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View Full Version : Still waiting on CASE 465


ksss
10-16-2006, 08:03 PM
I am more than a little miffed. I ordered a CASE 465 in June. I find out yesterday that it wont be built until Oct. 19th. I wont see it until sometime in November. That will be just in time to push my driveway. That doesn't pay too well. I hate getting a new machine this time of the year. I had until today to cancel it. I debated that and ultimately continued with the purchase. Grudgingly I might add. I really don't want a first year tier 3 engine (machines built after Jan 01-07)and the low interest and extended warranty are a strong pull. Apparently the insentives offered have worked well for them. That combined with a manufacturing system that switches from CASE to NH in the same plant I think is the real problem. The machine I ordered has High Flow so they do all of the HF units at one time. All this adds up I guess to a 4 month wait. I will be going to the factory in November and plan on voicing my displeasure with this system for what that will do.:confused:

jazak
10-16-2006, 08:22 PM
I don't get why they're taking sooo long; you should be like a valued customer since how much CASE stuff you have already + you're a still growing company that will always be upgrading their equipment. :dizzy: If I was the CASE dealer you would've already had your 465 & between the time you ordered it and you got it you would have a FREE machine. I don't know what your dealer is thinking, from the list I see you have some newer equipment so I would guess they you have bought from them before, that makes it even more odd that they are almost not caring about you or your purchase. :hammerhead: :dizzy:
Sell all the stuff and go CAT. :clapping: :laugh:

One quick question though how do you pull your Case 9020B with the GMC 5500?!? :confused: :confused:

NateV
10-16-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't get why they're taking sooo long; you should be like a valued customer since how much CASE stuff you have already + you're a still growing company that will always be upgrading their equipment. :dizzy: If I was the CASE dealer you would've already had your 465 & between the time you ordered it and you got it you would have a FREE machine. I don't know what your dealer is thinking, from the list I see you have some newer equipment so I would guess they you have bought from them before, that makes it even more odd that they are almost not caring about you or your purchase. :hammerhead: :dizzy:
Sell all the stuff and go CAT. :clapping: :laugh:

One quick question though how do you pull your Case 9020B with the GMC 5500?!? :confused: :confused:

Its not the dealers fault he does'nt have the machine, and why does everybody say switch to CAT?

dozerman21
10-16-2006, 10:08 PM
They should have told you sooner that you're machine wasn't even being built until now. They might have been afraid you would back out of the deal. That's B.S. though. I'd make 'em throw in an extra jacket!:D

At least you're able to take advantage of the incentives, like everybody else. I get something in the mail about every two weeks for a deal on a Case skid.

I don't blame you for not wanting a first year Tier III. I always stay away from any first year engine. Let 'em get some of the bugs out.

Do you know how big of a role, if any, Cummins has in the Case engines? Particularly, the small dozers and skid steers? Ever since they started CNH it's become confusing.

By the way, since you're going to the factory, maybe you wouldn't mind asking someone about info on the 550 size K series hystats! Mainly, when they will be selling them, and what the specs are.:drinkup:

Gravel Rat
10-16-2006, 10:18 PM
Trucks are no different one of the owner operators I know ordered his new Pete back in May his truck isn't being built till sometime this month. He said to me Pete give's you a date when your truck is built. A excavation contractor was looking at buying a blade runner excavator I forget which brand but he was told there is a 1 year waiting list.

qps
10-16-2006, 10:44 PM
I am more than a little miffed. I ordered a CASE 465 in June. I find out yesterday that it wont be built until Oct. 19th. I wont see it until sometime in November. That will be just in time to push my driveway. That doesn't pay too well. I hate getting a new machine this time of the year. I had until today to cancel it. I debated that and ultimately continued with the purchase. Grudgingly I might add. I really don't want a first year tier 3 engine (machines built after Jan 01-07)and the low interest and extended warranty are a strong pull. Apparently the insentives offered have worked well for them. That combined with a manufacturing system that switches from CASE to NH in the same plant I think is the real problem. The machine I ordered has High Flow so they do all of the HF units at one time. All this adds up I guess to a 4 month wait. I will be going to the factory in November and plan on voicing my displeasure with this system for what that will do.:confused:

:laugh: feel your pain

Dirty Water
10-16-2006, 10:52 PM
Trucks are no different one of the owner operators I know ordered his new Pete back in May his truck isn't being built till sometime this month. He said to me Pete give's you a date when your truck is built. A excavation contractor was looking at buying a blade runner excavator I forget which brand but he was told there is a 1 year waiting list.

Kobelco builds the Blade Runners

As far as KSSS towing his 9020b, he has a tandem dump.

ksss
10-16-2006, 11:16 PM
qps I actually thought of you when this unfolded like it did. What comes around goes around kind thing I guess. It isn't the dealers fault, but they either knew or should have known when this was going to be built. I don't know why I wasn't told. Maybe cause they knew I would go "off" just like I did when I called and found out on my own what the deal was. They didn't need to give me a machine since I already have one in the form of a 95XT. This is my arrangement with them. They appaise my machine, in this case my trade is 29K, the clock stops. I have put 300 hours on it since they appaised it. I still get my 29K. So basicly I am running my own machine with zero depreciation. My issue is I wanted this machine on the ground when I could put it to work pushing dirt not snow. It really upsets me that I wasn't told. I am about as loyal as it comes to the CASE skid steer program. However, no one should have to wait 4 months for a skid steer. At least Tim's mini was coming from overseas, this is coming from fricking Wichita.

I will ask on the dozer sometimes when I go down there are Product guys from different lines there as well. I will see if someone can tell me about the dozer. They had called two weeks ago and wanted to fly me down on a four day notice. Couldn't pull that one off. Cummins has a big part in the engines. Eveco (sp?) is very much a Cummins/CASE influenced company. They are just built overseas. I was concerned after running 3.9 cummins and having good luck with them, I was not excited about them changing the engine. However I ran the prototypes in 03 and they ran harder than the 3.9s in the current machines. My 440 is an animal. They are more quiet, a little different power curve but still very much gets after it. However I don't want to take a chance on Tier 3 screwing that up.

Scag48
10-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Not the dealer's fault for you not having the machine, but totally the dealer's fault for not telling you how long the wait was ACTUALLY going to be. If you say switch to Cat to avoid these issues, obviously you don't know what you're talking about. I waited 4 months for Cat buckets that were probably built here in the PNW...

2004F550
10-17-2006, 10:03 AM
ordered a gmc 5500 in march and it is being delivered around Oct 31, talk about a long wait.

2004F550
10-17-2006, 10:05 AM
ordered a gmc 5500 in march and it is being delivered around Oct 31. It was going to be delivered "no later" then July. talk about a long wait, it was worse than our FD's new tanker. Anyway, sucks to get a new machine going into a slower season, Cat was suppose to have our new loader in September and its now suppose to be in November, lotta good that does when we need it 3 months ago.

ksss
10-17-2006, 10:41 AM
I think all the OEM's are trying to reduce the amount of machines on the ground and are adapting more of a build for the demand kind of philosophy. I can understand the reasoning behind it. However if that is what your plan is than your abiity to produce on demand needs to be there. Otherwise we wait for months for a machine. Considering that most of the excavation work that occurs in the USA is seasonal that can be painful. I hate bringing new payments into the slow season. Also the warranty clock starts when it is delievered.

qps
10-17-2006, 10:53 AM
Stop the presses...the mini is confirmed on a boat...slow boat...no doubt...now if they can steer clear of the Bermuda triangle I got it made.:cool2:

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 10:56 AM
Ksss like you say what goes around comes around ! I think you will find out that it is going to be the norm for most of use sometime or later,if you buying new equipment.Sorry to say!

When i ordered my Deere CTL they wasn't even making them on the line yet,altho they had protypes out using them.I odered in March,with the deleivery time in late June or first of July,but didin't get it unti Sept ,so it was a long wait also.I did know it was goning to take time since they wasn't being built on the production line at factory yet.

I went to Dubuque,to the factory and got to see it made and was a Gold Key customer so that was a great once in a life time experience,too me!!!!!!! at least.

Back too the point of late delieverys,at the Deere factory they told me that no machine was made until they recieved the order,they wasn't making any machine to just have setting around as inventory machines.So i would say all the factorys are doing the same thing.

Plus at Deere they was building the ctl and the wheel skids through the same assembly line at that time,so if you ordered ctl it wasn't going to be built the same day that they got the order unless they was running ctls through the line at that time. So that is some of what is going on.

Fact is !!!! no matter how many machine you by at dealers,unless they have one sitting on there lot ,you will probably have a long wait time.Times are changing and they aren't going to have inventory setting around at the factory.Dealers yes ,but not at the factory.

The machines that was at the fatory setting around was already sold and waiting for deleivery.

dozerman21
10-17-2006, 11:23 AM
When I ordered my CT332 in April, they had it to me 6 weeks later in May. They gave me an exact build date and stuck to it. I thought that was very quick, especially considering that spring is the busiest time of the year. I used my Bobcat that I was trading in while the machine was being built, and put on an additional 75 hours or so.

Construct'O, I couldn't make the Gold Key Trip to Iowa. My wife was pregnant with our little boy. Is it a good time and worth going to (from Indy)? Also, do they make their dozers there too?

QPS, why do I get the feeling I might see your mini on the show "Lost" tomorrow night!?:laugh: :clapping: By the way, I think I know where your barn is. That looks good! That's about the same size I want to build. I might have to hit you up with some info if you don't mind when I get a little closer to building.:drinkup: Is that a 60X100?

qps
10-17-2006, 11:26 AM
When I ordered my CT332 in April, they had it to me 6 weeks later in May. They gave me an exact build date and stuck to it. I thought that was very quick, especially considering that spring is the busiest time of the year. I used my Bobcat that I was trading in while the machine was being built, and put on an additional 75 hours or so.

Construct'O, I couldn't make the Gold Key Trip to Iowa. My wife was pregnant with our little boy. Is it a good time and worth going to (from Indy)? Also, do they make their dozers there too?

QPS, why do I get the feeling I might see your mini on the show "Lost" tomorrow night!?:laugh: :clapping: By the way, I think I know where your barn is. That looks good! That's about the same size I want to build. I might have to hit you up with some info if you don't mind when I get a little closer to building.:drinkup: Is that a 60X100?

Thompson rd. between five points and franklin area..60x64...that's my next fear if the friggin boat will sink:dizzy:

60 x 100 would have been sweet...but the money is running out

ksss
10-17-2006, 11:52 AM
That brings up another point that the CTL's also take up a space at the plant. Not only the CASE CTL's but they have to run seperate for the NH CTL. That was something I had not considered. Still doesn't make me feel any better, I think I have to credit this one to lack of communication with the dealer.

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by dozerman21
Construct'O, I couldn't make the Gold Key Trip to Iowa. My wife was pregnant with our little boy. Is it a good time and worth going to (from Indy)? Also, do they make their dozers there too?

Dozerman ,I ordered my CTL March of 05 and it was one of the first ones off the assembly line. Was yours odered April of 06 ?????? Just so you know guys i did get the 3 year extended warranty !

The Gold Key was a great experience like i said .Well worth your time even from where you live.I have been to Cat factory at Peoria and they never had anything over the Deere people,but it has been a long time since i was at Cat,sure they have changed also.

I was the VIP of the day.Checked in early that morning,had speiacl tour person the whole time.Got to see them making wheel skid ,plus Ctl because at the time they was building my Ctl,but was switching back to wheel loaders.

Got to see it built from start to finish ! Bear frame to hydraulic,to drive motors ,engine,putting the tracks on it. Sssembly the outside and last ,got to see them digno the engine and machine.

VIP lunch,plus meet with the engineers ,discussed what type of use i was going to be doing with my machine,and so fore.

Got to demo one out in the yard,plus took pictures, got a nice plaque with several picture of me going through the factory ,and when i was demoing the machine.

Got set of Gold Keys with the serial number on them ,plus metal plaque to mount in the cab of machine with serial number on it saying "Built with Pride for ,My name, By John Deere Dubuque Works CT332 # serial number, Date 15 Aug 2005"

Free hats ,they thought i needed to take my Cat hat off for some reason????

I could go on ,but sure this is boring for some.Sorry for the long post guys,but was a thrill even for a old guy like me! I almost forgot they had my name up on bill board sign in the factory in Gold Letters and a Gold Key under it saying Gold Key Customer. Like i said once in a life time experience.First time i ever had my name up in lights and probably the last time!!!!!!!!

Also ,yes they build the dozers, backhoes, and wheel skids and now the CTL there also.We also got a fast tour through where they bulit the dozers and backhoes also.

Thanks guys for letting me post this.Denny

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 12:49 PM
By the way Gps,glad to see your back on here posting!!!!!!!!! Hope your machine gets here soon also.We all get antsy when we are waiting for a machine ,be it new or old.

Look at it this way ! It could make a heck of a great Christmas present at least! Lets hope not.Good Luck

You still got the loaner????????? Thats been a good deal hasn't it?

qps
10-17-2006, 02:43 PM
By the way Gps,glad to see your back on here posting!!!!!!!!! Hope your machine gets here soon also.We all get antsy when we are waiting for a machine ,be it new or old.

Look at it this way ! It could make a heck of a great Christmas present at least! Lets hope not.Good Luck

You still got the loaner????????? Thats been a good deal hasn't it?

Yes, I still have the loaner, if things don't get out of hand again I'll stick around for awhile...

dozerman21
10-17-2006, 05:32 PM
QPS- Yep, that's where I was thinking. I go by there all the time. I know what you mean on the price of the barn. Those extra feet add up quick, especially the concrete.

Construct'O- Yea, I bought mine this past spring. I didn't realize you bought yours in '05. I got the plaque, keys, hats, all that good stuff too. I'll definetly try to make the trip next time. By the way, how's your Deere holding up? Have you had any problems with it? Mine's doing great, but I only have around 200 hours on it. The more I use it though, the more I like it.

xcopterdoc
10-17-2006, 06:13 PM
The Iveco engines are made in Italy. Very durable long lasting engines.Nothing fancy, just good raw power.

dozerman21
10-17-2006, 06:41 PM
So Iveco makes the Case/New Holland engines? Is Cummins still in the picture? The last and current engines we have are the 4T-390. They are very durable and have good power. I believe Cummins made that, but I've heard different stories on the newer engines.:confused:

ksss
10-17-2006, 07:00 PM
CASE here got a 465 in last week with a rod that ventilated the block. It had 65 hours on it. At least one must have slipped through QA at Iveco.

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 08:26 PM
KSSS
So your saying the New Holland Ctl's and Case Ctl'sare both made at the same factory???? If so that is interesting!

I did notice that the track frames and tracks looked alike on some of the pictures on websites i looked at.

So are they both using the same track frames and tracks or are they different?

ksss
10-17-2006, 08:38 PM
Yes the undercarriage is identical and both machines come from the same plant in Witchita, KS. Last I was told is that they will also share the same pilot control system. Although someone said NH is advertising theirs already, and the CASE pilots are still in development (my purpose for going to the factory in November). So either they are trying to get guys to order the pilots anticipating a quick release or they are running separate systems. I rather doubt that considering how much money has been spent on R&D on this control system. I am sure they would like to spread the costs over both lines of skid steers and CTLs.

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 08:59 PM
dozerman21

Here are a few of the problems i have had.The first thing was the window didn't want to open one day.It was just miner adjustment and hasn't been a problem since.

I had a bearing go out of rear idler,with less then a 100 hours.They are built by Berco ,so wan't really a Deere issue.It just looked like they never filled the idler with oil to start with,because the bearing fell out on too the track and it looked like new and dry as a bone. Dealer replaced and haven't had a problem since.

Deere came out with an update to replace springs in the fuel pumps,which they have a fuel pump in each cyclinder,being a 5 cyclinder they had to replace all 5,not like old motors with just a single fuel pump.They said they had problems with the springs breaking and was putting in heavy springs.Plus at the same time there was an update on the covers along the engine.They put on new covers that had punched holes in them,more like screens to get better air flow.No cost to me.

I only have around 240 hours on my machine.I have noticed a crack in one of rubber tracks starting at the boss pin molted in the rubber track where the sprocket drives the track.It is a concern to me and i have talked to the dealer ,but they said it is nothing to worry about.Of course i do worry and have been talking to them on a regular bases about it.

I use my machine basicly to backfill the dirt from the drainage tile lines i put in for farmers.My machine has only been used mostly in the dirt,and has not been abused.

Of course when i was buying, the salemen told me they had been getting 2000 hours out of tracks in the test fields.So i was figuring at least getting close to that with out a problem,but with 240 hour i'm wondering.They say if they go down they will stand behind them ,but the way i use it it will probably last until my extended warranty is out,time will tell.

Other then the track issue ,the rest has been miner and the service from my dealer has been good and fast.My machine has a lot of power and at times more then i need.THe engines will run 2950 rpm at full throttle spec on them is 2800 rpm and i usually only run it 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.It seems to be kind of a fuel hog runs at about 3 gallon an hour.

That about it !

Construct'O
10-17-2006, 09:07 PM
KSSS
Who has controlling interest Case ot New Holland???

Maybe it is like said between Cat and Asv ??????? Case wants New Holland to test the market before they comment?????? on the pilot controls.

ksss
10-17-2006, 09:49 PM
The company itself is called CNH. Neither CASE nor New Holland has controlling interest. The parent company is Fiat. I am positive CASE is not using the New Holland skid steers to test the waters. CASE has been testing this sytem for a full year that I know of. CASE is very committed to releasing the most advanced control system in any skid steer or CTL. I am not totally sure about this I think the system that CASE develops will just be brought across to the NH skid steer program. I am not sure NH is doing any testing on their own. When I say that they are committed to this control system I mean they are throwing everything at this program and when it releases I think it will be something to talk about. I'll know more specifics after I get back.

RockSet N' Grade
10-17-2006, 10:10 PM
Ksss......bring back complimentary coffee mugs, t-shirts, and hats...(notice that is plural meaning one for everyone.)

ksss
10-18-2006, 10:20 PM
Curt, I would hate to see some guys erupt into human torches. Items so pure as CASE memorabilia is only suitable for those fortunate souls that have taken Power Tan into their hearts and minds and are true believers. However for you being a Gehl guy, I'll see what I can do.

ksss
10-27-2006, 11:14 PM
My new 465 is in and was PDIed today. I am excited. I'll probably exchange machines on Monday. Nothing like new paint, probably because it stays new for such a short time.

Tigerotor77W
10-28-2006, 10:07 AM
My university has an old 95XT... I'm trying to see if they'll let me turn the key in it. :D

Scag48
10-28-2006, 12:46 PM
Oh Tiger, you don't wanna run a Case, you want to run Cat, the better brand, duh! Hahaha

Tigerotor77W
10-28-2006, 10:23 PM
The day I have the guts to buy equipment and dig myself some holes... maybe it'll be a Cat. :D

rick21793
11-07-2006, 09:17 PM
I ordered a case 465 in August of 2005. It did not come in until the last week of Nov. 2005 I don't understand why it was delayed the dealer keep telling me I would have it in a couple of weeks. But it took 3.5 monthes to get it.

On another note we have put over 600 hours on it and we really like it. We have had no trouble with it and the thing is like a bull dozer. I got it to replace a 1845 so it was quite a step up

ksss
11-07-2006, 11:46 PM
That is close to the time I had to wait. Ordered mine in June sometime, got it firt week in Nov. I picked it up the other day. I have not spent any real time it yet. Sure looks pretty.

totm
12-28-2006, 11:05 AM
We had the same problem with getting the 465, ordered it in March was suppose to receive it end of April, got it end of June. It has been a DISASTER ever since!!!! there was a recall the day we received it for over heating, both hydraulic cylinders on the arms broke, then one of the replacement cylinder leaked, we finally put in a seal kit ourselves, the wipers broke off the second day, we have replace the windshield 3 times, finally had one custom made with unbreakable plastic, has the wrong rims for the tires on it, one rim broke off that is how we found out they are the wrong ones, so now we have to check the bolts through out the day, in the book it says there is a plate under the skid steer, ours doesn't have one, when the motor is running all the dirt is sucked up into the under carriage. This is just a small part of the problems we have had. We are currently checking out the Mustang brand. We need the high horse power. I am checking into a lemon law!!

Construct'O
12-28-2006, 01:14 PM
If that is the small part of the troubles you have hard ,what are the big ones????

I looked at ctl 450 the other day and thought it was heavy duty,so what happened with the cylinders breaking? I liked the heavy duty rear grill made like a tank,not sure with the lowers like they are if they might not let the air flow at good.Is that what is causing the heating problem?????

If you dent that one up you need to rethink who your hiring for help!!!!!!

ksss
12-28-2006, 06:55 PM
Mine runs good I have about 125 hours on it. This is the third 95/465 I have had and have had good luck with them. It shouldn't take 5 months to get though. Totm PM if you can (you may be too new) I may be able to help you out.

Dirty Water
12-28-2006, 07:17 PM
We had the same problem with getting the 465, ordered it in March was suppose to receive it end of April, got it end of June. It has been a DISASTER ever since!!!! there was a recall the day we received it for over heating, both hydraulic cylinders on the arms broke, then one of the replacement cylinder leaked, we finally put in a seal kit ourselves, the wipers broke off the second day, we have replace the windshield 3 times, finally had one custom made with unbreakable plastic, has the wrong rims for the tires on it, one rim broke off that is how we found out they are the wrong ones, so now we have to check the bolts through out the day, in the book it says there is a plate under the skid steer, ours doesn't have one, when the motor is running all the dirt is sucked up into the under carriage. This is just a small part of the problems we have had. We are currently checking out the Mustang brand. We need the high horse power. I am checking into a lemon law!!

What exactly do you use the skid for?

ksss
12-28-2006, 08:15 PM
I have read this post several times since first responding. Several things come to mind. Breaking the lift arm cylinders thats interesting. I have run up to a 1,500 pound Esco hammer on my 95XT's and other than rattle the hell out of it never broke any thing. I can't imagine what you would have to do to break the lift arm cylinders. Like Dirty Water, I am dying to know what you do with the skid steer. Breaking the windshield isn't a CASE problem. You can/could order a Lexan door if you want to it is a factory option. The windshield wiper problem we will call that a CASE problem. The lack of floor plates in the machine. Your right the tub should be sealed if it isn't you contact your dealer which I believe is Krider equipment and they give you one. The rim issue if it came from the factory with the wrong rims than they will send you the right ones. I can't imagine why that should be a problem. You shouldn't have to check the lugs to be sure they are tight everyday. I am familiar with Krider Equipment and I am sure they would stand behind the machine, as long as its the machine and not some other problem.

There are tree guys here with 48-50 inch tree spades, massive amounts of counter weight running with tracks, climbing all over the mountains moving trees with 465/95XTs. I have never heard anyone not happy with them. I have had discussions with the Bobcat/Deere sales guys and they admit that they have a difficult time getting guys to run anything else in the 3K plus ROC class. Not to say there are not some shitty machines out there as there are in any brand. The recall you mention did not affect you the way it sounds. The feeling I am getting is that there is a breakdown with the dealer. I have a contact with Krider and check into it if you would like. I also have contacts with the regional reps and the factory.

totm
12-28-2006, 10:33 PM
We do not hire others, self employed. We work in trees, and with the door problem when the spade was attached the machine settled and the door was partly open so there went the door, shattered!! there is very little clearance for the door and the attachment frame. the other time a branch pushed up by the door and the glass shattered, luckily the operator had on safety glasses cause there was glass everywhere, he did get some cuts on his hands. the next time it was also a branch, the door is just way too long, so there is no clearance , plus stuff hits the glass!! as for the shield on the back of the skid steer, it gets full of twigs, so then when we open up the hatch the twigs fall into the motor. the overheating problem was suppose to be fixed, but all the dealer did was cause another hydraulic leak, that we didn't know about cause it is dirty working, we took it in 2 times and they couldn't find the leak, after us putting in over 20 gallons of oil we found the leak ourselves. my husband has been writing up a report on all the problems and it is 7 pages long!!! If he wasn't able to fix the problems himself we would have to shut down our business!!! the skid steer is our main piece of equipment

totm
12-28-2006, 11:03 PM
with the tire issue, we had tracks on the machine, have them off now, to begin with one of the tires was spinning on the rim, and ruined the rim, so the salesman said that we need to put foam in the tires to prevent them from spinning on the rims, so more down time and at our expense we had foam put in the tires, plus bought a new rim for the one that was ruined. well about a month later we were out working and my husband called me over to come with the camera and one of the front rims broke off the skid steer, and when looking at the other rims we noticed that the new one was different than the other 3, thats because it was the correct rim, the other three including that one that broke are not as heavy duty, and are not for the tires that we have on them. with the overheating problem, I think it had to do with the high flow and now it was discovered that when the oil overheated it wrecked the seals in the stump grinder, so it was leaking oil, which is hard to see when you are working in chips and dirt. as for the stump grinder when the dealer hooked it up they didn't have long enough hose so warned us that they needed to be longer, so another break down for us. and YES I feel it is a problem with the dealer not making good on this machine. especially when we have to correct the problems. like the leaking cylinder, it was suppose to be replaced but a new one wasn't coming in, plus that means loading up the machine and driving up to 200 miles to get it installed, so we put in a seal kit in the field. we do also use a 1845c that is why we went with case, we have had good luck with the old machine.plus we used case tractors when we farmed.
as for what we do, it is a new invention, and have to decide on doing a patent.
the skid steer is worked steady all day, but it tires out before we do, and we are in our 50's!!!! If my husband has a job closer to home this weekend maybe I can get him to write more of the exact problems, since he is the one that fixes them!! as for the door our son works for a place that makes the doors for other brands of skid steers so we had a template made of the last door we bought and after that broke we made a door out of steel with a smaller window, but then our son told us about the doors they make, so he took the template and made us one, the only problem we haven't found a seal wide enough, but haven't had time to search for one either, so we are using the old seal

Scag48
12-29-2006, 01:15 AM
I don't really understand the hydraulic overheating, doesn't make sense to me. Only thing I can think of is maybe your hydraulic cooler isn't working properly, that would be a Case issue. You mentioned that they hooked up the grinder and the hose was too short and they warned you, so who's fault is that? If they told you it was too short and you ran it anyway, that's your fault. As far as the rims go, sometimes you need a heavier duty rim when using tracks. Case would not ship that machine if the rims were wrong, you were just using them with tracks and that completely negates any fault by Case.

Sorry, but I think most of the issues you have had are either fluke, combination of attachments that isn't correct, or misuse by the operator. That's just how the business is, you're in a somewhat specialized niche and it requires special equipment that can and will break down more often than a basic skid steer.

ksss
12-29-2006, 01:37 AM
Well that is interesting.

I think you may have a case to complain with the rims. If the they put the wrong rims on your machine then they (CASE or the Dealer) should pay you back for the rim you bought and replace the other three rims complete with tires and foam. That would be an easy arguement to make if it is as you say. After that this gets more complicated.

I don't see your argument about the door. You could have ordered a Lexan door when you bought the machine. You also could have put a Lexan door on at anytime after you broke a glass door. The door thing is either operator error or "things happen". It has nothing to do with a faulty product.

I get the impression you are prototyping some type of attachment as you speak of patents and not wanting to say what you do. If you are running unapproved attachments on the machine then you also can't blame the machine at least for hyd. problems and they wont warranty that. The 95XT/465 has one of the most powerful high flow systems on the market. Companies like Loftness use these machines to benchmark their attachments because of their capacity. I still don't get how you broke both lift cylinders.

I would take your 7 page list and start with the dealer and try and get some resolution. You may request to speak to your regional product support guy to help resolve the problem. I am not getting a good feeling on what is going on here, but I don't need to.

You may want to try another machine. I was in Sioux Falls a couple of months ago and stopped in at the Gehl dealer (fairly large). They had 3 7810 size machines that have been sitting soo long that they have faded badly sitting on the lot. I bet they would happy to make a deal with you on one of those machines. They are mech. the same as a Mustang. I am assuming you don't have a Mustang dealer in Bismarck (but maybe there is). Good luck

totm
12-29-2006, 11:27 AM
we were never told that there was another style of door available, wouldn't you think that after ours breaking three times, that, someone would have let us know that there was a different door to put use, especially after telling them that we made one ourselves
we ordered the tracks with the skid steer, the salesman should know what tires and what rims will work with tracks,
as for the stump grinder, we bought that from the dealer, I feel they should have hooked it up correctly, not send it out with hoses too short, we didn't buy it to not use it.
I did email someone off the case site and a month later they emailed me back and I responded, but since then I haven't heard anything. There is a Mustang dealer in Minot. I did see that Gehl makes a big machine, so maybe we will have to go and look at that one in SD. Didin't know there is regional product support guy, how do we contact him??
the dealer also hooked up the proto type attachment, which is lighter that the 42" tree spade we use, so in my opinion that would say that the attachment is approved to use.

ksss
12-29-2006, 03:52 PM
The question really isn't a matter of weight of the prototype attachment as it is a matter of what your doing with the hyd. flow. If your hooking up your attachment to the high flow side your pushing a lot oil. If your attachment is restricting that flow you will build heat, potentially a lot of it. There is quite a bit that goes into getting an attachment approved. An example is the VTS track system which is made by Loegren (in Cooperstown, ND). I don't know of anyone that has approved those tracks at a corporate level except maybe CAT since they are owned by CAT.I don't think your regional guy is the same as mine but give me a couple days I will find out who it is. Have you talked to the dealer about your issues. If so what was said?

2109 Stang
12-29-2006, 07:08 PM
When I was looking for a new machine ,the first one I looked at was the Case 465 ,I'd told the salesman I wanted cab a/c 2 speed hi flow ride control and every little option I can get ,well they had a bare bone machine and he try to explain why I shouldn't buy a machine like that ,I left the place and then he kept calling me for weeks ,he could not understand that I had already purchase another machine ,before I left ,I'd talk to another sales man he explain to me that I had to go through the other guy ,well I end up getting the mustang and now Im happy that the Case guy wasn't willing to get the machine the way I wanted ,he wanted to get rid of the one he had there so bad that he lost my business and am very happy with my 2109 .

totm
12-30-2006, 11:17 AM
It was the high flow hydraulics that was overheating,(don't know for sure if it is corrected, since it is now cold out and we don't use the high flow everyday) and the "bobcat" stump grinder is the only attachment used with the high flow. When the dealer "fixed" the overheating problem, which had the recall, something wasn't down correctly and there was a leak in the system, so we took it back and they couldn't find anything leaking even though there was fluid all over and we were adding 10-15 gallons of oil at a time, our nephew found the problem but the grinder had to be running. one of our concerns is how long the hydraulic system will work after overheating and low on fluid, plus with it overheating it wrecked the seals in the grinder, unknown to us, so that was run low on fluid also and will need repair. My husband has worked with hydraulics for years and if he has questions on them he confers with people at "Force America". he is back in the area so I'll get his "report" and then will have better information. As I am not working everyday where the machine is. One of our problems is that the service department doesn't seem to be competent, the machine comes out of there with a different problem each time.

Fieldman12
12-30-2006, 01:20 PM
From what I have saw New Holland skid steers appear to be way more popular than the Case skid steers around here. I know for the longest time especially around here before Case had a vertical lift machine the Case IH/New Holland dealers when asked which machine was the better they always said the New Holland was the quicker and better machine. In the past few years though I see allot more Case skid steers out there.I personally love Case construction equipment. I looked at a New Case CTL today that was vertical lift for $50,000. It was a nice machine but I think the older Case skid steers appear to be heavier built.

ksss
12-30-2006, 08:00 PM
The pre vertical lift CASE machines were very good. The 1840 and 1845C machines are rock solid and still bring very good money on the used market especially the 1845C. NH's larger machines were capable of higher lift ratings than the 1845C so depending on what your doing the NH machine may have been a better fit for some. Ironically, although that is no longer true and hasn't been for 10 years many still think the NH will out lift anything else on the market. Just an example of how strong word of mouth is. If you were looking at a vertical lift CTL than it would have been the 445CT which is based on the 445/85XT frame system. Personally I wish they would have kept the 95XT/465 loader arm configuration on the 445 machine. I have asked and they don't have any problems running the smaller arms but they look light to me. If they were a structural problem, I guess you would see it show up on the CT machine. This is the third year of production for that machine so if it was a problem they would have switched back I am sure. If you want to see some steel check out the 450CT. The NH machines are popular. They have always been cheap (comparatively) to buy and have developed a loyal following. Personally I cant stand running them but I acknowledge that they are popular with others.

Fieldman12
12-30-2006, 08:23 PM
That's what Im talking about the 95XT was built solid. I looked at both a new Case 445CTvertical and smaller radial lift today and I must say they looked like allot cheaper of a machine than what they use to be. I also went to Tri-Green today and looked at a New Holland and Bobcat skid steer that had to at least be twenty years old. I will have to say both where built like tanks. From what I have saw the ones today have better cycle times in all brands and more comfortable but like a buddy told me that is in the excavating business, a skid steer just does not hold up like other pieces of excavating equipment because all the abuse. I thought personally $50,000.00 for any brand of skid steer is just way to much. I realize they can push almost as much as a small dozer but still I dont see where the $50,000.00 is.

ksss
12-30-2006, 09:40 PM
The smaller tracked machine may have been a 440 or 420. I have no experience with 420 the 440CT is pure animal. The 95XT is now the 465 same machine as 95XT just different engine and hyd. componenets. It is hard to believe what a skid steer can cost, but you can make a lot of money with one.

Scag48
12-31-2006, 03:03 AM
There's money in compact work, just gotta find a niche. Brand new skid steer is no more than $40K for a machine that gets $70 an hour out here. New 120 excavator is $140K and gets around $120 an hour. It's not hard to see that the equation between investment and hourly return isn't linear, small equipment makes money. Just a matter of keeping them working.

Fieldman12
12-31-2006, 11:57 AM
Yes, it was a 420 that I looked at. I know it's a small machine but it looked cheap.