(ALMOST) at my wit's end!

[matthew horner]

About 2 weeks ago, I had a hard time starting my mower. Hustler super z with a 25 horse kawasaki.

It appeared flooded.

I worked on that carb/problem for a week and a half. Sometimes it would start, most of the time it would not. I cleaned the carb, worked on it, replaced parts in it, etc etc etc etc etc.

It would not work correctly.

So- I ordered a new carb. A $300 carb, no less. I installed it, it worked one day great, and this morning, no start no start. I removed the breather tube and, guess what, I see gas sitting in there.

Remember, this is a new carb!

ANY IDEAS?????????????????:confused:

[khouse]

does it have spark when it doesn't want to start?

[Uranus]

I worked for a company that had a brand new dixie chopper that would take 15 minutes to start. Half the time it was the last mower into the shop and would hold up everyone while people tried to start it. Even the local dixie guys couldn't figure it out. Very hard starting in the mornings and had problems thoughout the day. Turns out there was not enough juice going to the spark plugs and all the cranking of the engine flooded it out. Starting fluid into the air cleaner worked until it was fixed

[matthew horner]

Yes it does. New plugs too.

[matthew horner]

the spark jumps a quarter inch to ground when I test it. I'm really getting held up with this machine. Plus, I wear the battery out each time.

[khouse]

i had to put a diode in the kill wire on a Ferris 3000 because there was some kind of feedback through it making it very hard to start. it starts everytime now. maybe you should unplug the kill wire and see if it works. i'm not sure on that model which one is the kill wire. restrorob may have a picture of it?

[Restrorob]

Look inside your spark plug boots for rust or corrosion on the connectors, I had a customer complain about the same problem. I was skeptical about replacing the connectors for a fix but the customer insisted so I did. He stopped in a week later and said his problem was solved.
Just something to check, It worked for him. ;)

[Uranus]

You might want to bring it in to get looked at by a dealer mechanic that is certified to work on whatever brand engine you have on it.

[matthew horner]

Kill wire? Hmmm? I'm not famiar with that terminology.
The plug boots and wire are very very clean. I'm getting 12 v everywhere I check too. When cranking, it goes down to about 9 or so.

[khouse]

on a full battery it shouldn't drop below 10.5 this could be that your battery has been discharged. it's possible that your starter has too much amp draw and is robbing voltage to your ignition. just another thing to check.

[Restrorob]

The kill lead is the black wire.


http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63101&stc=1&d=1156563400

[matthew horner]

Thanks Resto Rob. So, I should unplug this and see if it turns then engine over faster, i.e. this may be robbing power?

The starter may be pulling too many amps?

I like ideas! I allready "feel" like I'm going to be able to fix this soon.

Keep them coming!, and I am very appreciative.

[khouse]

it won't crank faster. it just kills the coils. i like taking the harness plug off at the engine and removing the connector at that plug. then plug it back together. this will eliminate anything connected with the kill wire.

[Restrorob]

No, What your doing by un-plugging the black wire is eliminating the possibility of a ground feed back through the unit harness and safety switches. This is only for testing because you won't be able to shut the engine back off with this wire disconnected.

[matthew horner]

Resto Rob,
forgive me, but, per your diagram, is the kill wire (you said it is the black lead) the one you have marked with the red indicator? That looks like the wire to the starter?

Exactly what does this wire (the kill) wire go to?

If I disconnect it and it corrects the problem will it turn over faster?

Thanks again,
Matthew

[khouse]

it's the "B" wire on the switch. It goes to the coils and grounds them out (kills the coils). remove it close to the engine as to eliminate any switches and feedback. this wire in no way will make it crank faster. are you having trouble with the crank speed also?

[matthew horner]

Ok, yes, the b wire, got it, I see it. Well, it does not turn over very fast, but that has always been that way.

[khouse]

did you find the plug that connects the engine to the main harness?

[matthew horner]

Will be out in the shop in a little bit to look at it.

[matthew horner]

It is cold outside.

Ok, I disconnected the black wire "b". No start. If I was not so tired, I'd check for spark.

I'll do that tomorrow. Still a bit confused. Should it start with "b" wire disconnected? Is that just to troubleshoot all of the safety switches?

[khouse]

where did you disconnect the wire at? if you disconnect it at the engine then it bypasses safety switches and ignition switch. if after disconnecting the kill wire only at the engine and the engine runs then you have a issue in the wiring up to and including the ignition switch.

[matthew horner]

I disconected it at the engine. It did not start.

[khouse]

just the one wire or did you unplug them all?

[matthew horner]

Just the one black wire

[khouse]

then that eliminated all possible wiring issues in the kill wire and safety switches. i know you say it's sounds like it flooded but do you have battery voltage at the fuel solenoid? can you feel it click when you cycle the ignition switch on and off? maybe water in the fuel bowl since you said it ran great with the new carb for some time?

[barnard]

Just another idea. Is it choking fully? The clip on my choke linkage broke once and consequently no start. While doing a quick check in the field, I removed the air filter and saw puddled gas . I assumed it was flooded. Crank crank crank ,no start. I choked it by hand and it fired right up.

[Restrorob]

Sorry for the confusing wire diagram, You can only down-load a attachment once and that one was posted for a guy having solenoid problems.

Post the model and spec. numbers off this engine......

[matthew horner]

Thanks,
I'll get that spec and model number asap, I've got to go to an activity with the county right now.

The solenoid is working, I hear it. Even if it was not, the float would stop the fuel I think.

The liquid I see is definitely gas. I can see the choke and it is choked when I pull the choke linkage.

I jumped another battery to it (in effect, I had two batteries hooked up) and it did not help either.

[Rons Rightway Lawncare]

I bet you already checked this, but just to be sure, why not put a NEW fuel filter on it, or remove the one on it now and just run a longer hose to the carb. I have had all kinds of trouble with mowers and gone and looked at everything under the sun only to find a fuel filter that was dirty or soaked with water.

A water soaked fuel filter will appear to be clean, but the paper filtering element will be wet with water and gas has a hard time passing through it.

[chesterlawn]

Do you use a fuel shut off switch when you turn your mower off ?

[matthew horner]

To address the previous questions; The fuel filter is about 2 months old, but I have a new one and I can certaintly put it on. I have never had to use the fuel shut off, but read onl..........

I went out just now and tried to start it. I choked it and it started, sputtered, blew smoke (I presume from having gas in the cylinders?) and ran fine.

I let it run a bit and then turned the fuel shutoff to off so it would run out of gas and NOT FLOOD!

The thing is, this sometimes happens immediately after I shut it off and sometimes after its been sitting.

The factory fuel shutoff is at the right tank, which is about 3 feet from the carb, so even if I shut it off there, there is plenty of gas for the carb to still use left in the hose. My idea is to put a shutoff just before the fuel inlet at the carb. This way, when I'm ready to shut the mower off, I can turn this off, and let it idle a second before shutting it down. That way it will not have fuel with which to flood.

I wonder if that will fix my immediate problem? I still want to get at the root of this.

By the way, the wire I said I disconnected last night (in the dark) is actually purple on this machine.

The engine is an fh721v/vb28623

[Restrorob]

Lets take this in another direction, How many hours are on this engine ? If over 300 have you ever adjusted the valves ? If not you may be surprised at what this may do. With each piston rotated to top dead center compression stroke one at a time check and adjust the valves to 0.003/0.005 both intake and exhaust.

[matthew horner]

An update for everyone.

First, thanks for all of the help, esp. you resto!

It was the starter believe it or not. Or actually, a starter/carb combo. I'm convinced that the carb had some sort of problem, but the starter was worn out. I put a new one on, and the engine turned over SO much faster and I think that may have been the problem, that it was turning over too slow, especially when cold, to start the mower, and was sucking gas up. Also, I cleaned EVERY electrical connection I could find, and that may have helped out tremendously as well.

Thanks again, I'm back to cutting:)

[Restrorob]

Well I'm glad to hear you finally got it going. http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tup.gif

[khouse]

i'm glad you got it going also. i did post in #10 that you may have too much of an amp draw on the starter. good luck and great mowing!

[matthew horner]

Yeah you did. I don't know if it was too much amp draw or what but it was the prob.
Matthew

[YardPro]

cracked head... has happened to ours a few times now...

the problem is that one of the the muffler mounts is on a very thin section of the head. If you hit something with the back of the machine, it can EASIALLY crack the head at the mounting tab. We have been through 3 heads on ours due to guys loading a walkbehind behind the hustler, and the front caster on the wb hitting the rear metal piece that has "hustler" cut out of it...

We are having a welder fabricate a "bumper" bar for ours this winter.....