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View Full Version : Nobody said plumbers were smart....


SprinklerGuy
11-22-2006, 07:10 PM
Another straggler blowout today...I asked the guy to drain the system and I would get to it next week....he insisted there was no way to turn off the valve in the basement....I decided to go look.....

First pic is of the ball valve hitting the water heater.....he was right, can't turn it off....2nd pic is the oki rig fix....

Look closely and you'll see that the drain is on the wrong side.....sigh.

He told me plumber replaced the valve and the WH at the same time....wtf?

Dirty Water
11-22-2006, 08:55 PM
I like your fix.

If I had more time, I'd probably have cut the valve out rotated it 90 degree's and sweated in two couplers.

However, doing blowouts, doing what you did is exactly what I would have probably done :)

Allure
11-22-2006, 09:01 PM
it is funny, but to me the fittings on the water heater look pretty new. I wonder if it's a dif. size than what might have been there when the valve was installed. Probably still a plumbers fault. maybe one of those home depot contractors:laugh:

sildoc
11-22-2006, 09:59 PM
I am unable to count on my hands how many of those valves I see like that every year during turn off time. That is cheaper for the homeowner than completely redoing it. I just can't believe the homeowner didn't think of that.

PurpHaze
11-22-2006, 10:14 PM
Plumbers love to bend the handles on brass ball valves. :)

DanaMac
11-23-2006, 12:14 AM
Was that the one I sent you yesterday!!!

SprinklerGuy
11-23-2006, 12:23 AM
No..this guy found me on Google....called me right before you......;)
Lives in Black For.......erm, Fountain, yeah Fountain that's it.

He did find me on Google......Powers corridor...

The guy you sent me was earlier today...I had 2 scheduled straggs...and 2 unscheduled straggs.....

I think I'm done?

koster_irrigation
11-23-2006, 01:13 PM
couldnt you have taken the handle off and flipped it around

sildoc
11-23-2006, 02:38 PM
couldnt you have taken the handle off and flipped it around
I never thought of that. Most of the time when I see these they are cramed in a valvebox somewhere and turning them around would produce the same results. Here turning it around would work since there is unlimited space above.
Good observation.

DanaMac
11-23-2006, 03:19 PM
couldnt you have taken the handle off and flipped it around
You can, but then the stop points on the handle don't line up right on the brass body.

Dirty Water
11-23-2006, 03:22 PM
This is why I prefer to use valves like this:

http://www.fordmeterbox.com/media/BMV1.jpg

There's nothing worse than a long handled ball valve being unable to turn because of the valvebox its in, or the handle rusting off.

Wet_Boots
11-23-2006, 03:32 PM
There are also a few ball valves where they economized by not designing them with a packing nut, instead using a small ring of brass, and counting on the handle and its retaining nut to do the job. Removing these particular handles, while there is pressure in the lines, might have soggy consequences.

Hank Reardon
11-23-2006, 04:53 PM
This is why I prefer to use valves like this:

http://www.fordmeterbox.com/media/BMV1.jpg

There's nothing worse than a long handled ball valve being unable to turn because of the valvebox its in, or the handle rusting off.

Those look like a good idea for the isolation valves upstream of the DCVA. No handle to break off and quick operation without having your hand in harms way (I had three spider bites this year in valve boxes).

Besides, it's brass...:)

Wet_Boots
11-23-2006, 05:02 PM
Awful pricey, though, to a trade using lots of cheesy import valves. I used to special-order Apollo ball valves with stainless handles and nuts, and some of them were the first to develop leaks over the winter. I sometimes used the leftover ball valves pulled from backflow preventers, and most of those have been good, despite being imports.

Hank Reardon
11-23-2006, 06:20 PM
Awful pricey, though, to a trade using lots of cheesy import valves. I used to special-order Apollo ball valves with stainless handles and nuts, and some of them were the first to develop leaks over the winter. I sometimes used the leftover ball valves pulled from backflow preventers, and most of those have been good, despite being imports.

Fortunately, price is not an issue on our installs. We have been lucky to live where quality is an easy sell and we don't do competive bids.

I will definatley hit my supplier up for more information on those Ford BV's (we already use the pack joints).

Wet_Boots
11-23-2006, 07:30 PM
http://images.acehardwareoutlet.com/getimage/getimage.aspx?height=160&width=150&Path=Products\71597%20lr.jpgBefore the ballvalve, it used to be that the standard-bearer in sprinkler shutoff valves was the 'sprinkler angle valve' as made by Champion or Buckner or any number of companies. Being a valve with a replaceable washer, they could endure indefinitely. Once ball valves appeared, the old standard became a dinosaur. Now that old ball valves are leaking during winter, with costly breakage resulting, that old standard looks a lot better.

Throwing money at a ball valve doesn't guarantee anything. I've had defects from Apollo and Watts and Hammond valves, all made in the good old US of A, and no problems with valves pulled from new BP's (made in Taiwan and Italy). I think a side-entry design made by Crane might be the best I ever saw for reliability, but they're long discontinued. Sight-unseen, a waterworks company like Ford, or one of their competitors, is probably as good a source as any.

PurpHaze
11-24-2006, 12:44 AM
I never thought of that. Most of the time when I see these they are cramed in a valvebox somewhere and turning them around would produce the same results. Here turning it around would work since there is unlimited space above.

Good observation.

I've seen a lot of plumbers install these in valve boxes where they are on the "side" of the pipe so you pull up on the handle to shut the valve down. Problem is that the handles sometimes rot off from rust.

sildoc
11-24-2006, 01:13 AM
I've seen a lot of plumbers install these in valve boxes where they are on the "side" of the pipe so you pull up on the handle to shut the valve down. Problem is that the handles sometimes rot off from rust.
This is true. I cant count the times I go to shut them off and end up with a handle in my hand and looking for some vice grips untill I can comeback to replace.

PurpHaze
11-24-2006, 08:44 PM
That's the main reason we use PVC ball valves for manual systems instead of the brass ones. Since most of these are switch-overs from brass angle valves that have been butchered by the users I'm not inclined to put something else in that they can butcher up again. So far the general comment on the PVC ball valves has been good and it seems that they're OK swapping having to get on their knees to activate the valve for brass angle valves they don't understand and often broke.