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grassmanvt
11-08-2006, 05:08 PM
I've got a 97' ihi 28h excavator. It starts a little hard, seems a little worse when cold, I changed one fuel filter(all I could find), took glow pugs out, all look similar and glowed when hooked to power. Checked for power at wire to glow plug band. So, my question, how long does your glow plug light stay on? I was told it might be a bad timer/relay? Mine seems to stay on for about 5 seconds. It is a three cylinder isuzu engine and runs absolutely 100% after started, no hesitation or skip once it starts. Thanks.

ksss
11-08-2006, 10:08 PM
I assume you mean a J series. I don't think there has ever been an H. I had a 35J, 1997 model. I assume it had the same three cylinder Izuzu diesel. I never had any starting problems so I will guess. There was only one fuel filter on my 35J. The problem may be in the relay but if it was hard starting in warm weather, that does not sound like a glow plug problem. It maybe an air leak in the fuel system. That engine I believe is self priming, but if it has to build its prime up every morning than that would explain the hard starting. You may want to call Mike at Compact Excavator Sales in E-town, Ky. They are first rate people and offer first rate service. They have everything needed on hand to get you going. You may want to try them for answers if you can't find the problem.

Dirty Water
11-08-2006, 10:23 PM
I'm not sure if that engine has a diaphragm style boost pump, but its possible that it may be torn, and its not self priming itself very well.

gammon landscaping
11-08-2006, 10:38 PM
before i started taking off complicated stuff like a fuel system i think i would check my batterys. if one is going bad it just might not be spinning it fast enough. remember keep it simple stupid (kiss)

grassmanvt
11-08-2006, 11:50 PM
before i started taking off complicated stuff like a fuel system i think i would check my batterys. if one is going bad it just might not be spinning it fast enough. remember keep it simple stupid (kiss)

Yep, covered that already, new bigger battery, and took the starter off and had it checked out but your right, simple stuff first. Thanks.

grassmanvt
11-08-2006, 11:53 PM
I assume you mean a J series. I don't think there has ever been an H. I had a 35J, 1997 model. I assume it had the same three cylinder Izuzu diesel. I never had any starting problems so I will guess. There was only one fuel filter on my 35J. The problem may be in the relay but if it was hard starting in warm weather, that does not sound like a glow plug problem. It maybe an air leak in the fuel system. That engine I believe is self priming, but if it has to build its prime up every morning than that would explain the hard starting. You may want to call Mike at Compact Excavator Sales in E-town, Ky. They are first rate people and offer first rate service. They have everything needed on hand to get you going. You may want to try them for answers if you can't find the problem.

Your right 28j model, damn keys too close together. It does start a little slower than it should in average weather but seems worse in colder weather. Do you remember how long your glow light stayed on??? Just trying to rule that out. I think I might even replace the glow plugs and relay just to be sure but hate to throw money away if that stuff is ok.

ksss
11-09-2006, 02:40 AM
I was trying to remember. 5 sec. seems alittle short but it has been awhile. You might want to call IHI and ask. I am reasonably sure that it should stay on longer when it is colder. If it stays on the same amount of time regardless of how cold it is than the relay probably is the problem. When it was real cold I remember cycling the plugs several times before starting it. You may try that and see it helps. I did that by switching the key back from on to off to on again when the plug light when out. You could try and just replace the relay. If that does not cure the problem the fuel system may be the culprit. I would think that if the glow plugs warmed up when you tested them that they would be fine. I still have my parts and owners manual from my 35J it had a trouble shooting section in it. I will try and find that manual. I have it stored away somewhere.

RockSet N' Grade
11-09-2006, 09:30 AM
Finish checking the electrical system to rule that out completely. Check your ground to frame to make sure it is fully secured, check battery cables. Rule out simple electrical stuff and then move to next possibility.

janb
11-09-2006, 01:15 PM
5 sec is pretty short to generate any heat, I'd check with service to verify correct time, put test lamp on plug to verify time at plug, (rather than @ ind light). Then I would probably wire in a push button switch that bypasses relay, and hold in for desired time (I'm gonna guess closer to 20 - 30 sec @ VT temps), but... if it is tough to start warm, there is a fuel problem, (or worse a compression issue) i.e. starter speed / mechanical problem

I'd hate for you to spend time and $$ on GP's & relay if not necessary.

grassmanvt
11-09-2006, 02:05 PM
Ok, just tried it today, its much warmer than its been, about 60degrees, but I hadn't started the machine since yesterday, the glow pug stayed on its usual 5seconds but the machine started within 3-5 seconds. It takes much longer when 30 or 40 degrees so, I'm starting to lean towrads the realy, infact, I think I'm going to order one. Thanks for the other leads as well (might still be something else) But I have checked what I could for grounds, they all seem intact and tight. I checked the battery cables earlier when changing the batterey, they seem tight and ground from it is tight to frame. I had also earlier checked to see how long power was sent to glow plugs with a meter and it does cut power to plugs when indicator light goes out. What still makes me wonder though is that I checked to see how long the glow plug in my kubota tractor stayed on today and it only lit up for 2 or 3 seconds and it starts immediatly. I guess different engines and different injection systems will ary though.Heres one more fact though, when I tested the glow plugs directly with a battery and jumper cables, it took at least 5 seconds before the tip even startedto glow. With the timer going out that early and power going through a relay and band first, maybe it just isn't long enough with that much resistance to make any heat at all???

dozerman21
11-09-2006, 10:09 PM
grassmanvt- I think your problem has something to do with the engine priming itself, like Dirty Water stated. It could be something simple like a breather valve. You don't have a breater valve on your fuel cap do you? Or anywhere else? If you do, take it off and blow it out with compressed air. This happens to my dozer sometimes, especially in the summer when it's dusty. If I let that clog up, the fuel lines lose their prime and the engine will only spin until I prime it myself. This may not be your problem, but I have a feeling it's something related to fuel. I doubt that the glow plugs are the problem since it hasn't been that cold, but who knows. :confused:

Keep us posted!

xcopterdoc
11-10-2006, 07:16 PM
Easy way to check glow plugs and you don't even have to remove them. Hook test light to POS battery cable. Disconnect wires from glow plugs. Touch connector on top of glow plug. If test light comes on... glow plug is good. Hook everything back up. Connect test light to NEG batt terminal. Check for power at each glow plug, if there is power, then the relay and all connections are good.
If they check out good, change fuel filter (again), check for crap in tank. Check to make sure your fuel cutoff seloniod isn't hanging up.
I suspect you have the Isuzu engine. Check for fuel dilution in oil. The fuel system consists of 3 individual pumps, driven off the cam. One for each injector. When these go bad internally, it will cause a hard start and will also leak fuel into the engine crankcase.
Lastly, have a compression check performed and valves adjusted.

grassmanvt
11-10-2006, 07:56 PM
Easy way to check glow plugs and you don't even have to remove them. Hook test light to POS battery cable. Disconnect wires from glow plugs. Touch connector on top of glow plug. If test light comes on... glow plug is good. Hook everything back up. Connect test light to NEG batt terminal. Check for power at each glow plug, if there is power, then the relay and all connections are good.
If they check out good, change fuel filter (again), check for crap in tank. Check to make sure your fuel cutoff seloniod isn't hanging up.
I suspect you have the Isuzu engine. Check for fuel dilution in oil. The fuel system consists of 3 individual pumps, driven off the cam. One for each injector. When these go bad internally, it will cause a hard start and will also leak fuel into the engine crankcase.
Lastly, have a compression check performed and valves adjusted.

Thanks for all the info, any chance you'll be in Vt any time soon? Sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about this then me! I hate to get into something over my head.

xcopterdoc
11-10-2006, 11:13 PM
grassmanvt:
I work in the rental industry... whatever can go wrong. will go wrong!
Check out those things and get back to me.. I can dig up more info if needed. We have about 15 or so IHI's at our location of all different shapes sizes and ages, so I get a weekly workout. They pretty much stay on rent. Nice machines.
Let us know how it worked out.