PDA

View Full Version : poly pipes question


silvercvic
11-02-2006, 04:56 PM
I was wondering if there is a limit on how long a poly line should be run, rather than dig across 20 ft of grass, is it possible to use poly over PVC?

Also, would it be possible to run PVC -to- poly -to- PVC?

Flow Control
11-02-2006, 06:23 PM
I was wondering if there is a limit on how long a poly line should be run, rather than dig across 20 ft of grass, is it possible to use poly over PVC?

Also, would it be possible to run PVC -to- poly -to- PVC?

1. Your fine
2. Poly to PVC your fine if on a mainline use a master

Mjtrole
11-02-2006, 06:26 PM
I was wondering if there is a limit on how long a poly line should be run, rather than dig across 20 ft of grass, is it possible to use poly over PVC?

Also, would it be possible to run PVC -to- poly -to- PVC?

You could run poly to pvc a hundred times it wouldn't make a difference, I am assuming a residential so just keep the pipe sizes the same.

silvercvic
11-02-2006, 08:15 PM
do they have 1" poly?

Is there a secret pro method in pulling poly, or do you recommend just trenching?

Wet_Boots
11-02-2006, 09:52 PM
They have all sizes of poly

bobw
11-03-2006, 03:11 AM
Around here (and location dictates an awful lot), we just plow poly in the ground. In fact, we don't use PVC on residential systems at all. I'd use poly on commercial, but by the time you get to 2", it is about 3x the cost of PVC; at 1", the cost is pretty much the same.

kozmo
11-03-2006, 07:07 AM
I was wondering if there is a limit on how long a poly line should be run, rather than dig across 20 ft of grass, is it possible to use poly over PVC?

Also, would it be possible to run PVC -to- poly -to- PVC?


Are you referring to funny pipe rather then poly I don't under stand the digging part oris it just a pulling issue.

silvercvic
11-03-2006, 10:21 AM
Are you referring to funny pipe rather then poly I don't under stand the digging part oris it just a pulling issue.

For the 20ft part, I meant funny pipe.

kozmo
11-03-2006, 11:01 AM
I'm not a big advocate of funny pipe although it dose serve its purpose, in certain instances. 20ft i would not let my guys do. when it comes to maintenance later on it can be annoying. Having funny pipe connection 20ft away is not my idea of fun when looking for a clog from a breached line.

silvercvic
11-03-2006, 11:42 AM
As far as a tool as a pipe puller, how does one of those things work?

PurpHaze
11-03-2006, 10:27 PM
Funny pipe and barbed fittings don't hold up very well on our systems and are not specified in any of our contracts. Just ask the contractor who is currently having to dig every one of them up on a new system and replace them. :dizzy:

Hank Reardon
11-04-2006, 01:47 AM
Purp, is it a pressure issue? We use the Lightning Blue connectors coupled with a Marlex ell and haven't seen them come off.

Dirty Water
11-04-2006, 02:04 AM
The Blue Lightening connectors WILL not come off.

I think purp is dealing with rainrapes incompetence using straight barb connectors instead of the twisted helix, and they are probably not inserted all the way in.

Plus, they might even be using that crappy thin swing pipe.

PurpHaze
11-04-2006, 02:02 PM
Purp, is it a pressure issue? We use the Lightning Blue connectors coupled with a Marlex ell and haven't seen them come off.

I really don't know what it is Hank but barbed fittings fail miserably on our systems. That includes different pressures and volumes and different contractors. That's why we've specified our type of swing joints for so long.

I think purp is dealing with rainrapes incompetence using straight barb connectors instead of the twisted helix, and they are probably not inserted all the way in.

As much as I'd like to blame RainRape for this the contractor was a different one on the install.

Dirty Water
11-04-2006, 04:47 PM
We got a shipment of "EasyBend" swing pipe made by International pipe because it was a few cents per foot cheaper than the Hunter swing pipe.

I could push a Blue Lightening connector straight in (They need to be twisted) on this stuff, and I could pull it right back out. I think a lot of your swing pipe failures stem from using the wrong swing pipe and wrong fittings.

All of the EasyBend was returned to our distributor that next week.

PurpHaze
11-05-2006, 12:16 PM
We got a shipment of "EasyBend" swing pipe made by International pipe because it was a few cents per foot cheaper than the Hunter swing pipe.

I could push a Blue Lightening connector straight in (They need to be twisted) on this stuff, and I could pull it right back out. I think a lot of your swing pipe failures stem from using the wrong swing pipe and wrong fittings.

All of the EasyBend was returned to our distributor that next week.

Hmmmm.... And MIPT Marlex/SCH 80 nipples always thread into FIPT Marlex or SCH 40 PVC fittings and don't pop out. In fact... the only problem we run across is an occasional Marlex 90 that eventually splits from someone getting TOO aggressive and overtightening during fabrication of the swing joints not believing that Marlex meshes to PVC threads and doesn't need Teflon tape.

Flow Control
11-05-2006, 12:22 PM
we clamp all of our barb to funny pipe elbows, that would have prevented rainrapes problem down the road.

Dirty Water
11-05-2006, 12:33 PM
we clamp all of our barb to funny pipe elbows, that would have prevented rainrapes problem down the road.

Thats just a waste of time.

Digging up a clamped funny pipe barb is pretty similiar to seeing tefloned hose threads or marlex. Signs that someone clueless is doing it.

BSME
11-05-2006, 12:41 PM
I can see it as a nice upsell... sometimes homeowners get nervous when they are standing over your shoulder...

"why didn't you clamp that one?"

Dirty Water
11-05-2006, 12:49 PM
I can see it as a nice upsell... sometimes homeowners get nervous when they are standing over your shoulder...

"why didn't you clamp that one?"

Perhaps since I do PVC and I don't have clamps everywhere it is different.

However, A simple "you don't need to" is fine. Why upsell something that is not neccessary? Thats more like ripping off.

Wet_Boots
11-05-2006, 12:58 PM
Clamping swing pipe is kind of like admitting you aren't choosing the best products.

silvercvic
11-06-2006, 12:12 AM
Thats just a waste of time.

Digging up a clamped funny pipe barb is pretty similiar to seeing tefloned hose threads or marlex. Signs that someone clueless is doing it.

What is wrong with tefloning hose threads?

Wet_Boots
11-06-2006, 08:38 AM
A hose fitting is sealed by the washer, and not the (non-tapered) threads - ever see teflon tape on the straight threads of a water meter? That being said, it doesn't harm anything, and just might (really stretching here) delay or prevent a drip, if things begin to loosen up. Call it 'good ju-ju' and let it go.

PurpHaze
11-06-2006, 09:27 AM
Clamping swing pipe is kind of like admitting you aren't choosing the best products.

The last clamps I ran into were at one site where the LA spec'd out hardpiped SCH 80 nipples rising out of planters and having a shrub bubbler or spray on them. I tried to reason with the higher ups that this was a trip factor and was told "architects know what they're doing" and dropped it. The SCH 80 nipples were clamped in two places to long pieces of rebar driven into the ground. They're now all gone and converted to swing joints and pop-ups because two people tripped over them within the first year and fell flat on their faces. :dizzy:

Flow Control
11-06-2006, 09:40 AM
Clamping swing pipe is kind of like admitting you aren't choosing the best products.

No offense taken, but I would disagree and would rather state the actual fact for clamping the barb fitting as why not take the extra time and money during the installation and do it? You clamp your poly fittings! If I were to build a house there would be certain small things I would want done and that is how I look at clamping the barbed elbows.

Hank Reardon
11-06-2006, 10:08 AM
Standard poly fittings don't have the double helix the Lasco ells posses, correct? I've tried to pull apart the Toro Super Funny Pipe with a Lasco ell installed (all the way up to the ell as the directions indicate) and couldn't get them apart.

I was unable to locate any specification on the PSI rating (due to the fact they don't manufacture the Funny Pipe) however their site shows installing them without hose clamps. I don't know how many years my company has been using them but we have had no failures whatsoever.

http://www.lascofittings.com/SupportCenter/BlueTwisterInstall.asp

It's not a matter of time and money with us as all installs are T&M. If they were required, we would clamp them.

Wet_Boots
11-06-2006, 10:21 AM
No offense taken, but I would disagree and would rather state the actual fact for clamping the barb fitting as why not take the extra time and money during the installation and do it? You clamp your poly fittings! If I were to build a house there would be certain small things I would want done and that is how I look at clamping the barbed elbows.I was around when Funny Pipe was called Flex Extension Pipe (looks better on an invoice) - and there was absolutely no conjecture about its usage. No clamps were needed, and only Toro had the pipe and fittings, so no worries about the way things fit. I could actually jet under a sidewalk with the stuff, and couldn't blow the pipe off the fitting with 100 psi into a dead end.

Now, if you don't have the juice to demand and get only the our-good-name-depends-on-it swing pipe and fittings, and are working with lesser material, go right ahead and clamp. (What size of clamp, by the way?) - Just don't think you're practicing good technique.

One other point here, is that poly pipe is supposed to be clamped over the barbs, and not at a point where there are no barbs under the clamp. The manufacturers are very specific on this. (and field experience will tell you where they're coming from) With the one barb at the very end of the funny pipe fittings, just where would you be clamping?

Flow Control
11-06-2006, 03:42 PM
Our elbows have 4 barbs, we clamp on the barbs.

Wet_Boots
11-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Rainbirds and Toros seal by the end barb, and quality pipe conforms to the (sharp) sealing barb, even if there are spiral barbs or other barbs further from the end. I get to see inferior fittings, from small companies selling them on the cheap, and, apparently, there are inferior grades of swing pipe to be had, either inferior in material quality or quantity. I won't even give a glance to anything but Toro or Rainbird or Irritrol or Hunter swing pipe.

Quality swing pipe on a quality fitting needs no clamps. If someone is using cheap crap, go ahead and clamp, since it might actually be useful. With quality components, however, the practice of clamping is a crock. Maybe useful as a selling point, but still a crock. There are better ways to chase system reliability.

Flow Control
11-06-2006, 05:12 PM
Do you use all swing pipe assemblies?

Flow Control
11-06-2006, 05:14 PM
Do you use all swing pipe assemblies? Around here you you have two options, swing pipe assemblies which I have never been a fan of or funnly pipe elbows and funny pipe.

Dirty Water
11-06-2006, 08:19 PM
Do you use all swing pipe assemblies?

No. I find those premanufactured swing pipes a waste of time since we are not always the same distance from the head each time.

What brand swing pipe and barbs do you use?

Rotor-Man
11-07-2006, 08:52 AM
RainBird Funny Pipe and also their barbs. No clamps ever, and don't understand the thought process behind doing it, then just use poly fitting and extend the poly pipe to the head. Looked at pre-made swing joints, perfect in the "Perfect World", but not in the field where every head is not that exact distance away, lastly way to costly in price and flexibility in range.

jerryrwm
11-07-2006, 10:54 AM
Premade swing joints are useful in areas where the pipe is trenched, the southern states. The ditch is dug all the way to the head, and the PVC is laid to the head. It is very simple to run the pipe and end with a female fitting and then set the swing joint/head, backfill and move on. Cost is approximately the same as funny pipe when the labor is figured in. Two funny ells, marlex ell (if used) and funny pipe - $0.75-0.80 plus a couple minutes labor vs. $1.25 for a 12" swing joint. Works out pretty close.

They won't work for everyone, but they are handy as a pocket on a shirt sometimes.

drmiller100
11-15-2006, 01:20 AM
i'm not smart enough to use teh swing pipe assemblies.

sometimes i need to put sprnklers next ot a house, deck, ditch or something. when that happens, i'm not good enough to pull or trench the pipe EXACTLY 12 inches or whatever from the margin.
so we saddle it, 90 it, and stuff some swing pipe at it, plenty long.
come back second pass and stuff sprinklers, then turn water on, then nozzles.

back to teh original question. 20 feet is a looooooooooong ways to run swing pipe. not an issue for 1 inch poly.