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View Full Version : 13 versus 16 HP for Quick 36


LarryF
11-22-2006, 04:48 PM
I did a search on this topic but didn't see anything, so I thought I'd ask. Is there really a compelling reason for getting an engine with the extra 3 HP? It appears that a lot of LawnSite members have bought the Quick 36 and therefore must have made a decision regarding which size engine to get. Would you share with me what pushed you in which ever direction you took? And for you who got the 13 HP, did you regret it and would you choose a 16 if you could do it over again?

WJW Lawn
11-22-2006, 06:44 PM
Larry...I have the 16hp which comes with the Samurai. However...the 3 extra hp wasn't what sold me on the unit...it was the Kawasaki over the Briggs. Nothing against Briggs...they make great motors...I just wanted a Kawi. But 3 hp wont make a difference on the 36....matter fact 16 horse is probably overkill! So...if you decide on the 13...you'll still be making a great choice. Again 3hp makes no difference in my opinion...you wouldnt notice it.

lawncare18
11-22-2006, 07:13 PM
I like the brigs.. find it easy to get parts on any brigs enigine if you need them. I got the 13hp super fox and love it. Use it to mow about 15 yards a week and it is perfect. I am most likly going to buy the quick44 also becuase I have been so happy with gary and his staff.

hwew
11-22-2006, 08:10 PM
I also have the Samurai with the 16 Hp. Kawasaki engine I also believe it is overkill but that is ok. (Less stress on the engine should mean longer life) The reason I also purchased the Samurai is because of the Kawasaki engine. I feel it is a smoother running engine but most of all it is a much quieter engine due to the nice industrial muffler.

abcfamily
11-22-2006, 08:29 PM
Does anyone know when the 44" is coming out?
What kind of updates it will have??
Cost???

BUCKEYE MOWING
11-22-2006, 11:07 PM
The 44 is coming in Feb. KAW motor with handle and control lever modifications ...I have heard the cost is somewhere around $3000....

S man
11-23-2006, 01:53 AM
Larry...I have the 16hp which comes with the Samurai. However...the 3 extra hp wasn't what sold me on the unit...it was the Kawasaki over the Briggs. Nothing against Briggs...they make great motors...I just wanted a Kawi. But 3 hp wont make a difference on the 36....matter fact 16 horse is probably overkill! So...if you decide on the 13...you'll still be making a great choice. Again 3hp makes no difference in my opinion...you wouldnt notice it.

The extra 3 hp helps when using the step saver.

A.D Services
11-23-2006, 02:03 AM
id go with the 16hp better to be safe than sorry:hammerhead: id escpecially want the KAW they have some real power and they last a lot longer IMO

WJW Lawn
11-23-2006, 10:46 AM
id go with the 16hp better to be safe than sorry:hammerhead: id escpecially want the KAW they have some real power and they last a lot longer IMO


I agree...I think Kawasakis last longer too

WJW Lawn
11-23-2006, 11:40 AM
But I am curious...how many hours can you actually get out of a Kawasaki?? Ive heard alot which is why i got one...but what's a realistic number?

metro36
11-23-2006, 11:50 AM
But I am curious...how many hours can you actually get out of a Kawasaki?? Ive heard alot which is why i got one...but what's a realistic number?
My dads lazer z is supposed to get 2000 hours on the engine. It will probably be traded in before it gets that many hours.

LarryF
11-23-2006, 11:51 AM
Larry...I have the 16hp which comes with the Samurai. However...the 3 extra hp wasn't what sold me on the unit...it was the Kawasaki over the Briggs. Nothing against Briggs...they make great motors...I just wanted a Kawi. But 3 hp wont make a difference on the 36....matter fact 16 horse is probably overkill! So...if you decide on the 13...you'll still be making a great choice. Again 3hp makes no difference in my opinion...you wouldnt notice it.

id go with the 16hp better to be safe than sorry:hammerhead: id escpecially want the KAW they have some real power and they last a lot longer IMO

I agree...I think Kawasakis last longer too

WJW Lawn,

Your two posts shown above seem to be saying different things, so that confuses me somewhat. I don't have to be convinced that Kawasaki engines are good, because I know they are since I have a 23 HP KAW in my Exmark. But there is a big difference in the current prices of the least and most expensive Quick 36, about 700 bucks or more than one-third above the cost of the cheapest, the Super Fox. And that, of course, is why I asked the question posed in the first post of this thread. I know that one gets what he pays for, and the Kawasaki engine is a twin; whereas, the Briggs are singles. If any have been following my posts on the Q36, I guess it's obvious that I only want it for some real nasty hills on my property, and I already have a ZTR for all the rest. So I won't be using the Q36 for many hours a year, probably no more than 35 to 40. That means I'm not really too concerned with super long engine life, but there is another aspect of the Kawasaki that I like. Or perhaps I should say an aspect of the Briggs that concerns me, and that is that in other posts, some have reported that the Briggs smoke big time on hills. Gary P. even admitted it in a follow-up post, and even though he said it wasn't really anything to worry about, I doubt if the Kawasaki engine does that. Almost all of my use for a Q36 will be on hills, and I'm not especially fond of walking behind a smoking engine, even if it is for less than an hour a week, so I'm leaning toward the Kawasaki too.

Haven't made up my mind yet, however, so if any others have comments to make about these engines, I would very much like to get them. And thanks for those of you who have already provided some.

FATWEASEL
11-23-2006, 01:40 PM
Seems like you answered your own question. Get the Kawasaki! You know you'll be kickin yourself if the Briggs starts smoking on the first hill you do. Especially since thats what it's indended role is for you.

Besides, I'd bet if you ever decide to sell the mower, it would be alot easier to get rid of the Samurai.

A.D Services
11-23-2006, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=FATWEASEL]Seems like you answered your own question. Get the Kawasaki! You know you'll be kickin yourself if the Briggs starts smoking on the first hill you do. Especially since thats what it's indended role is for you.

Besides, I'd bet if you ever decide to sell the mower, it would be alot easier to get rid of the Samurai.[/QUOTe

yep the kawasaki is definitly a selling point when you want to get rid of it.
and concerning the briggs think of it this way a briggs is a homeowner motor if you want some thing that is going to last get a kawasaki

LarryF
11-24-2006, 10:18 AM
Seems like you answered your own question. Get the Kawasaki! You know you'll be kickin yourself if the Briggs starts smoking on the first hill you do. Especially since thats what it's indended role is for you.

Besides, I'd bet if you ever decide to sell the mower, it would be alot easier to get rid of the Samurai.

yep the kawasaki is definitly a selling point when you want to get rid of it.
and concerning the briggs think of it this way a briggs is a homeowner motor if you want some thing that is going to last get a kawasaki

I don't consider resale to be something which should influence my purchase of a lawnmower. My original question pertained to whether or not an extra 3 HP made a difference for the Quick 36, and a few of the responses put that one to sleep. I interpreted the answers to be a resounding NO. But afterwards I remembered the comments in some other posts about the ones with Briggs engines smoking on hills, so I brought that up too hoping to get some more feedback from those who have a Briggs-driven Q36. None have shown up, however, but it's still a concern for me. Gary P. of Better Outdoor Products admitted he has seen the smoking happen too, and since he appears to be very conscientious, I'm wondering if a design change isn't in the works so that after all of the 2006 Q6 mowers with Briggs engines are sold, maybe the 2007 models will have a different engine. I'm not negative about Briggs engines, by the way, but that company manufactures many different styles of engines, and it seems now that the Intek just isn't one that can easily tolerate operation while tilted 25-to-35 degrees. It might be that engines by other manufacturers have that restriction as well.

GPDesign1
11-24-2006, 01:31 PM
Larry:

Any engine will smoke if one stands it on end...

The reference I made to having seen the "smoking issue" occured as I was bringing the mower down a fairly long 30+ degree slope. No fault of the Briggs... it'd happen on any engine.

Just wanted to "clear the air" on that one (pun intended):laugh:

Have a great weekend!

gp

LarryF
11-24-2006, 03:00 PM
Larry:

Any engine will smoke if one stands it on end...

The reference I made to having seen the "smoking issue" occured as I was bringing the mower down a fairly long 30+ degree slope. No fault of the Briggs... it'd happen on any engine.

Just wanted to "clear the air" on that one (pun intended):laugh:

Have a great weekend!

gp

Thanks for chiming in Gary. I don't recall anyone reporting having encountered a smoking engine with the Kawasaki 16 HP on a Quick 36, so I assumed it happened only to the B&S engines you provide. And I thought the anecdote you mentioned earlier about your own experience had to do only with a single-cylinder Briggs. I don't anticipate that I would ever stand a lawn-mower engine on end, but I must confess that I don't understand why the smoking occurred at about 30 degrees for an engine that is pressure lubricated. I might not be surprised if it were splash lubricated as were some of the Briggs engines of long ago, but that isn't the case for an Intek (I don't think). Maybe someone who has a lot of experience with engines can jump in and help me out here. Decades ago I use to fly a small plane with a 75 HP, air-cooled engine, and there were times when the engine was almost 90 degees from horizontal. I don't remember an engine ever smoking because of being in that attitude, and it seems to me that it shouldn't if it is pressure lubricated.

GPDesign1
11-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Larry:

The engine in your plane had what's referred to as a "dry sump". Dry sump engines have two oil pumps; one to pressure feed oil to the rotating parts, the second to vacuum oil from the crankcase and send it back to a remote oil tank. It's just one of the things they do to make sure the engine is able to operate at any angle (important on an airplane for obvious reasons!).

Lawnmower engines (pressure-lubed or otherwise) have wet-sump engines. Since the crankcase is full of oil, when the engine is tilted beyond certain limits, the oil is free to flow up into the cylinder (on the underside of the piston), up cylinder head drain passages, into crankcase vent tubes, up the pushrod tubes, etc. It can then slip past piston rings, valve guide seals or whatever other "hole" it can find and into the combustion chamber. The result is billowing clouds of oil smoke. This is not a Briggs phenomenon... it's true of any wet-sump four stroke.

In tomorrow's lesson, we'll learn about what happens when the oil pump pickup gets above the oil level in the crankcase... An explosive topic!

:drinkup:

gp

LarryF
11-24-2006, 04:08 PM
Larry:

The engine in your plane had what's referred to as a "dry sump". Dry sump engines have two oil pumps; one to pressure feed oil to the rotating parts, the second to vacuum oil from the crankcase and send it back to a remote oil tank. It's just one of the things they do to make sure the engine is able to operate at any angle (important on an airplane for obvious reasons!).

Lawnmower engines (pressure-lubed or otherwise) have wet-sump engines. Since the crankcase is full of oil, when the engine is tilted beyond certain limits, the oil is free to flow up into the cylinder (on the underside of the piston), up cylinder head drain passages, into crankcase vent tubes, up the pushrod tubes, etc. It can then slip past piston rings, valve guide seals or whatever other "hole" it can find and into the combustion chamber. The result is billowing clouds of oil smoke. This is not a Briggs phenomenon... it's true of any wet-sump four stroke.

In tomorrow's lesson, we'll learn about what happens when the oil pump pickup gets above the oil level in the crankcase... An explosive topic!

:drinkup:

gp

Nice explanation Gary! Thanks! Can't wait for tomorrow's lesson.:)

The plane I mentioined was an Aeronca Champ, vintage 1947, and I was flying it in the early 1950s. So many years ago that I didn't remember if it had a separate oil tank. But I guess it must have.

FATWEASEL
11-25-2006, 01:58 AM
Nice explanation Gary! Thanks! Can't wait for tomorrow's lesson.:)

The plane I mentioined was an Aeronca Champ, vintage 1947, and I was flying it in the early 1950s. So many years ago that I didn't remember if it had a separate oil tank. But I guess it must have.

Cooool! Did you ever know Orville or Wilbur?;)








Just kiddin':laugh: *trucewhiteflag*

LarryF
11-25-2006, 07:10 AM
Cooool! Did you ever know Orville or Wilbur?;)





Just kiddin':laugh: *trucewhiteflag*

Understood. I only mentioned it because whoever designed that engine, which by the way didn't look too much different from today's latest air-cooled engines, managed to avoid the smoking engine problem. :clapping: :clapping:

I'm also impressed by the fact that 4-cycle motorcycle engines don't seem to have that problem, they often operate oriented at angles far from a horizontal plane, and they certainly don't have a remote oil tank. At least they didn't on the bikes I rode, also decades ago. But maybe the mower Kawasaki engines have design features borrowed from those used for the motorcycle engines, and that could explain why we haven't seen similar complaints about the Kawasakis.

LarryF
11-27-2006, 11:36 AM
Larry:

Any engine will smoke if one stands it on end...

The reference I made to having seen the "smoking issue" occured as I was bringing the mower down a fairly long 30+ degree slope. No fault of the Briggs... it'd happen on any engine.

Just wanted to "clear the air" on that one (pun intended):laugh:

Have a great weekend!

gp

One of the current polls here at LawnSite is the question of what engine is used in walk-behind mowers, and Kawasaki is far in the lead.

http://www.lawnsite.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1230

Has anyone with a Kawasaki-powered walk-behind mower ever experienced it smoking on hills? ..............ANYONE???????

jameson
11-27-2006, 01:06 PM
We have the 16hp Briggs ELS on our Q36 - and I cannot recall it ever smoking - even when used on our steepest hillside.

LarryF
11-27-2006, 02:14 PM
We have the 16hp Briggs ELS on our Q36 - and I cannot recall it ever smoking - even when used on our steepest hillside.

Thanks James! Can you estimate how steep were the steepest? And how wide and long were they? Do you mow them up and down or across the face of the hill? One person who has two Quick 6 mowers, one with the 13HP and the other with the 16HP Briggs said that they will climb any slope you can walk up, which sure impressed me favorably. But the occassional reports of the Briggs engines smoking on hills has me a bit uneasy, so I'm pleased to hear that you had not encountered it.

jameson
11-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Thanks James! Can you estimate how steep were the steepest? And how wide and long were they? Do you mow them up and down or across the face of the hill? One person who has two Quick 6 mowers, one with the 13HP and the other with the 16HP Briggs said that they will climb any slope you can walk up, which sure impressed me favorably. But the occassional reports of the Briggs engines smoking on hills has me a bit uneasy, so I'm pleased to hear that you had not encountered it.

Easily a 25 deg slope - maybe more in spots - my guys mow across the slope heading up the hill (if that makes sense) - they follow the contour of the terrain - this particular slope at its steepest is probably 15' x 30'.

LarryF
11-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Easily a 25 deg slope - maybe more in spots - my guys mow across the slope heading up the hill (if that makes sense) - they follow the contour of the terrain - this particular slope at its steepest is probably 15' x 30'.

Sure it makes sense. Crystal clear, in fact.

The guy I mentioned before with both a 13HP and 16HP Q36 only had the smoke occur with the 13. His exact words were "Had it happen on one slope with the 13 hp. Going straight down a 50-60 degree hill that was 50' high. It would smoke going down hill almost every time."

Must have been almost like going down a long, steep bob-sled trail. My hills are steep, but nothing like that. So armed with what you have told me plus his description of what was going on when the smoke appeared, I'm relaxing a bit and starting to think the smoking problem most likely isn't going to be one for me if I mow across the face of my hill as you descibed your guys are doing.

Thanks a lot for the input.

I still haven't heard of a Kawsaki on a walk-behind mower smoking on hills, so I'm assuming there aren't any. If anyone knows otherwise, I'd like to know about it and a description of what the hill was like and how it was being mowed.

jameson
11-27-2006, 05:19 PM
His exact words were "Had it happen on one slope with the 13 hp. Going straight down a 50-60 degree hill that was 50' high. It would smoke going down hill almost every time."


Ha - :laugh: - I'd pay to see this guy heading down a 55 degree - 50' high - slope w/his Q36 or any other mower (what do ya do when ya get to the bottom? :dizzy:). I'd take his story with a grain of salt - a BIG grain of salt.

LarryF
11-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Ha - :laugh: - I'd pay to see this guy heading down a 55 degree - 50' high - slope w/his Q36 or any other mower (what do ya do when ya get to the bottom? :dizzy:). I'd take his story with a grain of salt - a BIG grain of salt.

Well, I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean I don't believe others might. I've never operated a walk-behind hydrostatic mower, but I'm told one can control the speed in a manner other than manually pulling back on it as I have to with my 21" belt-driven mower. I didn't bother to include the rest of his story, but the next two sentences were:

"This was a large apartment complex that was on 5 different levels with steep hills between each level. I decided the terrain was working my equipment too hard and used my escape clause and got out of the contract."

LarryF
11-28-2006, 09:15 PM
One of the current polls here at LawnSite is the question of what engine is used in walk-behind mowers, and Kawasaki is far in the lead.

http://www.lawnsite.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1230

Has anyone with a Kawasaki-powered walk-behind mower ever experienced it smoking on hills? ..............ANYONE???????

Still no response to this question. Am I to take that to mean that of all the Kawasaki-powered walk-behind mowers used bY LawnSite members and their employees, there has never been one that ever smoked when on a hill? NEVER? NOT A SINGLE INSTANCE? If that's the case, it sure seems like strong evidence of Kawasaki's high quality. There have been repeated reports that happened with Briggs engines even though according to current results of the poll referred to above for walk-behind mowers, Kawasaki engines outnumber Briggs by 9 to 1. My personal experience with Briggs engines has always been positive, so I'm a bit surprised by what I'm seeing here.

PTP
11-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Still no response to this question. Am I to take that to mean that of all the Kawasaki-powered walk-behind mowers used bY LawnSite members and their employees, there has never been one that ever smoked when on a hill? NEVER? NOT A SINGLE INSTANCE? If that's the case, it sure seems like strong evidence of Kawasaki's high quality. There have been repeated reports that happened with Briggs engines even though according to current results of the poll referred to above for walk-behind mowers, Kawasaki engines outnumber Briggs by 9 to 1. My personal experience with Briggs engines has always been positive, so I'm a bit surprised by what I'm seeing here.
I don't ever remember mine smoking on hills. I have taken it up to about 30 deg or so - maybe a little steeper - but don't remember any smoke. If there was any, there sure was not a big cloud of it.

Now, it almost always smokes a little on startup in the morning. Not a lot but a little.

LarryF
11-28-2006, 11:20 PM
I don't ever remember mine smoking on hills. I have taken it up to about 30 deg or so - maybe a little steeper - but don't remember any smoke. If there was any, there sure was not a big cloud of it.

Now, it almost always smokes a little on startup in the morning. Not a lot but a little.

Thanks for the response. And although you didn't say, I guess I can presume that yours is a Kawasaki? I'm not an expert on this, but I believe the start-up smoke you mentioned is probably just from enriching the fuel-air mixture with the choke, and it probably stops after a few seconds. I would also guess that it's not black, rather it's white or gray. Gary P. of Better Outdoor Products said that all engines will smoke if tilted enough, because when that occurs, engine oil finds its way into the combustion chamber. But so far, I've only heard of Quick 36 owners with a Briggs engine reporting the smoke. I don't think anyone with a Samurai has reported it, and in fact, so far I haven't been able to find anyone with a Kawasaki in his WB mower, irrespective of the manufacturer, who has encountered smoke on steep hills.