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View Full Version : IF you had to purchase new skid?????


meets1
10-12-2006, 05:05 PM
I am looking but not sure what to get. I am trading in an older case that has served the purpose for many years. I have a BOBCAT dealer, New Holland dealer, John Deere dealer, Case dealer & a CAT dealer about an hour away. Everyone else is in town.

I am looking at the 60 HP range for a skid with high flow to run attachments. I have ran all these unit without attachments although the other nite I swept a lot with a S205 Bobcat with sweeper - nice machine. Everything has been with the $25 - $30 K range give or take a thing or two.

I want to here the good/bad about these units and why you own or bought what you have. I have no need for a track machine - I would use it maybe 5% of the time.

dozerman21
10-12-2006, 06:17 PM
Oooooo Boooooy......!! Here we go. :weightlifter: You'll get a ton of mixed opinions on this. Since I've been on this website, the skid steer/track loader threads are always the biggest debates. Everyone thinks their machines are the best, and that's fine, because it's their money (most of the time) that's been invested. Just take all the opinions with a grain of salt. If I were you I'd do a search on this. Many points have been made on a lot of different machines that may help. Dealer support is very important to me, so not figuring that into the mix, I'll just give my thoughts strictly on the machine.

My first choice would be the Deere. I have the CT332 and have been very happy with it. For the size you want, a 320 would be a good fit (62 net HP). My second choice would be Case. The 430 would probably be about the same size. We have an 1845C that is as tight as it was when it was new. Go to www.deere.com or www.casece.com and you can compare either machine to most other brands. Very helpful, especially for the specs.

I'll let the other guys chime in for most of the pros and cons of the machines since my Deere is a track loader, but I'll give you a few from my experiences so far..

Deere:

Pros: Very powerful. Has the most push power and hydraulic power than any other skid/track machine that I have ran.

Cab is well designed. The sliding cab door can be up while you're working. Very handy. You also have good visibility in the front and rear. The instrument panel has gauges you can easily see, and the cab is not full of carpet or anything else that you wouldn't want to get wet (except the sound dampening headliner) when you want to wash it out. It's not overdone with plastic, or anything else you don't need. Also, there is a lever inside that you can slide support the lift arms while they're raised, so you don't need to get out and do it. Heat and A/C vents are placed behind your head so it cools and heats quick.

Engine compartment/Body panels. When the cab is raised up, and the engine door is open and the side panels are lifted off, you can access virtually the entire machine. Filters are easy to get to and so are your hydraulic lines. Grease zerks are also easy to get to, and hydraulic lines on the outside are tucked in so they don't snag or get packed with mud, etc...

Cons:

Real fine dust will get in cab in dusty conditions. I plan on putting a weatherstrip where the cab meet the frame that I think will take care of this.

She likes to drink! :drinkup: As with all of the newer, bigger machines I've seen, it goes through fuel. You just have to consider that when pricing jobs.

Case:

Since we own an older machine, I don't know as much about these, but you do get reliability and good power. One big beef I have is they need to change their dinosaur-era cabs. They also have a pull bar, wiper, and washer fluid tank all mounted on the front swinging door. Very poor design.

Good Luck. I would definetly demo several machines for a few days before you buy. Different strokes for different folks!:walking:

Mike33
10-12-2006, 06:58 PM
I would of made it real interesting and threw in what is best to pull it with, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Im a Bobcat owner is it best who knows?
Mike

Green-Pro
10-12-2006, 08:39 PM
I've used Deere, Cat and now own a Bobcat. I didn't care for the Deere, mainly because it seems like every dang thing is so difficult to get to as far as maintenance. The Cat would be my first choice but, $$$$. We rented for the past two years, but finally got tired of that and bought a used Bobcat. I've been real pleased with it so far, and it has done every chore I've needed it for so far and appears to be very easy to get to maintenance items. We bought a 773 model but can see an upgrade to a machine with more HP will be our next step a few more years down the road as we grow. Likely another Bobcat, possibly the 205 model.
Just a pitch for the local Bobcat dealer here, they are a very customer oriented dealer. I bought my machine privately, but they have answered any questions I have had, very helpful, I will definitely be giving them a shot at my business in a few more years.

Hey Mike did ya get your machine back?

ksss
10-12-2006, 08:48 PM
I run CASE machines. Dozerman is right the cabs are not as nice as some of the other machines. They are ergonomic and comfortable at least to me, but there is room for imporvement. The 400 series is better than the XT series was in that regard. I like the size of the 205. I think if Bobcat were to give it some juice it could be a real nice machine. The problem is that it specs very poorly. Poor hyd performance, very poor breakout and not enough hp for a machine of its size. Dimensionally the size is almost the same from 60 to 85 hp. CASE and CAT allow you to spec a 440 or 246 at 66" wide. If you plan on running high flow attachments you'll want the extra hp. The only thing you will give up is the higher hp machines weigh more and of course cost more. As far as which machine is best that is a very relative question. It comes down to what is best for you.

What I like about the CASE machines is the high hp, very heavy duty design. I really like the ride control option which cushions the loader arms for a more smooth ride and material retention. I would suggest demoing a 440. It has 85 hp, and 2200 pound ROC. I believe it out performs anything else in its class. The control system is very nice. It may seem a little touchy until you get used to it, but it is very responsive.

AWJ Services
10-12-2006, 08:59 PM
It really boils down too your needs.

Also what are you looking for in controls and cab size.

The John Deere machine I demoed would not operate with the door up.It was a real pain.

All the skid steers are good.
They all will make you money.

Remeber High flow eats up the power.

If you are only generating 60 engine hp you will generate way less Hyd hp.
Couple that with moving the machine and the rated flow will drop consideralby.

The Deere and New Hollands will lift more weight for there size than the other machines.

The Case seem to be good machines for Grading and dirt moving.

If you want pilot controls then Cat is your machine.

The Bobcat machines seem too have the most do dads in the cab.

What will you be doing with the machine?

meets1
10-12-2006, 09:17 PM
My use with the machine will be:
1. Pushing snow with bucket and be able to run a blower
2. Grading
3. Landscaping - rock, tear out, ect.
4. Sweeper attachment for cleaning up jobs, our parking lot maintaince biz as well
5. Small cement job - driveway/sidewalk tearouts
6. When doing tree work - maybe think of using the graple bucket for easier pick ups.

Alot os uses - so I need to be functionable to run different things if I had the machine to do so. I know the BOBCAT S205 is coming in 2 speed this winter. Dealer told me that and said if this is the machine - wait until then.

I also don't need such a big machine cuz I still have to pull it around with the trailer I have, I need to manuver in tight areas but yet I want the 60ish HP power.

Thanks for now
If had the machine - even use the auger attachment when planting bigger trees - and maybe there grapple to handle the bigger trees.

Controls - I am used to the CASE controls and I like everything being "Hands ON" I am not comfortable with the foot controls.

Also need heat, don't really need AC - take the door off. Want to be able to wash it, serrvice it, and maintain total machine with ease.

AWJ Services
10-12-2006, 09:33 PM
None of those things will need High Flow.

Deere is available with Case controls.
They are quite noisy though and the cabs are small.
I have a Takeuchi and the cabs are huge.I love having the room inside them.

I would recomend trying Pilot controls.
They are very easy on the arms.


The bobcat has Joystick controls but take some getting used too.Also Bobcat charges extra for the hand controls.

I think New Holland only comes with foot controls.

It looks like the only machines too fit your requirments are the Deere,Cat and Case.

Demo them first.Put at least 5 hours on each machine while working before deciding.

ksss
10-12-2006, 09:49 PM
The CASE 420 has a lift capacity of 1750 and hp of 56. These would be very similiar to an older 1845C performance wise only with a turbo charger. I don't know if you can get high flow on this machine. Come to think of it I don't know who offers HF on the smaller machines. It would be something to ask. I would get a machine from each company and see how they perform doing what you for a living. I had HF on several 1840's which had 50 hp and it struggled throwing wet snow. It would do it but it sucked a lot fuel.

AWJ how are you getting along with your TK?

Dirty Water
10-12-2006, 09:57 PM
Since your going to see a lot of pavement with the parking lot sweeping, I'd reccomend you don't consider CTL's.

meets1
10-12-2006, 11:19 PM
HF - reasoning is the dealers I spoke with all said that in order to run a blower or the sweeper or even a small grinder down the road - I would be better off with a bigger machine that offered HF.

To take one skid out of the equaition - that would be the New Holland. I have used it for a few days now - and just didn't like the cab, seating inside, climbing in and out and just wasn't all that impressed. Although about every construction company is running NH - they have to be a good machine.

Dirty Water
10-12-2006, 11:25 PM
New Hollands are durable and simplistic. I had a chance to run a LS170 for a bit.

I hated the controls, very dated. But they do the job. They are tough as hell. The concrete companys out here love them.

AWJ Services
10-13-2006, 12:47 AM
AWJ how are you getting along with your TK?

It has it's flaws but overall I like it.
I really like the pilot controls and the large cab.
It is a hard worker and moves dirt well which is it's primary job.

ksss
10-14-2006, 09:13 PM
The concrete guys use them here to. I don't really understand why but they do. The controls are terrible. They are very middle of the road in every way, but still very popular. It goes to show you don't need a space age cab and pilot controls to be well received. A simple design and durability still sell.

SinjonAssociates
10-15-2006, 09:16 PM
New Holland does have pilot controls available according to their website. I bought a NH LS 185.b Hi-flow with 900 hrs after some initial chatter with the hydraulics, I cured that with new oil and filter. It is a simple design that takes the abuse. I have only used JDeeres and New Hollands and have been very happy with my choice.I do Fix/flips here in Colorado and use it to dig foundations, demo,concrete removal, material handling and landscaping. It suits my needs. The best way to make a decision is to try like models from all the major brands! My personal opinion is that these machines take alot of abuse and the more bells and whistles you have the more you will have to fix down the road. Do you like Ford, Chevy or Dodge each one is different yet the same. Some chose out of brand loyalty some chose what suits their needs the best. Good Luck

George

meets1
10-15-2006, 09:57 PM
Any of you guys buy used? I have seen some nice case's, Deere and Bobcat units around for sale. Everything has around 400 - 1000 hours on it. I bought our last one used and served the purpose great but now it time for the me to get a bigger one to handle our work loads better. Also save alot of money.

dozerman21
10-15-2006, 10:19 PM
You can find some nice used equipment, it just all depends on how it was maintained by the previous owner(s). I would go for the lowest hours possible, even if it means a little more money. 400 hours on a skid steer isn't very much at all. If you're buying from a dealer, they should let you demo it for at least a day. Check for any leaks, oil/fluid usage, and try all the switches or accessories to see it they all work. Also, try to grease all the fitting yourself, so you can see if they will take grease. Try to check as much as you can while you have the machine. It will help you see how well the machine was taken care of. Don't forget that dealers have more wiggle room on used equipment, especially if they've had it for a while.

Good Luck

Green-Pro
10-15-2006, 10:49 PM
Any of you guys buy used? I have seen some nice case's, Deere and Bobcat units around for sale. Everything has around 400 - 1000 hours on it. I bought our last one used and served the purpose great but now it time for the me to get a bigger one to handle our work loads better. Also save alot of money.


I bought our 773 used, had 1300 hours on it. We rented until it got to be to much of a hassle since we were scheduling more and more hardscape work. I agree with dozerman take it out for a day to demo. I've been real pleased with this machine so far and like I said I've used the Deere and Cat machines in addition to Bobcat. I don't know if its correct or not for sure but have been told you can figure the life of a motor by the following formula: diesel 125 hrs x #Hp Gas 100 hrs X #HP. Granted condition and previous maintenance schedule has a lot to do with this but a solid diesel with even 1000 hours @ 46 Hp should hold up another 4750 hrs with proper maintenance. Again I'm not certain on this bit of info but this is how a dealer described shopping for used to me. We don't plan to run our machine near that long but it does give some peace of mind to know its not even close to the end of its usefulness.

We will continue to buy used until we reach a certain $ amount in sales volume. I would rather let someone else take the beating in depreciation and buy a machine used. When our sales volume # is hit will explore other options like buy/lease new. JMO

Fordsuvparts
10-16-2006, 12:01 AM
I would recommend New Holland to any one, the 1999 LX665 turbo we have is the best most reliable machine I have ever seen. Ours now has about 2800 hours and the only expense we have had with it is tires and and exhaust manifold , They are built tough as hell and can take all kinds of abuse. The NH was our companies first equipment purchase and has never let us down since we bought it in 2001. We now have Bobcat but we will be trading in, in about a year and will be looking at the tracked Deere, Cat, Case and New Holland when we make our next purchase. We will stick with a machine that we can get good dealer support from. Just my 2 cents

Power Crater
10-18-2006, 07:04 PM
VANS IMPLEMENT LTD.

3465 320TH ST
HULL, IA, 51239
Phone: 712-439-2641
Fax: 712-439-106

Gehl Products

Power Crater
10-18-2006, 07:05 PM
:weightlifter: VANS IMPLEMENT LTD.

3465 320TH ST
HULL, IA, 51239
Phone: 712-439-2641
Fax: 712-439-106

Gehl Products

meets1
10-18-2006, 11:42 PM
Curious - how do you like your gehl? I know what concrete guy that has 4 of them - 3 wheeled, 1 track.

I guess I have rented one b/f I didn't like there one hand/arm control. Maybe that was just on that unit but my hand/arm was hurten after all day runen that control lever.

VANS gave you a good deal huh - did you trade something in or outright deal??

6'7 330
10-19-2006, 12:28 AM
We have several New Holland's, NH are reliable tough machine's, only minor problem's, busted line etc.We also have Mustang, excellent machines.Everything is easy to get at, well engineered machine.

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