particle of lime has the ability to nutralize appox a 1/8in radius around each particle. A 1lb particle will still just neutralize that same 1/8 in radius a micronized particle will neutralize. Finer grind materials such as the solu-cal or liquid lime will provide faster neutralization at lower rates, and will also translocate into the soil at a faster rate than normal ag or pulverized lime, but these products will not provide the necessary amount of calcium when applied at lower than soil test recommended rates. Also it has been stated many times on many websites that lime takes months or even years to work, but leaf samples of plants have shown lime to work its way into the leaf area of crops in as little as three days after a surface application of ag grade lime stone. It would appear that lime translocates a lot fast thru the soil than many would have us believe. Generally, with my applications I apply lime based on a three inch layer of soil ,or approx 45% of soil test recommendations for established lawns, and a 1 inch slice or 15% for a new seeding when the lime isnot being incorporated into the soil. This seems to work the best for me, but I suggest that you do your own experiments, starting on the low side of the limeing rates and work up to the point where you see the best results. You can always apply more lime if needed, but it is hard as heck to get rid of it if you over apply. My applications work like this.

New seeding
15% at time of seeding
45% as a followup approx 8-10 weeks after planting
40% approx 6 months aft second application.
new soil test in one year and apply full test recommendations.
New soil test every two years and apply as needed

Established lawns.
45% recommendation @first application
55% second application @ 6 months
New soil test at one year and applied at full recxommended rate.
New soil test every two years lime as needed

Once you have added all the lime that is needed, you will find that it will take very little to keep calcium levels where they should be, of course CEC playes a big role in how long the lime will stay around, as well as any other elements that are added to the soil.

dallen
10-28-2006, 04:16 PM
1-2 tons per acre is pretty common when it comes to farmers..........
Lawncare isn't much different and at 90/1000 you are at 1.9 tons per acre.
It does little good to drop that much lime on a lawn at one time because it washes out before it can be used.
Farmers regularly do over 1-2 tons per acre but it is being tilled under when applied, not top dressed.

Calcium is a very immobile element in the soil profile. A topical application of limestone will not move calcium down into the root zone. I expect that most soil tests and recommendations are based on a core sample of 4" to 6" in depth and therefor will not accurately evaluate the top 1/2" of soil. 1-2 tons per acre, tilled in, is equal to what amount surface applied? 4,000 lbs over 6" equals 333 lbs. over 1/2" Actually, 1/8" is more accurate. Calcium can only be moved through tillage.

turfsolutions
10-28-2006, 11:06 PM
Be careful, if you have any problems with summer patch in your area raising ph too fast can be a recipe for fungus problems next season. Learned that one the hard way. I would rather add the lime slowly over the next 2 years than all at once unless you are tilling.

muddstopper
10-29-2006, 09:22 AM
Calcium is a very immobile element in the soil profile. A topical application of limestone will not move calcium down into the root zone. I expect that most soil tests and recommendations are based on a core sample of 4" to 6" in depth and therefor will not accurately evaluate the top 1/2" of soil. 1-2 tons per acre, tilled in, is equal to what amount surface applied? 4,000 lbs over 6" equals 333 lbs. over 1/2" Actually, 1/8" is more accurate. Calcium can only be moved through tillage.
Then how do you explain the calcium found in leaf analysis in as little as three days after surface applications with just one rain event?

Calcium is a double charged postive ion and attaches itself readly to any negative ions it can find in the soil. Particularly to Phos. which has a tripple negative charge. The combination forms tri calcium phosphate and results in the P becomeing boundup in the soil. This is another reason lime should be added in lower rates, especialy when using high P starter fertilizers or in soils that already have low P amounts, and it is usually better to apply lime and P in seperate applications several weeks apart. Calcium can also be very mobile in the soil under the right conditions such as soils with low CEC rates or on soils where large amounts of Nitrogen is being applied. Low CEC soils are by nature very porous and will let nutrients flow pretty easily with adequate rain fall or water movement. Nitrogen clings to the calcium and will carry Ca from the soil as the nitrogen leaches out of the soil.