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mmacsek
10-15-2006, 10:22 PM
I hope I'm in the right forum with this question but I think I will get some straight answers . I am looking to replace our one truck, 89 Ford 450 with something newer and hopefully more reliable. The truck does everything I need it to do but doesn't dump. I have seen some nice looking trucks, 1994 International 4700 LoPro with a new dumping landscape body. It has 94K miles and has the 444E engine with an Allison trans. That engine is the 7.3liter powerstroke. I will be towing an 18' enclosed trailer. Will this truck tow this trailer? Why do I hear so many "you'll be sorry with that combo". I know this is more truck than I have but the used market is very pricey and I only put about 6000 miles a year on it. I don't want to drive cross country for a truck. Thanks for any advice/comments. Matt

RockSet N' Grade
10-16-2006, 12:03 AM
I would have to know more about the truck to know if it was even worth consideration or not.

Does the odometer say 94K? If that is what they are advertising it may have spun over and now reads 94K.

Hertz and other rental companies take their older box trucks and sell them at auction. Some folks pick them up, put a new box of some sort on them and sell them with the box being the big "selling point". Buyer beware!

How do I know? I bought one for what I thought was a very reasonable price, but have put in a new rear end, new motor, new clutch, new radiator, new intercooler, new brake drums, new brakes, new air ride seat, new tires......heck, the oldest thing in that truck now is the driver.....My truck is a real sweet truck now, but I would have been better off stepping up and buying a brand new one for the money I have put into it and the down time I have had.

If the truck is local, get an engine oil analysis.....that will tell how much life is left in the engine. Get a local diesel mechanic to give it a complete run through from front to rear to let you know what you are in for.

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 02:26 AM
If you want a International try find one with the 466 you won't be sorry. The 444 and Allison combo isn't that great mainly used in school bus applications. The 444 is one step above having a gas engine I like the 444 (PSD) but it is a little out of its legue in anything bigger than a F-550. International used to put 6.9 N/A in 5 ton trucks yikes talk about underpowered.

The new dump body is bing bing bing its tells me a dealer put a dump body onto the truck to try flog it to a un-informed landscaper. Its a truck that has probably sat on the lot for a long time never sold so they slapped a box on it.

mmacsek
10-16-2006, 08:42 AM
The truck is at a dealership that buys fleet and government maintained trucks. The tires are newer,75% tread or better, and the odometer is 6 digit. They have 4 trucks with the same specs but different years and mileage. My gut tells me they are Chemlawn trucks. The interior and engine don't appear to have been fluffed. I could put the same landscape body on my truck but it seems neverending in the shop. I know it is very difficult/impossible to say if it is a good deal or not but asking a general question about the combo or "issues" about these models. Thanks Matt

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 03:12 PM
The things you have to consider when that 444 decides to puke on you and it needs rebuilding its still going to cost you 5 grand. The 444 really isn't a rebuildable engine if it needs a new block then your into more money. The Allison isn't a cheap transmission to repair your looking at big dollars again.

janb
10-16-2006, 03:13 PM
I am looking to replace our one truck, 89 Ford 450 with something newer and hopefully more reliable. ... 1994 International 4700 LoPro with a new dumping landscape body. It has 94K miles and has the 444E engine with an Allison trans. That engine is the 7.3liter powerstroke. ...

I would stick with a 466 and manual tranny for towing, but the 18' is not too heavy, and if you have hired help driving for you, and few hills needing compression braking, then an auto might work. If you are having any engine trouble with your PSD, then I would stick with the 466 choice, as it is more 'commercial' duty, and simpler.

in any event, when buying a used diesel, get a compression check, and check for blowby, and use coolant test strips ESPECIALLY with intl or PSD engines (test strips available at Napa, or diesel engine shops) It isn't a bad idea to also check for combustion gases in coolant, those test kits are ~$35

janb

ksss
10-16-2006, 08:34 PM
JanB offers some very good advice. The 466 comes in many varieties (hp ratings, after coolers/no after coolers) Make sure you know what your getting. They are cheap to work on and cheap to replace if it comes to it. IH makes a dependable truck I think. Not always the most comfortable, but I think they are some of the most durable. The Allison would be easy for inexperienced drivers to run but they are expensive to replace. A landscape friend of mine replaced his in his low pro 4700 it was about 4K to fix. The 6-7 speed would be more safe that way just depends on what your help can run. Buying equipment out of your area is not that big of a deal. If you shop trucking companies you can usually get a decent deal on shipping. Unless you live in backwater Idaho.

Dirt Digger2
10-17-2006, 04:08 PM
if that truck only has the 7.3 non-turbo DON'T BUY IT!!!...we have an older (150K miles) 4600 or its a 4700...one of the two...the name badge is gone but the GVW is 21,000. That thing dogs it up hills and merging into traffic, it has the 5 speed and its getting a little rough. The truck is built like a rock besides for the engine, a bigger motor and you'd be fine. But i would never want to tow with it.

RockSet N' Grade
10-17-2006, 08:25 PM
If you go with a DT466, check the hp on the motor. The 195 hp is not enough guts, the 250 is adaquate, and more than that is better. Also check the rear end ratio......you can get a whole print out of what is on that particular truck by calling International ( or the person you are buying the truck from could fax you the info) and giving them the last 8 numbers of the serial number that is pop rivited to the drivers side door area.

Gravel Rat
10-18-2006, 02:13 AM
The 466 rated at 190hp is better than a 444 (7.3) rated at 190. Most of the old cornbinders around here have 466 at 210hp they do the job. The Freighliner low pro trucks are powered by 5.9Bs they are 180hp they are not fast by any means.

A 5spd or 6spd manual isn't too bad in a medium duty not really much different than a light truck the transmission is fully syncromesh. Back in the days with the 5+2 that was harder to shift and more damage could be done by guys that had troubles driving a standard.

turfquip
10-18-2006, 09:58 PM
My 96' Lo Pro freightshaker has the 5.9B, 210 HP w5 speed synchro.

Its adequate but the rear end is geared so low, I'm in 4th gear at 25 mph.
I'm in 5th at 35 through 55. At 55, she's screamin at around 2400 rpm.

Bottom line, 5 speeds is not enough... 4 more would be ideal.

ksss
10-18-2006, 10:29 PM
You could put a two speed on the rear axle making it a 5 an 2. It would help your mileage a bunch. 2400 rpm at 55 is screaming for that motor. It makes its torque rating at 1600 rpm.

Gravel Rat
10-19-2006, 04:21 AM
It defeats the purpose of a low pro but going to low profile 22.5 rubber would make a difference. The 18,000lb rear axle in the FL low pro trucks might be tough to find a 2spd for. I think the gear ratio is in the FL low pro are in the 5s which is pretty low probably could get away with 4:63.

I know a bread delivery guy he has a FL Low pro 24 valve B engine 5spd the truck is topped out at 80km/h (50mph) he says the truck won't go any faster I imagine its pegged out. I don't think I would want to be cruising a B series at highway speeds more than 2 grand.

The only thing he doesn't like about the truck is the quality of the truck isn't that great. It is a typical Freightliner it squeeks and rattles. He had to replace the fuel tank it rusted out the muffler rusted out,bumper rusting off the injection pump cost 5 grand to replace that crapped out at 100,000kms (62,000 miles) complained to Cummins they said tough luck. Had the lift pump replaced another 1000 dollars.

paponte
10-19-2006, 10:34 PM
If your in PA, there is only one place I can think of from your description. If thats the case, they are Chemlawn trucks. One major factor with these trucks is CHECK OUT THE FRAME. Lawn chemicals will corrode the crap out of a truck. I looked at these trucks, and shyed away for the same reason... 444E. Good advice from others, and the DT466 is a great motor and can be rebuilt in frame.

mmacsek
10-19-2006, 10:54 PM
If your in PA, there is only one place I can think of from your description. If thats the case, they are Chemlawn trucks. One major factor with these trucks is CHECK OUT THE FRAME. Lawn chemicals will corrode the crap out of a truck. I looked at these trucks, and shyed away for the same reason... 444E. Good advice from others, and the DT466 is a great motor and can be rebuilt in frame.
Paul, I live about 10 minutes from Coopersburg. From all the responses I decided against the truck. I originally inquired about some GMC 4500 cabovers and told me they were sold and had the LoPros for sale. I figured I would start a thread and gain some knowledge, I did. My biggest problem I put about 5K miles a year on my 1989 F 450 stakebody and can't justify anew truck payment. Towing and downtime is getting pricey. Thanks again. Paul if you're ever in the area let me know and I'll buy lunch. Matt

landscapingpoolguy
10-24-2006, 10:55 PM
I have one of these trucks for sale. Honestly it is a great truck for any lawn service co. Mine is in excellent shape and can be test driven almost any day. check your pms if your interested.