View Full Version : New or Used F-450 or 550

Gravel Rat
10-15-2006, 02:19 AM
As you guys know I have gave up on the hooklift idea but I'am still searching for a F-450 and have been for awhile. It is getting frustrating the trucks that are out there are high kilometerage junk. I'am also looking for a 4x4 which is a rare find.

One of the guys I work with says buy new and finance the truck over 5 years so if I buy a 06-07 F-450 4x4 for 48,000 that doesn't include a dump box.

My current truck is a 95 F-450 it needs work and I'am getting tired of working on old trucks its never ending repairs.

Do you guys think the new trucks are worth buying and which is better lease or bank loan and buy the truck ?

AWJ Services
10-15-2006, 11:33 AM
I also have been in the market for a truck also.
I need a crew cab which it makes it even harder too find a good used one.

Do you guys think the new trucks are worth buying and which is better lease or bank loan and buy the truck ?

It really depends on how you will be able too use the truck for tax purposes.

In the USA I always go for the lowest overall payback price.

10-15-2006, 12:56 PM
Gravel Rat,

You might want to check out www.trucksunlimitedincorp.com

I just purchased a 2000 F-450, 7.3L, 6-speed, 4X4, chasis cab from them this past Monday. I ended up having to go out of state to puchase a truck because they just aren't that easy to find here in the St. Louis, Missouri area.

I've already had a new flat bed installed on the truck and yesterday I went out and purchased a new 105 gallon fuel transfer tank along with a tool box that I'll install on the front of the bed.

Good luck in your search.

10-15-2006, 01:10 PM
I had a 97 ford 4x4 dump and had similar problems. They don't make you money when they are sitting in the shop. I bought a new 04' F-350 diesel 4x4 dump which I financed for 5 yrs. I have a much larger payment but with an increased payload capacity, doubled mileage, zero downtime, and no repair bills we actually keep more omney annually. Always invest based on profitability, if you can get a tax break for that investment that should always be a secondary benefit.

10-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Well on a new 2006 F-150-F-550 truck you get 0% for 60 months, not a bad deal.

10-15-2006, 04:37 PM
GR, throughout this it seems to me your obsession with getting a Ford 450/550 seems to be the purpose of your venture rather than what it is a piece of a overall picture. Personally in your case it is crazy to buy new. Your already taking a substantial risk. Check out the internet and find a IH 4900 4X4 or a good used 550 or 5500. Why take the risk. You will have plenty of things to spend money on. If this works out there is always time to buy a new vehicle. If it doesn't your not going to want to try and sell a new vehicle and your not going to want a big payment after loosing your shirt. The difference between these guys, and you is everyone else already has an established business you don't. You may be going at this wrong.. I would sit down decide what it will take (money) to get of the ground. Make sure you have financing in place. If your borrowing say a 100K than after you get everying else bought, factoring equiment, insurance, advertising and operating capital, etc. That will help tell you what a realistic budget is for a pickup. A budget and your bank will tell you what you can afford. This is why I say your trying to justify a new vehicle out of this. I doubt it is there. You may want to use the one you have. Your margins are going to be razor thin as it is. I think you need to really sit down and think about what this whole thing entails and you'll realize that you have many more things to consider than whether to buy a new 550 if your realistic with yourself.

Gravel Rat
10-15-2006, 06:12 PM
This truck is my daily driver too so when I'am working for the gov't transportation company I work 8 to 16 days straight so I can't have any break downs. I'am the only spare employee they have in the area so if I don't show up to work they are stuck. It can be a little stressfull at times if I have troubles getting to work nobody else in the other dept of the company is certified to do the job. Its not a hard job but you know what gov't regulations are like about people running equipment that moves people. I'am not going to give up the job because its paying for most of the bills and will help with the truck payment.

The truck is going to hopefully give me extra work which I think it will if I start advertising again. The way my work schedules are I start work at 6am and off at 1pm that leaves me with the afternoon to do deliveries. Or when I'am on afternoon shift I have 7am to 2pm to do deliveries. I can do landscaping on the days I don't work for the gov't I can also back to hauling lumber did allot of it hauling 10,000 dollar loads of cedar siding etc. The 2 guys that I haul for keep asking if I can go back to delivering their wood products.

As I meantioned I have been looking for a truck for awhile now I bought the 95 last year to replace the 89 I had. The 95 was good for about a year then things starting going wrong with it :rolleyes: I don't want to invest money into putting a mason dump on it just get rid of it and find something else.

The trucks I found so far are the wrong wheelbase one a 2002 F-550 4x4 in perfect condition with unheard of low kilometerage 48,000kms(29,000 miles) the truck is in mint shape or it looks like it is in the pictures.

Drawback the truck has a 201 wb too long the truck has a automatic but I could live with that. I investigated about shortening the frame found some info in the Ford body builders info its not recomended to shorten the frame to the wheelbase I want the price is good too 35,000 dollars. Found a 2001 F-450 2wd has 201wb 120,000kms (75000 miles) wrong wheelbase the truck has a decent price too :(

One of my requirements is I want a 5 or 6spd manual but 90% of the trucks have automatics. I'am not a fan of automatic transmissions but if the truck has low kilometers then I will make a exception. As for the 4wheeldrive I would like to have it but its not a deal killer. I have been doing without 4wheeldrive for 10 years but having it makes life a little easier.

I found a few 2003s but they are 6.0s I'am not touching those lemonade mobiles. If I think I have headaches now just imagine owning a 03 6.0 PSD that the Ford dealer can't figure out to fix.

So its got me on the idea should I just bite the bullet and buy new and quit fooling around with somebody elses problems. It will be the first new truck I would ever own but might be worth it. I never get anymore than 4 years out of a used truck and usually it ends up costing me money in repairs.

10-15-2006, 08:16 PM
So you're thinking of buying one of these trucks to make your commute to work at your part-time job, at which you don't have a dime invested, more reliable? Then you might find other work for it?

Look, enough of this asking the same question over and over looking for an answer that is the one you want. If you want one of these pieces of **** for your daily driver and have come up with enough reasons to justify it to yourself then just do it and be done with it. Come on man, make a decision already.

Dirty Water
10-15-2006, 09:16 PM

What you want since you need a daily driver is a toyota Prius, it gets 45 MPG!


And, you can run your junk hauling business too, because Toyota offered a little known hook lift option for the prius:


RockSet N' Grade
10-16-2006, 12:13 AM
The guys around here who are making money (that means not just gross, but stuff that sticks to your pockets) who drive truck are the guys who buy a good used 10 wheeler with a tag axle for under 20K. One guy I know, got a ten wheeler for $4,500......it looks like crap, he does the mechanical work himself............BUT, it still pays the going rate of $80 an hour. So would you rather invest $4500 to make $80 an hour or go buy a new fancy rig for $116-160K to make $80 an hour? The math is pretty easy, its just the ego gets in the way of the math......

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 01:57 AM
My commute to work is 30 mins each way about 25kms (16 miles) each way so it doesn't justify me to buy a car to commute to work with. Usually with my trucks I only put on 25,000kms (16,000 miles) at most per year I don't do allot of driving the truck outside of work. It is the way 95% of the people that live in this area because we all live close to amenities.

I use my truck to carry my tools when I'am going out to do other jobs. I will probably go back to falling trees and clearing land I may go back to pulling wrenches, doing construction jobs,placing concrete maybe go back to running hoe. My familly has been in scrap metal salvage for years now the price of scrap is high I will probably get back into that too. I'am also a legal trucking company I can haul anybodies freight I want.

Landscaping is another option if some of these places go through money is no object for the owners if they are paying 1.5 million for a piece of property the rest of it is nothing but pocket change. One of the last jobs I was on total housing project cost was 2.5 million its a summer house they didn't care what it cost just aslong it was done right. The owners very nice people never flaunted that they had money they earned it and they wanted to spend it on a place they can come to and put their feet up and rest.

The rate for F-450-550 sized truck is 50 dollars per hour and if I stick with a truck under 17,000lbs my insurance stays about 1200 a year once I get over 17,000lbs then I need a annual truck inspection etc.

I thought about a tandem and its on my plate, unless the work looks good then I may go for it. With the DOT being so fierce we can't get away with running old dump trucks. It has to be in really good shape so I would expect to pay atleast 25 grand for a good used truck.

I have my eye on a couple they have been sitting at the dealer for awhile they can't be used in the city (Vancouver) they are forsale at because they won't pass emmissions testing. Also the economy in Vancouver is far more busy than it is here so guys are buying new trucks. You can buy a new 9500 Sterling west coast spec'ed for 135,000 all ready to go to haul.

I'am not rushing out to spend 55 grand on a F-450 that will be worn out before its ever paid for. I asked the question to start with are new trucks worth buying.

I'am searching Alberta too lots of good used trucks there good deals but its going to cost me couple grand getting it back here and registered in B.C.

Currently debt free now but I'am looking for different options so I can get away from working with the public.

10-16-2006, 06:21 PM
this debate again? lol

10-16-2006, 08:39 PM
lol, oh guys heres a quote from GR that he posted TODAY,
"In Alberta the market is flooded with trucks so I imagine redhornet will find a good deal. Places like www.camex.ca has good selections of trucks."- Gravel Rat. Now I thought his BIG problem was that he couldn't find any trucks. :dizzy: :laugh: NOT that I want to make GR look like a fool but come on, oh GR if you can back yourself up I'll listen but that totally just killed your story.

10-16-2006, 08:41 PM
lol, oh guys heres a quote from GR that he posted TODAY,
"In Alberta the market is flooded with trucks so I imagine redhornet will find a good deal. Places like www.camex.ca has good selections of trucks."- Gravel Rat.

Now I thought his BIG problem was that he couldn't find any trucks. :dizzy: :laugh:
Oh GR if you can back yourself up I'll listen; but that statement just killed your story.

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 09:23 PM
I hope you know Alberta is another province its 1000kms away or 620 miles from where I'am at. For me to drive to Calgary Alberta and back takes about 5 days. To drive around Alberta looking for trucks I could drive another 1000kms.

10-16-2006, 09:32 PM
Yah but if thats were they're and they're at good prices I would still be interested. We were looking out in Cali @ a 2004 Brush Bandit chipper, we would have shipped it out us. Some dealers will give you a free airline ticket if you come down and buy a truck.

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 11:07 PM
Don't get me wrong I will travel but to ship a vehical from Alberta I'am looking at minimum 2000 dollars. If I fly out rent a car to search dealers it will cost about the same. Once I get the vehical here the truck has to go through a gov't inspection about 500 dollars and any repairs needed to make it pass out laws.

Guys that have brought trucks back here from Alberta really haven't saved any money.

Dirty Water
10-16-2006, 11:45 PM
5 days for 620 miles? I drove 960 miles in two EASY days this spring.

Gravel Rat
10-17-2006, 12:48 AM
A friend of mine who is a truck driver who is from Alberta says you can make it from Vancouver to Calgary in 18 hours of straight driving. He said this time a year will take longer because of the snow and weather going over the rockies. It takes me 1/2 a day just getting to Vancouver. I did a map quest so from my place to the dealer in Alberta is 765 miles approx so its like I figured about 20 hours of driving time if things are perfect.

Its why I said 4-5 days atleast 2 days each way and a day of making the deal and getting temporary insurance. I figure if we took my brothers Dodge his truck would be 300 dollars worth of fuel there and back about 230 dollars for the F-450 or F-550 I drive back. Hotel bills the cheapest is about 100 dollars a night so 400 dollars another 200 dollars for food.

I have calculated what it would cost I found it would be 236 in plane fare for me and my brother I wouldn't want to make the trip myself. I'am not a fan of flying thou don't like planes.

10-17-2006, 01:14 AM
Where in B.C. are you? I left Lillooet this past spring at 1:30pm driving my Dodge p/u and pulling my empty 18' trailer, got caught up in Rogers pass for 3hrs (rock slide) Drove to Calgary, slept (not long mind you), loaded Bobcat and did paperwork, then returned home just before 9:00 pm next evening (32hrs). Now I admit I didn't do any sight seeing, but didn't speed on the journey either. Whole thing cost me under $300.00 not including skidsteer of course. Oh, and I'm 4 1/2hrs out of Vancouver myself and all roads from here are slower back roads for the first hour minimum (depending on direction taken). I guess what I'm saying is if you've got a plan and want to get it done it need not be expensive nor time consuming.
Around here a C.V.I. can be had for $150.00 for a tandem dump, not sure if it's any different for 450/550 though.

Gravel Rat
10-17-2006, 03:39 AM
I'am on the sunshine coast so if I get the first boat off the coast get to the city 7:30 and hit the highway 1.

Finding a truck in Alberta will be the last resort I'am not going to save enough money to justify driving couple thousand kilometers. I know what kind of stuff the trucks need to go through to make them legal in B.C. .

I helped out quite abit at the shop that certifies vehicals from cars to class 8 trucks. Most trucks that were done needed a complete brake job front back and I mean complete it was amazing that these P/U trucks stopped. Steering linkage and steering parts etc usually needed replacing. If the truck come with day time running lights they had to work. Even minor things like battery hold downs had to be in place. What ever factory part on the truck had to be there and work.

The rules are rules especially when the DOT checks your truck see's its been registered out of province they will start checking. Then they check to see who certified the truck then the shop may get investigated.

I forget what the other costs are when it comes time registering the truck as a new registration has to be made etc.

Importing a vehical out of Province can be just as much of a pain in the azz than importing a vehical from the US :mad:

10-17-2006, 04:41 AM
GR, my old man still has his '01 F450 for sale if you absolutely can't find anything. I think he's asking around $20K US funds. 4x4, 75K miles, 7.3 PSD, automatic, 12' flatbed w/ Tommy Lift Gate and 3' tall side boards around the bed (it's basically a trash/recycler setup).

10-17-2006, 11:46 AM
There you go GR, you get the 7.3 , flat bed and 4X4 for under 20k. Perhaps we can put this one to bed now. I'll bet we can even put up a donation thread if it will help get this thing bought and over.:dizzy:

10-17-2006, 12:38 PM
No offense ,but you kind of remind me of a dog i had once! !!!! that chased his tail around in circles.If you went and buy a truck and you brought home one that needed that much work done to get it inspected you need you a<<<<<<<s kick first thing.

I do like you post but you need to give it a break ,at least on this subject.

Also if you want to get into a different occupantion just do it ,if you want to make it your make it.I think most on here started from scratch ,main thing you have to be willing to work at it 24/7 ,if you do you will make it.If you expect to set around and watch someone else do it, you won't .Go for it! what every it might be.Good Luck!!!!!!!!!! be it truck or new job.

10-17-2006, 01:42 PM
That sounds like a real deal to to me! Plus being 4x4 ! I would think your dad wouldn't have much trouble sell that.If someone was interested in it here where i live it would be gone in a minute.

Gravel Rat
10-17-2006, 05:47 PM
Ya I know I'am getting a little bit of a pain on trying to decide what to do.

Here is my problem the job I'am at now I don't make enough money my average income is about 27,000 dollars a year I need something else to do on my time off I need two jobs. I want to buy my own house I'am tired of not having my own place to call my own. I need to boost my annual net take home income by 24,000 dollars a year. At 51,000 dollars a year will buy me a double wide trailer on 1/8th of a acre of land. That is bare bones basic no extras what so-ever.

Right now I'am lucky I'am house sitting if I wasn't I would be paying 900 to 1000 dollars a month for rent. There are people paying 500 dollars a month for a 27' travel trailer in someones back yard :( People here are paying upto 15 grand a year in rent. The people that make less money than I do are paying 70% of their income to rent.

Housing prices here are considered cheap you can get a 1400 sqft house on half acre for 360,000 dollars (317,000 US). Right now if you want a decent building lot that will cost you upto 2 million to build a house thats 150 dollars a square foot. A 2000 square foot house is going to cost you 300,000 not including furniture etc thats to move in stage.

Sad to say if you don't make 20 dollars per hour which is what I make before taxes you will be eating kraft dinner and weiners and have no life.

So I'am trying to find ways of making my own business go so I can do it on the side. Right now I don't have 12 grand a year in rent to worry about so its a good time to start something. You will never ever get ahead in this area working for somebody you need to be self employeed and able to do 100 different things even washing windows.

Just one development completed will be a estimated 7.1 million dollars and thats a conservative estimate. There are few other developments in the works of spending 4 to 5 million dollars.

Either these are pipe dreams or they may go if they go there will be lots of work and I want part of it. If it does go through building trades will be able to ask any price they want. It may even come to a landscaper could charge 100 dollars per hour just to do labour work or mowing lawns. If the contractor shortage gets bad enough a tandem axle dump truck might see 150-200 dollars per hour if people want their land developed. A average sized skid steer may fetch 120 per hour any probably end up paying 200-300 per hour for a 160 to 200 sized machine.

Where the money is coming from is people in the oil business and the baby boomers selling their houses else where for 900,000 to million dollars and moving to rural area's. The people in the oil business have lots of money they have no problems spending couple million on a summer house.

10-17-2006, 06:30 PM
You know, I would have thought we would have sold that F450 by now, it's been on the market for a couple weeks, no calls yet. :confused: We got a good deal on it when we bought it and I think it's priced fairly, especially out here in the PNW where everything is more expensive. It really is a great truck, it's just that our crew foreman decided not to drive a company truck so we gotta get rid of an extra truck even though we paid cash for it.

Gravel Rat
10-17-2006, 07:06 PM
If it wasn't such a pain in the azz to import a vehical to B.C. that is newer than 15 years old I would really consider the truck you have Scag. The rules and regulations are a headache. I talked to people that have brought older vehicals (hot rod guys) across. Then they had a thing on the news weeks ago about CNDs heading south for cheaper prices on vehicals. On average your guys vehical prices are 10-20% cheaper in some cases 30-50% cheaper.

Auto parts are far far less expensive in the US you guys pay 100 dollars for a part we are easily paying 150 dollars more but nothing we can do about it.

To import a truck to here I would have to deal with a broker then it takes a week or two for paper work. Once the truck is here the truck needs a motor vehical inspection then it needs the speedometer and odometer changed to Kilometers, the truck needs day time running lights and if required emmisions system installed.

Too bad it wasn't possible to buy a 2002 truck and change the registration to read 1991 :laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
10-17-2006, 08:36 PM
GR......I've got a buddy (hard to believe) and I have watched him do this a dozen times or more. He's into horses. He finds a town or new development and buys on the outskirts of the town or development for cheap. Boards horses to pay for the ground.....urban sprawl comes to him, and he sells for big bucks and moves.....does it all over again. He still wears jeans, but his bank book is Armani.
Find a couple buddys, put your money together and build a small sized "U-Store-It" little complex.
Buy a fixer upper in downtown and work your guts out and resell it....
Find a mentor who is making the kind of money and living the lifestyle you want to and interview them....ask them how they did it and if they would teach you how to do the same thing......

Dirty Water
10-17-2006, 09:39 PM
Rat, why aren't you putting your CDL to good use and doing some long haul trucking for a company? No expenses, and a good and solid $45-$50 bucks an hour before taxes.

You don't have a family right?

10-17-2006, 09:45 PM
GR......I've got a buddy (hard to believe) ...Buy a fixer upper in downtown and work your guts out and resell it....
Find a mentor who is making the kind of money and living the lifestyle you want to and interview them....ask them how they did it and if they would teach you how to do the same thing......

VERY good advice... I worked a great job for 30 yrs as well as usually having a part-time job (or two) + going to school (or home schooling the young'ns) all those hrs at high wages do not even come close to the simple returns I have got from buying (at a bargain) and selling a few props. The one I'm doing now will equal same return of over 10 yrs of 'saving and scrimping' "on-the-job". (and I have less than $70k invested in it - excluding the $113k bill due for W&S ;) ) If I had it to do over... I'd have me a nice gov job (night shift) like a 'Sub-station operator' for power company' (they are currently in huge demand and pay $80k USD ) then I would drive around and plunk a few bucks into some value props in future area of growth (or view / unique). I prefer 'Commercial' for income, as residential has way too many hassles + tenant rights. so... you buy something that has some extra property attached, and hopefully an apartment for you to live in for free...the commercial tenant pays all costs (triple net), your equity increases while they pay you rent, you write off your improvements, then you sell when right time and price(like now...) AND if you were in US...:usflag: AND it is your primary residence (i.e. apartment with a mailbox...) AND you are hitched... you take $500k tax free in gains EVERY 24 Months !!! (beats working...) so... I always look for that site that has 'future mall / grocery store' potential, put up my tee-pee (and Mailbox)... currently looking, as I have 3 places for sale. Unfortuately for ksss and R&G I'm having to head east to Id, Mt, Ut or Wy, as my WA property taxes just went from $6000/yr to $9,000/yr, too much for me...I live a simple life (drive a $35 VW diesel rabbit pickup...) but my property habit supports and uses my equip and has been very good to me. I have bought lunch for a few guys who I gleaned much info, and I listen intently to the ole-timers (tho they are dropping fast)

Everything is a risk, but reading the book "Dying Broke", about 8 yrs ago significantly changed my attitude. - the 60 second version... You are ALWAYS an independent contractor selling hrs (even if working in a factory punching a clock) Your employer is just buying your time for his profit (that is not a bad thing, but you better be a value to him !) If you can better utilize your time, or get better income for the long haul, then do it. If you are unhappy (for good reason) then make a choice to find and do something different. Earn and save young, (build wealth, not spend on trivial 'things') then spend to zero at end of life (as they say... write your last check to the undertaker, and it should bounce) while you are at all this, consider making a difference in peoples lives, and as you pass through they will look back and say "who was that guy?, he was really great and showed up at just the right time. As always, life is too short, too much to do, just do the right things... (ez'r said than done), just remember when you go to work tomorrow, you are your own boss! :drinkup: (the book recommends that you 'Quit your job', but don't tell anyone -Especially your boss...!), as of now you are an 'independant contractor', and you make the choice as to where you sell your time, and for how much. Don't forget to count ALL the costs (like $1,000 USD / month for medical insurance for us 'south of the border' dudes:confused: ) can you send me some ':canadaflag: ' drugs? they are about 10% what we pay, and I need plenty :sleeping: 'ole man'

RockSet N' Grade
10-17-2006, 10:43 PM
JanB......when I was in Junior College I interviewed 25 millionaires with the same list of questions and then presented it to my classmates. Bottom line: 94% of these folks made their "real money" in real estate in some fashion. There's all sorts of ways to do it.

So, GR, instead of spending 50K on a new depreciating asset (truck), go buy a piece of dirt for 50K...payments will be about the same.

JanB.....Utah dirt is hot still.....I am sensing a newer migration of money to eastern Oregon right now. SoCal has for sale signs everywhere, Arizona prices are dropping with no buyers ( I have people in the Prescott area calling me to sell me their prop's), Idaho is still going, don't go to Montana unless you can make a living elsewhere or look just south of Misoula at Darby, Hamilton, Stevensville......they are popping too......

Real Estate is where I made my real money. GR....I encourage you to find a mentor, read Rich Dad Poor Dad, forget about a new truck and take the plunge while you are young.

Gravel Rat
10-18-2006, 01:55 AM
My mom is a realtor and right now nobody is making any money off of realestate the prices have gotten way too high. The people with million dollar pocket change have disapeared.

There were a few people that got into property flipping but got burned big time. The other thing is you have to live on the property for 2 years or the gov't nails you for big taxes.

For 50 grand that won't even buy you a 1970s mobile home on a rented trailer pad. For 100 grand doesn't even get you in the market your looking minimum 150,000 but usually those lots need a 40-50,000 dollar septic system before it will be buildable.

The prices in B.C. have gotten so out of hand and the low interest rate people are sinking themselves so far into personal debt they will never recover if the interest rate goes up.

One guy I talked to says in Vancouver you will never fully pay for your house unless you plan on living in it for the next 30 years. Actually in Vancouver if you don't have a annual net income of 60,000-100,000 a year forget about buying a place.

In this area people in my age 25-30 will not make enough money to buy house as the cost of living is so high. You need to put 10% of the price of the house down so you say you want to buy a real fixer upper house which usually sells for no less than 230,000 I would have to put down 23 grand. Well I only make 24 grand a year and my job is considered very well paying. The one way of buying a house here is if you are married and both of you work the one spouses wages goes to pay the 2 grand a month house payment. I'am single and I'am not getting married any time soon who needs a wife draining your wallet.

Taxes in this area are pretty high considering we don't have garbage collection, we don't have sewers, no busses,no sidewalks,roads need work. Then our gov't pretty well takes 30% of your wages I make 20 per hour after tax I'am down to 14 per hour.

I won't go long hauling no money in it I talked with guys that have and done long haul. Most guys have gone to regional hauling get paid by the hour top wage is 20 per hour. The guys doing regional work are putting in 12-14 hours a day being 14 hours is the max time behind the wheel in B.C.

Where the money is in growing pot its a good money maker illegal mind you but if your good at it a person can make a extra 10-20 grand :laugh:

10-18-2006, 02:51 AM
Maybe its time move to a better location.

Gravel Rat
10-18-2006, 03:47 AM
Belieive it or not I live in one of the cheaper parts of B.C. :confused:

I could move to the Interior of B.C. its a little cheaper but no work. My uncle works for a company trying to increase employment he says its pretty quiet up there. The main industry logging and sawmills is seeing companys closing up shop and 300 people are put out of work.

Anywhere around the Interior lakes the Albertans are buying up recreational property like its going out of style pushing house prices up to the million dollar mark. To move to Alberta you can find tons of work but no place to live people are living in tents, in their cars etc. Talked with a few Albertans this summer they rent out bedrooms in their houses they said 300 dollars a month for a bedroom. If you do find a place to rent like a apartment its 1500-2000 a month. I was told if the ad for a place to rent is in the news paper for more than a day the place is a dump. Up in Fort Mc Murray another place I was reserching for work rent is almost 3 grand a month.

Any thing farther east of Alberta there is no work Alberta's economy is oil and B.C.s economy is running on realestate hype and Albertans dropping half to couple million for summer houses. Alberta is such a **** hole place to live Albertans are buying up places in BC quicker than you can blink so they have a place to go in the summer. If it wasn't for oil business in Alberta nobody would live there. Its really cold in the winter and in the summer its hotter than a oven with bugs the size of birds.

One of the guys I know said he went back there to pound nails the black flys are so bad you can't see in front of you. It was one of the most horriblest places he ever worked. The Mosquito's are like 747s when they bite you, you know it they suck a pint of blood out of you.

I could move to Vancouver I will never ever afford to buy a house there either. Rent is cheaper thou you can rent a 1 bedroom basement apartment for 650. Usually those basement apartments are not the nicest places to live. The traffic in Vancouver is horrible to get anywhere takes you 4 hours one car accident causes grid lock all over the city. When my brother lived in town his truck was broken into daily they tried stealing his truck a few times. The place he lived in people would break in steal stuff. My familly used to live in Vancouver 30 years ago they moved out to where we are now to get away from the city.

I'am sticking with my gov't job for now I know it will be gauranteed so when the construction industry goes into the toilet and B.C. goes into a recession I will still have a job. A few people are telling me they are seeing the 80s all over again a big boom then all of a sudden it just dies. This time there will be more victims of bankruptsy. With so many people spending 80-90% of their income to house payments they have no savings they are screwed.

The B.C. gov't is sinking B.C. billions of dollars into debt for the rotten winter olympics 2010 this nothing but bad news.

10-18-2006, 08:41 AM
If the economy and housing market is as bad as you say it is, to me it's a no-brainer. I'd head south:usflag: .

10-18-2006, 11:11 AM
mmmmm.... BC does grow some good pot.... I digress... It took mye 8 months to find my F450 and about4 months to sell it. Keep looking for the truck you will find it eventually. In the meantime try to keep up with hte rat race

Gravel Rat
10-18-2006, 04:50 PM
Everybody in the area is working on speculation that this realestate boom is going to keep going. These developers are really putting the money out putting in subdivisions and some of the developers are building condo units on speculation they will sell. They probably will sell but they might be sitting on them for the next 5-10 years. We have already seen developers in the previous years loose everything when the boom went bust.

Do I go with the speculation that this housing boom is going to become a reality. If it does it will be good for landscapers and builders especially for landscapers as the rules in the subdivisions is the landscaping has to be completed in so many months.

I know I probably could make more money running a tandem and do nothing but trucking. Most of the building sites are going to need yards and yards of topsoil etc. If the work flops I'am going to have one h*ll of a time trying to sell a tandem axle dump. Can't use the truck as a daily driver :laugh:

I can make some money with a F-450 sized truck I have a line on a good dump box. Trying to find a decent used truck is driving me :dizzy:

There just isn't much selection on the used F-450 550 market my take on it is people are scared to buy a 6.0 powered truck and they are holding onto older trucks aslong as they can. The trucks that I have found are worse off than my truck.

Its why I asked do I take the chance buy new it may cost me more up front but atleast I can find a truck I want. I could even take a risk and buy a V-10 powered truck. From what I have been told the 6.0 powered trucks get horrible fuel mileage.

At auctions when ever there is a F-450 or F-550 4x4 truck with 7.3 power people are buying them at redicolous prices. The truck doesn't even start and people are paying big dollars for them. The last action I was at a 2000 F-550 4x4 cab and chassis 161wb 6spd I looked it it truck wouldn't run. It sold for 17,000 dollars :confused: got to be nuts the truck looked like it was run hard. The mechanics at the auction did finally get it going but the truck run like a bag of crap.

I will keep searching I may have to buy a 201wb truck and chop the frame to make it shorter. Lots of good shape trucks in that wheelbase but they are too long for landscapers or service trucks. A wheebase like that is meant for a 16' body I want a 11' body.

Once I get back into the landscaping it might be time to search for a good used skid steer. I doubt finding one on tracks cheap is a possibility. One of the guys I went to school with bought a tracked skid its busy on a regular basis. It was a good addition to his mini excavation business. There were people here with rubber tired skids but they can't climb steep driveways like the tracked skid can.

10-18-2006, 07:18 PM
Man Canada really sucks!!! I sure as hell don't think i will ever go there. No trucks to buy. No work. Housing is expensive. 24K a year is good pay. OMG i am so happy i live in the US of A.


10-18-2006, 07:39 PM
Here's a very nice F-550 7.3 Powerstroke...


RockSet N' Grade
10-18-2006, 11:59 PM
Buy a brand new 550.....fill it with DEET (mosquito 747 insect killer) drive to the areas where they are living in tents, sell them all your DEET, take the money, build some rental shanty's and charge them rent

Gravel Rat
10-19-2006, 04:01 AM
Talking to one of the truck drivers today I know he was saying his relatives are buying a house in a suburb of the Lowermainland. They are paying almost 3000 a month house payment. He said basically one spouses annual income is pretty well paying for the house while the other spouse uses his wage for living off of.

Myself with my puny annual wage I have no hope of buying something :cry:

The people that are moving to Alberta to try make good money are suffering pretty good. You won't be living in tents when the weather dips down to -35 celcius (-31 Farenhiet). Where one of the guys I grew up with and went to school with is in Alberta gets so cold you can't go outside for a few minutes and you have severe frost bite. Any exposed skin is instant frozen not for me thanks :laugh:

There is no middle class in B.C. its rich and poor and I'am in the poor class :(

I will keep searching for a truck and yes I look at EBAY but all those trucks in the US are not possible without major headaches. Looking at trucks on EBAY is like looking at a nice naked woman I can look but can touch :canadaflag:

10-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Rat - sorry for the long post, I have some time

Sounds like you are in a rut. I am with KSSS, you need a change of venue.

Paying for a new truck is the easy part. If you can't cover the cost of acquisition without a worry you simply aren't charging enough or working hard enough. This may translate into 'you need to find something else to do part time'.

The argument that most people make AGAINST buying new can be used to justify a new purchase. If you review hourly rates it is the overhead(especially the labor cost) that takes the biggest chunk out. The cost (payments of principal and interest) is a pretty simple calculation as related to your hourly costs. Of course taxes are a little higher and collision insurance is more costly on new items, but even with part time use of 1000 hours per year (that is about 1/2 of a full time job), or 300 days of 3.5 billable hours each you can recoup a lot of money.

What would payments and direct costs be for a new(er) truck? +/- $50,000 truck would run ($1000 payment + 1000 Fuel, insurance, taxes, etc.) $2000 per month (That is $24,000 per year). So far you need to charge $24 per hour for the truck to break even.

What would a used truck save you? I would think you could drop the cost down to $1500 per month. For the sake of argument, lets say you pick something up for $20,000. You'll pay a higher interest rate on a shorter term for used truck money. You could get the numbers down a little bit ($500 payment + $1000 fuel, insurance, taxes, repairs) Not a huge savings overall and you have a lot more down time with this route.

I own plenty of trucks, used and new. I always buy the smaller ones new and look for the bigger ones used. I can afford down time on the big ones because I don't have them scheduled for 100% of the time and can take time to schedule the maintenance and repairs. I try not to buy another truck unless I can afford NOT to run it every day. With the smaller trucks it has become a fact of life that we need to keep spares. They get run hard every day. For my plan, spares on the large trucks are going to take some time to be able to afford without stress, and if I can, the used ones will become spares, when replaced by new ones.

I have come to the conclusion that when you NEED to rely on something buy new, or as close to new as you can. The costs of the used trucks under ideal circumstances appear to increase the profit margin, but unless you can absorb the overhead and lost production you lose in the long run. It sounds to me like you WANT more than you NEED at this point.

A final note, whether buying new or used would be to not to only charge for the truck if you are driving the truck. Start charging for the truck even if it is parked out front, or parked at a supplier waiting to get loaded. AND, charge the same for the truck that costs you less as you would for a new one and you'll be able to make this decision without making 4000 posts!!!!!

10-20-2006, 03:19 PM
...Sounds like you are in a rut. I am with KSSS, you need a change of venue. ...Paying for a new truck is the easy part. If you can't cover the cost of acquisition without a worry you simply aren't charging enough or working hard enough. This may translate into 'you need to find something else to do part time'. .....

agreed... tho I lean more towards 'used' when strapped for capital. often 'very-used' (that can bite you, but set aside $$ for repairs / paint) Something pristine and older does say something about a businessman, as well as something new with high payments (and inevitable scratches)

for Part time work, I like the idea of making a 'trash hauler' / crane truck combo, (especially in your terrain / limited site access) I think you would get alot of work exposure and have latitude of schedule for a crane with your idea of hauling construction refuse., you could have modular bins that you place on a trailer with your crane !, and a dump bed behind the crane too. I recently saw a nice low mileage one one like that for under $10000

lots of crane work out there (shingles, tanks, beams, hot tubs...) and it pays VERY well, and you can limit your mileage, as you will get paid 'trip miles' (km...) and could offset some trash runs :) You could be a very popular guy with the framing contractors!, I hate having to call and schedule a truss company to fit me into their schedule, but... it is 'oh-so-nice' and much safer to have a crane or boom truck set beams and material. This is also an area that will expand (and be controlled...) with growing saftey regs.

Do check into the insurance requirements, and brush up on your trig.

as far as the cost of aquiring real estate... Your mom should help you find a 'distressed buyer' and / or owner finance. Forget a house, get a commercial site that you can 'pre-lease' during feasibility, The lessee will cover your 'qualification 'woes + give you positive cash flow to cover some of your other habits (like eating..., and sleeping)

The big thing for you... seems to be making the decision and commiting to follow through. If you are not sure what you want to do (or have a very detailed business plan (+ one year of $$$) as to how it will pencil (complete with 'Gotcha's)) then bag it for awhile and get a few part-time jobs to learn on someone elses nickel. I really liked my 'variety' of PT jobs when I was a youngn (pre-kids...) Truck driving (800mile route) was still my favorite, as lots of time to think (driving through wyo at night...) I worked out a lot of issues, and dreamed up some great inventions during those 'captive' hours.

It is very ez to get too busy to think clearly (especially as your own boss),

Yesterday I learned quite a bit working a crane job with my neighbor, setting 50,000# concrete sections of 10' dia pipe (vertical well for sewer pump station) We just hit a buried 3' dia tree at 32' and 6 sections deep. This will make a tough Monday, as ground water level is 12', so... we had to dump a bunch of dirt back in to act as a 'stopper', then we will have to dig it out, and figure out what to do with the 3' dia 'stick', that is bridging our walls and won't let our 300,000# 'pipe' sink any further. As I said, good to learn on someone elses nickel....BTW, it is a real challenge to keep it plumb, buried trees don't help much... (reclaimed land from Columbia River dredging) Oh, and of course that is not something that we're getting paid for in the quote...It's a public works job, so 'bite the bullet', and deal with it...

Gravel Rat
10-20-2006, 07:07 PM
I was trying to reply last night after work then the power flickered and the area went out and come back on but the computer clicked off said screw it go to bed it was 1am.

I have been self employeed since highschool so I have been through the head aches of no work etc.

The reason why I want to try with a small truck is I know I can get work for it. The large amount trash hauling is a pain in the azz because of the rules at the landfills. When you have to have everything separated you can't just load a large truck load unless you want to spend time sorting it. Reno and demo jobs can be a pain in the azz for a contractor or home owner. If you doing a complete demo of a house a excavation contractor usually is doing the demo job. The excavation contractor will haul away the wood debris as its easy to load and sort with the excavator. The non wood items are left to guys like me with 1 ton trucks that will hand load and haul away the rest. There isn't many demoing its mostly reno'ing houses as new house construction is expensive at 150.00 a square foot plus all the regulations and permitting stuff you have to go through with a new house. New house permits and engineers reports can set you back a year on building a house.

What contractors hire me for is to haul away the debris they usually call when they have a decent pile outside to come and take it away. If its a mixed bag of crap I will have to make separate trips for the different materials especially used drywall or old duriods. Used drywall if it gets dirty or wet the landfill won't take it now the homeowner is stuck with it can't bury it because thats illegal.

When I had a F-450 dump my first F-450 I had work for it and there was a market for a 2 ton dump service but with the economy then crawling at a snails pace and the truck was too expensive on gas I sold it. I bought a diesel 450 but never did get around to building a dump for it I just did flatbed jobs and hauled trash did that 4 years. Went to work for a excavation contractor for a year then quit because my gov't job got busier and I couldn't give them up they will be a gauranteed job for 30 years if I want it.

Now its time for me to get back into the action I have a chance to get a loan now that I have moved up on the senority list at work and the bank can see I will be a full time employee soon. Now the bank will talk to me now is time to get a loan get my business cooking again if it takes off. I struggled for years because the bank doesn't really want to deal with self-employeed people. Been there many times when they tell you to go suck eggs :mad:

If I start with buying a newer more reliable truck put a dump box on it and see what is out there. If I can make a go of it then I will, my gov't job is supporting me now it will pay for the truck payment and when I start getting work the truck should pay for itself. For now I would be happy if the just got enough work to to pay for the truck payment till spring.

My trucking rate is 50 per hour minimum 1 hr charge my labour rate is 20 per hour labour with tools is 25-30 per hour. My insurance is is about 120 per month its not going to change much with the age of the truck as I'am insured as a trucking company the weight class of the truck is what the insurance is based on. My fuel consumption is all dependant on how far I have to travel I doubt I will be spending more than 500 a month on fuel I currently only spend 350-400 a month now and that was at summer prices.

Almost 99% of my deliveries or hauling its hour driving time. From the time I leave my house go to the gravel pit or to the mill I haul from and to the site takes a hour. I charge a labour charge if I have to load the truck myself or if I have a delay its 20 per hour for the length of the delay.

If the landfill is busy and I have to wait for other people using the landfill to get out of the way the hour meter keeps running. If I'am delayed at the gravel pit which usually happens I will start tacking on time to the trucking. I won't tack on time if I'am chin wagging to the guys at the pit catching up on the lasted happenings :laugh:

So the numbers now

If I go with a truck off the dealers lot which is mainly 2wd F-450 and F-550s which I may have to do unless I want to order a truck.

46,000 2006 F-450 2wd diesel 165wb cab and chassis
1,000 Down payment
10,000 Trade on on old truck
35,000 off the dealers lot before tax

I have a line on a decent used dump body if it doesn't go through I can get a new dump body for 5000

40,000 dollars for truck with new dump body my calculated truck payments will be 853.00 per month for the next 60 months.

Now if I bought a ready to go turn key truck from the dealer I'am looking at 56,000 dollars my payments would be 962.00 for 60 months.

If I sell my current truck privately I could get 12,000-13,000 for it. I don't think I would go through the dealer for financing I will deal with my local bank.

So at the extreme for the truck to pay for itself I would have to work it 20 hours a month keep in mind the truck is taking me to my other job so it still is working its not like the truck is sitting. The truck is driving me to my landscape job or carrying my tools to go do tree removal.

Financing a vehical over 5 years probably isn't the best move to make but its one way of keeping it more reasonable.

A new truck doesn't always mean less headaches the new trucks have problems I know people with the 6.0 PSDs that have had nothing but problems and some people havent. The newer F-450s F-550s have a new unproven front suspension there hasn't been enough years to proven itself.

I would really like to find a low kilometerage 04-05 F-450 and I have been searching for one they still have leaf spring suspension on the front. The 6.0 engine seems to be not too bad in those years the 03s are horrible. By low kilometers I'am looking at 100,000-150,000 (62,000-93,000 miles) they are out there one just has to pop up.

10-20-2006, 09:15 PM
I was about 15 minutes away from coming to Fort McMurray to run dozer for $47/hr till i seen the housing prices and dropped my jaw,half a million to live in a trailer park??? :rolleyes: i nearly died laughing on the phone with a real estate agent till I found out she was serious :confused:

Come east man,screw out west and its over priced living conditions we have a nuclear power plant refit coming up next year for about 2 years of steady work then talks to build a 350 000 barrel a day oil refinery to go along with out 300 000 one we have now,7 billion dollar job i'm hearing plus all the housing and condos built here now just in this city alone,and its half the cost of what it is out your way.

a bit off topic but have you been looking at anything in around the prairies? you'd be out of the oil and gas bubble so the prices won't be so inflated as opposed to your area and its still close enough to drive if needed just a thought :canadaflag:

Gravel Rat
10-21-2006, 03:39 AM
Isn't the prices in Fort McMurray cheap :laugh:

I did internet searches looking at places up there because the work is good so I was looking for places to rent :dizzy:

This summer I got to talk to a guy who was passing through where I work I talked to him for 15 mins. He said don't let the big money to be made fool you he said he is so glad to get back to civilization. He is said he was a gas fitter he got flown into work and flown back out they had a chopper on site at 1000 dollars per hour for medical emergencys. I think he said he was making 18 grand a month but it was 12 hours a day upto 7 days a week.

He says there is insane amount of money up there but the workers have no place to go so they are in the bars drinking and gambling. You had to stay away from the bars or you will easily spend couple grand a night.

One of my school buddies are there he's been there for years he moved there before the boom up there started. He makes good money he is a foreman now.

I will probably stay in B.C. for now we will have to see what happens this housing insanity can't go on for much longer. One of the guys I worked with moved to Saskatchewan can't remember the town but he loves it. He was originally from the Ontario area.

If I knew what was going to happen with our local economy and I could see that the landclearing and developing is going to continue I would really consider buying a decent used tandem axle dump. If you are a owner operator that can do most of the repairs you can make money. I have been itching to get back behind the wheel :canadaflag:

When you think of it I could buy a W-900A Kenworth for 24 grand at the most. A tandem dump does get 79 per hour and when the hauling jobs are available usually trucks work all day so a person can make 600 bucks a day depending on the work could be hauling couple days to a week.

I have been thinking about it through out the day is it really worth spending 40-50 grand on a F-450 or F-550 dump and coming to the conclusion its going to take allot hauling jobs to make it pay. I was looking through the dealers ads and I found a 2007 F-550 4x4 diesel 19.000lb gvw 6spd manual cab and chassis for a nice price of 58,000 dollars :eek:

Who in their right mind would pay 58,000 dollars for a cab and chassis you add a dump body you can bring that up to 66,000 dollars. The 4x4 option on the F-550 is 12,000 dollars extra ?

For 66,000 dollars I could friggin rebuild my current truck with new parts front to back and gold plate the chassis.

10-21-2006, 10:15 AM
If you can get 0 interest on a new one and also get what you want (wheelbase, trans. & etc) I would look hard in that direction. I purchased 2 Ford Powerstroke's, with the rebates and everything at the time I think I got a better Deal than buying used. A 450 or 550 is going to get no better than 10mpg on average.

Gravel Rat
10-21-2006, 05:53 PM
No deals on commercial trucks the best financing I got through my local dealers website was 1.6% no rebates. I also don't beleive in rebates the dealer and mfg want their money for the truck they flash around oh you can save this amount of money what a bunch of B.S. They are still bend over boy your getting it :laugh:

I did a few build and prices on a F-550 4x4 bare bone basic and converted to cnd funds it still comes to 45,000. The diesel option is a extra 2000 dollars over what you guys pay so 47,000 dollars just for a F-550 4x4 XL.

A F-450 4x4 is cheaper so it comes to about 44,000 CND the only frigging difference between the 450 and 550 is the rear axle has 1300lb heavier rating and the springs are 1000lbs heavier the front suspension has the same weight rating.

This is a decision I have been thinking about I'am I really going to make enough profit with a F-450 sized truck doing landscaping in the area. The landscapers I know say they are really busy and can be busier if they wanted to. I have no doubts the landscaping work is going to slow down in the area.

Do I stick with a small truck and stick with landscaping or go big and run with the excavation contractors. My gut instinct keeps say stick with a small truck. I have worked on tandem axle dumps they can be money pits so its a big risk if I bought one of them over a F-450.

To get my current 95 F-450 to work ready
5000 New dumpbox less if I get a used box
600 Fix steering 300 for the steering box and 300 labour and misc parts
3000 Fix transmission 2500 for rebuilt trans and 500 labour and misc parts
300 Change brake pads (150 a set) Labour extra
300 Replace front spring bushings and track bar bushings labour extra
350 Replace cracked window should be done installed at glass shop
9500 dollars to get my truck ready to go

I haven't included the other problems that have popped up the stuff I listed I need to do soon the steering box especially.

If I want to keep my current truck for another 2-3 years I will have to invest another 5000 in parts and labour into it.

Do I invest the time and effort into putting a dump body onto the truck I will NEVER recover my costs if I try sell it. If I did build my current truck run it for 2 years and took the dump body off I still wouldn't get much for a cab and chassis.

Parts are not cheap in B.C. it can cost you allot of money to repair a old truck so if I'am constantly replacing parts that gets expensive too. I know quite a few people repairing dead horses the money spent boggles your mind.

I'am I better off putting 5000 dollars worth of repairs into old truck or have 5000 dollars worth of payments. If I dump 5000 repairs into my current truck it will make it go for another 2 years. Keep in mind my current truck will need new tires next year at the very least so theres another 1200 dollars. You get all those nickle and dime stuff happening so it ends up 50-100 dollars there another 100 dollars there that all adds up.

With a estimated price of of 900 per month truck payment if I have to dump 6000 in repairs to my current truck that would pay for 6.5 months worth of new truck payments.

Dirty Water
10-21-2006, 06:33 PM
Rat, you do realize that you can landscape out of the back of any pickup right?

10-21-2006, 07:48 PM
Gravel Rat,
I am in the Fix-n-Flip business in Colorado which covers all areas of constuction from excavating to trash hauling to landscaping. I use my 02 Ford 250 7.3l with a Big Tex 14gd goosneck dumptrailer. The trailer will haul a 9550Lb legal payload( 7'W*14'L*3'H). Next to my skidsteer, which drives up into it with the pullout ramps, it is the best purchase that I have made for my business. I can park the trailer and use my truck for everyday driving, it moves around town faster that the large trucks and has greater flexability in uses. I paid $9,500.00 +tax for it. Good luck.

Gravel Rat
10-21-2006, 08:23 PM
Almost 90% of the places I go you would never get a trailer into the driveways are long and narrow goat trails. I would need minimum a deck over to even have enough clearance. A trailer would be okay if I left it on a shoulder of the road like a equipment trailer but no way I'am going to get a dump trailer in.

One way of putting any delivery companies from the city won't go down our residential driveways they are too scared of them. I have been down some of the worst and trust me I know where I could take a trailer h*ll half the places I'am taking a 2wd where a 4wheeldrive shouldn't go. Its 14 years of trucking in the area that has taught me where and where not to go.

Its just part of living in a rural area its no flat no building site is easy to work on and the people like it that way. Some places I have gone your driving 3-4 miles into the bush. Some of the places you go in you have no choice no place to turn around most of the time the road in is too steep to back up the tires just spin.

As for me trying to do landscaping with a P/U isn't going to work I need a truck that will deliver materials. If I'am doing a job I need to beable to haul the material I need no excavation contractor is going to take one of their tandems off of a job to deliver 6 yards of topsoil.

10-21-2006, 08:45 PM
So then stop complaining and buy something already!?! Its seems to me that you know what you want but just keep bringing this subjec back up. Next time you make a thread about what truck you want I want to see it in the picture forum with the truck you just purchased. :laugh:

10-21-2006, 09:15 PM

OK GR, here is a couple of heavy Ford pickups a 550, 450 and several 350's on a RB sale in Alberta. Huge two day sale. Go buy one (please).:cry:

Dirty Water
10-22-2006, 02:22 PM
If I'am doing a job I need to beable to haul the material I need no excavation contractor is going to take one of their tandems off of a job to deliver 6 yards of topsoil.

I find this hard to believe. I can call here and get 6 yards of topsoil delivered within 30 minutes from 3 different sources, and I'm in a town of 5000.

Gravel Rat
10-22-2006, 04:01 PM
The nearest topsoil supplier for us is 40-50 mins away and depending how busy their truck is the other topsoil supplier is 1.5 hours away. The whole area has about 20,000 full time residents. In this are there is only one single axle 5 ton dump and he doesn't have time to go deliver a load of soil. One of the guys with a tandem will deliver but it is 80 per hour and will charge 2 hours to go to the closest supplier. Most places the homeowner doesn't want a heavy tandem axle dump in their driveway as 99% of the time the truck does some damage.

Most of the places that have been here for 30 years have a narrow driveway the bushes and trees have grown in. So when you have a tandem go into their driveway it the box on the truck grabs the branches and snaps them off. If the truck has troubles getting back out the tires rut up the road pretty good. Then there are the driveways a tandem can't even get down some of them you need to have a 4x4 P/U to pull the truck back out.

When I had my 88 F-450 dump I was getting delivery jobs with it the building contractors liked being able to have someone to come and deliver them 2 yards of material.

I was pricing trucks out again online I found a few more F-550 4x4s looking at 55,000-58,000 for a XL diesel. That just doesn't make sense for me to spend that kind of money so keep searching for a decent used one. For me to spend 62,000 I could buy a tandem axle or a excavator for that kind of money.

As for buying a truck from Richies I don't even have to leave my computer I can bid online I just have to set up with Richies through Dads auction account :D

Dirty Water
10-22-2006, 05:59 PM
Well then Rat, theres a market, jump on it.

Lease a piece of land, and start trucking in various grades of topsoil and stone.

Seems like your area could use a local dirt/rock yard.

RockSet N' Grade
10-22-2006, 06:32 PM
Just an addition to DirtyWater's idea.....

Lease a piece of land with the option to buy. Set up a rock and soil yard and you have the best of all worlds.

Please don't post why it "can't be done".....think of all the positives and go for it.......do something. Put your energy to work and you will do great!

Travel'n Trees
10-23-2006, 12:37 AM
let me guess gravel the 95 a powerstroke, breaking down, the newer ones are less reliable, been there done this twice, check if factory warranty will allow you to haul what you need to haul, but remeber FORD is not a honest company they renig alot on their deals, unless government steps in. We are doing the rock and soil and tree and hardscape location as soon as I sell the FORD.

Gravel Rat
10-23-2006, 02:34 AM
No problems about getting sand or gravel there is a gravel pit in the area but topsoil is a problem. What the topsoil suppliers do here is have it trucked from Vancouver they will bring it up in truck and transfer loads they can get 30 yards brought in. Locally produced topsoil is dredged from the swamps or if there is a area where there is topsoil its screened.

Last year I worked on a project where we screened thousands of yards of topsoil it was pretty heavy soil really needs to be mixed with sand. It did cost the project owners 40,000 dollars or more for us to screen the soil.

The locally produced soil is okay for top dressing lawns but is a little too sour for growing vegitables or flower gardens.

For local soil it usually sells for 16-20 per yard depending on what has been done the garden mix is up to 40 dollars a yard depending on quality of soil.

As for setting up a landscape depot its been tried here one of the local companies owns a open flat property they set up the different bins. Never did work out they lost money. The cost of trucking and moving the material around made it not profitable.

When the topsoil is trucked here from Vancouver its a easy 1600 dollars just for trucking but you are getting 30 yards of topsoil.

Keep in mind where I live you need to ride a ferry to get here so you just can't go and drive to Vancouver. To make a trip to Vancouver and back is a 6-8 hour trip.

For specialty stone we have a local company that we can order through for custom types of stone for doing dry stacked walls etc. It gets trucked from Vancouver on pallets. One job I was on they must have used 20 grand of stone.

There is no problem with getting stuff here just costs allot in trucking. With some of the new developements going in south of where I'am they might have to bring topsoil here by the barge load. A barge load hauls about 3000 tons thats about 4000 yards of topsoil.

For landscapers in this area we have about 4 they are small operations usually 2-3 people. We have 4 stone masons that do stone walls and other types of stone work. The one landscaper I work with is the only landscaper with a 1 ton dump and he is the only one that does sod jobs. With this being a rural area quite a few people do their own landscaping in their back yards.

Most of them need materials delivered most of them use their P/U trucks but that takes work shoveling out the soil. Also the gravel pits usually don't like loading P/U trucks the topsoil supplier south of here will load a P/U truck but thats a long run carrying a yard of material. Every spring you see Ford Ranger to F-150 sized trucks running around with the back bumper dragging on the ground. Then there are the SUV crowd with the single axle utility trailers that are grossly overloaded.

01-19-2007, 01:47 PM
I haven't looked at this post, so you've probably changed your mind another 100x, but this is the truck we just set up with a Stellar Hook lift.

01-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Dodge is supposedly releasing there
4500/5500 C&C trucks sometime this year

hard to beat a Cummins

01-19-2007, 03:53 PM
it seems kind of crazy to be buying a truck that size without the daily need for it. i would look for other ways to get around that size truck. maybe along the lines of a 1 ton truck w/ flatbed. they are much more plentyful. when you need to carry more weight use a trailer. get by with the minimum at first then let the bussiness buy the better equipment when it is justified. it may not ne the easy way but if you want it you can make it work. that is just one option.

01-19-2007, 03:57 PM
sorry guys didn't realize this is an old post. sometimes better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Gravel Rat
01-19-2007, 04:05 PM
The talk about rolloff got my idea going again when Mini Bins was asking about it in the truck forum. He got a quote for 23,000 dollars CND for a 12,000lb hooklift system which is allot of money that doesn't even include bins. I know I could build a conventional hoist cheaper than that. Its building the bins is allot of work.

A F-450 or F-550 cab and chassis diesel alone is 49,000 dollars CND then if you do buy a hooklift for 23,000 there is 72,000 then figure in another 3000 grand a bin you have 4 bins to start with theres 12,000 so total investment of 84,000.

I'am looking at a newer F-450 thou and put a dumping flatdeck on it I have a brandnew 8 ton hoist sitting in my basement that I bought.

With the flatdeck I will make it a winch deck with a fixed roll tail so I can winch a box on and off dad has been running trucks with a winch deck for years. He has a 11' long box that he could pull onto the deck of the truck loaded full of debris.

His deck never dumped so he had a roller under the box so when it came to unloading the box he backed up tapped the brakes the loaded box rolled back and the end dropped to the ground the load slid out. He winched the box back on and off he went.

I do think I will try go back to hauling general freight a F-450 sized truck gets 50 dollars per hour. And I will go to hauling lumber again plus doing sand gravel and topsoil delivery. There is allot of landscape work now it never was as busy as it is now.

On edit we really can't get away with 1 ton trucks anymore its not worth it if you can't haul 7000-8000lbs why bother especailly when your doing sand and gravel delivery. A regular 1 ton is only good for 4000lbs I don't even know why regular 1 ton cab and chassis trucks are even sold anymore. Ever since I went to a 15,000lb gvw truck I won't go back to a 1 ton especially a older 1 ton with drum brakes on the back your better off putting your foot out the door and using your shoe to try slow the truck down. I have been there done that with 1 tons running overloaded all it takes is one accident and it puts you out of business. I use a 15,000lb gvw truck as a daily driver I would rather drive it than a car.

01-19-2007, 05:52 PM
"There is allot of landscape work now it never was as busy as it is now."

I taught everything came to a hault?

01-19-2007, 06:49 PM
"There is allot of landscape work now it never was as busy as it is now."

I taught everything came to a hault?

That's what I thought, too....

Gravel Rat
01-19-2007, 08:14 PM
Construction and excavating slowed right down but landscaping never really stops there is always lawn maintenance and clean up work. I could be busy doing weed pulling and spring clean up but I choose not to I'am not a green thumb. I have done enough of that spending hours on hands and knees pulling weeds from gardens I also gave up mowing lawns years ago.

The two things got to happen here the first one is the prices of property and housing come down to a cheaper price so normal people can afford it not many people can afford to pay 400,000 dollars for a house or build a house.

The second thing that has to happen is the people that have the money to spend a million dollars to start comming back to the area then the work will start again. If you don't have atleast 500,000 in the bank to play with your not going to beable to build a average house.

Sad part about the people with money moving in is they push the lower income earners right out. It is getting to now if you don't make 50-60,000 a year your a low income person well I'am well below that mark.

The spit between the haves and have nots is getting farther apart. After this area is fully developed (10 years) the average age living here will be 60-65 and the cost of a house will be 500,000 for a cheap one and couple million for a decent one. Right now a cabin on one of the popular lakes that has no road access are selling for 750,000-800,000 dollars people with money are buying them up for summer cabins.

I can stay here and work in the construction industry build the the houses for the rich after 10 years is over I doubt I will own a house here don't make enough money too buy one.

Who knows what is going to happen after the 2010 Olympics which is driving the economy. Things might just turn sour faster than a jug of milk.

01-19-2007, 08:41 PM
Gravel Rat- Are their any kind of migrant workers up by you?

Gravel Rat
01-19-2007, 09:16 PM
No migrant as there is no places for outside workers or contractors to stay there really isn't any cheap accomodations and no camp grounds with any amenities to park a trailer. One developer bought up the only motel in the area for his own crew to stay in to build the 600 to million dollar houses in their development.

The places where the tourists used to stay are gone aswell so this community is taking a hit with the tourism too. Pretty well if you want to try live and work here you pay the 700-800 in rent.

01-19-2007, 10:47 PM
Hey Guys I thought I would jump in here and say I finally took the leap and bought a truck today. Thanks to many of you, your replies and previous posts. I had read archived posts going back months before I ever joined or posted my Question. Special thanks to PAPONTE for getting back to me so quickly on my private message.

I have looked at every possible combination of trucks from something I could drive daily to tandems and finally settled in the middle on a 26k GVW truck. Knowing that I will need something bigger soon, but it would do the job for today. I looked at the SNG, roll-offs, hooklifts than mount in pick-up bed and large scale hooks/roll-offs. In the end I think I made the right choice, I live in Western Canada and bought in Pennsylvania at www.royaltruckequip.com as Gravelrat knows finding good low k trucks around here is tough,expensive and limited supply. I am having the truck shipped by www.uship.com which is the e-bay of shipping, you put in a bid and shippers bid on your post! I had the truck checked out and figured I would save the $1000 on airfare and hotels and buy it over the phone...I have never spent so much without seeing it but I did some homework, your help and good dealer reputation hopefully = a good deal. Oh! Its a 97 International(DT466), 25,500GVW with a Amplirol AL90s hooklift and one 12yd container. I am having more containers made than nest one inside the other and have the rails and anchor for traditional roll-off truck in case I want to go bigger. I am having the truck wrapped by one of those vehicle graphic companies www.topwraps.com the graphic is really great and I will share it with you when it's complete. I will also follow up with you as I try to break into the Bin business.
Gravelrat i will find you the listing for a hooklift dealer in North Dakota that has a pre 06 f-450 with a small hooklift on it. This might be a good way to get into both.

01-19-2007, 10:56 PM
here is the 2000 7.3 with a 12,500 near new hook and a tarp sys. http://www.northlandtrucksales.com/inventory.htm

and if you go a little bigger in Washington theres a 2001 F550 7.3 19,500GVW c&C for 15k with a 120CA That's at www.farwestequipment.com

Gravel Rat
01-19-2007, 11:12 PM
So you bought a complete truck ?

I thought about buying a truck over the phone there are many in Alberta I have been looking at but never sure about buying over the phone.

Keep us posted on how it goes getting the truck here.

01-24-2007, 08:59 PM
Hi Gravel Rat,

I may have the truck you are looking for. Not sure you are still in the market for it but sounds like I may be able to help.

2000 f450 15000gvw 4wd 3-5 dump, 5 speed auto 7.8l turbo desiel, 53,000 miles, 9' fisher HD plow. Truck is mostly used for general maitenance work, lawn care, and mulch delivery. Also has leaf box for sucker attachment, can hold up to 12 yards of leaves for fall clean up. Low miles for this truck and runs great. Truck has plow and is used for plowing local streets so mostly light duty plowing, no driveway of parking lots. Truck is in good shape, everything works fine. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks

Gravel Rat
01-24-2007, 09:18 PM
I'am waiting to see how much BS Mini Bin goes through getting that International to B.C. . Importing vehicals to Canada from the US can be painfull I talked it over with guys I know that have brought vehicals from the US. The vehical has to be 15 years old to bring it accross without major hassels anything newer your jumping through the hoops. There is a risk that you will loose the truck if your paper work isn't right.

Now the US has the new law about having a passport to get across the border. I don't have a passport and the wait for a passport is 2 months.

01-24-2007, 10:10 PM
Are you going to get that much better of a deal in Canada? Why not spend that extra time and money and work your bank for a better deal, even if the cost is more you may save it on interest. The Canada thing looks like a tough way to go.

Looking to get $18,0000 for the 450. Can send you photo's if you want. Let me know


Gravel Rat
01-24-2007, 10:23 PM
I have been finding better deals in eastern canada its getting the truck back to B.C. I don't want to drive it back so trucking it would be the best way I would be looking at a good chunk of money.

01-24-2007, 10:46 PM
Would think all of that work is going to cost you thousands of dollars, WOW they must be giving those trucks away for nothing up there. Not sure how you have that kind of time to wait around for used truck. Must not have that much work for it, if you have to go through all that trouble. How much could you be making if you had the truck right now? I would guess more than if you did't have it unless you don't have any work which means you don't need it anyway. Either way I don't understand why you need to look over the boarder and go through such a process just for a truck. You may want to ask yourself, how much it cost to do it, and more importantly, how much it will cost NOT to do it. Good luck with that.

Shadetree Ltd
01-24-2007, 11:24 PM
Gravel Rat,

Do your homework, bringing vehicles over the line can be pretty easy. My neighbor saved $9000 cdn on a brand new Toyota Sienna mini van. It was brand new at a dealer and it cost him less than $500 for paperwork and inspections. He did it by himself with no outside broker.
You only need a passport to enter the US by air, not land or sea. You can drive down to Seattle and fly inside the US but you cant enter the US by air without a passport and that is for everybody including Americans.
A friend has the ampliroll system with over 15 bins, flatdecks, and portable storage containers.

Gravel Rat
01-24-2007, 11:33 PM
I did build and prices on the F-450s and F-550s in the US. I was talking with a american friend thismorning he said truck prices are not cheap he was saying some vehicals are and some are not.

I was looking at some trucks in Ontario on the net last night they were cheaper than here. Its prolly a easier task getting a truck from manitoba or Ontario than somewhere in the US.

01-24-2007, 11:50 PM
I will keep you posted as things progress. The truck hasn't left PA yet but the customs thing seems to be no big deal. You have do check the list of "exclusions" , be sure that more than 60% of the value of the vehicle is manufactured in the US and hire a customs broker. Get the vehicle inspected and ins once it's over the border. The broker will take $250 customs will take another $250 then you pay the tax... I have compared it to buying new and when you take the new medium duty truck warranties apply them to our landscape millage minus some depreciation minus the additional interest it doesn't't work out the used seems to be a better way to go. The biggest cost in the whole equation is the time I have spent debating it! Ever since I made my purchase last week I have been really kicking ass with the rest of my business. I feels good to move on and start doing the really hard part which is putting the rest of the pieces together. Like finally putting a deposit on my bins which won't be ready until March, which the real killer is to think of the missed opportunities between now & then> so even though we will be competing in the same market I say jump-in!
PS I went to the landscaping Expo today at BC Place and It wasn't worth the $15 to park and go in, it was just a big skidsteer and Mini-ex sales floor.

Gravel Rat
01-25-2007, 12:28 AM
I seen it was raining inside of B.C. place on the news I guess they better get out the duct tape to patch up the holes.

From the news it looked like it was salesmen trying to sell equipment I seen Brandt tractor had a thing set up and I assume that was Surfwood supply with the bobcat equipment.

01-25-2007, 12:34 AM
Actually if you were there to buy minis or skid equipment all the dealers reps were there, and might have been some good deals to be had.

Shadetree Ltd
01-25-2007, 01:10 AM
No deals per say at the expo, hopefully today was busier than yesterday. Almost all makes were represented. Finning aka Cat salesman claims that any of his skids were comparable in price to the other brands, I look forward to seeing his quote. The salesman I deal with at Brandt has given me incredible service and support for my SK650. So much that I am heavily leaning towards a new JD skid in the spring over the others. Minibin, I assume your bins are coming from Fort? Or Sumas?

Gravel Rat
01-25-2007, 01:31 AM
I'am surprised Finnings even had a booth there now that B.C. doesn't make enough sales for them. Brandt tractor is a good dealer to deal with same with Terra Tech atleast they have customer service reps and mechanics that care about the customer.

Did Avenue Equipment have a booth there promoting Kubota ?

Shadetree Ltd
01-25-2007, 01:39 AM
Avenue had the Kubota fleet, Terratech had their Komatsu fleet. Pretty much everyone had representation, the only dealer I deal with not present was Bobcat Country but Surfwood was their flying the Bobcat flag. Actually Rollins wasn't there with Takeuchi. The Brandt salesman helped a friend out at 3:00am in the middle of one of the large snow storms with his CT332. I had a problem with stripped bolt on a Friday afternoon and he picked it up at the site, fixed it and returned it to me in less than an hour.

01-25-2007, 03:12 AM
Shadetree> I decided to go with Wasteline Containers. Although I might buy a couple in the short-term From SCS on vancouver island since they seem to carry some ready made inventory. We'll see> I will be winging it for next few months.

01-25-2007, 03:20 AM
Shadetree>how do you like the sk650 I have never tried these mini skids I spoke with Jay from Brandt today and certainly liked the pilot controls more than the bobcat. It's not something I have the need for but think they have there place, I have to do alot of fence posts this year on my sloaped yard and I won't get any skidsteer through the entrances to the property.

Gravel Rat
01-26-2007, 03:11 AM
The Brandt tractor mechanic that works in this area got a fancy new F-550 4x4 service truck seen him today nice looking truck prolly cost allot :laugh:

Mini bin any good fab shop can build you some hooklift bins you can even buy premade hooklift frames that have the sills and A frame with the lifting ring. Then you put any type of body on the sills. You might want to look into making a portable toilet body.

01-26-2007, 04:03 AM
I'm telling you man, buy my F450. Perfect setup for what you're doing. 1,000 pound lift gate, tall sides, great truck. I'm only about 3 hours from the Canadian border. $20K takes it.

Gravel Rat
01-26-2007, 05:42 PM
I know you have the truck I'am trying to see if I can swing something a little newer I would like to get a 2004 that way the truck is only 3 years old.

01-27-2007, 01:33 AM
And deal with the 6.0? Are you CRAZY?! The 7.3 will give you 200K without a rebuild. Truck only has 80K on it. Forget the year, buy something with a solid motor in it.

Gravel Rat
01-27-2007, 03:50 AM
I found a 1997 F-450 forsale I know its a OBS truck but from the pictures its in mint shape its got a 11 foot mason dump with fold down sides the truck is PSD powered 5spd and its got 110,000kms ( 68,000 miles) on it but the price is a little high at 25 grand but then again thats a rarity to find a OBS Ford like that.

I do want a "Superduty" body style truck because they have many benefits over a OBS Ford F-450 like bigger brakes heavier frame the 19.5 tires carry a load better etc.

I don't like the 6.0s either but when it comes to financing a truck most places only do it with trucks at a certain age. Hell I may consider a V-10 powered truck with the price of gas being cheaper than diesel and parts are cheaper.

01-27-2007, 10:06 AM
The truck need to be at least up to a 1999 ,that is when they went back to the ridged straight axile front end, and got a way from the twin i beam, which had a lot of wear problems and up keep.

01-27-2007, 11:04 AM
I had an older twin I beam Ford. That thing sucked. I was constantly dumping money into it.

Gravel- I would stay away from that 6.0. They've had a ton of problems, and the 7.3 was a reliable engine. By the way, that Ford V10 is an underpowered gas hog.

The truck Scag is selling is a better deal than the other one you're looking at. A '97OBS with 68K miles for 25K, compared to an '01NBS with 80K miles for 20K? I'd go with Scag's, at least over that particular truck.

Gravel Rat
01-27-2007, 02:00 PM
I know Scag has the truck with our conversion rate the truck would cost me 23,500 dollars before taxes. With taxes 25,145 then I have duty fees on top of that which I don't know what they are. Once I get the truck here to Canada I can't drive it till it goes through inspection and registered the truck 200-300 dollars. Then with US trucks I have to change the spedometer assembly so rip apart the dash to change everything. I don't know if you require day time running lights in the US but they are required here so you need to buy the kit to make day time running lights. The exhaust system has to have the cat and may have to go in for emmisions testing.

I have worked in a shop that has done a few US vehicals if the truck is over 15 years old the rules are not that bad but anything newer the truck must meet every thing required in Canada.

So by the time I'am done I can be into the truck for 28,000 dollars real easy. I have looked into importing a truck from the US but by the time you crunch the numbers you end up spending more. If the truck is a specialized truck then its worth it say a garbage truck another rare truck is one meant for drilling water wells. Vacuum trucks that pump out poo tanks are another truck hard to find same with bucket trucks.

01-27-2007, 02:25 PM
I know Scag has the truck with our conversion rate the truck would cost me 23,500 dollars before taxes. With taxes 25,145 then I have duty fees on top of that which I don't know what they are. Once I get the truck here to Canada I can't drive it till it goes through inspection and registered the truck 200-300 dollars. Then with US trucks I have to change the spedometer assembly so rip apart the dash to change everything. I don't know if you require day time running lights in the US but they are required here so you need to buy the kit to make day time running lights. The exhaust system has to have the cat and may have to go in for emmisions testing.

I have worked in a shop that has done a few US vehicals if the truck is over 15 years old the rules are not that bad but anything newer the truck must meet every thing required in Canada.

So by the time I'am done I can be into the truck for 28,000 dollars real easy. I have looked into importing a truck from the US but by the time you crunch the numbers you end up spending more. If the truck is a specialized truck then its worth it say a garbage truck another rare truck is one meant for drilling water wells. Vacuum trucks that pump out poo tanks are another truck hard to find same with bucket trucks.

That all makes sense. I would still try to find a NBS with the 7.3 if you go with a Ford. There's a ton of them around here, buy maybe they're more scarce where you are.

Gravel Rat
01-27-2007, 03:03 PM
I'am looking at Alberta trucks the oil fields use millions of F-450 and F-550 trucks they are 90% 4x4s. A guy has to find one that is in decent shape because your buying it over the phone then you either have it shipped which is easier or drive it. Trying to get over the rockies this time of year can be tough plus the fact your putting on mileage on the truck driving it home which is couple thousand kilometers. You have to have a good dealer that is honest to buy a truck over the phone.

I even looking at trucks in Eastern Canada they are cheaper out there too its calculating the shipping to get it back to the West Coast. If it costs 2000 dollars to have it shipped a guy has to put that in the figures.

I even found a few in Nova Scotia which is the farthest east I can go :laugh:

01-27-2007, 05:55 PM
Gravel Rat,

Th Km you are talking about are minimal in big picture, my shipping from PA might be falling through so I might have to drive it 3000 miles on the right truck is no big deal. I am no expert but don't let the little things get in your way I have a friend who buys F350-F550's in the texas area and brings them up to suplement his income no matter how you do the math theres and end in it. Also I wouldn't buy back in eastern Canada you can find something in the central usa area that has probably never seen snow or salt. I will let you know how this uship.com works out.

Gravel Rat
01-27-2007, 06:10 PM
The Alberta trucks look like a easier deal to get being they are not eaten away with road salt like here.

A familly friend bought a 2001 F-450 2wd it has higher miles but the truck come orginally from Saskatchewan there isn't a flake of rust on the chassis but ironically the oil pan rusted out :confused:

With our exchange rate we don't get such a good deal anymore it was nice when our dollar was close to the same value as the american dollar.

Keep in mind Mini Bin you have a hard to find truck so it was cheaper for you to buy one in the US.

If you do drive the truck minibin I would try get the truck into Canada to the closest point you bought the truck from. I don't know what the rules are like for Hours of Services. Plus traveling on the trans Canada highway would be nicer to drive that trying to cross state lines. Then you would have to find something heavy to load over the rear wheels of the truck so when you cross over the rockies you have some weight for traction in the snow. You might have to buy some chains too.