Bidding help!

[LawnboysInc]

We've been mowing for about 3 years now, plowing for 5. We've been trying to grow and get some large businesses. Well we just can't get our prices right or something, our flyers and bid forms and such are great. We've had compliments on the quality, so it's not our presentation. Here's the big one, an apartment complex, about 200 acres total with 50-60 bldgs. Lots of trimming, sidewalks roads etc. edging. We've bid on it the last 2 years. We figure it cost about $30 ph to operate. What would you charge? I've tried to get what they paid before, I'm not sure they're telling the truth cause we STILL didn't get it. We've went higher and lower.

Thanks

[topsites]

I think it's a bit of a numbers game, I might recommend starting with something smaller, more in the range of 2-4 acres and 3-4 buildings and 100-200 offices / apartments / etc...

I mean, unless you regularly bid these x-large props... Doesn't have to be teenie tiny, but start SMALLER lol.

I dunno, it's just weird, but it's not price alone, that much I've learned.

[LawnboysInc]

We've been doing smaller lots, but they aren't paying the bills. We are going full fledge full time in the Spring and have to make it pay the bills. We are only part time now, with a full time job elsewhere. We have the equiptment to do it, we just need to jobs. Seems every year we bid tons and get a few. Can't figure out how to break into the market better. We took over our small town for plowing, but are trying to move into a new town for mowing, than eventually plowing as well.

[Runner]

Welcome to the lucrative world of "lawn mowing". Lesson #1...Stay away from apartment complexes I don't know what the draw is, but this is the category of commercial work that gets the absolute most bidding traffic. This is why there is no loyalty in apts., either. You can work your tail-end off for 2 or 3 years for a complex, and they will drop you like a bad habit to save 20 bucks a month. Where abouts in Mich. are you?

[YardPro]

you seem to have it in your mind that the large properties are more lucrative???

NOT!!!!!!!!!
the larger the property the thinner the margins. stay with smaller properties if you can. We do a lot of large properties, but they are very high end contracts that this company has maintained for 15 or more years.

getting into these types of contracts for large properties can only be done by you having good verifyable experience with this type of property

[LawnboysInc]

I don't think you make more off the large places, it's just less driving, loading, unloading etc. and it evens out. Maybe we need to rethink our strategy. Several small places in one day is better than one large one. We do alot of cold contacts with them to get our foot in the door, than bug them till they say no. Well not everyday, LOL.. But we follow up, and keep in touch. We've had good luck with the plowing like that. We work as a team and give it all we've got

We are in the Lansing area.

[PMLAWN]

I also believe the smaller properties can produce a better per hour return, you said it your self. $30 per hour, so most will bid out at 35 to 40, I was around 40 for the big stuff and up closer to 55 for the smaller lots.
much easier to get $35 for a 1/2 hour job than $1600 for a 40 hour one, at least in my experience

And than the big problem-- mess up the bid and it can hurt really bad!!

[ACutAbovesiny]

I agree with you PM. If you make a mistake with those big bids it can kill you. We bid on a condo complex this year (didnt get it) and after the other bid was accepted I realized I made a HUGE mistake that if we got the job we would have lost about $1,200 for the year. I was pretty happy that we lost that one after I caught my mistake.

[John Gamba]

Welcome to the lucrative world of "lawn mowing". Lesson #1...Stay away from apartment complexes I don't know what the draw is, but this is the category of commercial work that gets the absolute most bidding traffic. This is why there is no loyalty in apts., either. You can work your tail-end off for 2 or 3 years for a complex, and they will drop you like a bad habit to save 20 bucks a month. Where abouts in Mich. are you?


like joe said plus if you do lose it for what ever reason and you bought extra equipment it can sink you. You lose a small one you still eat.

[LawnboysInc]

Well that makes me feel better, we aren't necessarily doing something "wrong" just focusing on the wrong ones. That helps ALOT! Thanks

So another question, how persistant should we be about a particular job? I personally like calling people up, tell them I'm just following up, wondered if they made a decision yet. Not pushy or anything, just letting them know we're still here and waiting. How important and effective is having a website? And where do you suggest I look to get one. I think I can run it if I have a host, still a little confused on the whole website thing. I have a few on MSN for family but not a business one.

[Tom c.]

Well that makes me feel better, we aren't necessarily doing something "wrong" just focusing on the wrong ones. That helps ALOT! Thanks

So another question, how persistant should we be about a particular job? I personally like calling people up, tell them I'm just following up, wondered if they made a decision yet. Not pushy or anything, just letting them know we're still here and waiting. How important and effective is having a website? And where do you suggest I look to get one. I think I can run it if I have a host, still a little confused on the whole website thing. I have a few on MSN for family but not a business one.
I think following up bids with phone calls may make it seem like your hungry for work. I think knowing your overhead and what you need to make for it to be profitable are basics for owning your own bussiness no mater if its full or part time. ive taken accts in other towns hoping to build a route there only to find out I was wasting gas for driving across town for 1 acct. Your probably better off advertising more and getting more calls. Hope this helps good luck!!:waving:

[LawnboysInc]

But we are hungry for work! payup

Yea, I understand what your saying, we've concidered adding ourselves to the phone book. We did put an ad in the paper a while back, but had bad advice and it didn't work out. We put it in at the wrong time.

Lets paper the town! :cool2: Door hangers last year were a waste of time, still have half the box sitting here. Got alot of exercise but only 1 job! Walked the town last week to get contacts for next year. We'll see what we can get from them. We live in a pretty saturated area for lawn, so we are going to the next big town looking. Trying to not seem to desparate, but hard working at the same time. Such a fine line.

[mowin4dodge]

yellowpage ad. big as you can afford. doing a top notch job,word spreads. dont lowball em. good luck.

[noseha]

Welcome to the lucrative world of "lawn mowing". Lesson #1...Stay away from apartment complexes I don't know what the draw is, but this is the category of commercial work that gets the absolute most bidding traffic. This is why there is no loyalty in apts., either. You can work your tail-end off for 2 or 3 years for a complex, and they will drop you like a bad habit to save 20 bucks a month. Where abouts in Mich. are you?


yes ....I don't see what the draw is. unless you have a crew to run them. you can only count on them for one year. I woundn't go out of my way to mow them. a acct of that size is something you have to work for after years of mowing. do you have one crew and mowers to commit just to comm work? what have you had for complaints about quality?

[PMLAWN]

But we are hungry for work! payup

Yea, I understand what your saying, we've concidered adding ourselves to the phone book. We did put an ad in the paper a while back, but had bad advice and it didn't work out. We put it in at the wrong time.

Lets paper the town! :cool2: Door hangers last year were a waste of time, still have half the box sitting here. Got alot of exercise but only 1 job! Walked the town last week to get contacts for next year. We'll see what we can get from them. We live in a pretty saturated area for lawn, so we are going to the next big town looking. Trying to not seem to desparate, but hard working at the same time. Such a fine line.

But we are hungry for work! payup

Yes you are, and I have been in sales all my life and the best move you can make is to follow up after a bid. Keep in contact all the time, just call and ask if they made a decision, If not (99.9% of the time) ask what addition info they need to make the decision. You know for a fact that you are the best outfit for them, do them a favor and be sure they use you!!

I have found flyers to be the best for me but you are correct that the return is very small. It's all a numbers game, put more out and get more leads,
Keep moving forward, it will come to ya, Good luck

And never worry about getting your name out there looking desperate's called advertising:)

[LawnboysInc]

do you have one crew and mowers to commit just to comm work? what have you had for complaints about quality?

Right now we have one crew of 2 people. We have the ability to get more if we have the jobs. We haven't had complaints about out work, matter of fact once we get the jobs they usually come back. Our plowing jobs this year are all set and we only lost 2 from last year plus added 3 new ones. They call us. The 2 we lost were cause one closed up and the other gets sent to corporate who doesn't care who they pick. Someone lowballed way lower than it's worth. They can have it, it was all dirt and rough anyways. It's getting them to start with. I guess we just keep pushing. I've gotten a much better responce when I follow up. I know most of our jobs are cause I followed up and the others didn't. I gave them a reason to believe in us rather than someone else. But that's plowing and mowing seems to be a little different.

I'm waiting for a call back on an yellow page ad. We are going to look into some newspaper ads. We talked about it last night and we totally understand the large jobs and their downfalls. It's like putting your eggs in one basket. Great if you can afford it, but bad if you can't. So I think we'll work on getting smaller to med. size jobs and get as many as we can.

You guys have been great. Thanks a bunch.

[John Gamba]

Right now we have one crew of 2 people. We have the ability to get more if we have the jobs. We haven't had complaints about out work, matter of fact once we get the jobs they usually come back. Our plowing jobs this year are all set and we only lost 2 from last year plus added 3 new ones. They call us. The 2 we lost were cause one closed up and the other gets sent to corporate who doesn't care who they pick. Someone lowballed way lower than it's worth. They can have it, it was all dirt and rough anyways. It's getting them to start with. I guess we just keep pushing. I've gotten a much better responce when I follow up. I know most of our jobs are cause I followed up and the others didn't. I gave them a reason to believe in us rather than someone else. But that's plowing and mowing seems to be a little different.

I'm waiting for a call back on an yellow page ad. We are going to look into some newspaper ads. We talked about it last night and we totally understand the large jobs and their downfalls. It's like putting your eggs in one basket. Great if you can afford it, but bad if you can't. So I think we'll work on getting smaller to med. size jobs and get as many as we can.

You guys have been great. Thanks a bunch.


Good luck:waving: