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tacoma200
10-31-2006, 08:03 PM
Just wanting some feedback on this engine. If you run one I would like to hear your reports on preformance. Fuel economy (already heard one bad report), reliability, power, Kawasaki service, etc. Am I right in assuming its the 27 hp basically souped up a bit with the DFI?

MOW PRO LAWN SERVICE
10-31-2006, 08:20 PM
Are you buying a tt.

Envy Lawn Service
10-31-2006, 08:25 PM
2 gallons per hour fuel consumption is what my digging turned up.
Can't say rather it is true or not though.

tacoma200
10-31-2006, 08:27 PM
Are you buying a tt.
I'm keeping my options open. It will be a while before I buy. I would like to have more power than the 29 but Kaw has a good reputation. Still not 100% on the Vanguard wagon. But after using both, no doubt the Vanguard has a tremendous power advantage, but is it as reliable? Or is the DFI reliable for that matter. After all the home work I did last time still made a mistake so I'm just sitting back learning all I can. No buying mowers in the winter for me, just a little investigating. Wonder what the price difference is between this and the big block Vanguards?

LB1234
10-31-2006, 08:39 PM
We've have one on our 61" TT.

Absolutely love it. No compliants what so ever. I've never really did any type of formal fuel consumption calculation. Everytime we jot down the hours we forget when we fill it to calculate the gallons per hour. We keep meaning to do it but never follow through...

Reliability...tough to say. We've owned it since june/july of '05 so there is not much of a track record there. It starts when I want it to. Although a little more difficult with the colder weather. Have to put the throttle up a little higher and it takes two cranks instead of one...no biggie. Only first thing in the morning, after that its ready to go basically the rest of the day.

We did have a 'stator' (SP?) go on it earlier this year which was under warranty. No questions asked. After looking at it my dealer said he was going to call the kawi rep. He called back and said no problems its under warranty won't cost you a dime. No big deal couple days out of service...three I think. Knock on wood no other problems. So therefore service for us was good.

As far as power is concerned it has plenty of it. It can handle thick, wet springtime grass with one pass. Rarely do we have to perform two passes...maybe on one or two sections never the entire lawn. That is with the stock blades on it.

I believe were the power really shows is on our hills. It handles them really well. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have to slow down but again these are pretty decent size inclines.

Currently we have a set of high lifts on the TT that we use along with our soft bagger. Works really well. This is were (IMHO) the engine really pulls through. It never leaves any trails cause of the suction/vacuum that is created and it packs that thing to the gills. However, with this combo going up the incline the mower will come to nearly a crawl. I don't know what would happen with a smaller engine. Don't get me wrong...it still cuts well...its just really slow going at the top of the hill. But again, no trails or need for a second pass.

As far as the 'its a souped up 27 with DFI'...

Before we purchased the TT we had a demo unit of a 61" TT with 29 LC/EFI kawi and a TORO 61" with 27HP Kohler. TORO wasn't willing to demo any bigger engine...made my decision even easier that SCAG (really my dealer) was willing to demo me a TT with the combination I wanted whereas TORO said all that we can do is demo you a 27 kohler...anyway...not the point.

We (brother & I) had these two mowers side by side for about a half days worth of cutting. They both performed really well on the first few accounts. When we drove to the next two accounts with the hills...they didn't even compare. We started them both at the bottom and worked our way up. The TT with the 29 kawi literally pulled away from the 27 kohler up the hill...both with blades engaged...especially with the blades disengaged. It wasn't even close. And, yes, the cut was fine for the both of them. There was no clear cut winner in that department in our opinion.

Hope this helped some/any

Envy Lawn Service
10-31-2006, 08:39 PM
I'm keeping my options open. It will be a while before I buy. I would like to have more power than the 29 but Kaw has a good reputation. Still not 100% on the Vanguard wagon. But after using both, no doubt the Vanguard has a tremendous power advantage, but is it as reliable? Or is the DFI reliable for that matter. After all the home work I did last time still made a mistake so I'm just sitting back learning all I can. No buying mowers in the winter for me, just a little investigating.

Me...

I would go for the briggs... maybe even the air cooled version.
I'd have to have the numbers on them to decide on this one.
(this is a rare thing for me)

I'm totally clueless about Scag pricing, but if they are like most, I have trouble justifying the L/C V-Twin pricing because a 3 cylinder L/C diesel can usually be had for little more... and when I look at the overall cost effectiveness it's hard to see going L/C gas.

Lawnworks
10-31-2006, 08:40 PM
29hp not enough?? good lord man. I have had the big hp mowers and I will never buy one again... it just doesn't make sense to me. The higher hp motor costs up to 2k more and it will burn .5-1gph more. This really really adds up when a mower is mowing 40 hours a week every week. My crews had a 28 efi hustler 60" and I have replaced it w/ 23hp 60" and there is very little difference in power, but a whole lotta difference in price. 35hp is for bush hogging if you ask me.

I would just get the 27 kohler TT. I have an '06 TT w/ 27 kohler and it has plenty of power, it is reliable, and gets good gas mileage. The one thing that scares me on the LC is the radiator... one more thing to go wrong and maintain.

tacoma200
10-31-2006, 08:44 PM
2 gallons per hour fuel consumption is what my digging turned up.
Can't say rather it is true or not though.
2 GPH, I think that was what Shady Brook came up with using one. I was hoping that it was an isolated problem and not the norm for the DFI which claims fuel economy as one of it's strong points. If the 2 GPH is true then it gets much worse than my carbuarated Kohler with very little extra torque. I like the Kaw reputation for reliability but so far I've seen very few positives that would make this engine worth trying. 745 cc with 44.3 lbs of torque is nothing to brag about on paper anyway. And like I have said in previous post we played around with both engines at Expo and the big blocks would take off with full stick without loosing rpms while the Kaw would drop and take awhile to catch up. Well really it never did catch up to the big block Vanguards. I wonder why I hadn't been hearing much about this engine. Too many changes going on right now, especially with Kohler coming out with big blocks. Wonder who will use them? Scag and Exmark seem to be locked in with the Vanguards and who knows about the reliability of a new engine. They certainly didn't do their home work with the 30 Hp Kohlers.

LB1234
10-31-2006, 08:47 PM
-BTW, we purchased our 61" TT w/rear soft bagger and the 29 LC/EFI kawi for 12k. I believe the bagger was right around 2k installed. So the mower itself was about 10k.

tacoma200
10-31-2006, 09:02 PM
29hp not enough?? good lord man. I have had the big hp mowers and I will never buy one again... it just doesn't make sense to me. The higher hp motor costs up to 2k more and it will burn .5-1gph more. This really really adds up when a mower is mowing 40 hours a week every week. My crews had a 28 efi hustler 60" and I have replaced it w/ 23hp 60" and there is very little difference in power, but a whole lotta difference in price. 35hp is for bush hogging if you ask me.

I would just get the 27 kohler TT. I have an '06 TT w/ 27 kohler and it has plenty of power, it is reliable, and gets good gas mileage. The one thing that scares me on the LC is the radiator... one more thing to go wrong and maintain.
(Bushhogging) Well after two weeks here thats about what I do alot of the time. I have to be able to clean up abandoned real estate, bi-weekly's, and normal weekly lawns on the same trip. Spring growth will strain even a 27 hp on some of my weekly accounts. The last mower I bought, the 27hp/60" Super Z could definitely used some more ponies. My conditions are probably not typical of most suburban type mowing that most of you do. I get called for all types of stuff and have one guy that runs a bush hog for me on a by the job basis. I spent the weekend in Louisville and watched alot of the lawn care guys there work. It's a totally different ball game there. They use alot of WB's, push mowers, and small ZTR's. The lots are smaller and alot more complex than what I am used to and they have to haul alot of different equipment for all these task. Lots of curb jumping. All I need is a big ZTR, trimmers, blowers, etc. Small ZTR's and WB's are pretty much nonexistent here. Diesel Grasshoppers are the most popular, followed by big Scag ZTR's. Average lots may run .5-2 acres. 10-14 day accounts make up more than half of my business and we get over and inch of rain per week on average (55" per year). My first Exmark (great little mower) was a 23hp/60" cut and was I ever miserable trying to cut this thick stuff. Made for a long day. Your right about the radiator, could be one more problem. That's why I'm asking I guess.

Envy Lawn Service
10-31-2006, 09:13 PM
29hp not enough?? good lord man. I have had the big hp mowers and I will never buy one again... it just doesn't make sense to me. The higher hp motor costs up to 2k more and it will burn .5-1gph more. This really really adds up when a mower is mowing 40 hours a week every week. My crews had a 28 efi hustler 60" and I have replaced it w/ 23hp 60" and there is very little difference in power, but a whole lotta difference in price. 35hp is for bush hogging if you ask me.

I would just get the 27 kohler TT. I have an '06 TT w/ 27 kohler and it has plenty of power, it is reliable, and gets good gas mileage. The one thing that scares me on the LC is the radiator... one more thing to go wrong and maintain.

Well there you go... there is a guy who doesn't mind to say what he really thinks on here.

So please... by all means tell me... what is the REAL TRUTH about the 28hp Kohler EFI fuel consumption?

I'd like to know how much fuel it honestly burns per hour.

tacoma200
10-31-2006, 09:28 PM
Well there you go... there is a guy who doesn't mind to say what he really thinks on here.

So please... by all means tell me... what is the REAL TRUTH about the 28hp Kohler EFI fuel consumption?

I'd like to know how much fuel it honestly burns per hour.
By all means speak your mind, that's what we want. You really can't learn without honest input. Say what you want, it's not going to hurt my feelings. I just started this post to learn a little about this engine (good and bad).

lawnspecialties
10-31-2006, 09:46 PM
Not exactly the 29 DFI but I always prefer the liquid-cooled engines over air-cooled. My 26 hp Kawasaki is approaching 600 hours and she still purrs just as smooth as day one.

Not that this is scientific or anything but "back in the day of my youth" (early 90's), I used to race quads. Without a doubt, the liquid-cooled engines put out more power than the air-cooled ones and were just as durable if not more. Especially when the going got hot. I guess that's my biggest bias toward anti-freeze. With the quads and with now my second liquid-cooled Kawasaki, I've never had a problem with the cooling system and have never heard of one as well. Air-cooled engines are great but you don't exactly see too many threads talking about cooling system problems on liquid-cooled engines.
:)

MJB
10-31-2006, 10:27 PM
Not exactly the 29 DFI but I always prefer the liquid-cooled engines over air-cooled. My 26 hp Kawasaki is approaching 600 hours and she still purrs just as smooth as day one.

Not that this is scientific or anything but "back in the day of my youth" (early 90's), I used to race quads. Without a doubt, the liquid-cooled engines put out more power than the air-cooled ones and were just as durable if not more. Especially when the going got hot. I guess that's my biggest bias toward anti-freeze. With the quads and with now my second liquid-cooled Kawasaki, I've never had a problem with the cooling system and have never heard of one as well. Air-cooled engines are great but you don't exactly see too many threads talking about cooling system problems on liquid-cooled engines.
:)

I totally agree with using the L/C versus air. I've had more than 2 of each and the liquid has never been a problem and lasts longer. I would have to buy 2 air cooled to 1 liquid as long as there taken care of. I don't have to do any extra maintenance really either. Change the antifreeze and hoses every few yrs. Power wise these are more than sufficient for most applications. Only Hustlers seem to need more power because of their pumps. So if you don't buy a Hustler you should be fine with a 26 L/C Kawi.

twj721
10-31-2006, 11:29 PM
Just wanting some feedback on this engine. If you run one I would like to hear your reports on preformance. Fuel economy (already heard one bad report), reliability, power, Kawasaki service, etc. Am I right in assuming its the 27 hp basically souped up a bit with the DFI?

I have one in a Scag Turf tiger with the 61 advantage deck and it averages a little bit below 1.0 gal hr I have I think close to 500 hrs on this mower and no problems yet and very powerful

Envy Lawn Service
11-01-2006, 12:11 AM
I have one in a Scag Turf tiger with the 61 advantage deck and it averages a little bit below 1.0 gal hr I have I think close to 500 hrs on this mower and no problems yet and very powerful

Wow... no kidding???

All I have heard and read is about what PIGS they are on fuel even though they shouldn't be with fuel injection and liquid cooling.

twj721
11-01-2006, 12:20 AM
for the stuff that I cut I am very impressed by the fue use I also have a Briggs /dathasui in a 31 hp 3 cyl gas engine and it does nearly as goo d but the best of them all is my 31 HP turbo Datsui diesel that is a engine with a serious steriod problem it loves grass if you can roll over it it can mow it down

Lawnworks
11-01-2006, 06:48 AM
Well there you go... there is a guy who doesn't mind to say what he really thinks on here.

So please... by all means tell me... what is the REAL TRUTH about the 28hp Kohler EFI fuel consumption?

I'd like to know how much fuel it honestly burns per hour.

I think the 28efi is close to 1gph. I don't have any definate data, but it seems like the mower can run almost all day before they have to switch tanks. So that would be a solid 6-8 hours of mower running time per 6 gallons. The 28efi is probably the best engine I have ever owned... but now I am buying cheaper models and trading them in sooner.

tacoma200
11-01-2006, 05:59 PM
I'm not sure if it applies to this engine or not but the Kawasaki website claims if you use thier oil only (4 cycle) they will double the engine warranty. This sounds like a good deal if true. Here is what they say:

Purchase a 6-pack of Kawasaki 4-cycle oil and the term of the engine warranty will be doubled for free. Applies to all Kawasaki 4-cycle general purpose engines and all lawn and garden equipment powered by a Kawasaki 4-cycle engine (extended warranty applies to internal engine components).

1. Purchase a 6-pack of Kawasaki 4-cycle oil.

2. Dealer completes and mails the Double Warranty registration card.

3. Use Kawasaki 4-cycle oil exclusively during the entire warranty period.

Kawasaki 4-cycle oil is specifi cally engineered to provide maximum engine protection and performance in your new equipment. Its continued use will provide Double Warranty coverage, as well as superior lubrication protection every time you operate your machine.

Kawasaki’s Double Warranty 4-cycle oil is available exclusively through authorized Kawasaki Engines sales and service dealers. See your local Kawasaki Engines/Power Products dealer for details and complete terms and conditions.

Lawnworks
11-01-2006, 06:38 PM
I'm not sure if it applies to this engine or not but the Kawasaki website claims if you use thier oil only (4 cycle) they will double the engine warranty. This sounds like a good deal if true. Here is what they say:

Purchase a 6-pack of Kawasaki 4-cycle oil and the term of the engine warranty will be doubled for free. Applies to all Kawasaki 4-cycle general purpose engines and all lawn and garden equipment powered by a Kawasaki 4-cycle engine (extended warranty applies to internal engine components).

1. Purchase a 6-pack of Kawasaki 4-cycle oil.

2. Dealer completes and mails the Double Warranty registration card.

3. Use Kawasaki 4-cycle oil exclusively during the entire warranty period.

Kawasaki 4-cycle oil is specifi cally engineered to provide maximum engine protection and performance in your new equipment. Its continued use will provide Double Warranty coverage, as well as superior lubrication protection every time you operate your machine.

Kawasaki’s Double Warranty 4-cycle oil is available exclusively through authorized Kawasaki Engines sales and service dealers. See your local Kawasaki Engines/Power Products dealer for details and complete terms and conditions.

So the engine warranty is for 4 years?? That would be a great deal.

rob1325
11-01-2006, 08:38 PM
I would get the 29 DFI if I had to do it again. I have a Scag TT 35 HP liquid cooled and around 600 hours the head cracked. Took a month to get parts in and fixed. IMO, I do not like the time it took to get parts from Briggs and question now durability of the motor. All the liquid cooled Kawis I had never gave me problems and parts are quick to be had. Also, the power of the 35HP IMO is not needed on 61" unless you use spindle vac alot or bigger deck. The 35 also, eats gas and you do not use full potential of that motor enough IMO. I wish there were DFI or EFI liquid cooled engines in the 30 to 35 range, then atleast it would save on gas.

Envy Lawn Service
11-01-2006, 09:07 PM
So the engine warranty is for 4 years?? That would be a great deal.

Well, last I checked it was Opti-4 oil and the extra warranty was limited to oil related failure.

Now I am a fan of Opti-2.... but have you seen the price on a bottle of any of this oil??????? And it's only 20 ounce bottles to boot... With the amount of hours we would log and the amount of oil changes, it costs so much for their oil that it would be cheaper to just buy a new engine.

I posted the exact math on here somewhere several years ago.

tacoma200
11-02-2006, 08:22 AM
Well, last I checked it was Opti-4 oil and the extra warranty was limited to oil related failure.

Now I am a fan of Opti-2.... but have you seen the price on a bottle of any of this oil??????? And it's only 20 ounce bottles to boot... With the amount of hours we would log and the amount of oil changes, it costs so much for their oil that it would be cheaper to just buy a new engine.

I posted the exact math on here somewhere several years ago.

Well if it sounds too good to be true... then it probably is. Figured there was a catch.