21" Mower------> Unprofessional?

[XOFMOT]

Ok everyone----I'm going to be making out my flyers this weekend to distribute this MONDAY!!!!
I'll let everyone know the responce when I get some. I KNOW this week I WILL be getting my FIRST CUSTOMER!!!

My question is......Are the residential customers that are out there expecting to see a 60" hyro mowing there lawn or a 21" push? Like I said in another post, I'm just starting out with this career on a PART-TIME basis until it gets off the ground. I'm Starting off with all my "HOMEOWNER" equipment that I already own (21" Craftsman, Trimmer, Gas hedge trimmer, bacpack blower and so on...) I'm just wondering if this even makes a differance at all to the home owner.I bought a new truck last year, so I know I got that part covered for a while. Thanks in advance:D

[Scag48]

To answer your question, yes and no. Yes, in a way they ARE expecting good service and what kind of equipment you have might reflect what kind of service. No, in a sense that most people DON'T like the look of a huge mower going across their lawn, at least that's what I've heard from some of the guys here. I think the deal there is they want you to take the most time you possibly can instead of coming in with big mowers, mowing it quick (but doing a good job) and leaving. In other terms, more time on the job for their $$$. Don't ever let anybody tell you off just because of what equipment you have. If the customer starts complaining about what equipment you have, leave. Drop the account and tell them that you can't and won't service a lawn that won't let you use your equipment the way you want. It's that simple. I hope this helped and good luck!

[awm]

okay you ready to go. hate to say it but its hard to understand why u want to work so hard.if you are school age or just dont have any credit then you set to go. good luck

[cos]

It depends on the size of the lawns that you mow. I wouldn't necessarly mow a football field with a push mower. If you get enough push mower customers then you may move upto a 48". Or just invest in one now and start builing on your investment.

[lawrence stone]

Your Crapsman mower will be dead in a month.

Here is the hard truth. You need two of everything and you have to bring it to the dance in case you break.

Just to make my point when I left the house today to do a large suburban route I took two 52", one 44" and a 21" mower and I
work SOLO.

I also was able to finsh the day with the same machine I started with,
but it's not like that everyday. Stuff breaks all the time if it is used daily and hard. You need to have a back up plan for every situation or you better stay with your working for wages job.

[XOFMOT]

AWM....


I'm not school age (33) and I have plenty of credit and avail. cash to go out and purchase pretty much any type of "professional equipment" that would be needed. I am also employed full time as an eletronic technician. I just want a change. Tired of punching the clock making Mr. Big...BIGGER IN THE WALLET, It's my turn.

As for why shouldn't I just go out and buy all professional equipment from the get go, because I hate to be all dressed up with no place to go.

[lawrence stone]

To make any money in your area you are going to need at least a
44" walkbehind and a stand on sulky. About $1000-1500 used or
$2500 to 3000 new.

Any thing less and you will be too slow and won't be even able to compete with the present contractors in your area.

In order to get new customers you will have to show them that you are better than thier present contractor.

So why would a customer change using a LCO with commercial deck mowers for your 21" crapsman?

[jones]

Nice Truck,
If you can afford that ride spend some $$$ and get commercial grade equip.

[Toroguy]

If you dont have any customers right now...a $8000 mower isnt going to do a thing for you. Your homeowner equipment will get you by up to around 7 customers. Then you will want to upgrade to a WB, and more commercial equipment.

I started cheap, and at about 31 years of age., a $100 Target mower that lasted three months, bought a crapsman mower that lasted 2 months, then pushed a commercial lawn boy a year before seeing the light.

As far as appearance is concerned, your customers are interested in getting the grass cut. Mow in straight lines, keep you blade sharp, and leave the site looking nice.

Save your money and upgrade.

[yardmonkey]

I too was an electronics technician and was getting tired of computers and working for someone else. I have been self-employed and loving it for over a year now. There is nothing unprofessional about a 21" mower. You will find that you will be needing a commercial grade mower though. I trashed 2 Sears mowers in my first month and then bought a Honda which has proven to be indestructible so far. A good commerical 21" mower will cost $800 - $1200. I got the Honda HRC512SXA, which was about $850. Honda has a full line of commercial 21" mowers as well as residential 21" mowers. Toro makes good ones too. You should check out some mower shops and see what they have. You will also want a commercial grade trimmer (weedeater). I have an Echo 2100 ($200), Shindaiwa T230 ($250) and a Robin BH2500 ($350). All are great machines. I got the Robin because it is a 4-cycle and causes less problems for my hands and arms (less vibration). Also quieter and better for the environment.

If you do a lot of reading here you may get the impression that you aren't really a pro unless you have a larger mower. This is an illusion. The big mower scene is a whole different deal. There are some large lawns that could (and maybe should) be mowed with large mowers, but the vast majority of residential lawn mowing is done with 21" mowers. The big mowers are more appropriate for other types of accounts. If a 21" mower was unprofessional, there wouldn't be dozens of expensive high-quality commercial models availabe. Since I have been in the business, I have noticed things I did not notice before. Like the hundred or so pickups driving alll over my town pulling trailers full of commercial 21" mowers. (I don't use a trailer either) I have only once seen a large mower on a residential lawn. It was a small lawn and it looked ridiculous (though I admit, it didn't take long). I see the big machines mowing the college campus and the grass next to roads and highways. Many people make all the money they need with 21" mowers.

Someone here once gave some advice to a new guy - don't let anyone tell you you have do things a certain way. That's one of the great things about this business - you can do whatever you want to. My best advice would be to not limit yourself to mowing. Trim hedges, do some light tree trimming, weed garden beds, learn about gardening, learn about landscaping, haul junk to the dump, whatever comes up. I get a lot of business from people who tell me that they can't get their mowers to trim a hedge or do anything but mow.

Always get the best equipment you can afford and yes you should have 2 of everything. I'll get another mower as soon as this one needs some major work. When you use the good stuff it is less risky not to have a backup, but still a good idea.

Good luck!

[bubble boy]

XOFMOT- lawrence stone has a good point. why am i always at the furthest point from the shop in my route when my stuff breaks down? Stupid me still hates carrying extra stuff. why not keep your residential 21" as backup, buy a 21" toro. Will do a better job faster. When you get your # of customers up, move up to a WB. Man, it's easy to spend when it aint your $! But you say you have it to spend.

Bigger problem than looking unproifessional with the 21" is that you will be billing essentially for time, and the guy with the bigger mower can get in and out faster than you, thus offer a better price. And he can easily make up the difference in mower prices due to his high volume. At least that is what i found when i started with 21". I now run a 33" and plan on at least a 48" next spring.

One final thought- nice wheels, but if you plow be careful. Blew the tranny in our 1/2 ton ram last winter,took 20 hours with our 2500 silverado to finish up the list. The chevy never flinched. I'll never buy less than a 3/4 ton again.

[Lawn Wizard]

Residential customers by and far care about quality ( actually all customers care about quality) I am in the same boat as you XOF. Got tired of working for the man so I decided to go out on my own with much of the same equipment that you listed.

I personally think that when the time comes that you have soooo many accounts that a 21 " push just wont do it any longer thats when you go buy all the nice equipment.

I started this year with 0 cutomers and now have 17. I planned my route to be right around my area to save on time so I get done at about noon everyday. Yes everything you own will break on you so be prepared for that. But I just dont see why you should buy all sorts of equipment at this point.

If your in this for the long haul build up your customer base and then move onto the commercial equipment.

Good Luck!

[CSRA Landscaping]

Awm and Stone have hit the nail on the head. You will work much harder than you would with the equipment that you have now, versus the commercial grade equipment. And you will also get results that are somewhat below par, in my opinion. But, good luck!

[KirbysLawn]

Just consider buying a used ($1500) mower, maybe 48" and go from there, that's what I did and it worked out fine. I would not start mowing lawns the size we have here with a 21", sorry I wouldn't do it.

Ray

[1MajorTom]

Quote: I get a lot of business from people who tell me that they can't get their mowers to trim a hedge or do anything but mow.

Ain't that the truth!

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom
Quote: I get a lot of business from people who tell me that they can't get their mowers to trim a hedge or do anything but mow.

Ain't that the truth!

LOL, I think he meant landscaper. At least I hope he did, I can get my mowers to do hedges yet either! :confused:

[1MajorTom]

LOL.

No, no, no, no.

I don't think we are on the same page here Ray.

I took that quote to mean that the companies that cut grass don't want to do other stuff like hedges.
And I'm agreeing. We get so many calls from people that already have someone to cut their grass, but they can't get them to trim their hedges. Around here, a lot of grass cutters just don't touch hedges.
That's what I meant.

[yardmonkey]

Yes that's what I meant. And I have been amazed at how many people have told me this. One reason not to limit yourself to mowing is that when you make it known that you will do other things and as you acquire the skills and tools to do other things, you have plenty of work year-round. And there are also a lot of people who prefer to have one person "take care of their yard" rather than having to call different people for different things. It can make for more interesting days also. I have no great knowledge of gardening or landscaping but I am gradually learning as I go. last week I learned all about bearded irises. Little old ladies taught me all about them. I also know people I can consult with and then there are books and websites. When I started to encounter poison ivy last year I read up on it. Now people are impressed when I point out the poison ivy in their yards (its all over the place here). I know a lot of people prefer to just mow and you can make a lot of money at it, but there are many ways to "do this thing".

[powerreel]

If you can get the accounts, I feel it's late in the year but..., get the accounts and upgrade. If you don't get the accounts and go under like most do you aren't out lot's of $$$$. Good luck, and rejoice in the odds being against you- if you are a bad *ss you'll make it- if you're a wooss you're toast by Labor Day! Nice truck, if you go under and need some cash I will loan on the title, maybe.

[Charles]

We have heard all this before " I am tired of working for the man" I am tired of punching a clock" yada yada yada. Most of us here do punch an imaginary clock. I worked from 8 am until 6:30pm today and 8 til 6 most every day 5 days a week and give estimates on saturday as well as do maintenance. No benefits to this job either and you have many bosses and alot of them are a pain in the azz and soem are no trouble. But you still have to ANSWER to them.
Homeowners equipment will drive you crazy with downtime and maintenance. Listen to Lawrence a man with experience like the rest of us longtimers. If you are not dependable you are not a commercial contractor. And to be dependable you need heavy duty equipment. Homeowner junk cant stand up to the volume you need to do to make a living. 2 or 3 of everything is mandatory. You may cruise along for the first year and then stuff will probably start falling apart if you have a good amount of business. But you will waists the first few year with loss production with the homeowner craptman junk

[65hoss]

Basically your describing what we've all been talking about recently. All the people running around with garden tractors on little trailers or 21" mowers in the back of trucks. They buy this equipment and then decide to cut a few other lawns also. There is nothing wrong with this, the problem lies in other areas.

Here is the truth:
The craftsman 21" can't compare on quality of cut.
People that start like this usually don't know what their expenses are and end up charging too little for cutting. Then when they quit as soon as it gets hot the homeowner calls someone else and we have to hear how the last guy cut it for $25 bucks.
99% of these type of cutter don't carry insurance or pay taxes.
The quality of their work shows.

This is not to say this is where you are. This is what we and homeowners see all the time. If you invest correctly you will look professional. This doesn't mean you have to get bigger machines. If you want to tap the small postage size lawns with 21" mowers then go for it. There is a high end residential market to be tapped there. You will find some accounts over time. Since your pt, you shouldn't worry about finding lots of customers quick. Invest and start looking. Your going to build your business at a slower rate and thats great. Just do it correctly and be profitable. Otherwise your just getting excersize.

[KirbysLawn]

Hoss, very well said and correct! http://www.lawnsite.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Jodi, just messin, it sounded funny so I thought I would have a little fun. Sorry, I got to go, I'm having trouble getting my 21" mower lifted up to the hedges...

[MATTHEW]

Hey, some real good advice given above!!! I see some
guys around here doing it. You do need 2 good mowers.
I would have 1 self propelled and 1 push.22" to push.
You really do need better stuff.Trimmer & blower too.
Just do mini lawns. Sure, just stick with mini's for
now. Most of us bigger guys do not want them anyway.
Think about it. If you do 3 mini's an hour,and charge
$15.00 that is $45.00/hr. Charge $20.00, then it's
$60.00/hr.That is pretty darn good, if you ask me.
I do larger ones, I have a 44", and I get between
$30.00-$45.00/hr.Also you should stick your ground
and stay in one specific area. Drive time can kill
your profits. GOOD LUCK!!!:blob3:

[XOFMOT]

THANKS HOSS:D

Thats my plan, start this part time and grow into it. I need to do a little bit more research, but the area I'm in is FULL of these "POSTAGE STAMP" size lots that seem to be getting overlooked by area LCO's. Whether I want those types of accounts, I'm not sure. It sounds like an area that needs attention and I WILL check into this type of customer ASAP!

One more quick question..I know there is alot of "QUALITY" 21" mowers out there....I still need to check into them, but go with SELF PROPELLED? or not? Thanks again to all who have helped me in my quest for FREEDOM

[jones]

X,
Yes there are ALOT of "postage stmp" sized lots that are overlooked by LCO's and there's big $$$ to be made doing them. You can do alot of this with a good 21, we can do 6 an hour at $20 per if they're in a row and the gods are smiling. Try the Lawnboy Comm, it's the most versatile 21 because you can sideblow almost anything with it. If you're doing these props don't be suckered into buying anything bigger than a 36.

[gogetter]

Around here, a lot of grass cutters just don't touch hedges.


Heck, I really like trimming hedges. Easy money and I actually enjoy it. Wish the grass cutters around here would send me thier hedge jobs!!!

[lawrence stone]

X

The machine you need is for sale at bargaintraderonline.com

It's a 32" Walkbehind Toro for $900 in Buffalo NY.

It cuts 2x more than a 21 and gets thru the gates.
Add a sulky and you could do 1/2 acre+ homesites.

The newer ones have 12.5 kohler engines older models had
11 and 12 hp B&S. That's a lot of power to spin just one
32" blade.

[geogunn]

ho---leee crap! what is all of this?!

I say if you can hustle lawns with your 21 in. crapsman, go for it!

my only advise is to hustle legally, which is pay your taxes, city, township, burrough, state and federal or whatever. after that...if you can make money doing it, there aint much that smells sweeter than fresh cut grass on your sneakers at the end of the day!

good luck to you! go for it!

GEO

[jones]

Lawrence,
Unless that 32 is a hydro, which it isn't, and has a floating deck, which it doesn't, X is better off with a 21LB.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Jones, try posting some reasons that he'd be better off with a 21" as opposed to a 36". Just the thought of having another foot+ would be enough for me, as well as being commercial equipment ...

[jones]

CSRA,
Lawrence was referring to a 32 not a 36. For the props X is talking about you need a floater unless you can cut 2.5 or higher all the time, and you need hydro because you're doing ALOT of reverse moves and tight manouvers. Belts and fixed decks don't work on these props and the 32's have both.

[CSRA Landscaping]

Ok, I was off by 4". :rolleyes:
I cut most of mine at 3". I would think that the added potential for productivity would be enough of a reason to go with the larger machine. Show me any 21" that you can ride behind. If you just like doing manual labor, go with the smaller one, in my opinion. Otherwise, like Stone said, go with the larger one for increased productivity. I bought a 48" and wish I'd have gotten a 52" or 61".

[jones]

CSRA,
There is no "added potential for productivity" with the larger machine on those props. I have a 36 floating hydro and it stays in the trailer most times. And yes I know how to use it.
I would love to see you try and ride around the props X is talking about.

[CSRA Landscaping]

I think we should drop this line of converstaion before we go into undesirable waters.

[jones]

I'm glad you agree with me.

[geogunn]

MRRRKK!!! that is the sound I make when it is time for me to move on.

let's all meet down on the river(Tenessee River at Calhouns, of course)and raise a glass. I'll buy!

GEO

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by jones
I'm glad you agree with me.

Agree?? CSRA didn't agree, he asked that it be dropped before it goes further, please do so without provoking.

Ray

[lawnman_scott]

I wouldnt go out and spend all that money before you evan have one single customer. Wait a bit and see how it goes. Many people started with homewoner equipment. You will have problems, and will have to upgrade it soon, but at least wait till you see what you need. Good luck, its a great business if you do it right. Just dont go and do estimates with your equipment, that truck will help you look good.

[Toroguy]

Start up facts vs. Lawrence Stone® and others reasoning:

$100 crappy mower, make it 3 months, total $30 per month. Chuck it over the fence, whatever, leave on the lawn if your a real hack.

New Exmark at $3000 over 100 months= 30 crappy mowers or 8 years of $30/mo. payments.

I do not advocate homeowner equipment, but add it up before you condemn.

This does not equate "sweat equity" or hour per acre. It can be done if your crazy enough or fit enough.

But to start...

[KD'sLawns]

If I were in the same boat as you and had the cash, I would purchase at least one commercial 21". Many dealers will have specials on last years models just to get rid of them. You may be able to pick up a $1100.00 mower for about $800.00. This would be a good investment not only for your business, but for you personally. It is not a tremendous amount of money and if you do not pick up a ton of customers then you can always use the equipment on your own lawn without too much of an investment. From the sound of things, you have never used commercial equipment so you do not know the difference that it can make. Mow with a commercial 21" and you will never want to touch your Craftsman again. Also, my opinion about the push or self propelled is that I always go for the S.P.. Walking 5-8 yards a day with a 21" S.P. is hard enough, I could not imagine pushing a mower though all of those lawns. Make your work the easiest that you can on yourself. Good Luck!

[Double D]

I was somewhat like you last summer. I started part-time in the middle of the summer. I distributed some flyers throughout my neighborhood, and had homeowner quality equipment (33"Craftsman widecut mower,Craftsman convertable trimmer w/edger attachment, Craftsman backpack blower, Craftsman 22" mulching mower). All but the Craftsman widecut mower was equipment that I allready owned. I got about 5 accounts right off the bat, and that was enough to get my feet wet. My only investment was the 33" mower ($999) and I could use it on my 1/2 acre yard, and a 5x8 trailer with gate. I always did a good job on the few accounts that I had, and always showed up when I said that I would (easy when you have only 5 accounts). I learned some hard lessons about getting yards into shape that had not been taking care of properly. That was then. This year here is my lineup of equipment (52" Snapper Hydro, 21" Honda HRB216, 21" Kubota WD21, Redmax eb7000 blower, Kawasaki trimmer, Kawasaki stick edger, 61/2'x12' trailer). The Craftsman widecut mower does not even get loaded on the trailer. I feel that I can cut faster with the Honda 21" than with the 33" Craftsman (faster ground speed and no double cutting). I am still part-time but I now have 18 accounts one of which is a large Commercial account. I have done no more advertising since those first few flyers that I distributed, and have picked up all the other accounts by word of mouth advertising. I have turned down 20-30 more accounts because I will not charge less than what the job is worth just to get the business. I have found that I am actually a little more expensive than the bigger 3-man crews that cover up the areas that I work. The point of all my ramblings is, that you can start out small with what you have. If you enjoy yourself, and think you might want to do it again next year start putting the homeowner equip. to a backup role, and replace it with Comm. quality equipment. There really is no comparison between the Comm. and homeowner type of equipment. I would also visit the insurance man and get some insurance. Drop me a PM and I will let you know how much I paid for mine (very cheap for what you get), and the name of the company if you are interesed. Test the water with what you have, and if you like the way it feels, jump in and enjoy! Peace.