start business or head to college?

[pleasantholm lawns]

all right guys i need your help!
tough decision on my hands.
im in grade 12 , last year of high school. im very excited to start my own lawncutting business but i dont know weather i should head to college and take a few business and management courses first. what do yas think?

[N&CLandscaping]

Start your Business and take courses at Night thats just my opinion

[kentuckylawns]

go to college, in my opinion it will be a he** of a lot easier to run a successful business if you have the right fundamentals first. Go get a degree, you cant go wrong with a college degree to fall back on.

[redtreeinc]

stay out of the business....it is already inundated with blokes that have no clue how to run a successful business or provide proper customer service.


WE DONT NEED ANY MORE CHECK CASHERS!!

[turf dog]

Don't pass up the chance to go to college. Even tho my business degree has had very little impact on my ability to run a business. What I got out of college was meeting a lot of new people that have been great for networking and as customers. Plus college can also teach you self discipline about how to handle things on your own.

[MudslinginFX4]

Take it from me, I'm young, run a very successful business, but many times wish I would have stayed in school.

When I quit school I told myself and everyone else I was taking one semester off (to catch up on work) but I never went back.

I've now got 4 trucks to pay for, mowers out the azz, a skid steer, mini ex, shop rent, house mortgage, health insurance, employees to pay... etc... and can't go back.

I'm not saying I don't like the business (most of the time I do), but if you start the business you will probably have a very hard time doing school and work. I got carried away with the money, and never realized college is more then money, it's about making the money you make a lot easier to get, and helps you make a lot better decisions with investing etc.. not to mention it was almost impossible for me to get a loan up until last year (it took 2 full years of building good solid credit).

One thing I have proved people wrong is you don't need to go to college to make good money. It's just a lot easier to make good money if you do.

[jajwrigh]

go to college, in my opinion it will be a he** of a lot easier to run a successful business if you have the right fundamentals first. Go get a degree, you cant go wrong with a college degree to fall back on.

This is excellent advice! I stopped my business 2 years ago to finish a degree and I am almost done with another. My point is that if you need to, you can get the degree and always get back into business later. This industry isn't going to dissapear on you..

[JJLandscapes]

my sig below says my thoughts..


if you go with no school you better know how to run a business ( alot harder then just taking out a 50k loan and buying shiny new equipment) and then u better be a fast learner and excel in the landscaping field at a fast pace
And make sure your market is big enough so you can reach whatever goals you set for yourself as far as income

some people can be successful without school( dont let anyone tell u otherwise some of the wealthiest people i know never got a degree) but most cant to be honest i would sit in class and get A's in business D's in everything else and those A's would turn into incompletes and F's because i would be doing spring cleanups during midterm time and fall cleanups during finals time and just stopped going

Parents went nuts for a long time til they realized how much money i was making and now they never mention once when am i going back to school.. I wish i started fresh out of HS to be honest

FYI- Running a full time business will take its toll on your social life and everything else so if you cant take that big step than go to school and cut a few lawns a week on the part time to see if you enjoy it

[UpNorth]

Go to college!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If after 4 years you want to start your business, do it then. If the biz fails you have college to fall back on.

My business is fine and getting better everyday, but I wish I had the degree!!

[BeautifulBlooms]

Go to college and do some mowing on the side, noone says you cant do lawn mowing part time while you are in school. If you decide to major in business then you will learn how ot properly run a business. Or if you decide to study horticulture you will be getting extremely valuable information from your classes while you are already growing your business. But I would have to say don't get tempted to stop taking classes if you start making a lot of money, finish the degree and build the business and then when you graduate you will already have a customer base to grow off of.

Just my opinion.

[Jpocket]

my sig below says my thoughts..


if you go with no school you better know how to run a business ( alot harder then just taking out a 50k loan and buying shiny new equipment) and then u better be a fast learner and excel in the landscaping field at a fast pace
And make sure your market is big enough so you can reach whatever goals you set for yourself as far as income

some people can be successful without school( dont let anyone tell u otherwise some of the wealthiest people i know never got a degree) but most cant to be honest i would sit in class and get A's in business D's in everything else and those A's would turn into incompletes and F's because i would be doing spring cleanups during midterm time and fall cleanups during finals time and just stopped going

Parents went nuts for a long time til they realized how much money i was making and now they never mention once when am i going back to school.. I wish i started fresh out of HS to be honest

FYI- Running a full time business will take its toll on your social life and everything else so if you cant take that big step than go to school and cut a few lawns a week on the part time to see if you enjoy it

Ditto...except I don't have an 07' benz and a 700k home.

[stroker51]

I'm doing both right now and it is a royal PITA. I'm gunning for an associate's of just general education classes with all my electives in the horticulture side and some business classes next semester. School is valuable, but I really think that my drive to succeed would be enough either way. But with learning all the basics in school, it will hopefully help me to avoid learning on my dime if you know what I mean. I would recommend maybe having 1 day of mowing, and take 12 to 15 hours of classes. Make sure some of the classes are stuff that interests you, biz classes, landscape or turf, somthing to keep you interested as you sleep through psychology, composition, etc. I often wonder why i'm in school when i make as much as several of my high school teachers did, but i'm not a quitter either, and i've started this college thing so i may as well finish what i set out to accomplish. Do you need an education to be successful in this business? No, my former employer was one of the biggest, most successful companies here before he downsized and he didn't even graduate high school. However, now that I am going to school and learning about cool stuff like reinforced retaining walls, he is subbing all that work to me since he never learned it himself.

[Roger]

This report may help you confirm a decision to attend college:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,225381,00.html

I too urge you to pursue a higher education. The process is much more than learning the academic material. It is about learning discipline, learning to work with others in teams, getting new visions of opportunities you never knew existed, and getting well-grounded in the process of learning. Few people ever stay in the same place, same profession, same situation for very long. Being nimble and able to learn new things to adapt to new opportunities will be invaluable in the next 30 years.

Yes, some on LS will say their friends went to college and aren't making any more money. These reports may be true now (age 22-30), but how about at age 45-50? How many people do you know that have been in the lawn care, landscaping, etc for 30 years? The turnover rate is very, very high. This means that those leaving have had to move to other careers. How well did they adapt to a new career? How able were they to learn the new things necessary to fit into a new employment situation, new business opportunity?

Go to school to learn to learn. That skill will last a lifetime.

[JJLandscapes]

Ditto...except I don't have an 07' benz and a 700k home.

lol i have another part time business too thats why

[JJLandscapes]

This report may help you confirm a decision to attend college:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,225381,00.html

.

College graduates made an average of $51,554 in 2004 that is the key thing you need to look at in the article


They are comparing a college graduate to someone working for someone else not someone self employed is what is being mislead.

make yourself a gameplan see if you can make more than 50k by the time you would graduate college ( which is 5+ years for everyone of my friends due to always switching majors or transferring universities) If you cant achieve that goal then go try school

my friends asking me for part time work because most of them are making 30-40k at most fresh out of school with an avg degree from an avg school. i work less hours and make more money


Also do you want to landscape for the rest of your life is honestly one of the biggest question taht everyone overlooks


and can u live with the fact that your punctuations and spelling are terrible like mine ???? lol

[PROFESSORRAIN]

Why not both?Your young and interested enough in both or it would be no choice.And both are an education!

[Roger]

make yourself a gameplan see if you can make more than 50k by the time you would graduate college ( which is 5+ years for everyone of my friends due to always switching majors or transferring universities) If you cant achieve that goal then go try school



This is very short-term thinking.

[MarcSmith]

go to college, while in college get a part time with a garden center or landscaper or squirt and fert company. Learn something else about the Hort industry that you don't already know when you get out of college get a job. use that job to help pay for your certifications and licenes and start your own landscaping on the side...part time....

I would not major in business, get a minor in business at the very least though, and major in something you really want to learn about...Wheather it be Art, History,enginnering, ect. By having the practical knowledge by working for the other landscape companies, you are also learning good and bad business practices (ie you are learning what works) which can then be transfered to your own company should you decide to take the plunge.

Just remember to run a part time landscape company takes alot of time and effort. you will have no personal time, if you run it on the level...This is why I reccomend working for someone else before you jump in. for every hour working you will spend 1/2 behind the scenes.

good luck

[martinfan06]

Do both 1/2 in school 1/2 working in the field if possible,then you get the best of both worlds. If you have to pick 1 go to SCHOOL, ITS TO HARD TO GO BACK.

[LindblomRJ]

I would say go to school. I am 28 and have not decided what I want to do when I grow up. I did a few classes after High school, while working full time.

I am thinking I would like to study horticulture or something along those lines. But I am in a position where I would have move away from here. I have a pretty good job, a house and my wife doesn't want to leave the area or her job.

Education does not guarantee success nor lack of education promise failure.

It is your decision, your responsibility.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

I would say go to school. I am 28 and have not decided what I want to do when I grow up. I did a few classes after High school, while working full time.

I am thinking I would like to study horticulture or something along those lines. But I am in a position where I would have move away from here. I have a pretty good job, a house and my wife doesn't want to leave the area or her job.

Education does not guarantee success nor lack of education promise failure.

It is your decision, your responsibility.

The above post is very good advice. I especially like the line:

Education does not guarantee success nor lack of education promise failure.

I always believe in enhancing your knowledge in life, be it world events to career related topics. I know two guys who are very wealthy ... one has a high school education and the other didn't even graduate high school. I know there are people out there with 4 and 5 year degrees who either are struggling, or aren't even working.

Within reason, anything you set your mind to is obtainable. So much depends on your drive to succeed, and your ability to use common sense in all that you do in life.

If it were me, I would probably do both ... go to school and work part time. Good luck in whatever you do.

:weightlifter:

[Ed Ryder]

I earned a 2 year business degree from Penn State. It's all I had the patience for. And over the years since then I just studied and took courses in subjects that were interesting to me. In hindsight, the degree wasn't necessary at all. In fact, I think I would have done better if I just plowed ahead instead of wasting time in a classroom.

Interestingly, I have encountered many people who seem to have a lower sense of self-esteem because they never went to college, and I don't understand that.

Well, I don't think college is necessary, but you should take courses in things that will be beneficial for your career. For the self-employed, the degree isn't the key, it's the knowledge you acquire.

[BQLC]

Get The education My grandfather always told me that it is one thing that can never be taken away from you. It will be easier now than when you are 40. You can always mow part time and get the biz started and by the time you finish college you will have a established a name

[Prestige-Lawncare]

For the self-employed, the degree isn't the key, it's the knowledge you acquire.

And again ... more good advice. It's all in the desire and drive.

:weightlifter:

[MarkintheGarden]

all right guys i need your help!
tough decision on my hands.
im in grade 12 , last year of high school. im very excited to start my own lawncutting business but i dont know weather i should head to college and take a few business and management courses first. what do yas think?

Do both the best you can. You will need some income as a student, and as a business owner you will need the accounting and other skills you will learn in college.

[PMLAWN]

There is only one right answer to this question, if you have the ability to go to school –DO IT!!.
There is about a 1 in 100 chance that not going will be better for you.
Most new business fail
Most grass cutters make only OK money and need to create a Business to really make a good living, and that will take education.
You will live another 50+ years. School will give you options
Lawn care is a “luxury” idem. If times get bad what do you think people drop first.
Lawncare is in the service industry, that industry is going to get hit very hard, (already is), by immigration and low cost workers.
The Middle class, you largest customer base, is fighting for its life in this country.

Do not discount this study—

College graduates made an average of $51,554 in 2004, the most recent figures available, compared with $28,645 for adults with a high school diploma. High school dropouts earned an average of $19,169 and those with advanced college degrees made an average of $78,093
Even this industry is getting tighter with regulations and requirements. How long before there is degree requirements to get a pesticide license or even to get a business lic.

It is your life—and you are going to gamble with it and your future.
You can listen to the kid with a huge mortgage, and car loan telling you college is wrong or you can trust the studies that tell facts of income. 95% of large money earners (100K+) have school as their base.
Even the guys on LS that are 40+ seem to feel school is better. Most of the anti school guys have not even started to experience life and all the hassles it will throw at you.
Again I say there is only one right answer, unless you are certain you are the 1 in 100

[JJLandscapes]

There is only one right answer to this question, if you have the ability to go to school –DO IT!!.
There is about a 1 in 100 chance that not going will be better for you.
Most new business fail
Most grass cutters make only OK money and need to create a Business to really make a good living, and that will take education.
You will live another 50+ years. School will give you options
Lawn care is a “luxury” idem. If times get bad what do you think people drop first.
Lawncare is in the service industry, that industry is going to get hit very hard, (already is), by immigration and low cost workers.
The Middle class, you largest customer base, is fighting for its life in this country.

Do not discount this study—

College graduates made an average of $51,554 in 2004, the most recent figures available, compared with $28,645 for adults with a high school diploma. High school dropouts earned an average of $19,169 and those with advanced college degrees made an average of $78,093
Even this industry is getting tighter with regulations and requirements. How long before there is degree requirements to get a pesticide license or even to get a business lic.

It is your life—and you are going to gamble with it and your future.
You can listen to the kid with a huge mortgage, and car loan telling you college is wrong or you can trust the studies that tell facts of income. 95% of large money earners (100K+) have school as their base.
Even the guys on LS that are 40+ seem to feel school is better. Most of the anti school guys have not even started to experience life and all the hassles it will throw at you.
Again I say there is only one right answer, unless you are certain you are the 1 in 100

lol always hating on me in one way or another.. its understandable but u say the same exact things as i say most the time not everyone can do it.. u gave the number 1 out of 100.... but that one becomes very very very succesful and worth the risk


there are countless articles you can search for proving otherwise that degree's unless in fields such as accoutning, computer science, physical therapy or dr's(fields and salaries on the rise) hold less and less value. Never trust an article for a step that will affect your life. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD CHOOSE WHAT GOAL YOU WANT IN LIFE is the bottom line

Garbage men and postal workers make more than 50k a year after 2-3 years is another comparison. I see more 20-25 year olds delivering mail than ever

[dcgreenspro]

go to school! If you want to start a serious business then a degree can only make you that much better then the next guy. there will always be time for work but not for getting educated!

[DoetschOutdoor]

Im going to a private university 15 mins away from where my parents live and I still do an avg of 30 accounts weekly. During the school year you definately have to be good at time management if you plan on getting decent grades and mowing yards. Im halfway done with school now and the business classes are really going to help me with my business in the future. Find a school that is close to home and mow yards at the same time. I know alot of people will ***** about living off mommy and daddy but I know I am going to continue to stay in school so they will help me out and I know that I will be set after I graduate because I got a degree from a top school. It is totally your choice but why not go to college (at least part time). In today's world it is getting tougher and tougher to get the high paying jobs and my school is beginning to stress going to grad school because In many areas, a bachelors degree is simply not enough anymore. I say start your biz small and go to school and at least have somthing to fall back on if the lawn biz. doesnt suit you right. Hopefully, in a few years my sig will say somthing along the line of "2010 Z06 Vette parked in front of my $1million crib"

[PMLAWN]

lol always hating on me in one way or another.. its understandable but u say the same exact things as i say most the time not everyone can do it.. u gave the number 1 out of 100.... but that one becomes very very very succesful and worth the risk


no hating on anybody
the risk is 1 out of 100 and you think it is worth it--
u gave the number 1 out of 100.... but that one becomes very very very succesful and worth the risk

but if you can be that guy do you think you could do even better with the education?
I still say go and make you odds much better.:)

[Eakern & Dog]

Try college. If you can afford it, do the whole University thing where you live on campus etc... It's an experience that you should not pass up if you are able! Take this time( your youth) to explore new concepts, people, and ideas . There is plenty of time for you to work and start your business. You may find out while in college that you want to do something else.........like design buildings, become a geologist, a teacher, a saxaphone player, swallow swords in the Circus, etc..........:)

[MarkintheGarden]

lol always hating on me in one way or another.. its understandable but u say the same exact things as i say most the time not everyone can do it.. u gave the number 1 out of 100.... but that one becomes very very very succesful and worth the risk


there are countless articles you can search for proving otherwise that degree's unless in fields such as accoutning, computer science, physical therapy or dr's(fields and salaries on the rise) hold less and less value. Never trust an article for a step that will affect your life. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD CHOOSE WHAT GOAL YOU WANT IN LIFE is the bottom line

Garbage men and postal workers make more than 50k a year after 2-3 years is another comparison. I see more 20-25 year olds delivering mail than ever


You are right about one thing YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD CHOOSE WHAT GOAL YOU WANT IN LIFE, but I don't know why we are shouting:confused:

Education is an asset and equals options. Until you realy know what you want to do in this life it is smart to create more options. Large mortgages and expensive cars reduce your options they are liabilities and not necessarily indications of success.

Forget the financial considerations, the reasons you want to go to school are to not be the dumbest guy in the room, to learn your options, open doors, to understand what people are talking about, and the world you live in, to gain powerful knowledge and enjoy life and most of all for girls and beer.

[Tim Wright]

As some put it, school inhances your ability to earn a living working for someone else.

Owning a true business (Not being self employed) gives you the chance to build wealth.

If you go to school, earn a degree and then decide to try to build a business and decide that owning and building your own business is not for you, your earning potential will most likely be greater than if you did not.

If you are bent on building your own business, even though college would be a good experience, and somewhat worth while, is not the cheapest nor the most educational in the business building endevour. You would be better off make friends who have built business, do a lot of reading and go to seminars, etc.

Just my thoughts.

Tim

[PMLAWN]

and enjoy life and most of all for girls and beer.
The best answer yet:laugh:
That and like Eakern & Dog said to learn to swallow swords in the Circus.
what more is there in life??????:drinkup:

Well maybe a girl that likes beer and can swallow swords also:clapping:

[DoetschOutdoor]

Go to college, join a frat, graduate. This plan will get you $$$ in the long run along with plenty of beer and chicks:) :)

[MarcSmith]

Garbage men and postal workers make more than 50k a year after 2-3 years is another comparison. I see more 20-25 year olds delivering mail than ever

OK I'll bite on the urban myth here....

starting pay grade for a USPS letter carrier is "6" which ranges from 28 to 33K per year. currenly letter carrier pay raises are determined by a collective barganiing unit.... so i doubt that after 2-3 years 50K is possible, unless you are working bunchof overtime.

Starting for a solid waste worker(guy on the back of the truck) here in Dc is 10-13 an hour. CDL drivers obviouls can garner more st it becomes a skilled position. to make 50 K on 13 an hour you would have to work the equivalent of 3800 hours. here on campus they make 13.40....

SO. go work the postal service and deliver letters (rain snow, sleet, wind, ect) work 60 hours a week andhave no personal life, or hang on the back of a garbage truck in all types of nasty weather for 60 hours a week picking up peoples smelly dirty crap and even if you had time for a personal life, no one woudl want to get within ten feet of you sicne you'd have you own new brand of colgne. And youre body would be shot in 5 years....

If you have no drive, no desire then great. but if you have drive and desire go to school learn something to make your self marketable. in ten years when you have NOT become a Valley Crest, Brickman, Chapel Valley or a Rupert, and your not happy you have something to fall back on...

I have a nice house, only half my mortgage to go after 6 years, two cars (minivan and SUV)each less than 4 years old (no payment) work on average 45 hours a week, get three weeks vacation and 14 holidays, and when my daughter is ready for school I got an E ticket ride at Georgetown waiting for her.

Could I have done this without a degree, maybe, but I'm not willing to go back and take that chance....

[LB1234]

My personal experience...

Well, I went to college and received a degree in engineering science with a concentration in electrical. Graduated in dec of '99. Started working in February. Enjoyed it a lot. Company I worked for sent me to get my masters (free ride no money out of pocket) to pursue a masters degree in systems engineering.

In 2000 I bought a pickup. My brother and I decided in winter of '00 we would mow a few lawns next spring. Started out with 3-4 lawns on Friday evenings/saturdays. Next thing ya know our clients wanted more and more work and we landed a commercial account. We were getting pressed for time b/c we both worked 'full-time' jobs and we were both going to college at that time. Decision time. By the way between 2000 and 2003 I got married and my wife gave birth to our first child. I was a little busy.

In 2003 in was decision time. I decided to leave my full-time job and pursue my/our business. BTW, I was 3 credits away from my masters and never completed the course since I left...

Everone in the servie industry field I speak to...fellow landscapers, plumbers, elctricains, general contractors, etc. told me I was nuts and I should have stuck with my desk job. A lot (not all) of the people I spoke to in my 'desk-job' field felt I was making the right decision sinceI enjoyed the landscaping field more and the political BS I was dealing with in my full-time job was really getting to me.

Was I sorry I went to college? No, I had a great time in college. I learned a lot of things that I can apply to my business. Specifically, my public speaking courses, my writing classes, all of my math classes. My job also has helped me with my business. I was in charge of mutliple projects so I learned real fast how to multi-task..something we do on a daily basis in this industry. I also was in charge of contrators I had working for me/our company to help with our projects. This helps me when I have subcontractors/employees working for us.

Part of me wishes I had taken the money I spent on going to a four year college and using that to start up my business. But the more I think about it I think that would have been the wrong move. I matured a lot in college, learned a lot about the 'real-world', and did many things to put myself through college...weather it was through internships or working in the retail stores.

My advice, go to a community college and pursue a two-year degree in business management and learn how to successfully run your business. Then take some night course at the local vo-techs and learn about small engine repair, welding, carpentry, whatever, that can help you run your business without a heavy reliance on vendors.

just my two cents. Trying to provide a viewpoint from someone elses shoes.

[DoetschOutdoor]

3 credits away from your masters and you dropped?????? Just seems like a lot of work and time to be soooo close...

[Ed Ryder]

I only went to college because of enormous parental pressure. I went to the local Penn State campus from 1983 to 1985. Either 31 or 32 people were in my associate degree program. I was the only one to graduate on schedule, and I was only able to do it by taking the accelerated summer program and even taking 21 credits one semester.

In the end, I thought it did expand my mind, but I also considered it a waste of time. And the program did not give me enough skills.

I took 5 accounting courses. Two real estate courses. A bunch of management courses, marketing, finance, quantitative business analysis, economics, business law, labor law, public speaking, English, algebra, a required computer programming course, and a bunch of dumb stuff that was required.

The computer course was a complete waste of time. The teacher was a schmuck whose main focus was getting into the pants of the lone female student. Fortran (programming language) - what the hell was I going to do with that? That's what the course was about. I learned nothing except for the personality shortcomings of the instructor. (He gave me a "B" I believe in return for an expected positive course review. The chick got the "A." The guy who never showed up got a "C.")

Economics - boring, boring, boring. And if you missed one class, it was over. You were lost for the remainder of the course.

Quantitative Business Analysis - difficult and boring.

Public speaking - not sufficient. I took Dale Carnegie courses in public speaking and sales years later and got much more benefit out of it.

Marketing - okay, that was pretty good. The teacher was a bit of a freak, but I enjoyed the class.

Finance - oh god, that was boring. Some bean counter from private industry taught it.

Business law - this was very good, but I took it in my first semester and I was not intellectually ready for it to get the maximum benefit. A local judge taught that class.

Labor law - uh, it was a bit boring. Helpful, yes. But the teacher was deadly boring.

College algebra was so damn hard. I only got a passing grade by writing a plea for a "D" on my final exam so that I could graduate and get on with my life:laugh:

I had to take American history. Geez, that was a huge amount of reading. And the instructor was like a heartless drill sergeant! Man!

I took real estate courses at another university, because I liked the topic and I very much enjoyed those courses (good instructor).

Let me see... I had to take a health course and a gym course (bowling:dizzy: )

Oh, English! That was worthwhile, but one of those instructors was freaky eccentric. I took a bunch of English courses, including report writing. That was all worthwhile.

Earth science - gee, that was not easy. I couldn't believe how hard that was.

There was TONS of cheating during many tests.

Anyway, I taught myself more on my own over the years through all kinds of business seminars and conferences. I learned how to dig for info (pre-internet). I studied Russian. And I just devoured info. That's how I got educated - on my own.

The main benefit I got out of college was improving myself as a writer. And I liked the real estate courses. That's it.

The bottom line: it was a waste of my time. But that's me.

College has become much more expensive, and it isn't always the ticket to riches, or affluent living. Many students graduate with an enormous burden of college loan debt. And many pile up credit card debt during their college years. Right from the start, they've severely hurt themselves financially.

I think you have to weigh the pluses and minuses of each path, and then decide which is right for you.

In 4 years you could be a home owner with assets, while your college counterparts are way behind.

If you want to make friends, get drunk a lot, and not worry about the future, maybe college is for you? A lot of students go to college to delay the responsibilities of adulthood. If you are in a hurry to grow up and begin building your fortune, then maybe just jumping into business is the way to go?

As for me, I always knew I would be in business for myself. I tried getting "real jobs." Job hunting totally sucks. And I have so little tolerance for working under bad managers:laugh:

[MarcSmith]

I

In 4 years you could be a home owner with assets, while your college counterparts are way behind.


with a HS Diploma and a truck and some lawn equipment No bank in their right mind would think of loaning money for a mortgage. after 2-3 good years with nice tax returns and being self employeed, the bank manager might at least look at your application breifly before hitting you up for a higher than normal interest rate.

I'm not saying that college would help any, but if you work your way throgh college and manage your money well it makes it much easier. Every mortgage app I've filled out has always asked what level of education I've had.

Do keep good records if you decide to go off on your own, they will need to be meticulous when you start applying for the loans for the big ticket items, and you want the lowest rates.

Assets don't make the world go round, my freind....I took me a long time to figure that out...

[BarefootLandGroup]

I have the same story that many on here have.

I started Barefoot Lawn Maintenance during the summer of my junior and senior year of high school. By the summer of my senior year, I was mowing (with help) almost 40 yards per week.

I graduated from high school, and went at it full time until the summer of 97 when I decided that it was time to go to college. I sold my accounts, sold my equipment, and off I went.

After completing my BS in Business Administration, I decided to move forward with my MBA. Graduated, found a great job, life was good. But, I just could not make the money that I wanted too.

So, I began mowing again. Now I am mowing, pouring concrete, installing irrigation systems, and doing ful installations with some homebuilders in the area.

I guess my advice would be to go to school, get the degree. Even an Associates at a local community college would be of great benefit. Start your business and don't look back. Remember there are no regrets!!

You can do it.....landscaping is not going anywhere for a long time.

[PMLAWN]

Well everybody is telling their story and why it matters--so here goes,
I know education is good so I try to get everything I can out of it, But I did not go to a true 4 year college, I have an asso, degree in mechanical eng.
and lots of other classes. I make good money, better than some with the 4 year, but my wife, (and she is a women) has the 4 year BS. MBA. CPA. RE Broker Lic. CCIM. 6 Sigma green belt. Guess what --she makes a ton more than me. (Just think if she was a guy the money she would make) School works for most

[Tim Wright]

I think we have all forgot to mention that college is great for making business contacts for later down the road.

Tim

[MarkintheGarden]

Well everybody is telling their story and why it matters--so here goes,
I know education is good so I try to get everything I can out of it, But I did not go to a true 4 year college, I have an asso, degree in mechanical eng.
and lots of other classes. I make good money, better than some with the 4 year, but my wife, (and she is a women) has the 4 year BS. MBA. CPA. RE Broker Lic. CCIM. 6 Sigma green belt. Guess what --she makes a ton more than me. (Just think if she was a guy the money she would make) School works for most

Good for you PM!
I am glad to hear that your wife is a woman, so is mine:)

[Clear-Cut]

if you go to school. ratemyprofessors.com will be ur godsend...never make my schedule without it...i slack off and my gpa is 3.35 out of a possible 4.0..i graduated hs with 2.9 out of a total 4.75

[rfed32]

go to college then start biz...i tryed it the other way and then tried to go back to school this year and cant...ull get to liking money to much...but if u really want to start up you biz, go to night school...its a lot of work...working and school but it will pay off...thats whay im doing....good luck

[PMLAWN]

Good for you PM!
I am glad to hear that your wife is a woman, so is mine:)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: -- was mentioned because women make less than men. but you knew that:drinkup:

[Jlawnmow]

Alright I will say there is alot of good advice, but not everyone is ment to go to college. If you are planning on working for corperate America I agree that you need to go to college and get a degree in something. But if your an entrpernuer

[Jlawnmow]

Alright I will say there is alot of good advice, but not everyone is ment to go to college. If you are planning on working for corporate America I agree that you need to go to college and get a degree in something. But if your an entrepreneur be heart (like me) college is a good idea, but not a must. I will say that I am going to college right now but I'm getting ready to drop out b/c I have 60 yards and I cant do both (I did try though). So I'm not going to give up 47k to go to college. On down the rode if something happens and I want to do something different there are alot of different businesses that you can start with out having a degree.

A friend of mine has 14 fire work stands and works 2 months be for the 4th of July and 2 weeks be for the new year and thats ALL he does!!! The rest of the year is vacation! He has no college degree.

[Jlawnmow]

P.S. the computer messed up the first time.

[MarkintheGarden]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: -- was mentioned because women make less than men. but you knew that:drinkup:

Yes I did:laugh:
and yes they do make less than men, but some of them make good wives:rolleyes:

[Prestige-Lawncare]

Alright I will say there is alot of good advice, but not everyone is ment to go to college. If you are planning on working for corperate America I agree that you need to go to college and get a degree in something. But if your an entrpernuer

I'm done with "Corporate America". You want to talk about bull, politics, backstabbing, and selling anyone and everyone out ... that's "Corporate America". After 31 years of it ... I AM HAPPY AS H-E-L-L TO BE OUT OF IT!!!

Get all the education you want ... but unless you want untold of amounts of stress for uncalled for reasons ... don't plan on making your millions working in Corporate America. Do work for them (maintain their properties) .. but stay on the outside of their boardroom doors.

:drinkup:

[fiveoboy01]

I think it's always a great idea to go to school.

The more you can learn, the better off you will be, and the more options you will have.

[daveintoledo]

go to school,

and be careful about the advise you take on this site, many of the members are just children, and really dont have a handle on the real world yet...

you will find many of the more succesful people on this board have not only been to college, but have graduate degress.......:weightlifter:

[GrassQuester]

Id say it depends on the market you are in how fast is your area growing? Are you doing residentials or commercials? Do you mind working part time until a couple of years pass when you can concentrate solely on your biz?
For me I will never work for another person again it took me a long time to actually be able to save a signicant amount of money each month but it was well worth it!

[justanotherlawnguy]

Everybody loves to play the go to college card then do a lawn biz.

Only you can decide what is right for you.

I will probably net around $60-65k this year with my business. I have a Bachelors Degree from a big 4 year school (B.S. in Business admin with a major in Management Information Systems).

If I choose to walk away from my lawn business and go work for "the man" I might get a job making $30k to start $40k absolute tops with 2 weeks off per year. Plus I have a nice student loan payment every month from now until the cows come home.

[creeksidelc]

I am running a business now and going to college. I cut 25 lawns a week, and take 12 hours. I really feel like I am wasting time at school. When I work I feel like I am learning real world concepts, but school seems like I am just spinning my wheels. The two reasons I am staying in school are parental pressure(a place to live) and the security net college CAN provide. I thought if I had a serious injury I might be forced to do something else. I think our system is messed up, and I wish I could get my hands on whoever decided college is so important. Why does a piece of paper make one any better? My advice is to go to school, and start a business. Definently go to www.ratemyprofessors.com and choose the easiest ones you can. Just my oppinion now. In a few years it might change.

[Roger]

creeksidelc,

This kind of post is disheartening. I do not doubt the comments made here, and is similar to posts in other threads on the topic. I sense the frustration and the tone of the post reflects an attitude that will reap little from the college experience.

However, the part-time work, part-time college focus tends to minimize the value of spending time and money to attend the classes. Notice the order of importance in the first statement, business, then followed by "going to college." Clearly, your heart isn't in the intended educational environment.

College can be so much more than just attending classes. These kind of posts suggest otherwise, "... just grind through the classes and I will get a college education." Yes, attending classes and doing the class work is necessary and important. However, in a full-time situation, opportunities develop for teams, groups, networking, exchanging ideas and visions, and so forth. College should be a time when visions are opened for seeing interests and opportunities that would be missed if simply "attending classes."

I understand that due to monetary or time considerations, a part-time, remote college relationship might be necessary. But, the remote involvement
will minimize the things that could be learned and networking with people that could be important for you. "Just getting a piece of paper" does not make anybody any "better" (we need to understand what "better" means in this context). But, it will certainly open opportunities that might not be opened other wise.

Why has there been a steady migration of middle aged people returning to college (last 10 years) to get a higher education? In most cases, they have been in the work force for a few years, maybe 10-15 years, and realize they are at a disadvantage. When returning to school, they now might be married, with children, and therefore a return to college is being done at a great sacrifice and commitment.

Sure, anybody can cite examples of others five years after high school, "he spend four years at college, ... I spent four years working, ... I have ( X, Y, Z), and he does not ...." This observation is commonly given in these kinds of threads. However, I ask you to consider the two situations in 15, 20, 25 years. Trying to make comparisons a few years after high school is very short-term thinking.

By the way, what would you do after "getting my hands on whoever decided college is so important?" There are plenty of people around who would make such a suggestion.

I would also suggest considering those who are your lawn service customers. Obviously, every area is different. However, if your area is similar to most areas, many (if not most) customers are ones who have more money than time, or have enough discretionary money to hire somebody to mow their lawn, care for their beds, etc. And, how many of those are holding jobs or owning companies are college graduates? In my experience, nearly all of them. Most likely, these folks have reached their level to hire someobody because of their higher education. As stated in an earlier post, having a higher education is no guarantee of success. However, history shows the likelihood of success is far greater when holding a degree.

Some people are customers because they are unable physically to do their own work (disability, elderly, etc), and therefore need to hire somebody else to do the work. These are not the ones I am speaking about.

Having said all this, some folks just don't have the interest in education and are not well-suited for continuing their education.

[creeksidelc]

I see what you are saying. When I began college I was enthusiastic and excited about a new chapter. I quickly became disapointed. I do enjoy meeting people, but don't like listening to the ramblings of the professors. It just seems like college is over rated. For examle this semester I have 4 classes.
Government- A joke, the old guy doesn't care what we do, and he gives us the answers to the tests the day before.
Spanish- OK I am learning spanish.
Math 1111- A review from high school
English- We simply talk about the professors warped views on politics, and humanity, and listen to his hidden agenda.

I feel like this whole semester I have pretty much learned how to speak spanish a little better, and made a few friends, and contacts. It costed me all kinds of hard earned money though. I am definantly going to continue, but I hope it gets better.

[mikefromny]

lol always hating on me in one way or another.. its understandable but u say the same exact things as i say most the time not everyone can do it.. u gave the number 1 out of 100.... but that one becomes very very very succesful and worth the risk


there are countless articles you can search for proving otherwise that degree's unless in fields such as accoutning, computer science, physical therapy or dr's(fields and salaries on the rise) hold less and less value. Never trust an article for a step that will affect your life. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD CHOOSE WHAT GOAL YOU WANT IN LIFE is the bottom line

Garbage men and postal workers make more than 50k a year after 2-3 years is another comparison. I see more 20-25 year olds delivering mail than ever

im 20 years old , been delivering mail since i was 17 , actually live on long island, we dont make 50k , people that have been on the job since the 70s and OT out the ass barely can make 50k at the postal service, garbage is diff , the money is there but yeah , i could have went to school but between usps and lawncare business im doing good for a 20 year old kid from brooklyn , i couldnt take school , i plan to get rid of the postal service job , with something i enjoy and can make good money ( electrican union) and never give up the landscaping business , keep building it up , .. what about the people that go to school dont work at all! come out of college at around 24 years old , in DEBT from school and loans and than have to try and find a job , with a bunch of other people with that same degree , in those years between highschool - end of graduation , if you got your hustle on and saved your money think of what you could have built up and accomplished , this is just my 2 cents and the way i looked at it .. to each is own , and school was not mine , mine was to stay hungry and get money !!!!!!

[JJLandscapes]

im 20 years old , been delivering mail since i was 17 , actually live on long island, we dont make 50k , people that have been on the job since the 70s and OT out the ass barely can make 50k at the postal service, garbage is diff , the money is there but yeah , i could have went to school but between usps and lawncare business im doing good for a 20 year old kid from brooklyn , i couldnt take school , i plan to get rid of the postal service job , with something i enjoy and can make good money ( electrican union) and never give up the landscaping business , keep building it up , .. what about the people that go to school dont work at all! come out of college at around 24 years old , in DEBT from school and loans and than have to try and find a job , with a bunch of other people with that same degree , in those years between highschool - end of graduation , if you got your hustle on and saved your money think of what you could have built up and accomplished , this is just my 2 cents and the way i looked at it .. to each is own , and school was not mine , mine was to stay hungry and get money !!!!!!
careful with the electrical unions my friend went that route... was making absolutely nothing a week 3-400 working tons of hoursand you had to wait 5 years before you get an acceptable salary but nothing good still. Its only worth it if you start at 18



On a side note all you people saying go to school i hope you have children who are in there teens-20's either going into college or fresh out that you are giving all this advice

2006 isnt like it was when all you old timers where growing up times have changed...buts its ok im just an immature child and cant have any knowledge because im young

[MarcSmith]

you are correct this is '06, not 1956, in wich case you coudl graduate from highschool and get a good job. and retire in 2o years with a pension.

now to get a good enough job to be able to retire in 20 years with a pension a Bachelors used to be enough, but now it's looking like a masters is the way to go. heck when my daughter goes to school I'll bet she needs a PhD to be competitive in the workplace/corporate america.

we all know that you don't need a degree to be a landscaper. But landsacping is awful hard on the body and a degree is nice to fall back on when your body decides its had enough...

[MarcSmith]

you are correct this is '06, not 1956, in wich case you coudl graduate from highschool and get a good job. and retire in 2o years with a pension.

now to get a good enough job to be able to retire in 20 years with a pension a Bachelors used to be enough, but now it's looking like a masters is the way to go. heck when my daughter goes to school I'll bet she needs a PhD to be competitive in the workplace/corporate america.

we all know that you don't need a degree to be a landscaper. But landsacping is awful hard on the body and a degree is nice to fall back on when your body decides its had enough...

[Busto963]

Advice is worth what you pay for it, since this is the internet …

The real issue is not the choice between college and work. The real issue is what you want to do with your life, and where you want to be in 5, 10, 25, 40 years. On top of all that, you need to think about retirement, family and if you can keep doing hard physical labor in middle age if you get arthritis or a slipped disc.

A college education can be a tremendous benefit, but it is not a guaranteed to be so, and it could saddle you with enormous debt right at an early age. For professional people – doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, college is an absolute necessity, but a lot of CEOs don’t have MBAs, and very little class work that goes towards earning a bachelor’s degree is going to be directly applicable to what you do in any career path (again, unless you are a professional). What the college degree will give you is consideration to walk in the door, possible networking and some braging rights.

On the other hand, a lot of folks who start working, thinking that they will get to school latter own, never do. A lot of programs are trying to turn this around but it is still a reality. If you do get injured early on – you will be back to ground zero. And a lot of small business owners, even successful ones, are not necessarily doing things as efficiently (or even correctly) as they could. You could be learning the wrong lessons!

I vote to get the education, or at least learn a skill or trade first. You should then try to earn an early retirement out of that education or skill (retire in your early 40s). You might have the LCO as a side business, or just go full bore when you retired. By the time age make the job a chore, your business should have grown to the point where you are supervising others and what is between your ears is more important than what is between your legs! This is the path I am on, and that retirement income is mighty nice to have.:cool2:

[PMLAWN]

On a side note all you people saying go to school i hope you have children who are in there teens-20's either going into college or fresh out that you are giving all this advice


JJ, It is so sweet of you to have concern for my kids, but you need not worry. They have been raised to know that even though they are in High School now, every grade they get counts as far as the school they get into and what their life will be with higher education. They see from friends and family the life that advanced degrees provide. About the time you get to page 84 in the Benz payment book they will finish up their 4 year degree and be looking at schools for their masters. 2-4 years after that they will be 24-25 years old with the option of doing just about anything they want in life.
And as far as being in debt-- I guess success breeds success, as their parents already have higher education and therefore have made the money to send them to school.
I will be the first to agree that is does not work for everybody, it takes more than a piece of paper, and going to school does not guarantee you will make it. But most jobs will require one and not having it keeps you totally out of the running. It is not wrong to decide not to go, it's your life. It is not wrong to go and fail--again it is all you. I also do not think it is wrong to tell people about the benefits of going and the doors it opens and the options it affords.
What I do think is wrong is telling others that it is not a good thing to do and that it is better to take a 100 to 1 short ("worth the risk")at making it without school. To me that just makes no since. It's great that you have been lucky with work so far and can write a signature line to brag about it. But it IS 2006 and I feel you are better off moving forward in life armed with as much education, knowledge, and experience as you can get. So when the question was asked- "should I go to school or start my business first?" I still say the right answer is to go to school first, and there is a still a lot of time to start a business after.

[PMLAWN]

careful with the electrical unions my friend went that route... was making absolutely nothing a week 3-400 working tons of hoursand you had to wait 5 years before you get an acceptable salary but nothing good still. Its only worth it if you start at 18



On a side note all you people saying go to school i hope you have children who are in there teens-20's either going into college or fresh out that you are giving all this advice

2006 isnt like it was when all you old timers where growing up times have changed...buts its ok im just an immature child and cant have any knowledge because im young
Not hating just looking for answers-- Now you say going the trade route is also not the way to go as it takes to long to learn the trade (5 years) and become journeyman.
So my question to you is this-- You seem to have it all figured out and have done right with money and done it quick. So what is it that you are doing different. You tell us not to go to school so please tell us what to do. Thanks

[MarcSmith]

so right out of high school, you start a lawn care business, and unless you have deep pockets, you are in debt for lets say 15 large. since you got all used equipment. Then you get a mortgage and are in debt for anywhere from 100 to 500K....Thats a heck of a way to start out...


were as someone goes to college,if they are smart enough (scholarships), or their parents were smart enough, Lets say 1-100 chance here, then in four years they leave college with zero debt and a piece of paper that, for most jobs, will at least grant them an interview and a chance. Heck as a small business Id venture to say the my degree in Horticulture helped me land more than a few accounts...and it got me my first job at disney...

This being america, just about any one could go to a High end car dealer and become a car owner, and just about any one can get a mortgage. All depends on the rate, and length of the loan...

[JJLandscapes]

Not hating just looking for answers-- Now you say going the trade route is also not the way to go as it takes to long to learn the trade (5 years) and become journeyman.
So my question to you is this-- You seem to have it all figured out and have done right with money and done it quick. So what is it that you are doing different. You tell us not to go to school so please tell us what to do. Thanks

I cut lawns and i sell books simple as that . Started both companies with cash been an entrepeneuer on the small time since 8th grade. I grew up piss broke in a rich area where friends would get thousands in presents and cars and i never received a birthday present since elementary school

when i turned 20 the parents had a divorce after 30 years and my dad couldnt afford to pay for his 2 places and was living in a car for a week (dirty ass divorce ) so me and my brother took over everything or we would have no where to live.. and i promised myself im not gonna make my kids grow up broke and live through the same **** i had to


You Have to find a business that you can make money in and excel in.. I found both my callings with more to come in the future hopefully. If someone can not go to college and get a 4 year jumpstart on what they know they want to do in life why not? i wasted my cash sitting in school when i could have had 2 years+ progress on my businesses. That money could have gotten me more equipment or nicer mercedes lol jk

I feel a small small percentage of peoplel know how to run a good business at all. Most people who already own a business have no idea what they are doing and are not making as much money as they could. Mine arent perfect im an ******* still and can admit it but every year i set goals and try to increase the money in my pockets.


Thats why i always say u need to learn how to run a business b4 cutting grass

[MarkintheGarden]

we all know that you don't need a degree to be a landscaper. But landsacping is awful hard on the body and a degree is nice to fall back on when your body decides its had enough...

You do not need a degree to be a landscaper but if you are going to be a landscape company owner you should get one, or at least as much training in both the field and business.

In college I learned about lawnmower disease, do you guys even know what that is?

I learned about soil chemistry, disease and pests, plant identification, landscape design. I also learned business law, accounting and advertisement. How can you own a landscape company and not know most of these things?

There are many things you can only learn on the job, and there are many things you cannot learn on the job. Learning only half, either half, is just half azz.

Someone who has only formal classroom education is a rookie in the field, even if he is a hard worker and a quick learner education can never replace experience. Experience cannot replace education.

Get it all, be a player, you would not go out to mow without insurance, license, gas, water, whatever you need. You need education in this business, and any business.

I think it is wrong to look at the situation as "do I have to get an education".
No one has to get an education. Look at it this way "Should I or Do I want an education? Yes you should and if not now, you will want to have an education.

[Busto963]

"were as someone goes to college,if they are smart enough (scholarships), or their parents were smart enough, Lets say 1-100 chance here, then in four years they leave college with zero debt and a piece of paper that, for most jobs, will at least grant them an interview and a chance."

Mark, I agree with what you are saying, but the average college graduate is saddled with plenty of debt (doctors are particularly hard hit) - perhaps worse than the young entrpeneur.

I was lucky enough to get a full ride scholarship, but that is exceptionally rare now as school finance departments are experts at pulling every last tooth (what other business knows as much about your finances?:dizzy: ). I would argue that the guy leaving college better have: 1) studied in a field that potential employers are looking for, or 2) have made serious connections.

Getting a degree in Hebrew from Stanford is probably going to be fine (it is Stanford), getting a psych degree from a run of the mill university might not get you a job that will pay off your student loans.:hammerhead: And I still vote for getting the degree.

[MarkintheGarden]

I cut lawns and i sell books simple as that . Started both companies with cash been an entrepeneuer on the small time since 8th grade. I grew up piss broke in a rich area where friends would get thousands in presents and cars and i never received a birthday present since elementary school

when i turned 20 the parents had a divorce after 30 years and my dad couldnt afford to pay for his 2 places and was living in a car for a week (dirty ass divorce ) so me and my brother took over everything or we would have no where to live.. and i promised myself im not gonna make my kids grow up broke and live through the same **** i had to


You Have to find a business that you can make money in and excel in.. I found both my callings with more to come in the future hopefully. If someone can not go to college and get a 4 year jumpstart on what they know they want to do in life why not? i wasted my cash sitting in school when i could have had 2 years+ progress on my businesses. That money could have gotten me more equipment or nicer mercedes lol jk

I feel a small small percentage of peoplel know how to run a good business at all. Most people who already own a business have no idea what they are doing and are not making as much money as they could. Mine arent perfect im an ******* still and can admit it but every year i set goals and try to increase the money in my pockets.


Thats why i always say u need to learn how to run a business b4 cutting grass


JJ you have something that not many people do, keep that in mind when you give advice. I appreciate that you have the motivation and cunning to do what you have done, I expect that you realize most people crumble under the conditions you have endured and prospered. We all have a certain amount of gift or natural talent. If Being gifted, all the more reason for education.

What did you study (or not study) when you wasted your +2 years sitting in school?

I could not agree with you more about "u need to learn how to run a business b4 cutting".

It seems your reason for running a business is to make maximum profit. That is not the main goal of most businesses, and it is not even a consideration in many businesses. It should never be the only goal. Most people who own businesses know things you have yet to learn. First lesson of the school of hard knocks, never underestimate other players, that sets you up to get beat. Always have respect and learn from others.

Thanks JJ for sharing your story, it is inspiring, sincerely, keep in mind there are many more chapters ahead. Do not forget what got you here, but bear in mind what got you here might not be enough for what is to come.

[mikefromny]

[QUOTE=JJLandscapes]careful with the electrical unions my friend went that route... was making absolutely nothing a week 3-400 working tons of hoursand you had to wait 5 years before you get an acceptable salary but nothing good still. Its only worth it if you start at 18



hey jj , whats up bro , i think i talked to you before , your in huntington or something if i remember right ? well electrican unions (local 3 NYC) dont make much first couple years after 5 years you make $45.00 a hr and are guarenteed 6 months work , and if your laid off you get 6 months of unemployment to collect and money from a B fund , and you can do landscaping on the side ! so if you think about it your gonna make atleast 45k a for HALF a year and than can do Landscaping , you dont think thats a good deal bro? i dont know what electrican route your boy went , but that sounds pretty good to me , postal service blows , garbage too , i got alteast 5 friends in LI sanitation , and im in usps and that **** is not the way to live.

[Grass-Masters]

Go To College. Then Make money later.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

You know ... I have visited this post two or three different times ... and as you read what others post, it makes you think more and more.

I think that the bottom line here (and don't take this as a smart a** answer) ... but if you have to ask this question ... then I really think the answer is go to school.

People are different ... personalities are different ... life knowledge is different for everyone. I've known people who are "book smart", and don't have a clue when it comes to everyday life. I've met people who don't have a clue when it comes to being "book smart" ... but can do or build anything you ask or them. And sometimes ... these people are more wealthy and happy as most all well educated people I know.

Life is like a puzzle ... it takes pieces of all shapes and sizes to make the picture. The world needs all kinds of people at all levels of education ... and it takes us all to make the world go around.

What am I ... or what did I do? It doesn't matter. I'm me ... and I contribute to this world in a helping manner. Most of all ... I am a father ... and a proud one at that :)

Good luck in your decision ....

[PMLAWN]

People are different ... personalities are different ... life knowledge is different for everyone. I've known people who are "book smart", and don't have a clue when it comes to everyday life. I've met people who don't have a clue when it comes to being "book smart" ... but can do or build anything you ask or them. And sometimes ... these people are more wealthy and happy as most all well educated people I know.

. Most of all ... I am a father ... and a proud one at that :)

Good luck in your decision ....

And than some are book smart AND can build or fix anything AND get everyday life---- Now we are getting somewhere!!:)

But your last comment means the most, If you can produce a family and support that family, that makes you a success

[MarcSmith]

But your last comment means the most, If you can produce a family and support that family, that makes you a success

Being a good father come first. I could change jobs, have a crappy job, but being a good father is what counts and what makes me happy, everything else is icing on the cake...