PDA

View Full Version : Tips on stihl 4 mix engines


S man
11-15-2006, 09:16 PM
I wrote to stihl about my 4 mix product and got a call the next day. I learned some valuble information on the 4 mix engine. The guy told me to run only synthetic stihl 2 cycle oil and run it a littler leaner than rich. I've been using echo power blend and was told that's a no no. Maybe some of you on here that have had bad experiences with the 4 mix might have been using bad oil and gas which greatly affect the engine. How have everyone's 4 mix engines been running?

TheLawnBarber
11-15-2006, 09:41 PM
I run Stihl 4-mix as well and have used the Echo powerblend oil. I've been using it in my units for about a year now. Theres been no issues so far for me.

wriken
11-15-2006, 09:45 PM
the br600 I had for a short time, was running to what the tech's from stihl told the person at the dealership I bought it from, right rpm's etc. It just did'nt produce enough air out the tube. I did'nt use stihl oil.

ed2hess
11-15-2006, 09:47 PM
run only synthetic stihl 2 cycle oil and run it a littler leaner than rich. ?
So what kind of problems will be prevented by running it lean? Is this a solution for not have an adjustable carb?? And how did he suggest you mix this special blend?

Just Mow
11-15-2006, 10:15 PM
I use the Stihl HP oil and have not had any problems. The 600 does have adjustable carb. I don't understand why they told you to mix it lean.

jcltyson
11-15-2006, 10:35 PM
I've used Stihl and Husqavarna in my 4-mix Stihl FS 130 trimmer. Both seem to work fine. Starts quick and has good power at high rpm.

mowerman90
11-15-2006, 10:47 PM
I wrote to stihl about my 4 mix product and got a call the next day. I learned some valuble information on the 4 mix engine. The guy told me to run only synthetic stihl 2 cycle oil and run it a littler leaner than rich. I've been using echo power blend and was told that's a no no. Maybe some of you on here that have had bad experiences with the 4 mix might have been using bad oil and gas which greatly affect the engine. How have everyone's 4 mix engines been running?


So......did you expect the Stihl Rep to reccommend any oil other than Stihl?

ThirdDay
11-15-2006, 10:51 PM
Carbon build up in the new 4 mix engines have been the major problem according to my dealer. Stihl has come out with a decarbonizing cleaner that you need to use periodically to keep the 4 mix enignes clean. Nice!

jbell113
11-15-2006, 10:58 PM
I use low octane gas ( i know a no no) and echo oil and my stuff runs fine.

Richard Martin
11-16-2006, 03:52 AM
I mostly use Amsoil at 80:1 but have been known to use Shindaiwa at 50:1 when I ran out of Amsoil. I've been using it in a BR600 for over a year now with no problems.

Jusmowin
11-16-2006, 08:44 AM
I have both 550 and 600 Stihl bp blowers and use Opti mix and have never had a problem. Sometimes I think its just luck of the draw!

Total.Lawn.Care
11-16-2006, 08:53 AM
I have the following items listed in my Sig and I have been using the Stihl oil at 50:1 since they were new and I have not had any problems. I am thinking about going to Amsoil 2-Cycle in them as Martin does. But that will only be if I switch all my vehicles, etc. over to amsoil products.

DFW Area Landscaper
11-16-2006, 09:05 AM
The Stihl rep is lying. We have been using Wal-mart 2 cycle oil in our FS-100's for two full years. No problems at all. Extremely heavy use, too. One of them has beed used to mow over 5,400 lawns during that 2 year period.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

WJW Lawn
11-16-2006, 09:11 AM
My dealer says use echo power blend...so I do. Seems fine so far...but my 600 is new.

man of stihl
11-16-2006, 09:18 AM
i have been runnin that amsoil saber 100:1 mix but i run it a little richer as it says on the package for commercial use. i usually mix at about 80:1. it goes great it everything.. lawnboys. 2 stroke stihl stuff. husky saws. 4mix trimmers and i will be running it in my new br600 when i pick it up on saturday. would anyone recommend i run the normal 50:1 stihl for the first few tanks? or just throw the amsoil in it

Precision
11-16-2006, 09:23 AM
I run the Echo powerblend because it is what my dealer carries in the 5 gallon size.

None of my equipment has had any issues related to mix oil, fouling, running poorly or any such nonsense other than one backpack blower, but that was due to a former employee never running it at full throttle and the screen got carboned up. cleaned the screen and had a little talk with the employee. Problem solved.

FinalCut05
11-16-2006, 12:04 PM
I've been using the Stihl HP Ultra with great experiences. 1 Pull starts all the time, even after being left unused for a few days. Works great for me.

S man
11-16-2006, 01:04 PM
Okay, well the rep said that over time the echo and many other oils will damage the engine with carbon build up on the valves and cause it to stop running. I've used mine through 35 tank fulls so far anhd he said the damage might not be so bad if I switch my oil now. I'm going to check out my dealer today and see if he thinks it's good. Why buy an expensive cross breed 4 cycle engine is you can't run the right mixture and have it screw up later down the road? I kind of worry also about the catalytic muffler.

Edhess,
When you put the premium stihl oil in it over time there will a little left in the tank and every time you put new fuel in there it will get richer and cause problems. So running it with a little less oil will help by keeping the fuel + oil balanced. btw, 50:1 is what they reccomend.

scagwildcat
11-16-2006, 03:41 PM
a good sales man can sell you anything, you guys know what i mean, i run sthil oil/husq and echo oil never had a problem at all ! as far as the machines, every time they come out with somthing new there is going to be a problem with some thing until they find a fix for it, i wouldnt blame the oil... if you really think of it, when you buy amsoil or valvoline they are made the same way using the same oil, just some have more additives in them then others but the oil is the same. like for instance take tractor supply oil, do they make their own? no . but why is their name on the bottle ? as for my sthil equipment, my chain saws run great, my new 4 mix sthil starts hard since i used it with the dealer gas still in it, they must have used sthil oil, atleast i hope so !

Precision
11-16-2006, 08:26 PM
When you put the premium stihl oil in it over time there will a little left in the tank and every time you put new fuel in there it will get richer and cause problems. So running it with a little less oil will help by keeping the fuel + oil balanced. btw, 50:1 is what they reccomend.
I assume you are mixing your gas in a gas can separate from the gas reservoir on the piece of equipment. if so, why would residual gas in the equipment make the mix richer when you add more to it.

the gas in the machine is 50:1, the gas in the can is 50:1. mixed they would still be 50:1.

unless I am missing something, that doesn't make sense

Doing what you are saying would make for a "not sure" mix rate, but definately leaner.

lawnman_scott
11-16-2006, 09:17 PM
I think it was stihl trying to sell you their oil. I personally think it makes very little difference whant you use.

S man
11-16-2006, 09:52 PM
I assume you are mixing your gas in a gas can separate from the gas reservoir on the piece of equipment. if so, why would residual gas in the equipment make the mix richer when you add more to it.

the gas in the machine is 50:1, the gas in the can is 50:1. mixed they would still be 50:1.

unless I am missing something, that doesn't make sense

Doing what you are saying would make for a "not sure" mix rate, but definately leaner.

I mix the gas and oil in a separate 2 cycle labled gas can. What I mean with the extra fuel is that everytime you go to refuel the can and add oil there is a little still in there and after time that little bit makes extra oil and makes the ratio go down probably to 32:1 or lower. But again that's what the stihl guy told me. But he was very talkative about putting ONLY stihl oil in it and all the advancements going on in germany on the 4 mix. He said they're running 100:1 in tests right now.

S man
11-16-2006, 09:54 PM
I think it was stihl trying to sell you their oil. I personally think it makes very little difference whant you use.

I hear that stihl uses only certain companies to blend the oil so that it will run in the product right. The guy told me that carbon would screw the engine up over time if I keep using echo pb or any others. My other 2 cycle stuff has ran fine for over a year on it.

Just Mow
11-17-2006, 12:17 AM
Okay, well the rep said that over time the echo and many other oils will damage the engine with carbon build up on the valves and cause it to stop running. I've used mine through 35 tank fulls so far anhd he said the damage might not be so bad if I switch my oil now. I'm going to check out my dealer today and see if he thinks it's good. Why buy an expensive cross breed 4 cycle engine is you can't run the right mixture and have it screw up later down the road? I kind of worry also about the catalytic muffler.
Edhess,
When you put the premium stihl oil in it over time there will a little left in the tank and every time you put new fuel in there it will get richer and cause problems. So running it with a little less oil will help by keeping the fuel + oil balanced. btw, 50:1 is what they reccomend.

The 4-Mix units do not have catalytic mufflers. I dont know who told you this.
The problem with carbon build up is from not running the units wide open and the oil is not getting burned off properly. I run my units wide open for periods of time and have not had any carbon issues. Most of my BR600's are two years old.:drinkup:

Just Mow
11-17-2006, 12:21 AM
I hear that stihl uses only certain companies to blend the oil so that it will run in the product right. The guy told me that carbon would screw the engine up over time if I keep using echo pb or any others. My other 2 cycle stuff has ran fine for over a year on it.

The rep is talking abiut the issues with the other oils because of a test they did with Amsoil, Shindaiwa, Echo, and the different Stihl oils. The rep in my area showed me a slide show after the units were run for 24 hrs straight at wide open throttle. He said it is equivelant to one year use commercially. There was a huge difference between the Stihl HP Ultra synthetic oil and the Echo oil as far as carbon was concerned. That is why I started using this new oil. Ask your dealer to have the rep show you the slide show or the pamplet that they have out.

Precision
11-17-2006, 01:22 PM
I mix the gas and oil in a separate 2 cycle labled gas can. What I mean with the extra fuel is that everytime you go to refuel the can and add oil there is a little still in there and after time that little bit makes extra oil and makes the ratio go down probably to 32:1 or lower.

just a suggestion get two gas cans.

Here is what I do. I make a batch of mix gas in a 5 gallon can then fill the little can from that.

it is more accurate to pour 13 oz into a 5 gallon then fill up the blowers and push mowers from that and fill up a 1 gallon can for refilling the stick equipment. otherwise you are always trying to get 2.6 oz into the one gallon can and almost emptying it completely to fill up the blower. Seems silly to me.

I carry a 5 gallon straight gas (for ZTR refilling) a 5 gallon and a 1 gallon mix gas can. The 5 gallon is for blowers, trim mower and refilling the 1 gallon.

this way I can empty out the 5 gallon into equipment or the 1 gallon, then refill it with no concern for accidently making a rich or lean mix. Not to mention, I am not making mix gas every day.

Next year I am probably gonna buy a gas caddy (14G) on wheels with a hose and gas nozzle for bulk mix gas. That way I don't have to worry about employees messing up the ratio / equipment and I should get at least a week out of 14 gallons.

S man
11-17-2006, 06:07 PM
just a suggestion get two gas cans.

Here is what I do. I make a batch of mix gas in a 5 gallon can then fill the little can from that.

it is more accurate to pour 13 oz into a 5 gallon then fill up the blowers and push mowers from that and fill up a 1 gallon can for refilling the stick equipment. otherwise you are always trying to get 2.6 oz into the one gallon can and almost emptying it completely to fill up the blower. Seems silly to me.

I carry a 5 gallon straight gas (for ZTR refilling) a 5 gallon and a 1 gallon mix gas can. The 5 gallon is for blowers, trim mower and refilling the 1 gallon.

this way I can empty out the 5 gallon into equipment or the 1 gallon, then refill it with no concern for accidently making a rich or lean mix. Not to mention, I am not making mix gas every day.

Next year I am probably gonna buy a gas caddy (14G) on wheels with a hose and gas nozzle for bulk mix gas. That way I don't have to worry about employees messing up the ratio / equipment and I should get at least a week out of 14 gallons.


That sounds like a good idea. Because the blower takes up the most fuel. Right now I have a 5 gallon straight gas and a 2 gallon mix and a one gallon mix.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
11-17-2006, 08:09 PM
Been doing lawn service for over 12 years. One thing I have found is lawnmower branded oils suck.

First 2 years of business I only used Echo or some other like branded oil bought from either the lawnmower shop or Jthomas. About once every 3 months I would have to take the mufflers off all my two stroke tool and scrape carbon out of the exhaust port. This is time consuming and a pain in the butt....

Then I decided to switch to cheaper, Havoline general purpose TCW-III oil, mixed at 50 to 1 and with 87 Octane fuel and did not have to scrape a exhaust port ever again. Seriously.... I have checked exhaust ports just to be sure, but have not needed to clean one in over 10 years. I still have some two cycles tools that are the full 12 years old and they still run just fine...

I have used the same oil and gas mixture in the 4mix blowers the last 2 years or so I have used them and again, no problems.

Mic_bug
11-17-2006, 08:38 PM
87 or 91 octane and regular mix oil and I have yet to have a problem.

Maybe I run it a bit too hard...?

DFW Area Landscaper
11-18-2006, 09:41 AM
Rons Rightway Lawncare,

Is this Havoline oil you're talking about a 2 cycle oil, or is this the kind of oil you would use in a car or truck?

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Rons Rightway Lawncare
11-18-2006, 08:44 PM
It is 2 cycle oil, same stuff you would use in a Outboard engine for a boat.... It is a all purpose oil made for anything 2 stroke. Cheap too, a Quart of it is under 3 bucks, usually get them for around 2 bucks a Quart if I find it at the right place.

If I can't find Havoline, I will pick up a few Quarts of Vavoline, or Pennsoil, or any name brand 2 stroke oil that has TCW-III rating. All good stuff and no where near the carbon build up that Echo oil had when I used it.

DFW Area Landscaper
11-21-2006, 11:21 AM
I posted in another thread here at LawnSite and asked about the 2 cycle marine oil they sell at Wal-Mart. I was told that it is completely different because the lake water cools the boat motors and Stihl stuff is air cooled, therefore, runs much hotter.

TCW-III is the rating needed? I am tempted to try this out on all my Stihl stuff.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

S man
11-21-2006, 06:26 PM
I went to get the stihl synthetic and my dealer didn't have it. I ended up getting the orange bottle stuff. Got a six pack that makes 2 gallons each bottle.

Precision
11-21-2006, 06:51 PM
It is 2 cycle oil, same stuff you would use in a Outboard engine for a boat.... It is a all purpose oil made for anything 2 stroke. Cheap too, a Quart of it is under 3 bucks, usually get them for around 2 bucks a Quart if I find it at the right place.

If I can't find Havoline, I will pick up a few Quarts of Vavoline, or Pennsoil, or any name brand 2 stroke oil that has TCW-III rating. All good stuff and no where near the carbon build up that Echo oil had when I used it.

I recently bought some echo brand power whatever and paid $78 for a 5 gallon pail. That's $3.90 a quart. I would much rather use the stuff designed for the equipment, than risk something that certainly isn't. And at a whole $.90 difference per 12 gallons of gas it just isn't worth it, for me.

here is a discussion from a boating forum regarding TCW-III

www.rbbi.com/folders/recb/tcw31.htm

Rons Rightway Lawncare
11-21-2006, 09:40 PM
Precision, all I can say is be prepared to scrape some exhaust ports with that stuff.... You won't know you need to at first, but one day a few months from now after using that oil you will just say to yourself... Dang, this thing isn't as powerful as it used to be! That is when you take off the muffler and see the port nearly closed shut from carbon build up.

Save 90 cents, spend a extra dollar.... whatever! I just know that the stuff clogged my 2 stroke stuff up with carbon, so I switched and haven't looked back. I got stuff that is 12 years old, ran hard and still works great without needing any internal repairs, so I tend to believe that the oil I have used - various name brand oils with a TCW-III rating, from Walmart or Pep Boys or Autozone or where ever I happen across a few quarts - Works fine in these AIR cooled engines!

If you feel better about it because the oil you bought says Echo on the can then great! But I would bet you that Echo doesn't make that oil! I will stick to my Havoline, or Pennsoil or whatever I happen to pick up... I have had 12 years of good luck with it and haven't had to clean a exhaust port in forever so I will keep on using it.



And to change the subject just slightly, how many people here have ever had a commercial grade 2 stroke tool to need replacement of pistons, or rings, or bearings in the last 10-15 years? I believe you end up wearing out the rest of the tool long before you wear out the engine itself. Besides rubber fuel lines and grommets, and a spark plug once in a while, the only thing I can remember any of my 2 stroke stuff needing was a new clutch or two in string trimmers, and the starter recoil spring breaking on a trimmer and once on a blower.

Precision
11-22-2006, 06:48 AM
Precision, all I can say is be prepared to scrape some exhaust ports with that stuff.... You won't know you need to at first, but one day a few months from now after using that oil you will just say to yourself... Dang, this thing isn't as powerful as it used to be! That is when you take off the muffler and see the port nearly closed shut from carbon build up.

I haven't had to scrape an exhaust port, ever. But next week is slow, so I will pull off a couple of mufflers and look to see if I have any build up. From what I understand, a large part of that buildup would be ash caused by the gasoline additives that are designed to assist in cars but are just junk in 2 cycle equipment.

not saying either of us is particularly right or wrong, just that for the couple of $ per year, I am not willing to risk it.

And you are right about 2 cycle stuff usually dying prior to the engine dying, so maybe you have a point.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
11-22-2006, 08:37 AM
What I am telling you Precision, is in my opinion you are not risking anything by using a name brand TCW-III oil in these tools.

As far as gas causing the build up, that is possible. But I have used almost exclusively 87 Octane and having lived in Charlotte NC and near Fort Myers Florida, running lawn service at both places, still no issues. That is far apart enough that the gas blend was probably different.

Look, like you I thought what could be better than oil made by - or for to be exact - the company that builds the tools I use. But then if you use that same mentality, you would only use oil and filters and parts etc... from the dealership of the vehicles you drive, which for me would mean buying GM Goodwrench parts and fluids..... Who do you know that goes to the dealer to get GM, or Ford, or Mopar, oils and filters? Doesn't most people just go to the autoparts store and get 5 quarts of their favorite name brand oil and a fram or stp filter?

Heck thinking about oil I use in my trucks and cars and even mowers.... I used to buy havoline, or valvoline, or castrol, for when I changed my oil. Now since the gas prices have risen so much, so has oil. Most of these oils are well over 2$ per quart now. I go through alot of oil, so I started buying Exxon oil from Autozone for my oil changes, it was usually ALOT less money and meets the same standards as oil costing more. So far I have used it in everything I own for the last 2-3 years problem free

Richard Martin
11-22-2006, 02:17 PM
Doesn't most people just go to the autoparts store and get 5 quarts of their favorite name brand oil and a fram or stp filter?

Umm... Some of us do use the factory filter or better. I'll use either the Motorcraft FL-1A or the Purolator Pure One filter on my 5.0 and F-150. My wife's Cobalt gets Purolator Pure One filters and Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 synthetic. I wouldn't use a Fram filter on a lawnmower. STPs ain't bad, just not as good as the Purolator.

Precision
11-23-2006, 07:34 AM
What I am telling you Precision, is in my opinion you are not risking anything by using a name brand TCW-III oil in these tools.

As far as gas causing the build up, that is possible. But I have used almost exclusively 87 Octane and having lived in Charlotte NC and near Fort Myers Florida, running lawn service at both places, still no issues. That is far apart enough that the gas blend was probably different.

Look, like you I thought what could be better than oil made by - or for to be exact - the company that builds the tools I use. But then if you use that same mentality, you would only use oil and filters and parts etc... from the dealership of the vehicles you drive, which for me would mean buying GM Goodwrench parts and fluids..... Who do you know that goes to the dealer to get GM, or Ford, or Mopar, oils and filters? Doesn't most people just go to the autoparts store and get 5 quarts of their favorite name brand oil and a fram or stp filter?

Heck thinking about oil I use in my trucks and cars and even mowers.... I used to buy havoline, or valvoline, or castrol, for when I changed my oil. Now since the gas prices have risen so much, so has oil. Most of these oils are well over 2$ per quart now. I go through alot of oil, so I started buying Exxon oil from Autozone for my oil changes, it was usually ALOT less money and meets the same standards as oil costing more. So far I have used it in everything I own for the last 2-3 years problem free


First off, Happy Thanksgiving.

Second, my concern with TCW3 oils is that they are not designed for air cooled engines. Obviously you are not having issues with that, so my concern may not be valid.

Additionally, the Echo Power(something) brand is ashless. I don't know if the older stuff was and that may have been the cause of your build up, or not running at WFO often enough. But like I said, I will pull a couple of mufflers next week and see what I find.

S man
11-24-2006, 03:47 PM
I just put the mix with the stihl orange bottle fuel in my trimmer. Runs better right off. It has more torque it seems.

Precision
11-28-2006, 11:23 AM
I only pulled off one muffler. I got distracted by visitors. But I had no significant build up in the port. Maybe 1/32" to 1/16" on the port itself depending on where you look and about the same, maybe a hair thicker on the muffler side. This is a 3 year old line trimmer (straight 2 stroke engine) FS 80 I think. Used hard for over 2 years and intermittent service this year. I would say easily 250 hours, if not more. So between the Stihl Oil I started with and the Echo I have been using for the last year and a half, no problem with carbon or ash buildup.

zackvbra
05-14-2013, 12:03 PM
I use stihl. I have a fs90 and 70 trimmer, Br600, fc90 edgers, and hedge trimmers and chainsaws, The only exhaust port that clogs up, even though i run the same fuel in all of them, is on the fs 70, which is a commercial 2 cycle, not 4 mix. I find it a little strange, and so did my dealer. I only have to scrape it twice or three times a year, but still, i wonder.

Valk
05-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Which oil are are you running? E-free fuel?

zackvbra
05-14-2013, 10:00 PM
im running stihl hp oil, and 92 oct. ethanol free gas. I always do on my 2 stroke gas.

weeze
05-14-2013, 10:43 PM
I mix the gas and oil in a separate 2 cycle labled gas can. What I mean with the extra fuel is that everytime you go to refuel the can and add oil there is a little still in there and after time that little bit makes extra oil and makes the ratio go down probably to 32:1 or lower. But again that's what the stihl guy told me.

that is the worst advice i've ever read on lawnsite. :laugh:

there is no oil leftover in the can unless there is still gas leftover in the can. they completely mix together as one.

if you have 1 gallon of oil mix you add 1 gallon of gas with it. 2 gallon mix 2 gallons, 5 gallon mix 5 gallons of gas. it's always mixed at 50:1 if you add the right amount of fuel to match what the bottle of mix is designed to mix with.

SK94
05-15-2013, 12:00 PM
My dealer told me to put high octain gas, quality oil, and keep the engin at high rpm's to reduce cabon on the exost port. but that is why i use synthetic. i guss im just old fashon but i always use 50:1, but i have seen people use 100:1. i would beat the person who put that stuff in my equipment.

Valk
05-15-2013, 05:53 PM
Lots of testimonials around here on 80:1, even 100:1. But, I believe it takes a 100% synthetic oil...and Stihl Ultra and Amsoil Sabre are about the only 2-stroke oils I'm aware of that truly are 100% synthetic and not a blend. Agreed about going premium, but taking it a step further and going ethanol-free makes the most sense to me.

I've recently gone pure 4-cycle/no mix HHs...with (gulp!) no regrets so far. Time will tell...but I'm saving money every time I use them...which is several times/day.