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jfmx345
11-28-2006, 06:53 PM
I found a local dealer that has new-in-crates '05 Exmark Lasers with 60" ULTRACUT decks,

One has the Kohler 28efi,
The other is Briggs Vangaurd 31.

Same price for either... which one would you buy?

MJB
11-28-2006, 07:56 PM
Kohler 28 EFI Thats a no brainer with fuel prices going way up. You'll like it. I'm surprised they are giving you the same price on either engine, I thought the efi is higher priced. ?? Great mower too.

MOW PRO LAWN SERVICE
11-28-2006, 08:14 PM
Both are air cooled,the briggs for more power and better resale.

nobagger
11-28-2006, 08:40 PM
Both are air cooled,the briggs for more power and better resale.
I dont know if they have more power persay, I read somewhere the Kawi's had more torque in similar engines but the Briggs has 3 more ponies, that might not apply here. I would think the fuel injected would have more trade in value. But I honestly don't have any experience in either of these engines. We just ordered a Lazer HP 50" Triton w/27hp Kholer, the dealer siad it was kinda over kill but the more ponies the better I say.

koster_irrigation
11-28-2006, 08:53 PM
Kohler
.........

lazer 46
11-28-2006, 08:54 PM
The efi engine would normally be about $900 more than the Briggs. However I believe the Briggs engine was only available on the Lazer XS for 2005. This machine is heavier and has larger pumps and a bit pricier than the regular Lazer Z. So the price is about the same because of the difference in the model lazer.

BUCKEYE MOWING
11-28-2006, 08:55 PM
I found a local dealer that has new-in-crates '05 Exmark Lasers with 60" ULTRACUT decks,

One has the Kohler 28efi,
The other is Briggs Vangaurd 31.

Same price for either... which one would you buy?
What are they selling for ?

jfmx345
11-28-2006, 09:07 PM
The way it was explained to me is that in 2005, both of these mowers were actually XS models(bigger pumps etc...) But there was no actual XS model designator then. So both mowers are comparable to the '06 XS models.
Either mower is going for $8700

MOW PRO LAWN SERVICE
11-28-2006, 09:31 PM
Do efi engines run into problems.

Potchkins
11-28-2006, 09:31 PM
go briggs it's more power you can really feel it
less to go wrong repair wise

DEEJ
11-29-2006, 12:44 AM
The Briggs will suck fuel compared to the Kohler EFI. I have a 26EFI and a 28EFI. They are both smooth running engines that sip fuel (< 1gal per hour). The EFI makes them incredibly responsive. The engine reacts instantly to load, unlike a carbureted engine that will have a lag as the governor tries to open the throttle on the carb. Once you have an EFI engine on a mower, you won't go back to a carb. Given a choice, would you go back to a car with a carburetor? I certainly would not, and this is no different. My 26EFI has well over 2500 hours without so much as a hicup. The 28EFI is much lower hours at <1000, but also trouble free. No choke to fiddle with, just turn the key and go. The Bosch fuel injection system is very similar to that used on many cars.

So I agree with an earlier poster who said this is a no brainer - go with the EFI. You will never look back.

Those who say EFI are complicated and hard to work on, have obviously never owned one. Remember all those who said fuel injected cars were bad, complicated and hard to work on? Yup, that's right, they are all driving them now, and the cars couldn't be more reliable!

deej

John Gamba
11-29-2006, 05:56 AM
So I agree with an earlier poster who said this is a no brainer - go with the EFI. You will never look back.

Those who say EFI are complicated and hard to work on, have obviously never owned one. Remember all those who said fuel injected cars were bad, complicated and hard to work on? Yup, that's right, they are all driving them now, and the cars couldn't be more reliable!

deej

Bull. Ive owned both and the briggs is easier to FIND someone to work on it.

tacoma200
11-29-2006, 08:17 AM
I believe the Briggs would seem much more powerful because of the sheer displacement and torque. It would be handy on 10-14 day accounts or other heavy growth. The 28 efi would probably pay for its self in a few hundred hours with more than adequate power for most. Just my 2 cents. About 50% of my accounts can be very heavy and the 27 Kohler can handle them but there are times when I could use the extra hp/torque of the Briggs. Both the 28 efi and 31 are available on the 07 regular Lazer jfmx345. I sure can't see either going for less than about $9,000+ but I've been wrong before.

jtkplc
11-29-2006, 08:52 AM
That's a tough choice. I've used the Briggs and it's a beast. I would have to say go with the 28 EFI just simply because of the great fuel efficiency of them.

TLS
11-29-2006, 09:08 AM
Get ALL the facts....

Something is wrong with the info your getting.

The 28EFI is a standard Lazer.

IF the other DOES have a 31hp BVG, it IS an XS.

You get a heavier-duty frame, bigger pumps and wheel motors, faster speed, and with all that, higher price.

These two models were never close enough on price to be equal.


Report back and tell us what he is really offering.

John Gamba
11-29-2006, 09:19 AM
Get ALL the facts....

Something is wrong with the info your getting.

The 28EFI is a standard Lazer.

IF the other DOES have a 31hp BVG, it IS an XS.

You get a heavier-duty frame, bigger pumps and wheel motors, faster speed, and with all that, higher price.

These two models were never close enough on price to be equal.


Report back and tell us what he is really offering.


Thank you Tom:waving:

Heres a 2005 Lazer XS and you get a lot better seat to.

jfmx345
11-29-2006, 01:07 PM
According to the dealer, there was no acual "XS" in 2005. He said that both of these mowers would be equivalent to the current XS model.(larger pumps etc...)

I may have to take a run over and look at these units to see whats what...

John Gamba
11-29-2006, 01:11 PM
According to the dealer, there was no acual "XS" in 2005. He said that both of these mowers would be equivalent to the current XS model.(larger pumps etc...)

I may have to take a run over and look at these units to see whats what...


Can you take a picture please. Dealers:cry:

tacoma200
11-29-2006, 01:23 PM
Get ALL the facts....

Something is wrong with the info your getting.

The 28EFI is a standard Lazer.

IF the other DOES have a 31hp BVG, it IS an XS.

You get a heavier-duty frame, bigger pumps and wheel motors, faster speed, and with all that, higher price.

These two models were never close enough on price to be equal.


Report back and tell us what he is really offering.
For 07 the 31 will be on the standard Lazer and the 28 always has been. I guess your refering to the guy that thought the 28 was on an XS. It would be a hard decision for me to choose the 28 efi or the 31 on the standard Lazer. Extra power, torque, cubic inches or good power and fuel economy. I think the list price on a 31 regular Lazer starts at about $10,300. So you should be able to get it in the 9's.
Here are the engine combo's for the 07 regular Lazer (not XS)

LZ23KC605
23 KOH
60" Triton (152 cm)
LZ27KC605
27 KOH
60" Triton (152 cm)
LZ28KA605
28 KAW
60" Triton (152 cm)
LZ28KA665
28 KAW
66" Triton (168 cm)
LZ28KC605
28 KOH EFI
60" Triton (152 cm)
LZ28KC665
28 KOH EFI
66" Triton (168 cm)
LZ31BV605
31 BVG
60" Triton (152 cm)
LZ31BV665
31 BVG
66" Triton (168 cm)
LZ31BV725
31 BVG
72" Triton (183 cm)

The 31 Briggs will not be offered on the XS for 07. Not sure if we are on the same page or not TLS. First year the 31 has been offered on a regular Lazer so any previous 31 Briggs would have been and XS.

jfmx345
11-29-2006, 01:25 PM
OK, here is the real story...

The Briggs engine Z is the XS model...
The EFI is a regular Z.

So here is the deal
'05 Lazer Z
28efi/60
Ultracut

or

'05 Lazer Z XS
BVG 31/60
Ultra cut

Both same price.
Which do you buy?

Thanks for the help

tacoma200
11-29-2006, 01:30 PM
OK, here is the real story...

The Briggs engine Z is the XS model...
The EFI is a regular Z.

So here is the deal
'05 Lazer Z
28efi/60
Ultracut

or

'05 Lazer Z XS
BVG 31/60
Ultra cut

Both same price.
Which do you buy?

Thanks for the help
Do you want the smaller mower for your accounts or the larger framed XS. The smaller Lazer would be better for smaller accounts while the XS with it's larger frame would be better in open areas I would think. Less trim with the XS but faster speed.

John Gamba
11-29-2006, 01:43 PM
The 31 Briggs will not be offered on the XS for 07. Not sure if we are on the same page or not TLS. First year the 31 has been offered on a regular Lazer so any previous 31 Briggs would have been and XS.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. In the pic thats a 31Briggs Lazer XS 2005

tacoma200
11-29-2006, 01:44 PM
The 31 Briggs will not be offered on the XS for 07. Not sure if we are on the same page or not TLS. First year the 31 has been offered on a regular Lazer so any previous 31 Briggs would have been and XS.


Exactly. In the pic thats a 31Briggs Lazer XS 2005[/QUOTE]
Thats the way I understand it.

jfmx345
11-29-2006, 01:50 PM
What is the weight diff. between the two?

How 'bout fuel, is the EFI savings that much over the BVG?

TLS
11-29-2006, 04:48 PM
What is the weight diff. between the two?

How 'bout fuel, is the EFI savings that much over the BVG?

2005 Lazer Z XS 60" Ultra-Cut deck = 1450lbs

2005 Lazer Z EFI 60" Ultra-Cut deck = 1163lbs

Thats 287lbs difference.

You will have to demo or at least drive both around in a parking lot.

The 31 BVG will feel like a race car. Smooth quick and power out the wazoo.

Not that the 28EFI is a slouch, but the smoothness of the big pumps mated to big cubic inch torque on the XS would really seal the deal for me.

What are you being quoted price wise? Like I said, I don't think they were all that close in price MSRP wise to be offered at the same price.

Don't quote me on this, but it's also likely that the new "speed up kit" would retro fit this XS as well. Making it a 15mph machine. :cool2:

jfmx345
11-29-2006, 05:49 PM
Either machine is $8700 cash or 12mo same as cash.

I am leaning towards the BVG, but I wouldn't mind the fuel economy of the EFI.....

Thanks

John Gamba
11-29-2006, 06:03 PM
Either machine is $8700 cash or 12mo same as cash.

I am leaning towards the BVG, but I wouldn't mind the fuel economy of the EFI.....

Thanks

If you need to replace the throttle body,computer,temp sensors,fuel pumps or oxygen sensors you will cry for the briggs.


Can you demo any of theses mowers???


See back in the day all we had was the 25 Kohler:cry: or the 26Fi.

CBB
11-29-2006, 08:32 PM
Go with the XS. If either of the engines were to have issues, I would bet the EFI will sit in the shop longer. I have seen many mechanics talk like sailors when an EFI comes in giving bad codes. Plus the XS has all the upgrades...suspension seat, bigger pumps, etc..

Travis Followell
11-29-2006, 08:34 PM
I personally would go with the Briggs on the XS. For the same money your getting a lot more machine and i've heard the the Briggs vanguards aren't that bad on fuel considering the power output. I'd definately go that route and also like has already been said their easier and less expensive to work on than an efi.

Adam's Lawn and Garden
11-29-2006, 08:46 PM
My '03 has a 60" ultra cut on it. It has a 27 hp kohler in it and it's a powerhorse, or at least to me. The cut is nice and it never seems to lose power. It would depend what yards you're using it on, but the gases prices have gone down but who know's how long that would last. Personally, i would do my best to try to get both considering they're ultra cut's because with this triton who know's when there's going to be a decent deck again.

adam

J&R Landscaping
11-30-2006, 12:01 AM
I would go with the Lazer Z XS. You'll get a better re-sale on it plus more power. Also, you can get alot of electrical trouble with the efi system. Having worked on a few of them, diagnosis is not the easiest thing on them.

TLS
11-30-2006, 08:59 AM
Either machine is $8700 cash or 12mo same as cash.

I am leaning towards the BVG, but I wouldn't mind the fuel economy of the EFI.....

Thanks

Where in PA? What dealer?

That is an eXcellent price for the XS!!!

Both ARE new with 0 hrs right?

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 09:03 AM
Where in PA? What dealer?

That is an eXcellent price for the XS!!!

Both ARE new with 0 hrs right?


Tom Its a nice mower

TLS
11-30-2006, 09:12 AM
Tom Its a nice mower

I know Johnny!!! I know. :)


jfmx345 will get a great mower at an excellent price!

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 09:35 AM
I know Johnny!!! I know. :)


jfmx345 will get a great mower at an excellent price!


This is a friend that i let demo the 31 on one of his props, he said his 2001 26FI would bogg a little going up a hill on the prop, when he can back i asked him what happened going up the hill he replied --- when i pushed the levers forward where his mower would bogg, this one the front wheels came off the ground.

Look at his smile on the demo. Oh hes 350lbs to.

Distorted
11-30-2006, 11:59 AM
The Briggs 31 engine on my 66" XS has been great - the Triton not so great.

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 12:14 PM
The Briggs 31 engine on my 66" XS has been great - the Triton not so great.



Did you get it updated??

jfmx345
11-30-2006, 04:57 PM
Thanks for your help guys, I decided to get the XS...

If all goes well maybe I'll get the EFI too!:weightlifter:

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 05:10 PM
Thanks for your help guys, I decided to get the XS...

If all goes well maybe I'll get the EFI too!:weightlifter:



We will need pics

Distorted
12-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Did you get it updated??

No, been away from the forum for awhile. Got a cite on the thread re the update?

John Gamba
12-01-2006, 07:43 PM
No, been away from the forum for awhile. Got a cite on the thread re the update?


Ask brian at the exmark forum. Its free. let us know how it works.

lazer 46
12-01-2006, 07:47 PM
My dealer ordered the update kit for my Triton over a month ago and it hasn't gotten here yet. The mower is tucked away for the winter so even if it gets here it will have to wait till spring. I'm not impressed with the way Exmark has handled this update kit at all.

Distorted
12-01-2006, 08:08 PM
O.K., I found the thread.
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=164537

I think I'll see if my dealer knows about the kit and get one put on. Even though I am in the south, my experience with the Triton was a lot of stragglers even with the low lift blades which helped some. I also saw a reference to another high ground speed kit earlier in this thread, which I may explore too.

Thanks for the tips, John.

Idealtim
12-01-2006, 09:22 PM
So it looks to me like it is a much bigger difference than just 3 hp. If that was just the case then the efi would be the winner. But when you are turning down 3hp, larger pumps, larger frame, bigger tires, and a better seat..




the answer becomes more clear. The fi alone just doesn't close that gap.

TLS
12-02-2006, 05:33 AM
If they would only just fuel inject the BVG's.

Now that I taste the ease of EFI, it would be hard to go back to a carb.

John Gamba
12-02-2006, 06:09 AM
So it looks to me like it is a much bigger difference than just 3 hp. If that was just the case then the efi would be the winner. But when you are turning down 3hp, larger pumps, larger frame, bigger tires, and a better seat..




the answer becomes more clear. The fi alone just doesn't close that gap.


Back in the day, you got the suspension seat on the 26EPS Lazer. It was a great improvement over the carbed 25 Kohler.

TLS
12-02-2006, 12:26 PM
Johnny,
Dont forget you EPS guys got the deck foot lift as well!

John Gamba
12-02-2006, 06:01 PM
Johnny,
Dont forget you EPS guys got the deck foot lift as well!


You are correct here are two of them

TLS
12-03-2006, 08:46 AM
Thanks for your help guys, I decided to get the XS...



Cut with it yet?

TLS
12-05-2006, 09:22 AM
Cut with it yet?

Any updates jfmx345? :confused:

jfmx345
12-05-2006, 09:40 AM
sorry, did not see the question...

I did not cut yet,(no grass to cut anyway) I am not actually picking up the XS till Jan.

Can't wait to try it out though!

MuleCutter
12-06-2006, 11:21 AM
i'd go with the 31 briggs. more power and less problems being that there isnt a computer to run the EFI. i've seen those go out before.