What do you base your business on quantity or quality?

[Grass Kickin]

In reading a couple of posts here lately regarding profitability, where some are advising others to sell their Z and get a walk behind, it got me thinking.

As far as general lawn maintenance is concerned, do you base your business on big contracts or multiple smaller contracts? I would guess that someone cutting lawns with a walk behind can't do the volume of lawns that can be accomplished with a Z or a pair of Z's. The income would be less overall despite the lower cost of the walk behind.

My accounts are mixed in that I try to target larger accounts that obviously pay more but I do have about 40 residential homes. If it was my call I'd mow all the farm land accounts I could get. Acreage has been good to me.

I took over my brother in laws business where he made a ton of cheap, bad contracts that ultimately he never made money on. I've slowly culled and rearranged them to work in my favor, only about 4 or 5 remain and I will honor the contracts solely on principle because it is the right thing to do.

I guess my question is, do you look for a lot of small accounts that take less time to complete so you can do more of them, or do you try to get the big accounts where you will spend many hours until they are completed? I'm not talking desgin work here, I'm talking general lawn maintenance.

[PMLAWN]

Quility work at proper profit. That is the way an account should be looked at.
The number of them is determined by the hours of work you need to fill each week.

[Ric3077]

Exactly end of story, quality work priced right will generate more referrals than crappy cheap work...also, quality work will keep customers loyal, cheap work will keep customers till the lext lowballer offers $1 less per cut. However I do not agree with the sell your Z theory that seems to be going around...to me the key is speed, the quicker I finish one job, the quicker I can get to the next. If you have no money then yes don't get a Z but if you can get the money or a loan, get any equipment that will speed you up and make you more profitably. Whatever you do just don't lowball, nobody wins with lowballing.

[QualityLawnCare4u]

I think my biz name says it all. I had rather do fewer yards and have a sterling reputation than do a bunch and they look sloppy. I try to also pick accounts that, large or small, that I can get the most profit on. I made some mistakes over the years picking bad unprofitable acounts that I tried to make look great but the profit margin was so low not worth it do to the amount of time it took.

[Grass Kickin]

Nothing here insinuated cheap crappy sloppy work. The question was would you rather mow a ton of cookie cutter small jobs or do big jobs. This is cutting/trimming/blowing, that's all. Obviously we all stand by our reputations so it is automatically implied that every one of us would do our absolute best no matter what type/size of job it was.

Ric, I think we are on the same page. I rely on my Z's, I didn't understand why in the other posts people were recommending the walk behinds. When doing a bunch of small jobs, speed is key and I do not think that speed means poor quality. It merely gives one the ability to take on more work.

[Team-Green L&L]

We utilize a profit-per-hour equation that is a blueprint to exactly what we need to sell pre-season, during season, and post-season. If you know what each man hour for each employee position costs your company, all you need to do is add in your desired profit percentage and voila!

The accounts you choose should be the deciding factor in your performance. If I am mowing for a municipality that subbed me for nuisance properties then time is the factor. If I am working in a $1000000 plus community, well you can figure it out. Either way, I know what I am making, spending, and what I am going to make after expenses.

[ECS]

I prefer the bigger lawns and would rather spend the time on them, in one place rather than having to have more drive time and wear & tear on my truck. Sure a lot of real small lawns that can be done in 10 - 15 min with the minimum drop gate rate is great, but I still would prefer the acreage over the small ones. It is nice to be on one property for 3 - 4 hrs vs unloading, loading, driving, unloading, loading, driving, on and on all day.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

My business is based on a number of things ... and quality is way up at the top.

:weightlifter:

[Jpocket]

I base my business on Volume....Meaning Quantity at a reasonable level of quality. Most ppl. really can't tell the difference between a good job and a great job, esp. Commercial accounts. We aim to do a good job on alot of propertys.

I don't have the desire to do Immpecable work on a few properties.

[topsites]

As far as general lawn maintenance is concerned, do you base your business on big contracts or multiple smaller contracts? I would guess that someone cutting lawns with a walk behind can't do the volume of lawns that can be accomplished with a Z or a pair of Z's. The income would be less overall despite the lower cost of the walk behind.

You can't do yards smaller than an acre in less time with a Z, I run circles around the Z with my 48" Wb on anything smaller, you really need BIG wide open lots (acre+) to justify even loading the Z.

All the time I finish 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots with a Wb in the same or less time than a team of two Lco's with a Z.

It has to do with the properties of the machine: The Z is BIG, HEAVY, and powerful, it's like a Nascar.
The Wb is highly maneuverable, light, and nimble, more like a GoKart.
Where the Nascar will win on the big oval, the GoKart will likely finish first on the tricky tracks, if for no other reason than the Nascar can't hardly get around the track, it has no DISTANCE in which to build up speed.

The Wb out turns the Z as it runs around at almost top speed the entire time, the Z needs flat out DISTANCE:
The Z has SO much power, it first needs 10-15 feet just to build speed, you can't accelerate from 0 - 8+ mph in zip, and you will cover YARD while building speed... Once up to speed, you have to start slowing down again in time to turn, once again consuming distance: All this time spent speeding up / slowing down costs you the race in small lots.

The Z takes forever getting turned around, those big tires will tear up turf unless you do it right (and slow), where the Wb can take a turn at almost 6mph, with the Z it's a stop-and-go 3-point turn every time, the Z eats up a TON of time in the turns, and on smaller lots you will spend ALL your time in the turns.

Furthermore, the Wb gets deeper into the nooks and crannies, requiring less trimming and certainly you'd never need a pushmower... For the Lco's using the Z AND a pushmower, if they finish first with the Z then they have one more machine to contend with and by the time they're done with the 21" I am at least halfway through trimming.

My 48" Wb runs circles around my 60" Z on anything less than 3/4 acres guaranteed, between 3/4's to a full acre it's a toss up, and from an acre on up, the Z finally pulls out ahead, finishing the flat square acre in 30 minutes vs. the Wb's 45, still at twice the cost for -15 minutes, I really prefer acre+ for a Z but...

Don't forget the ROPS getting in the way and how the Z really loads the rig down, omg...
But it is nice, I'll give it that much.

[topsites]

I did mean to get with the thread's original point heh...

I did it both ways... After a harsh 3rd year, I went all out to get as MANY customers as I could in my 4th, and in order to do so I kept prices down...
I made out pretty good, worked my tail off and got a LOT of work done, it felt straight.
My peak for that year was 10 yards / day sustained (with a 48" Wb, mind you).
Gross was roughly 250+ on those days, I couldn't complain as it paid for the '05 Toro Wb.
With the '98 Wb I COULD do 10 / day, but I needed the '05 to make sure.

My next year (this year), I got tired of all the running around and decided instead to raise prices and concentrate...
My peak this year was more like 8 yards / day, also mostly with the 48" as I didn't get the Z until October...
I was amazed, first it took 5 but really 10 and sometimes 15 extra minutes per yard, I could NOT do 10 / day, and all for an extra $5...? I wondered about this but then I was out to prove a point.
While either machine did ok, I still used the '05 during peak, reserving the '98 for slower times.
Interestingly enough, I have earned as much if not more this year than last, it's just too early to tell but calculations thus far speak highly of the quality method.
Average gross on peak days was also 250+...
Meanwhile, the truck eats the MOST fuel by a mile, I found my fuel consumption to be down even thou the machines got ran a LOT more (this was the year I started with my 'standard double cut,' meaning triple and quad cuts were not unusual).
More work / yard but less running around sure felt like less actual work for more money, and better customer retention.
No, wait: BETTER CUSTOMER retention.

Quality kicks tail, you can do it either way but I really like quality.

[Grass Kickin]

Forgive me for being naive but I don't understand how a WB can be faster than a Z. Manuevering shouldn't be an issue as long as you have a trimmer. I trim all of my houses anyway so if I have to trim something I can't get at with a Z it is likely you can't reach it with a WB. Pushmower? What is that? lol

If you are cutting 10 houses with a WB in a day, How long is your day?

[SDNCLAWNCARE]

On the bottom of my business card it reads. " Quality over Quanity" enough said.

[Grass Kickin]

again, I think far too many are equating volume with poor workmanship. That is not the case.

[Tagg]

*** :) Quality and Commerical :) ***

[Tagg]

*** :) Quality and Commercial :) ***

[Prestige-Lawncare]

With Quality comes Quantity (if you want it)

[fiveoboy01]

I base my business on Volume....Meaning Quantity at a reasonable level of quality.

Why shoot for a "reasonable" level of quality, when you can strive for "top" quality?

Most ppl. really can't tell the difference between a good job and a great job, esp. Commercial accounts.

In my experience, that statement is dead wrong. Some people CAN and WILL tell the difference if you are not doing a top notch job, and they will dump you if they think someone can do a better job even at the same or slightly higher price.

For me, quality comes first, AT A PRICE. If the customer wants to pay my price, then I will do the property. If they don't, they can look for someone who is cheaper or a lowballer. Sure, some customers don't care that much about their property. Those are not the people I'm looking to perform services for.

I'd rather do fewer properties at a higher profit margain than a whole bucketload of them for cheap and make less.

But the customer has to get something for that higher price.

[YardPro]

Quility work at proper profit. That is the way an account should be looked at.
The number of them is determined by the hours of work you need to fill each week.

Bingo..

we have focused on the quality and not quantity. We have found a niche...
we are more expensive than most other companies, and actually use this as a selling point

[SDNCLAWNCARE]

With Quality comes Quantity (if you want it)


Very True statement.... The work will speak for itself. Nice comment

[BQLC]

Bingo..

we have focused on the quality and not quantity. We have found a niche...
we are more expensive than most other companies, and actually use this as a selling point
This is also my approach it also helps weed out the PITA'S.Customers that want a quality job are more willing to pay for it.

[MattsMowing3535]

I have an LCO up the street 1 block. Anouther down the road 3/4 mile. And a huge company full of mexicans that works everything. I always strive for 100% perfect yards becuse that way all of those other LCO's customers look at there nieghbors lawns and give me a call :)
I'd rather have 25 acounts I new how to mow well and could always be happy about when I left then 50 that I always had to look away from when I left.

[topsites]

Forgive me for being naive but I don't understand how a WB can be faster than a Z. Manuevering shouldn't be an issue as long as you have a trimmer. I trim all of my houses anyway so if I have to trim something I can't get at with a Z it is likely you can't reach it with a WB. Pushmower? What is that? lol

If you are cutting 10 houses with a WB in a day, How long is your day?

My day starts when I get out of bed and ends when I am done, during peak that's 7-8am until 10p or so... Thou I often get home before dark, dark isn't until 8p and then comes maintenance and this and that and before I know it, I hurry as much as possible but I swear to you it is 10p every single time before I get to sit down for a minute LOL.

As for the speed of the machine, every mower has a range of yards for which it is best designed, specifically:
A pushmower would be the fastest machine on tiny postage stamp lots (< 5k sq.ft.).
The Wb was and is designed for yards from just under 1/4 acre (~10k sq.ft.) to yards UP to an acre in size, this is where the Wb stands out in its class.
The Ztr is a heavy BIG machine best used in yards an acre and bigger, the Z will not pull ahead of the Wb on anything less, there's plain not enough space to really RUN the machine. Besides, at 3 times the cost you need to come out more than 1-2 minutes ahead, time you'll spend trimming the spots the Z couldn't get to but the Wb could and did is time wasted...

Last but not least, the weight of the Z on the trailer impairs my driving, I have to drive the truck slower when I have that much on there, slow down earlier, etc...

Has to do with using the right tool for the job.
It takes a lot less time to unload a pushmower vs. a Wb, hence the pushmower stands out in yards where a 30 second head start makes the difference AND if the yard is so small that you can't even get the Wb up to SPEED before you have to turn around again especially if the space in which you turn requires more than a simple mushroom-shaped turn.
The same applies with a Z, if the yard is so dang small that by the time you get up to the Z's top speed you have to start slowing down again, heck by that time I done got the Wb turned around, even more so if you have to waste time doing 3-point turns... The thing is, I can take turns with the Wb at almost top speed (4-5mph), where with the Z you fairly have to stop, then turn, then start back up again.

So each machine has a range of size lots it was designed for, use the right machine for the correct size lot and you come out ahead, every single time.

[Grass Kickin]

Topsites, I respect your opinion but I kind of think that your opinion is based on what might work best for you. It is true in my case too as I have no expereince with walk behind mowers other than the Scags and Buntons I grew up using in NY.....whole different ballgame.

I mow a ton of 1/4 acre lawns with my Z a 60" and not only is it more than adequate in turning and speed, it puts down a heck of a nice cut. True it is heavier but I have experience on it not to have to worry about ripping up lawns when I turn. I don't cut at full speed unless it is open acreage, just my preference. The Z doesn't have to work up to get to top speed. You push the levers forward and it goes. The size of the deck on this mower is likely larger than any WB. In essence, it would take a WB more passes and time to do what I do to complete a job.

I'm not trying to convince you, just telling you about my experience. The Z works for me even on the smaller lawns. There is no doubt in my mind the Z gets it done more efficiently for my business. I'm confident I spend the same amount of time trimming a lawn as anyone who doesn't use a Z. We do not leave massive amounts of grass uncut because the Z is quite capable of providing a close enough cut. The only disdvantage would be not being able to fit between obstacles which can occur because of the massive deck but isn't a problem for me on my accounts.

You made a good point about the Z costing more which is true but I am doing 20 to 23 in 6hrs. That is the efficiency and speed I was talking about. This leads to the ability to obtain more overall income.

As I said before I'd rather do the larger quality jobs for more income but I think for most of us, these numerous small accounts are the norm.

[PMLAWN]

Last but not least, the weight of the Z on the trailer impairs my driving, I have to drive the truck slower when I have that much on there, slow down earlier, etc...

.
You got to be kidding, If a Z slows down your truck, It's time to go truck shopping:laugh:

[Jpocket]

Why shoot for a "reasonable" level of quality, when you can strive for "top" quality?



In my experience, that statement is dead wrong. Some people CAN and WILL tell the difference if you are not doing a top notch job, and they will dump you if they think someone can do a better job even at the same or slightly higher price.

For me, quality comes first, AT A PRICE. If the customer wants to pay my price, then I will do the property. If they don't, they can look for someone who is cheaper or a lowballer. Sure, some customers don't care that much about their property. Those are not the people I'm looking to perform services for.

I'd rather do fewer properties at a higher profit margain than a whole bucketload of them for cheap and make less.

But the customer has to get something for that higher price.


I never said that we work cheap, I charge the going market rate and higher on most jobs. And im not say tat we do a halfazzed job, im say that we do a GOOD job rather than a perfect job. Most ppl around here don't want to pay for what a perfect immpecable job costs anyway. They just want it to look good when it's done.

[Jpocket]

My day starts when I get out of bed and ends when I am done, during peak that's 7-8am until 10p or so... Thou I often get home before dark, dark isn't until 8p and then comes maintenance and this and that and before I know it, I hurry as much as possible but I swear to you it is 10p every single time before I get to sit down for a minute LOL.

As for the speed of the machine, every mower has a range of yards for which it is best designed, specifically:
A pushmower would be the fastest machine on tiny postage stamp lots (< 5k sq.ft.).
The Wb was and is designed for yards from just under 1/4 acre (~10k sq.ft.) to yards UP to an acre in size, this is where the Wb stands out in its class.
The Ztr is a heavy BIG machine best used in yards an acre and bigger, the Z will not pull ahead of the Wb on anything less, there's plain not enough space to really RUN the machine. Besides, at 3 times the cost you need to come out more than 1-2 minutes ahead, time you'll spend trimming the spots the Z couldn't get to but the Wb could and did is time wasted...

Last but not least, the weight of the Z on the trailer impairs my driving, I have to drive the truck slower when I have that much on there, slow down earlier, etc...

Has to do with using the right tool for the job.
It takes a lot less time to unload a pushmower vs. a Wb, hence the pushmower stands out in yards where a 30 second head start makes the difference AND if the yard is so small that you can't even get the Wb up to SPEED before you have to turn around again especially if the space in which you turn requires more than a simple mushroom-shaped turn.
The same applies with a Z, if the yard is so dang small that by the time you get up to the Z's top speed you have to start slowing down again, heck by that time I done got the Wb turned around, even more so if you have to waste time doing 3-point turns... The thing is, I can take turns with the Wb at almost top speed (4-5mph), where with the Z you fairly have to stop, then turn, then start back up again.

So each machine has a range of size lots it was designed for, use the right machine for the correct size lot and you come out ahead, every single time.

Man you make your operation harder than it really needs to be. If the Z fits us it.

[Grass-Masters]

Man you make your operation harder than it really needs to be. If the Z fits us it.

I like this kind of thinking, I just got 2 customers this week from a company that uses a Z on a 1/4 acre lot. Over time they wrecked there lawns. I agree if it is not big enogh to use the machine, why use it. There is no way I could cut on my Z faster than my walk behind on 1/4 - 1/2 acre lots. But I am glad there are people that think this way, I am a small company and can use all the accounts I can get, Tear them up!!!!!!!!!

[dwlah]

I think the question is would you rather have twelve 1/4 acre yards or one 3 acre account that paid the same as the twelve accounts
I picked up 2 postage stamp yards today :clapping: Most of my other accounts are 3/4+ acres
I got these accounts because the guy that was supposed to meet my neighbor I work with didnt show up to meet the customers
I think equipment wise you have to have the correct mower for the yard
I wouldnt think of putting a Z on those two small yards just like I wouldnt think of trying to do the church ball fields with a 21"pushmower
I said all that because those two accounts pay together about the same as one 3/4 acre account

[JJLandscapes]

top quality has to be done but you will be out of business here if you cant figure out how to do that as fast as humanly possible and squeeze in alot of houses

To me around here id say 85% of LCO's do the same quality of work there %5 that charge very high and spend a long time on your property but there isnt a noticeable difference . and then theres 10% who do a terrible job no matter what

except for that bottom 10% of bad lcos there are very very few homeowners that can tell the difference between the quality of cuts its more factors like price, customer service, being reliable that i think most customers leave.

Thats atleast the main reason i hear from new customers everytime. You would be surprised how many people say you are the first company who showed up every week... The owners where very mean... they just kept raising prices every year without even a warning or asking


i hear those over and over and over.. but i have not once heard the didnt sharpen the blades, there edge wasnt straight,,i see rutting etc

[Az Gardener]

I'm surprised that after 3 pages this has not been touched on. Fewer jobs mean fewer clients to deal with I think that is a good thing. Also less travel time is also good especially if you are dealing with employees. I think you have answered you own question you like being on a large property for 3-4 hours. Me too but I like it with 4-5 employees at one house for 3-4 hours.

[Jpocket]

top quality has to be done but you will be out of business here if you cant figure out how to do that as fast as humanly possible and squeeze in alot of houses

To me around here id say 85% of LCO's do the same quality of work there %5 that charge very high and spend a long time on your property but there isnt a noticeable difference . and then theres 10% who do a terrible job no matter what

except for that bottom 10% of bad lcos there are very very few homeowners that can tell the difference between the quality of cuts its more factors like price, customer service, being reliable that i think most customers leave.

Thats atleast the main reason i hear from new customers everytime. You would be surprised how many people say you are the first company who showed up every week... The owners where very mean... they just kept raising prices every year without even a warning or asking


i hear those over and over and over.. but i have not once heard the didnt sharpen the blades, there edge wasnt straight,,i see rutting etc

EXACTLY...There comes a point when your doing such a good job, that ONLY YOU know how good it really is.

[topsites]

Yes it does have a lot to do with doing what works for you, agreed.

[HOOLIE]

I guess my question is, do you look for a lot of small accounts that take less time to complete so you can do more of them, or do you try to get the big accounts where you will spend many hours until they are completed? I'm not talking desgin work here, I'm talking general lawn maintenance.

I'm kind of surprised by this...do you mean that you make more dollars per hour off larger lawns??? I have (for many years now) found the exact opposite to be true. A tiny lawn that you're in and out of in 20 minutes you can get $35 for...seems like when you get into the higher-end neighborhoods with acre+ lots, there is always somebody willing to mow for $50...

With those high-end customers you can upsell a lot of services that are a hard sell with the cookie-cutter lots, but strictly from a dollar per hour analysis on lawn maintenance the tiny lots rule...I do some townhouses that pay $27 and I can easily gross $100+ an hour solo on those streets. If I had my way that's all I would do.

[Prestige-Lawncare]

I'm kind of surprised by this...do you mean that you make more dollars per hour off larger lawns??? I have (for many years now) found the exact opposite to be true. A tiny lawn that you're in and out of in 20 minutes you can get $35 for...seems like when you get into the higher-end neighborhoods with acre+ lots, there is always somebody willing to mow for $50...

With those high-end customers you can upsell a lot of services that are a hard sell with the cookie-cutter lots, but strictly from a dollar per hour analysis on lawn maintenance the tiny lots rule...I do some townhouses that pay $27 and I can easily gross $100+ an hour solo on those streets. If I had my way that's all I would do.

I agree with this ... but ... it is a little off topic. The discussion was about Quality or Quantity. In the case with smaller properties, you can do more "properties" ... (which may be considered "quantity") ... and still provide a high level of quality.

What I was to believe the conversation to be was if we sacrificed quality for quantity.

The example above shows were you can mow smaller square foot properties, and make a higher hourly rate .... which is true in many cases.

[HOOLIE]

Actually...I went back and re-read the original post...and really other than the title he doesn't say anything about quality vs. quantity...:confused: he seemed to imply that acreage was more of a money-maker than smaller lots...I guess saying that he can do better quality on the larger lots?

You can do the best quality work on your most profitable lots...you have the most room to play with.