This is why I lowball some "pros"

[jones]

After reading many of these posts I have come to the conclusion that many "Pros" are not properly equipped or of the proper mindset to do smaller residential lots.
I see, in my area, over equipped (z's and big WB's) over staffed (3-4 guys) pull up to a res. and after much fussing about, putting pylons around the truck, unloading z's, and WB's, one guy standing around to blow, trimmer guy with helmit, goggles, AND trimmer guard, finishing one lawn in the time it takes my partner& I to do 3 across the street with 21 LB's and IF I'M FEELING LAZY the 36 hydro. Of coarse they only have one lawn on that street because they can't get the BM's (Big Mowers) into the backyards. Now I'm sure they do some big props 10* faster than we could but if I can cut 3 to there 1 with 2 guys compared to 4 I'm going to be charging less.
If you think a 21 is a TRIM MOWER and you come into my area, prepare to be lowballed by a pro.


No offense to those of you that stay in the wide open spaces where the z's and the big WB's can roam.

[kris]

Yes but I bet that one lawn looks real good and they work safe , pay insurance and taxes.

[oneEXMARKfan]

HA HA HA LMAO!

[jones]

Kris,
I guess you just assumed I don't pay taxes & insurance and I do a lousy job because I can cut those type of lawns more efficiently and at a better price.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Jones, glad to have you around and I hope that you get a lot of use out of this site. Let's tryo not to be quite so confrontational here, alright? This is a place where we come to help out and get ideas, ask questions and get answers, etc. Generally speaking, practicing one-upsmanship here is not taken to very well.

Glad to hear that you're having good profiteering with your low overhead. Hope that you can keep it that way.

God bless.

[AndrewLawn]

kris,don't be a jerk....first of all,jones never said a single thing about not paying taxes or having insurance,why'd you assume that?also,I bet his lawns look great,and IMHO he gave a very legitimate reason to "lowball".

[CSRA Landscaping]

I think we're misrepresenting what lowballing is, here. Lowballing, as I understand it, is coming in and undercutting everyone else. This does a coupla things, one of which is get the lowballer the job. Another thing it does is cause word to spread about what the lowballer is charging, forcing every otehr company in town to lower their prices. Now this may all sound well and good but ..

It will come to the point where the one who started the ball rolling will think 'Gee, it'd sure be nice if I were making more at this.' Shoulda thoughta that.

And .. it will probably cause some LCO's some financial strain, possibly resulting in the laying off of some employees. Now they gotta go elsehwere.

I would rather plan ahead, bid everything based on premium service and deliver what I bid, with a cozy profit margin, than just work to pay the bills.

But again, to each his own.

[jones]

Andy, I could not said it better myself. Thank You.
CSRA, let me state the finacial aspects of this once more.
4 guys, 1 lawn, 25 minutes, $40.
2 guys, 3 lawns, 30 min, $60.
Also as you stated I have less overhead that's good not bad.
These guys would kick my but on bigger props but I don't go near those don't want to 'cause there's too much money to be made using a TRIM MOWER.

[awm]

the problem with your reasoning is that one man with a 52
z can put out so much more work ,and after a while i am to thepoint that if i want to i can eliminate 90 percent of the trim with the mower.after a while you can get to just about any thing a 36 can,
i spent 3 yrs following a kees 36 and i thought right much of it ,still do.but for just plain increased work production its not close to what a good z will put out.this is not to stir cause i loved my walkbehind. it helped me work my way out of crippling arthritus.
later

[CSRA Landscaping]

Must be something to you Canadian fellas. What do they put in your wheaties? Anywho, I think that thar was the first time that you posted them thar figgers, Jones. Thing about it is, though, you're right. The Z's are more suited for wide open cutting. I prefer it that way. However, it doesn't always happen exactly like I want it so if I have to tiptoe around Ms. Betty's yard, that's alright. Thing is, why do you want to put 'em down? Mebbe they wuz tard. Are we out to put everyone else on a lower pedestal? That's a great way to insure that the customers get great prices, at any rate.

[jones]

CSRA,
why are you writing like that all of a sudden. We here Canadjuns dun understand inglish ya now.

[jmartmel]

So Jones you are only charging 20 canadian dollars (13 american) for lawns? what size are these and exactly what area in or around Toronto are you. Cause there is a guy in the paper here who is advertising lawn cutting for 10 bucks and thought it might be you.

[HOMER]

Push on my good man........push on!

If I were you I might try talking to the guy across the street and ask him if he has any of those aggrevating little yards he wants to sub out of just give away! I've said it before and I'll say it again........."There's riches in niches." If your niche is small yards and 21" mowers then advertise it just that way.

Pretty soon you could hire a bunch of college kids over the summer and give them all 21" mowers, you could make a fortune. (where have I heard that one?)

Some people prefer their yards done with a 21" mower. There's a yard on one of my routes that has to have a 1/2 acre frt yard and it is done by an old man with a push mower. It would look better to me if it were done with my 72" but to each his own, apparently the owner doesn't think so.

I shy away from anything that has to be done with a push mower, I gave up a $100.00 a month yard because I had to mow the entire back yard this way. Some people enjoy it, it makes my blood pressure go up I think knowing that I could have been done with another lawn in the time it was taking me to walk that one............got to go man, got to go!:blob3: :blob3:

I'm done now.:)

[kris]

why don't you read my post Andrewlawn and jones... did I say he didn't pay taxes?????...watch who you are calling a jerk

[Guido]

Suit yourself man! Charge what you want, but I will give you one word of advise.

If your making money charging those prices and your happy with the ammount of $$ your bringing home (After you pay your insurance, taxes, licensing, etc) Than good for you.

But, there are only 2 reasons I could have a problem with your prices.

1. If your not making th profit you should be and your living to work.

and 2. Your bringing the whole market value down for all of your fellow LCO's in your area. If you charge $13 for these lawns, word will get around and people will look at someone like myself like I'm crazy when I tell them I have a $25 or $30 minimum for stopping my truck.


The only way prices and profits will rais for this industry is if everyone bumps up on close to he same level. It will be better for everyone if we do.

But, to each his own I guess!

Good Luck!

[geogunn]

my problem with a "push mower" is that my hands don't seem to fit the handle.

GEO

[powerreel]

I never can seem tp find the transmission clutch on those push mower things!

[Fantasy Lawns]

In our area ...... one of the larger outfits has 3 crews which only have 21's on (like 6 of em)....he does all the WM banks in our county with em ....n some of large upper scale trailer parks (yes there is such a thing)...the lots are small but they are +100 units ....it's all Volume !!

it's what the customer wants AND he gets good $$ for it ...but he also has 42 & 60's on his other trailers ....as well as the larger 1400 JD's ....

like Homer said "There's riches in niches." :->

[Nick]

I think Jones used to be Casey. Also I think Eric banned him from the forum with that name because he likes to start ****! Can some one confirm this?

[oneEXMARKfan]

In one post I believe he said he changed his name from casey to jones. Remember Eric (with just cause obviously) having to get on him........so you'd be right Nick, as far as I know........lol

[jmartmel]

Yes it is the same person (casey). I dont have a problem with people using 21" mowers it's when they charge what he says he does(with a partner) $20 canadian = 13.10 american per yard! how does someone pay taxes and split profits with a partner and say they are above board. It's insane to even stop at any yard for that kind of money!

[KirbysLawn]

Yes, Jones & Casey have the same IP address logged. I will state this again, if the only thing you mow are stamp size lawns and getting the job done with a 21" works and you are unable to stripe because of that fine. Why do you insist on complaining about those of us who do mow large lawns and use large mowers ans do stripe? Get over it.

[AndrewLawn]

kris,you never said that he didn't pay taxes,but you certainly implied it...."yeah,but I bet they pay taxes and their lawn looks good"..or something to that effect..not trying to start a war,trust me,kris you're a good guy and all I just thought that his reason to charge less was legit,and it sounded like you were attacking him about it,thats all.Sorry:)

[Toroguy]

Homers "Riches in niches" is dead on! Rural houses can be cut with gang mowers, Inner city lots 21" push mowers are usually the only option. Each location has its challenges, and those who take on those challenges will prosper.

21" mowers are very physically draining, so I needed to find my "niche" and it is larger properties. A WB is very effective and inexpensive for my operation.

Low balling:

Many here have used this term. Is Wal-Mart a "lowballer"? Many of the under the table, uninsured, part-time people have rediculously low prices. But they also fill a needed segment in this arena. Generally maintaining the "lesser" properties, most LCO's shy away from.

In the business world competition is a way of life. Some will beat you away with better pricing, and some will beat you away with superior workmanship. As long as you dont defeat yourself, you and your company will survive.

[jones]

Kirby,
I am not complaining, only trying to indroduce the idea that 21's are more than trim mowers. I think LCO's that try to compete in the small residential market with larger machines and crews get frustrated because they cannot charge a rate most homeowners will find acceptable for grass cutting. I can and do charge a lower rate because my business is geared specifically to this market. My equipment choices are based on getting these types of lawns done fast and well.
In response to the prices I charge I can do most $18 to $20 lawns in 10 to 12 min. unless grass is exceptionally long or wet. We allways have more than one per street, sometimes 7 or 8, and my route is set up so the next jobs have minimal driving time.
My point is THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE HERE and not much competition, and if anyone is having problems finding customers with big props for their z's or big WB you might want to consider this route.
I've got 60 people on a waiting list and turn down customers everyday.

I'm sure many of you don't need these type of props, I'm just
offering a suggestion for those of you who do.

Jmartmel,
Idon't split profits. My "partner" gets paid $20 per hour.

Also spray, hedge trim, spring & fall cleanup and clear snow (Toro 6.5 blowers)many of these props.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Casey Jones, eh? That's a good one. Well, I had thought that you may be the same but for some reason, you had two different locations listed on each name. Being a bit deceitful? Come on, now.

[jones]

CSRA,
Sorry, but after reading so posts dismissing the 21 I really needed to vent.

[lawnman_scott]

Jones, one thing you might not realize is that the company that is doing these yards may be doing so because they have to. Maybe the lawn belongs to a manager of an apt complex that they make $40,000 per year off of. To everyone else, why so worried about lawns you probably wouldnt want anyway? I dont evan own a 21inch mower, and never will. I used to but not anymore. Jones must be real proud that he is able to affect the entire lawn service industry in Ontario with his pricing.

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by jones
CSRA,
Sorry, but after reading so posts dismissing the 21 I really needed to vent.

Try doing it without insulting people. The 21" debate has been here before, it's a hard sell. How or why should I change from a very productive clean cuttingh mower with great balde tip speed and go with a mower that is over 50% less productive, causes me to bag lawns during fast growth, causes grass to clump when wet or thick, and so on... WHY?

Do a search, search for post made by TheLawnRanger, this debate has been really DEBATED!

[jones]

Lawnmanscott,
Some probably are for customers who give them other work but they advertise like hell with flyers every year in the same area I am cutting. They are going after these jobs.
I'm not tryng to affect prices I'm charging a reasonable rate for a prop that size based on an hourly rate I set for myself.
Kirby, I'll drop it. Wasn't trying to insult only generate discussion on what I see as a hugely untapped market.
At least around here.

[jmartmel]

What size are these yards your talking about!!!!! the amount just don't seem right that your charging considering costs of a legal business that you have run for seven years.

[Lawn Wizard]

My whole business plan is set up around a 2 person team with 22" walkbehind mowers. 95% of my customers are small residential so it just doesnt make sense for me to get anything bigger at this point. It takes on average 35 minutes per lawn and the average price per cut is $22. I did the math and it looks good to me!


Also I think with this model it is more difficult for the 2 man crews to justify charging what some of the larger companies charge. I guess my prices tend to be a bit lower ( but not to much!) because I dont have numerouse things to include in the price like multiple employees, a huge equipment maintence budget and the like.

I guess to each his own :)

[jones]

Lawn Wizard,
You can do much much better than 35 min for $22. Once you get going you'll cut that time in half and line up 3, 4 in a row. Get LB Comms they are the best by far for these type of jobs. Keep the faith.

[Lawn Wizard]

I do get more with other services the $22 for 35 minutes is just straight cut, edge, trim. Also right now I am just solo my plan is to expand to the point that 2 people can handle. I got the faith!

[lawrence stone]

You kids with your 21" mowers need to wake up and buy some 32" machines.

Like what real LCO's use. My pic is the Toro/exmark metro 12.5 hp KAW with a OCDC and a jumbo metal Wright mfg bagger with a proslide.

You will double your production.

[jones]

Lawrence, I currently own an Exmark 36 TTHP and a 36 Toro belt. I leave them at home 3 days of the week and go cutting with a herd of 21's. Its faster.
Can I get an OCDC for the 36 as you stated?

[Lawn Wizard]

If I got anything bigger I couldnt get into half of the yard! Lawrence I wish I was a kid again! :)

[lawnman_scott]

What kind of gates do you have that you couldnt fit a 32 through? I have some that a 36 wont go through, but none that a 32 wont get in.

[jones]

Lawnmanscott,
If I could get a 32 floating deck hydro with an OCDC I might try that over a 21. Since we have to side blow most lawns it's easier with a nice light LB comm to keep the clippings out of beds, off walks etc.

[David Gretzmier]

what I can't figure out is how the lawn across the street is going for twice as much and I gather it is of similar size. If you know the price, and know the time, and can do a better job, why don't they hire you jones? If they don't, and yours looks better, why can't you charge more for the ones you are doing? Realistically, it doesn't make sense. the yard across is either worth 20, the ones you are doing worth 40, or someone living in that neighborhood is stupid. dave g

[summitgroundskeeping]

In my neighborhood, I give, neighbor discounts. I knock off around $5. I don't want another LCO in my neighborhood. I think it just looks bad, that's all. And I like my neighbors. And when I do their lawns, I know it makes the whole neighborhood look much better. It's only 6 properties within 2 streets. I admit it, I'm a balla'.

[summitgroundskeeping]

I'm just trying to break the tension in here, you can cut it with a knife.

[KirbysLawn]

I'm not sure it's that tense here.:) Casey or Jones if you will, had stated in another post how bad it looked when we stripe a lawn, I asked him to explain how I should mow and not stripe and no advise was ever given.

I asked in this thread for Jones to please explain the reasoning on why I should consider using a 21" mower for my smaller lawns, again he has yet to explain.

If I mow a smaller lawn with my 48" mower I'm mowing 27" more grass than Jones(> 50% productivity), therefore LW says it takes 35 minutes to do his lawns, so it's taking him twice as long to mow. If the lawns have paths that are smaller than 36" or 48" then I understand the reason for using a 21" mower, who wouldn't? LW, why not get a 36" mower or a Gateway and have one person mow while the other weeds & trims? If blowing clippings into the beds is a problem then just make a OCDC or mulch kit.
You would be doing these lawn in 12-15 minutes!

The lawn photoed below is a lawn I complete in 15 from gate down to gate up using my 48" with a helper, it would take 35 minutes to do with a 21", I get $42 per mow for that lawn. I know it's been said "do the math", I have...

[summitgroundskeeping]

Do u have a Gateway. My dealer only has one in stock and wants me to buy it. Is it good? How well does it do? Is it worth the money? Does that one sode flip up easily? Does it cut evenly? Can't u tell I really want one. Just can't justify buying it yet.

[KirbysLawn]

Nope, I don't have one. I think Accuratelawn has one and said he really liked it. I would consider if I had a bunch of small lawns, only do 5-6 small ones, one I mow the back with a 21" due to gate size.

Ray

[Charles]

I agree with the majority, pushing a mower all day in the heat and humidity is way too draining on the energy. I do big yards and small yards with my 60" lazer and my trim work is very limited due to my getting very close to everything. I can weave in and out of bushes at high speeds.
Why drastically cut others prices when you could have probably gotten the job anyway at a decent price and made more money? I don't know about your customers but it can be time consuming just to get paid from some of these people at each job. They yack, yack, yack.
Every market is different but you will not always be young and feel like pushing a mower.
Everyone on here has different likes and dislikes and opinions on all aspect of the lawn care business. That what makes a forum interesting and a learning experience sometimes. Just happens that the majority of commercial LCOs use riders and venting is not going to change that fact. Jones seems that you are happy with pushing a mower and thats all that matters. Unless you have a deep seated inferority complex going on.... Hmmmm

[brimow]

Heck!! Since your at it.. why not trash the gas mowers and buy 1 reel mower and charge even less! Oh yea... you can cut corners to by not sharpening your blades. Also ...you could sell the trailer(if you even have one) and just cart your stuff around in the wifes station wagon. THAT'LL LOOK PROFESSIONAL

[jeffyr]

I just spent the past 5 minutes reading this continuation of the Casey Jones' last post bashing stripes/big mowers and have come to a conclusion :

I don't care what he mows with.


I am happy with what I have and the way I do it. Push on dude.

The end. :dizzy:

[Stormchaser]

Q from the rookie...what is OCDC? Over Charging Da Customer? Seriously, what is it?

[jeffyr]

Operator Controlled Discharge Control.
It lets the cutter close the discharge shoot so grass doesn't blow all over a bed or walkway, etc.

[jones]

Jeffyr,
I'm not bashing if it works for you great.
I read alot of posts from people complaining they are getting lowballed or can't find enough work. I know many of you running z's and big WB arn't having this problem but for the overstaffed and overequipped guys I see trying to do these props I was just trying to offer some advice on another possible money making venture. Sorry if I offended.
Small res are about volume and speed and no Brimow I couldn't do them faster with a reel mower.

[jeffyr]

You didn't offend and you aren't bashing me at all. As it turns out my largest mower is a 42" that I use when necessary and I do use a 21" ,when necessary. Making the generalization that this size is better than that size without seeing any particular propertyt is rediculous. One person's property may need a 21 while their next door neighbors same size lot could be cut MORE EFFICIENTLY with a 48. You make it such a generalization that it sounds like BS.

The people on this site are mostly business owners. I think they most likely make decisions on productivity and efficiency all day long. Making the decision of which size mower to use is something that should be an easy decision if you know your properties (small in relation to the other decisions a business owner has to make). New operators will of course need advice.

jeffyr

[lawrence stone]

One day a week I go out and mow the small ones. I take two mowers (44" gear drive with a two wheel stand on sulky and a toro 2 stroke 3 speed 21" recycler with bagger)in the back of a full size pu with a ramp gate.

I consider the small ones up to 1/2 acre in turf area.

When mowing residentials from 1/2 acre to two acres I add a 12' trailer with two 52" machines with an extra stand on sulky.

When mowing industrial sites and sports fields over 2 acres I add
the 12' trailer with a 62" and a 52" machine with an extra stand on sulky and a sit down sulky.

[jones]

Jeffyr,
Do you ever wonder why there's no "Wal-mart" of the lawncare business. A company that comes in and wipes out all the independents like the big video store chains did to the smaller stores. I think in this business if you get too big, with too much overhead you will no longer be able to compete because you will have to charge more than most people will be willing to pay . I've seen many companies try to go large scale and fail. Didn't Sears try this? Smaller LCO's make money but do you think there is a limit to the growth your company can achieve? Can you get too big?

Kirby, if you read the stripe post again you'll notice I did mention how not to stripe many times. And no I don't hate stripes.

You think your out....and they drag you back in.

[Eric ELM]

Originally posted by jeffyr
Operator Controlled Discharge Control.
It lets the cutter close the discharge shoot so grass doesn't blow all over a bed or walkway, etc.

You almost had OCDC right. :)

It is Operator Controlled Discharge Chute, which is an apparatus that will close off the chute opening which is controlled by the operator from the seat. This only comes on Dixie Choppers since they hold the patent on it. Here is a picture of one in the closed position below.
http://elmlawnsite.com/images/ocdcfull.jpg

[CSRA Landscaping]

Originally posted by jones
Do you ever wonder why there's no "Wal-mart" of the lawncare business. A company that comes in and wipes out all the independents like the big video store chains did to the smaller stores. I think in this business if you get too big, with too much overhead you will no longer be able to compete because you will have to charge more than most people will be willing to pay . I've seen many companies try to go large scale and fail. Didn't Sears try this? Smaller LCO's make money but do you think there is a limit to the growth your company can achieve? Can you get too big?


I like the profiles done in the Landscape Management mags, of the smal, medium, and large contractors. The small one last month made $350k. ;)

[Scag48]

Originally posted by Jonessmall res are about volume and speed

If that is true, then why don't you buy a 48" mower? I can mow all my lawns that I mow with my 21" with my 44" Groundmaster. No joke. And since you don't stripe, it should be even easier on you. Man, you don't make alot of sense. I mean, you can get any size mower on any size lawn, as long as there aren't any gaps you have to go through (between trees, gates). Do yourself a favor, sell your Exmark and Toro walkbehinds since you claim that LB wb's are the best anyway. If large machines are bad, why do you have them?

[jones]

Scag,
Gates, stairs, ditches, bumpy lawns, getting around cars in driveways, flower beds, trees, swimming pools, swing sets, trampolines, toys, high edged driveways, small islands, keeping grass out of beds.......
Volume means saying yes to the guy next door.
I have the 36's because some props mercifully are suited for them plus they're a hell of alot mor fun.

[Eric ELM]

I mow all of those areas with my 60" diesel. :laugh:

All kidding aside, I did a post on how I mow big lawns with a small gate with my 60" Chopper. Here is the link.
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=10370&highlight=gate

[HOMER]

I mow......I mow......so off to bed I go. If we can't all agree then I guess that makes us............hmmmmmmmm.........HUMAN!

I vote that this one is going nowhere fast and to continue it will just bring about more ill feelings and non-productive information.

Use what ya got
Use what ya like
Just use something

The end result is the grass has been cut and the customer got what he paid for...............right???????


Put it to bed.:o I'll see ya'll sometime tomorrow.

[joshua]

jones, heres one for you, we cut a 2000sq ft prop. with a 52" lazer and 48" w/b takes us about 7 mins never timed it, but after 2 laps with the lazer i do to stripes. love the lawn its a good warm up and we cut it every 5 days. get $15 for it. the math on this one sounds great doesn't it, and it sure does look better with the 2 strips in it, than me taking the 21" push and waisting time trying to cut it with that.
quit wasting your time playing with the little mowers and try a mans mower! :blob3:

[jones]

Joshua,
do you cut the one next door with the 35" gate?

[Scag48]

Jones-What do stairs and ditches, and bumpy lawns have to do with the width of cut? "Oh yeah, I gotta mow around stairs all the time, yeah, they're always in my way." Bumpy lawns? Give me a break! Get a floating deck, that's what they're for. Ditches? I don't know how many ditches are in the middle of your lawns. Just mow those with your 21". You can move those toys out of the way, or do you just mow around them? Cars are a problem. And small islands but mow those with your 21" and the rest of the lawn with a bigger mower. High edged lawns? I kinda know what you're talking about, but that doesn't effect your deck size. Flower beds maybe, if you have a strip between 2 of them that is smaller than your mower. I'm not bashing what mower you use, I'm just trying to make sense out of what you said. It is true that you can use larger mowers on just about any property. I could use a 72" on a 10" square of grass. It would work, but there is no point. Man if I were you, use those 36'ers on all your lawns. You'll be more productive. If they're more fun, go use 'em! If I had a choice, I'd use 36's and 48's on every lawn I mowed. I mean, you can get a 36" anywhere you can get a 21". Think about it, it's only 15 bigger, but than can increase productivity and even for the smallest lawn, no lawn is too small for a 36" or 32".

[jones]

Scag,
we have to cut 2" and side blow most props in growing season. 36 scalps at 2". LB's can place the clippings where you want and move around those lawns faster than my 36 hydro.

Sorry about all the posts but my girlfriend is experiencing technical difficulties.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

hey i can't say much about the way you cut

i do know that if you do it right you can use a big 60" Z mower on those small yards because i have lots of groups of small yards you need 36" to get in the back yard

AND i turn a GOOD profit from them with a 2 man crew!

[LAWNGODFATHER]

YES THERE ARE LAWN TO SMALL FOR A 36 or 32
we just weed eat the 10' x 10' areas instead of waisting time with any kind of mower or you can take 10 min. to pull of you 36" or 32" mower

[lakegastonla]

If you only make 13 bucks a yard and think you are making a profit, then you have NO IDEA what your cost of doing business is. Also, you definately are NOT paying taxes and insurance!! Out of that 13 bucks you would keep roughly 9 dollars. Out of that 9 bucks, you have to pay insurance, gas, vehicle insurance, wear and tear, fluids to consume on the route, any advertising you do(none, I'm sure).....let's hit the subtotal, here...um yep....subtotal says:scrubs like you ruin the industry. I've got a guy like you around here ...advertises ANY yard cut&trimmed for 25 dollars. IGNORANCE IS BLISS!! He uses crapsman equipment, probably has it on a card at 23% interest. When his equipment(and yours) breaks down, he will not have the money to fix it, and will wonder why there is no money if he works all the time. Look at what you charge, don't be a joke, and customers see you for what you are. Your way of doing business will keep you in the low-rent neighborhoods.(i guess someone has to do them):angry:

[jmartmel]

Exactly, I agree with Lakegastona. This is the whole problem I have, not that he uses a 21" mower. It's the price he charges! It doesn't make sense.

[rixtag]

I am with Homer. Just agree to disagree.

Rick

[Eric ELM]

I am also with Homer on this one. The biggest reason all the different mowers are made is, each mower has it's purpose. Use what you have to get the job done.

As far as the topic of this post, there are 2 different catagories. One is a Homeowner and the other is one that mows for profit which should equal PRO. Casey Jones is lowballing Pro's? WOW

I second Homers advice that it's time to put this thread to bed.