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View Full Version : Hey lawn guys! Your all stupid?


TURFLORD
11-30-2006, 10:33 AM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?

BSDeality
11-30-2006, 10:38 AM
I have two college degrees, does that count?

Raven386
11-30-2006, 10:42 AM
mowrons - thats a good one.

let people think or assume what they want. it doesn't really matter. people call me stupid everyday because i didn't go to college and I'm gonna be stuck cutting grass for the rest of my life. LawnSite is my college. I've learned more here than i could've learned in any other college course or anything else. and it's all thanks to the other "mowrons" that don't know anything about anything. we should make a book! "The LawnSite.com Guide To : "

BQLC
11-30-2006, 10:42 AM
thats funny i don't feel stupid let me check with my wife.

All jokes aside there is a vast amount of education aquired in experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. I learn somthing new almost everyday

carcrz
11-30-2006, 10:46 AM
I have two college degrees, does that count?

Only one for me. I'm done for now.

BSDeality
11-30-2006, 10:49 AM
thats funny i don't feel stupid let me check with my wife.

All jokes aside there is a vast amount of education aquired in experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. I learn somthing new almost everydaythere is also a vast amount that can be learned in the classroom and you also find out why something works in the way it does. When I was in school I learned more than one thing every class. I sell my turf education on nearly every job now.

Groomer
11-30-2006, 10:50 AM
I feel so syupid, idont no y,
sumtimes it make me wont to cri.
if I cud lern to plant a shrub,
I woodent feel lik such a grub.
I no that Im a lower rank,
but i smile on way to bank.

Raven386
11-30-2006, 10:51 AM
I feel so syupid, idont no y,
sumtimes it make me wont to cri.
if I cud lern to plant a shrub,
I woodent feel lik such a grub.
I no that Im a lower rank,
but i smile on way to bank.

:laugh:
did you just make that one up?

BSDeality
11-30-2006, 11:00 AM
oh ya....

Re: topic. It should say "you're" not "your". Not sure about that question mark either. :drinkup:

Allure
11-30-2006, 11:08 AM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?
Turflord, i agree, that post smacked of arrogance. For what it is worth, i am a landscaper without a degree. I guess by his standards i should quit & start cutting lawns.
One can learn a tremendous amount about horticulture (or anything else) without getting a degree if they are passionate about it.
I will take hands on experience over book smarts any day. The ideal education is some of both, but book smart alone won't guarantee success. I dropped out of college to work full time for $5.25/hr (20 yrs ago). Through hard work & determination i turned that job into a highly successful career.
Now, since textiles is a dying industry, i have decided to pursue my true passion. Plants.
Only in America:usflag:
Just my .02c

mojob
11-30-2006, 11:22 AM
Misspelling a word in the title of your post isn't going to help your cause. You used "your" instead of "you're". LOL I'm just kidding so don't get mad. Don't worry it's a common mistake. I saw the same post that you're talking about. I think it was his way of bragging about his education more than a put-down on the rest of us.IMO I have a degree and never used it in my chosen field. That makes me feel really stupid. On the other hand, the things I learned to get my degree, helps me in this business every day. I do feel pretty humble when I read some of the posts on this site. There's a lot of really smart business men here. Some of these same people might not even have an eight grade education. Intelligence and education don't always go hand in hand. A degree only helps you if you want to work for someone else and who wants to do that?

Az Gardener
11-30-2006, 11:22 AM
I think a lot of people are insecure or have a chip on their shoulder. But in the interest of a lively thread I wiull throw this out. All you have to do is look at the titles for some of the current threads. For those who cut medium strips? I think they were medians. What about "How much do dealers make off a sell" I think they mean sale. I'm the last guy to bring up grammar and spelling issues but if you don't even know the proper words to describe something you may have some believe that education is not all that important to you.

WJW Lawn
11-30-2006, 11:24 AM
Its like I said, Im trading in my truck for a short bus. Only that dude should drive a truck because of his edumacation, and in-depth studying of how a dog turd affects the long term growth of a mezereon. WHATEVVVV!

Josh.S
11-30-2006, 11:26 AM
oh ya....

Re: topic. It should say "you're" not "your". Not sure about that question mark either. :drinkup:

Nice, I was thinking the same thing when I read it...

topsites
11-30-2006, 11:41 AM
Truth be known, I *want* people to think I'm stupid.

As hard as I find it to tolerate somedays, it makes it that much easier to see a scammer coming.
It's a whole lot easier to see when they think I'm stupid, they don't try as hard and don't get too smart in return.

Since I'm no better than anyone else, the dumber they think I am, the better.
It really hurts somedays thou :laugh:

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 11:47 AM
I have two college degrees, does that count?


I can afford two collage degrees plus my daughters -- Does that count??

BSDeality
11-30-2006, 11:52 AM
I can afford two collage degrees plus my daughters -- Does that count??John,
collage? come'on now :weightlifter: :laugh:

Groomer
11-30-2006, 11:53 AM
yup, it's raining here in OH, no leaf action today.

Tim Wright
11-30-2006, 11:55 AM
Business is business. Everbody pick one and make money.

Tim

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 11:55 AM
John,
collage? come'on now :weightlifter: :laugh:


I didn't say i attended:laugh:

meets1
11-30-2006, 12:01 PM
Yes college degree - business adminstration & financing, a few more classes and I would have my coaching as well. I use it - but also learn something everyday. Although I try to educate the client - but I feel as though when speaking to the higher ups (lawyer, doctor, prof. etc) they are always right. Ex - I just deleivered a pickup load of wood to a husband & wife who are both eye doctors - he calls and says wome of the wood looks like wood other split pieces look like old barn yard wood. Now come on! So I took him another 1/2 load to exchange for the wood that was not acceptable for his fireplace. Thing is the wood I re-load looked just like the wood I brought back! But being higher educated ect they think they know it all when in the end of the day I wish I could tell "ya know...kiss my a@#!

meets1
11-30-2006, 12:03 PM
One more thing to the wood story - all is split, 90% is ash, aliitle elm & maple in the mix and most of our wood is 2-3 years old that we sell. If you can find one piece that looks slightly rotten - you'll be looking a long time.

one man gang
11-30-2006, 12:25 PM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?


Where is the thread in question?

jameson
11-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Mowrons - apt and descriptive - subtle in nuance - I am neither altogether flattered or chagrined. I hope this word finds a home in the rich lexicon of lawn-boy speak.

BTW - imagine all those medium strips left untended by your fellow mowrons - they may well turn gargantuan in nature - now that would be unacceptable.

;)

DynaMow
11-30-2006, 12:38 PM
thats funny i don't feel stupid let me check with my wife.
Great, I just asked mine and she said "yes, you are stupid" now what should I do?

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 01:00 PM
Great, I just asked mine and she said "yes, you are stupid" now what should I do?


Hay Craig:waving: How was your thanksgiving

Turf Terror
11-30-2006, 01:04 PM
I don't need a college degree...
...I already know everything about everything.
Hahahahahahaaaa

horticulturedawg
11-30-2006, 01:10 PM
I have found the opposite to be true. We have made a pretty good business of correcting "landscapers" mistakes. Landscape architects seem to know very little about plants and turf.

Dano50
11-30-2006, 01:16 PM
I think you guys are smart. You recognize the value and quality of Fluid Film (http://www.eurekafluidfilm.com). That's why we spend so much time and money on here. :usflag:

My wife things I'm stupid too. Don't take it personal. :laugh:

MTR
11-30-2006, 01:40 PM
As long as I can afford nice house in good school neighbor, 2 trucks, two 52" mowers and a runabout, all paid for except mortgage...and have time to enjoy beaches and lakes every week...I don't mind being branded as STUPID or MORON.
Bottomline, money in accounts is good enough.:walking:

OMG
11-30-2006, 01:47 PM
I have 2 college degrees. I spent 16 years in the corporate world and hated every minute of it.


I really don't care what anyone thinks of me as long as I enjoy doing what I do and make a little money doing it.

Tvov
11-30-2006, 01:51 PM
Hey, can I be a "mowron" too? lol

"horticulturedawg
I have found the opposite to be true. We have made a pretty good business of correcting "landscapers" mistakes. Landscape architects seem to know very little about plants and turf."

Roger that. I don't have the numbers, but a large percentage of my business is generated by edumacated landscape "architects".

Also, the "business" courses that I took in college have had absolutely no relationship to the Real World. Actually, I shouldn't say that. I guess I just haven't been in business long enough yet. Anyone seen "Back to School" with Rodney Dangerfield? I laughed my leaf covered butt off at the scenes in the business class.

BQLC
11-30-2006, 01:53 PM
there is also a vast amount that can be learned in the classroom and you also find out why something works in the way it does. When I was in school I learned more than one thing every class. I sell my turf education on nearly every job now.

I am not knocking anyone with a education nor anyone withouth a degree

nobagger
11-30-2006, 03:34 PM
Well my wife thinks I'm a little off but we're laugh'in all the way to the bank.

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 04:03 PM
Well my wife thinks I'm a little off but we're laugh'in all the way to the bank.


Thats the spirit:)

apowell18
11-30-2006, 04:09 PM
I have a BS in Psychology...talk about worthless...but working on a Masters now...

At first most people do think you are an uneducated moron thinking it doesn't take any brains to mow...they don't think about the business side of everything...we are running small business' and that takes some brains...I just like telling some of the guys at my full time job how much I make on the weekends...(at first they laughed at what I wanted to do, but now they are thinking of getting into it)...who's stupid now b****?!

I feel that the whole moron/uneducated stereotype comes from many of the ill-legit guys out there willing to do anything for a buck...educate ourselves and be professional within our industry...fix landscaping problems without trashtalking to the customer about the initial install...

As lawn care providers we need to raise the bar a little for ourselves and hope the rest of us follow suit...but just as stated before by someone...can't be that stupid making this kind of money...

rodfather
11-30-2006, 04:40 PM
BS in Economics
BS in Marketing
MBA in Industrial Relations

Whoopee...:laugh:

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 05:10 PM
BS in Economics
BS in Marketing
MBA in Industrial Relations

Whoopee...:laugh:


I got a BS in Hot Tubs

rodfather
11-30-2006, 05:14 PM
I got a BS in Hot Tubs

don't ya mean the "S" should be substituted with another letter "J"ohn? :laugh:

HOOLIE
11-30-2006, 05:15 PM
I spent half an hour blowing leaves INTO the wind today...man I must be ******ed :laugh:

John Gamba
11-30-2006, 05:16 PM
don't ya mean the "S" should be substituted with another letter "J"ohn? :laugh:




:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: oh thats it:laugh: :laugh: i should of stayed in school:laugh: :laugh:

rodfather
11-30-2006, 05:18 PM
I spent half an hour blowing leaves INTO the wind today...man I must be ******ed :laugh:

Hoolie...we already knew that about topsites :laugh:

citysexton
11-30-2006, 05:40 PM
Great, I just asked mine and she said "yes, you are stupid" now what should I do?

Craig cant be that stupid his wife is really hot

citysexton
11-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Who posted the thread about lawm boys being stupid that started this whole cluster-F?

Allure
11-30-2006, 05:50 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=167777

meathead1134
11-30-2006, 06:25 PM
I'm at the point of my life (27 years old) I could careless what people think of me. I'm not going to kiss your ass for you to like me. I've been in the corporate world for 7 years now and some of the purks are nice. But I can cut 2 yards in an hour and make more doing that than working a regular hour in the corporate world. I'm working on my second degree right now and my business continue to grow year after year. Call me stupid well thats nice have a nice day I could give too $hits what you think of me.

TURFLORD
11-30-2006, 07:34 PM
oh ya....

Re: topic. It should say "you're" not "your". Not sure about that question mark either. :drinkup:
You're right. The question mark was meant to imply doubt. I didn't know how else to express it.

TURFLORD
11-30-2006, 07:49 PM
My faith in LawnSite has been restored. A quality bunch of replies. And I'm glad I'm not the only one blowing leaves into the wind.:)

Uranus
11-30-2006, 07:51 PM
Hey lawn guys your stupid.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I'll have to remember that when I go to the bank in the morning and deposit a stack of check. Then I'll be laughing at anyone who thinks I'm stupid cuz I know that I have more cash saved up in one year of business then 40% of the people out there in the SMART world make in a year.
I ran into my old forman a few days ago and he asked me If I was comming back to work for him next year. He had a puzzled look in his eyes when I asked him If he wanted me to write a check out for what he made this year right now if he would come work for me next year.

LindblomRJ
11-30-2006, 07:52 PM
Hoolie...we already knew that about topsites :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Daner
11-30-2006, 07:59 PM
I still have nightmares of school
I can tell you one thing...Most Lco,s love there job.

K c m
11-30-2006, 08:00 PM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?


you have it a little wrong. *US* Lawn cutters are educated. I graduated with a business degree and im sure you guys also graduated from college. What the people mean is EMPLOYEES. I see bum's mowing lawns. And i mean bums. Shirts untucked earings and so fourth. Don't take it personal and remember. It is a mans opinion of himself that matters no one elses. If you are supporting your wife and children you are doing what you're supposed to do.

dave k
11-30-2006, 08:08 PM
Hey TurfLord
Did John Kerry put you up to this?? LOL
What part of Jersey you from? I grew up in Piscataway.
Dave aka Mowron LOL

K c m
11-30-2006, 08:18 PM
i retract my statement turflord. good call dave.

vincent c. gomeyac
11-30-2006, 09:36 PM
NO, I'm not STUPID!

Being college EDUCATED doesn't mean to say YOU'RE LEARNED(pronounced;

LEAR-NED)

WildWest
11-30-2006, 11:08 PM
don't ya mean the "S" should be substituted with another letter "J"ohn? :laugh:
LOL, Yer BAD!

It's a free country, people can think whatever they want. To ASSUME someone is not as capable because they weren't "schooled" is a laugh!:rolleyes:

rossc_83
11-30-2006, 11:19 PM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?

I've been reading some books lately about stuff like chinch bugs....manganese, most people don't know what that is

MattsMowing3535
11-30-2006, 11:24 PM
If there all so stupid why I am I on here trying to learn all I can from them? Because they are not! I did not know half the stuff I do now! I can go talk to my friends and school and they loose me after mower and grass! I say thank you to all the smart LCO's out there teaching me the ways of the trade! :waving:

rossc_83
11-30-2006, 11:26 PM
don't feel bad everyone, i have a turf degree from purdue and often people stereotype me too as being "uneducated." I just finished reading the best book i have or will ever read called "total money makeover" by Dave Ramsey. he says quote "I have been a millionaire 2 times before I was forty, and I attribute 15 percent of that to college knowledge and 0 percent to the degree...while 85 percent was attributed to attitude, perserverance, diligence and vision" If you know what you can do, who cares what others say

Allure
11-30-2006, 11:40 PM
don't feel bad everyone, i have a turf degree from purdue and often people stereotype me too as being "uneducated." I just finished reading the best book i have or will ever read called "total money makeover" by Dave Ramsey. he says quote "I have been a millionaire 2 times before I was forty, and I attribute 15 percent of that to college knowledge and 0 percent to the degree...while 85 percent was attributed to attitude, perserverance, diligence and vision" If you know what you can do, who cares what others say
thanks for the book tip. i've listened to his radio show many times. very informative

rossc_83
11-30-2006, 11:44 PM
I saw that the mdvaden guy that started this whole thing was born in America Jr. Who cares about his opinion :usflag: just kidding Canada, you know we love you

J&R Landscaping
11-30-2006, 11:55 PM
i R a hi skool grad-ju-it!!
I enjoy my work and thats what matters. Some people think I'm smart, some people think I'm stupid but chances are I feel the same way about the same people.

RICHIE K
12-01-2006, 07:12 AM
Cant be that dumb laughing all the way to the bank

WJW Lawn
12-01-2006, 08:05 AM
NO, I'm not STUPID!

Being college EDUCATED doesn't mean to say YOU'RE LEARNED(pronounced;

LEAR-NED)


Exactly! I have many friends that studied Bud Light in college, and they are actually dumber now than when they went in lol. :confused:

WJW Lawn
12-01-2006, 08:07 AM
i R a hi skool grad-ju-it!!
I enjoy my work and thats what matters. Some people think I'm smart, some people think I'm stupid but chances are I feel the same way about the same people.

If some people think you're smart, while some think you're dumb...then that would make you about average. But being a stupid dumb dumb lawn guy, my maff (spelling) may be a little off.

befnme
12-01-2006, 08:33 AM
i have a paralegal degree and my wife has a criminal justice degree. we we are as stupid as they come because we left those careers to work on our own. so far i,ve only paid off 2 boats, 2 houses, 3 trucks, 1 car, and all of my equipment. oh well silly me..........:rolleyes:

steve45
12-01-2006, 07:29 PM
I've got a degree in Engineering. I'm not in the lawncare business (but I did have a part-time business years ago).

I came here to LEARN from EXPERTS about a subject that I was not formally educated in. That's what smart people do--they consult experts--like you guys!

topsites
12-01-2006, 08:13 PM
Well, ok...
While you guys figure out how to prevent yourself from blowing leaves INTO the wind, when the leaves have to go to the woods that are to the WEST and the wind is blowing FROM the west...

IF that were my only problem, life would be easy. I'm faced with far more fun challenges, so the wind issue really bothers me and my 10hp pushblower a bit, as it makes very little difference.

But for those who have Web sites, this does:
I coded my web sites myself, with a text code editor, in Xhtml 1.0, using character set UTF-8...
Thou ISO-8859 would've worked as well, since the IANA-approved character set is the default encoding for legacy HTML documents and for documents transmitted via MIME messages...

The reason I used UTF-8 is because UTF-8 (Unicode Transformation Format-8) is an octet (8-bit) lossless encoding of code characters which encodes each character as a variable number of 1 to 4 octets, where the number of octets depends on the integer value assigned to the Unicode character. It is an efficient encoding of Unicode documents that use mostly US-ASCII characters because it represents each character in the range U+0000 through U+007F as a single octet, crosses the platform between Unix and Windows with less issues than ISO-8859-1 AND is the default encoding for XML.

My sites are unfortunately coded in Xhtml, which roughly speaking, is the result of the marriage between XML and Html, and since you can't use two character sets, you use one or the other.

You can read up on how that works here:
XHTML™ 1.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/)
And here:
UTF-8 and Unicode Standards (http://www.utf-8.com/)

Using the smaller site, you can see how the process went:
Test Results (http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/validate.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstonypointlawncare.com%2F&warnings=yes&spider=yes)

While the larger site has some errors, and the debugger only works up to the first 100 pages, if any of the really smart guys would like to help in the debugging process, I would welcome the assistance and yes I am already working on it :laugh:
Test Results (http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/validate.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fatopqualitysite.com%2F&warnings=yes&spider=yes)

Once those who think of Lco's as stupid are ready to proceed, please advise :laugh:
Thou I will not disagree with the wives, in advance.

topsites
12-01-2006, 08:27 PM
However, there was one error which reeks of my stupidity, on line 125 of a link code, which then appears on not one, but TWO pages, specifically...

I coded it </br >
instead of <br />

How dumb of me...

{by the time you read this, this error has been fixed :laugh:}

Idealtim
12-01-2006, 10:39 PM
I am still in high school so I am planning to be stupid by staying in this line of work?

DaughtryLC
12-01-2006, 11:19 PM
I would like to see those people that think were stupid just try to take the pesticide state exam and see how far they get!!!:confused:

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 01:16 AM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?

It's usually best to include the link or title of the thread so people know which one to read to distinguish between fact and fiction.

Hopefully, you are referring to the one that I initiated.

If that's the case, then you missed the mark, as it's not a put-down. It's an analytical thread about the statistics of users in Lawn Site, including Arborist Site.

If that's the thread - did you actually read through it? If you did, you probably failed to understand the nature of the content.

Is this the thread that you read or misunderstood:http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=167777

Or was it another?

:)

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 01:27 AM
I saw that the mdvaden guy that started this whole thing was born in America Jr. Who cares about his opinion :usflag: just kidding Canada, you know we love you

Did you find a type error somewhere?

I was born in Vancouver, B.C., not far from "Kitz" Beach.

Or were you referring to America as a continent - north and south?

But my Lawn Site profile, and website, both state Canada.

Allure
12-02-2006, 01:30 AM
i think he meant
America Jr. (canada)

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 01:31 AM
i think he meant
America Jr. (canada)

Ahhhh... yes.

Never heard that one before.

Allure
12-02-2006, 01:33 AM
me neither. i had to read it more than once.

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 01:37 AM
me neither. i had to read it more than once.

Maybe that's what Conan needs to do with the other thread is read it once more all the way through.

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 04:30 AM
This is a copy of a reply of the thread mentioned in the opening post, for a comparison between what TurfLord wrote, and what the other thread actually says...
TURFLORD - "It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?"

This is a bit of rhetoric from someone who started a thread...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=168162

It will be handy to keep in this thread, because it seems to pertain to it. Compare the extreme statements of that quote, to the opening post of this thread.

Possibly in haste, they missed the mention of "Oregon".

It may have been wiser to ask what it is about Oregon that sets many mowing services apart from landscapers.

Part of it, is the test. In Oregon, may lawn service owners would like to be licensed landscape contractors too, so they can plant lawns and other things, but only 1 in 10 people in Oregon pass the license exams first time through - that's everybody together. That's one piece of the puzzle.

Note TurfLord's use of "all" & "all" when in reality, this thread starts with words "more".

The distortion of text is evident, but apparently was altered provide a false premise.

A review of the other thread content, and various replies, will keep it in context.

Almost at the beginning of the other thread, TurfLord posted this...

TURFLORD - "Mr. Vadens post sounds more like a carefully worded rip on lco's. The only point I can deduce from his associating this post with education, is egotism. What, exactly, was meant by "need help"?"

Not only did TurfLord not get one point, but he got no points from it. Possibly from deducing. Deducing is almost related to assuming.

TURFLORD
12-02-2006, 07:19 AM
A couple of replies ago, someone mentioned they had a degree in psychology. Maybe you should have a discussion with this person. This post was even more misconstrued than the first. "Your" obviously a person who need to choose adjectives more carefully. And, think more before you speak..... or type. The word analytical should be used to describe how you reviewed the data, not the type of data. Empirical would be a better word to describe the data. Go buy a dictionary. The point I deduced was entirely accurate, you just can't see it, Ego-boy. Maybe you noticed the overt attempt at humility I employed in this response. Take a hint and try using some yourself.

LwnmwrMan22
12-02-2006, 09:51 AM
I don't know....

I'm always 3 days late to some of these threads, but I figured I'd jump in now, even though it's pretty much run its course.

Compared to me, sure, some landscapers have more knowledge in plants, zones, irrigation, install, etc.

It's stuff that about 10 years ago, I decided I didn't want to persue anymore.

As far as what piece of mowing equipment to use on which property and section of property, that's pretty much all I want to know.

Also, how to properly calibrate a fertilizer spreader and my PG Ultra.

I see alot of landscapers, before they lay sod, they're throwing fertlizer by hand, or if they're using a spreader, the ground looks like it's snowed out.

Now obviously I see the same guys all the time, since there's about 4-5 main companies in my area of both mowing and installers, soooo, I'm making a generalization.

IMO, the dumbest people, and I mean this because the people CANNOT have any real work experience, just draw and here you go, are architects.

They're ALWAYS putting a tree or light, RIGHT in front of the area that would be an ABSOLUTE perfect spot to pile snow.

Wal-Mart designers are by far the worst, but I also suppose it has alot to do with hoops that cities make them jump through to get permits to build / expand their stores.

newbomb
12-02-2006, 10:21 AM
I have a 2 year degree in electronics (worthless). If mowing lawns is "idiot" work why are so many people unable to do it correctly. I realize many people have other careers and hire us but when I see regular folks butchering their lawn I have to wonder.

freddyc
12-02-2006, 10:42 AM
I stopped going to college when I realized it doesn't apply to life.


I believe intermittent courses focused on specific areas are a great thing.

All my life (I will be 48 in 3 weeks) I've listened to all the Masters level people ask me what to do on projects. When you come up with solutions, they routinely work their ass off at trying to find a way to put their name on it--write a paper/patent it. This is mostly junk science to me.

Unfortunately, I just haven't met a high number of credentialized people that deserve any real respect...doesn't mean they aren;t there, just means my experience has been like that. The trend I've seen is that people with bachelors level degrees are a lot more useful in every way than Masters/PhD's.

Every day I listen to PhD's boasting about themselves--till you give them a challenge and they start asking you for the answer.

College doesn't teach common sense, doesn't provide physical skills, and seems to hinder rather than expand creativity and innovation. What it does is show someone how to cheat on papers, gravitate toward politics and walk around with such a large ego that they can't see their parasitic nature. Good people gone bad from my personal experience of working in industry for the last 30 years. The paper means more than the work to most....but thats what society has beaten into people. Give me a creative craftsman anyday.

LwnmwrMan22
12-02-2006, 11:05 AM
I stopped going to college when I realized it doesn't apply to life.


I believe intermittent courses focused on specific areas are a great thing.

All my life (I will be 48 in 3 weeks) I've listened to all the Masters level people ask me what to do on projects. When you come up with solutions, they routinely work their ass off at trying to find a way to put their name on it--write a paper/patent it. This is mostly junk science to me.

Unfortunately, I just haven't met a high number of credentialized people that deserve any real respect...doesn't mean they aren;t there, just means my experience has been like that. The trend I've seen is that people with bachelors level degrees are a lot more useful in every way than Masters/PhD's.

Every day I listen to PhD's boasting about themselves--till you give them a challenge and they start asking you for the answer.

College doesn't teach common sense, doesn't provide physical skills, and seems to hinder rather than expand creativity and innovation. What it does is show someone how to cheat on papers, gravitate toward politics and walk around with such a large ego that they can't see their parasitic nature. Good people gone bad from my personal experience of working in industry for the last 30 years. The paper means more than the work to most....but thats what society has beaten into people. Give me a creative craftsman anyday.

Pretty much wraps it up in a nutshell, IMO.

JJLandscapes
12-02-2006, 11:31 AM
I can admit im stupid but im running a co0uple businesses and makin money so who cares. I have no book smarts at all only street smarts

Prestige-Lawncare
12-02-2006, 11:58 AM
I stopped going to college when I realized it doesn't apply to life.


I believe intermittent courses focused on specific areas are a great thing.

All my life (I will be 48 in 3 weeks) I've listened to all the Masters level people ask me what to do on projects. When you come up with solutions, they routinely work their ass off at trying to find a way to put their name on it--write a paper/patent it. This is mostly junk science to me.

Unfortunately, I just haven't met a high number of credentialized people that deserve any real respect...doesn't mean they aren;t there, just means my experience has been like that. The trend I've seen is that people with bachelors level degrees are a lot more useful in every way than Masters/PhD's.

Every day I listen to PhD's boasting about themselves--till you give them a challenge and they start asking you for the answer.

College doesn't teach common sense, doesn't provide physical skills, and seems to hinder rather than expand creativity and innovation. What it does is show someone how to cheat on papers, gravitate toward politics and walk around with such a large ego that they can't see their parasitic nature. Good people gone bad from my personal experience of working in industry for the last 30 years. The paper means more than the work to most....but thats what society has beaten into people. Give me a creative craftsman anyday.

There you go! I have met many ... many people with a degree yet no common sense at all.

:dizzy:

Az Gardener
12-02-2006, 12:09 PM
So why do we consistently see people suggesting to young entrepreneurs that have 3-4 years into a business dump it and go to college. That always drives me nuts. There are many ways to educate yourself without going the traditional route.

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 12:52 PM
I have two college degrees, does that count?

Sure does. Good to see you post.

And pertinent education too. Your company profile seems to fit the landscape & lawn service combos that I mentioned when I began the other thread.

In Oregon, many people who have the knowledge to be landscape contractors, will offer just lawn service. It's because they want to do some, or a lot of installation - a variety at least.

Part of it is customer service. In Oregon, a landscape contractor license is needed to modify irrigation systems, which goes hand in hand with lawn service. At minimum, that's one motive for the landscape contractor license here.

Not sure how many people noticed, but TurfLord was about the only person recently who inferred "all" lawn people to be stupid.

There's an illustration I just added in the other thread, about a Silversmith he reminded me of that tried to get people bent out of shape.

LwnmwrMan22
12-02-2006, 02:11 PM
So why do we consistently see people suggesting to young entrepreneurs that have 3-4 years into a business dump it and go to college. That always drives me nuts. There are many ways to educate yourself without going the traditional route.

I tell everyone I know that college is a waste of money, unless you have a specific reason to go.

My wife's a nurse, she went to a 4 year school to get her R.N. degree, along with 4 cousins of mine.

I've got another cousin who's mission in life is cancer research. So far he's been going to school for 16 years after high school.

He's got his masters, a ph.d. and a couple of other degrees. One thing, is that he's far enough into it that he's getting his schooling paid for, by working there, kinda a high buck work study program.

Anyways, I've got other cousins / relatives that have business management degrees, including one that specialized in international business, with a masters. He decided he didn't like the everyday 9-5, so he's a cowboy on a dude ranch in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

If you've got a specific field, that you know jobs are there for (nursing), sure, go to college, if you know that's what you want. If you're going to college to figure out what you want, you're wasting money.

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 02:17 PM
I tell everyone I know that college is a waste of money, unless you have a specific reason to go.

My wife's a nurse, she went to a 4 year school to get her R.N. degree, along with 4 cousins of mine.

I've got another cousin who's mission in life is cancer research. So far he's been going to school for 16 years after high school.

He's got his masters, a ph.d. and a couple of other degrees. One thing, is that he's far enough into it that he's getting his schooling paid for, by working there, kinda a high buck work study program.

Anyways, I've got other cousins / relatives that have business management degrees, including one that specialized in international business, with a masters. He decided he didn't like the everyday 9-5, so he's a cowboy on a dude ranch in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

If you've got a specific field, that you know jobs are there for (nursing), sure, go to college, if you know that's what you want. If you're going to college to figure out what you want, you're wasting money.


There are plenty of people who would recommend otherwise, depending on how broad you want your statement to be.

The year after high school, a friend and I enrolled in 4 college classes together.

I only liked one class, but disliked the other three. My friend, liked two of the classes. That exposure and investment, enabled us to test the water and get a feel for what we like. But the tuition was not a waste, because we still learned from all 4 of the classes. Then, 4 years later, I enrolled in something different, which was landscape technology.

The aim and goal of students, should be education first, money second. If somebody goes to college, like what they learned, but doesn't earn money from the college education, it's up to them to decide if it was a waste of money or time. Some people enjoy college.

HOOLIE
12-02-2006, 02:25 PM
College isn't necesarily a waste of time...I just feel for the real young guys, they don't have any life experience and to zone in on cutting grass for a life-long career at age 14-17 may be a bit premature. I got a degree, nothing to do with mowing :laugh: but more importantly I checked out various things and decided I liked the green industry the best. So no "what if's"......

apowell18
12-02-2006, 08:35 PM
Many young people really don't know what they want to do with their lives. That's why you go to college. You take a broad range of classes to test the waters. I've learned from every class that I have taken, whether I enjoyed the class or not. Now I'm beginning my Masters this spring. And I'm starting in the lawn biz, as well.

What burns me most when people say they haven't met one degreed individual worth a damn, is the fact that it's the same people that consistently misspell the same word in every post they make.

I have an education, a shingle (the piece of paper), and will recieve another in a year for a Master of Arts in Education. For those that think it is a waste of money, that's fine and dandy. Just remember it's those degreed individuals that are teaching your kids, healing your sickness, and managing your taxes, etc.

The reason kids go to college is because parents want them to have it better than they did. The opportunities are in college, not at home working labor for $10/hour...
I've stated before that my BS is in Psychology (worthless)...but I wouldn't trade the experience of college for anything. Those of you that never went will never know. Now I work a labor job because I have a family to support. I work with my dad, who sent me to college with his own dime. He has sent all four of his children through college on his own dime (one just beginning now). If it was a waste of time and money he would have stopped paying after I graduated.

mdvaden
12-02-2006, 08:45 PM
Many young people really don't know what they want to do with their lives. That's why you go to college. You take a broad range of classes to test the waters. I've learned from every class that I have taken, whether I enjoyed the class or not. Now I'm beginning my Masters this spring. And I'm starting in the lawn biz, as well.

What burns me most when people say they haven't met one degreed individual worth a damn, is the fact that it's the same people that consistently misspell the same word in every post they make.

I have an education, a shingle (the piece of paper), and will recieve another in a year for a Master of Arts in Education. For those that think it is a waste of money, that's fine and dandy. Just remember it's those degreed individuals that are teaching your kids, healing your sickness, and managing your taxes, etc.

The reason kids go to college is because parents want them to have it better than they did. The opportunities are in college, not at home working labor for $10/hour...
I've stated before that my BS is in Psychology (worthless)...but I wouldn't trade the experience of college for anything. Those of you that never went will never know. Now I work a labor job because I have a family to support. I work with my dad, who sent me to college with his own dime. He has sent all four of his children through college on his own dime (one just beginning now). If it was a waste of time and money he would have stopped paying after I graduated.

Your reply is rather productive.

I somehow missed this topic for a day or two, until it expanded quite a bit.

One of the most intriguing aspects of most of the replies, was that either a few people mentioned their college, or, other people had very little to say about the benefits of education.

A lot was said about how someone could go "laughing to the bank" making more than some people with college education.

Somehow the focus stayed away from the fact, that college education builds the engineers that produce lawn mowers, builds marketing professionals that make products available.

Not to mention the leaps in education from people like Dr. Alex Shigo, who recently passed away.

Most of our professional tools, products and educational books would not be available without college programs, nor would computers, software or internet services that provide benefits including LawnSite and other forums.

So your reply really keeps things in line with professional priorities.

Most people I know - degree or not - don't laugh on the way to the bank; they are thankful on their way to the bank.

green_with_envy
12-02-2006, 10:03 PM
I went to college..now I mow. I'm also retired young a couple years back from a professional career and this is just for fun....it just took off like wild fire. I'm having a ball!

TNT LawnCare Inc.
12-02-2006, 10:42 PM
Everyone 's entitled to there opinion. I really don't care what.. M.D.Vaden said. Theres nothing wrong with education,wish i had the chance to go to college. But i'am older and dont have the time. I'am trying to get my son interested in the field. Just because someone has an education though doesnt make them a PRO. Ive seen many people who were book smart and very intelligent over the years ,but when it came to working in the field they did'nt know Landscaping from Lawncare. :waving:

crab
12-02-2006, 11:27 PM
ok enough is enough,either every one is really insecure about who they are and what they do, or they just read the original thread wrong.for the love of god!you mow lawns ,you put them in ,i still haven't seen you on iron chef!.And enough cutting on architechs ,because you cant read a damn grading plan, please don't put down the whole profession.They work to create useful and interesting spaces regardless of where you think you should pile you're f@#$%^ snow.this is they most annoying thread Ive yet to read on this site ,if you're so God@##$ unsure of yourself get afuk#$% office job.relax!!!!!!!!!!

Az Gardener
12-02-2006, 11:58 PM
ok enough is enough,either every one is really insecure about who they are and what they do, or they just read the original thread wrong.

Crab, I agree completly, with this part of your post.

McV, Shigo did his research in the field he was not a lab rat. He was a park ranger for years it was not until his retirement that he had the free time to devote to the research that we all benefit from.

Apowell, I don't disagree that college is a great life experience. We should all do what makes us happy. I work with my wife in the office she has no background in accounting but is very intelligent and we have a great CPA to guide us. The business would probably run smoother if I were to hire a experienced accountant but I value the time we spend together so hiring someone is not an option for me. My choice

What bugs me is people suggesting traditional college is the best way to get ahead in this world. Great life experience but if someone is looking for the fast track to financial independence I don't think college is the ticket for most things.

I especially feel bad for the single mother who is busting butt missing time with children to get that piece of paper that may or may not be the ticket to financial independence.

Or the young guy that has 3-4 years into a LCO and just finished high school. Now everyone talks him into dumping it to go to college. For the life experience OK I get it. To build a better business later :nono: I believe he looses valuable time. I agree he needs some education but full time basic college will not be a good return on investment. Some hort classes, a Quick books class if he chooses not to hire an accountant, a good business coach. Now you are getting a return on your investment that pays off right now. Money well spent.

You should never stop learning but I would be careful who you learn from.

apowell18
12-03-2006, 01:08 AM
AZ Gardener...well stated...I agree with some...but just to be a smartass, there is no such thing as financial independence...Bill Gates is still dependant on money, and making it...and I know you wouldn't trade a better run business for the time you and your wife spend together fussing over it (wish I had that luxury with my wife)...

My main point that I should clarify is that college (traditional) is important not only for the academics, but for the entire experience...exposure to life outside ours and an understanding of things foreign to us. I slam my own degree in Psychology for being worthless, however in reality it has helped me raise my children better and my marraige.

If a young individual has a choice, my opinion is traditional schooling. Unfortunetely many do not...get what you can and what you need. In this field particularly go to a JUCO and get the learning you need to be the best at what you do...

The world needs shingles to give pay raises and open doors...that's the way it is...if my business fails I will always have my "piece of paper" to fall back on and utilize...

TURFLORD
12-03-2006, 07:24 AM
Sure does. Good to see you post.

And pertinent education too. Your company profile seems to fit the landscape & lawn service combos that I mentioned when I began the other thread.

In Oregon, many people who have the knowledge to be landscape contractors, will offer just lawn service. It's because they want to do some, or a lot of installation - a variety at least.

Part of it is customer service. In Oregon, a landscape contractor license is needed to modify irrigation systems, which goes hand in hand with lawn service. At minimum, that's one motive for the landscape contractor license here.

Not sure how many people noticed, but TurfLord was about the only person recently who inferred "all" lawn people to be stupid.

There's an illustration I just added in the other thread, about a Silversmith he reminded me of that tried to get people bent out of shape.Are you so conceited that you can't admit that your original post smacks of egotism? Can you really not see it?

roger miller
12-03-2006, 08:04 AM
I read a book recently that states that 84% of millionaires today didn't have a B average in high school and many have no college education. Guess there's hope for lots of mowing guys.

LindblomRJ
12-03-2006, 09:21 AM
The only thing I have concluded, with some college education:
Education does not guarantee success, nor does lack of education guarantee failure.

mdvaden
12-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Are you so conceited that you can't admit that your original post smacks of egotism? Can you really not see it?

I'm wrapping up this topic for now with this reply to TURFLORD...

I saw your opening post in the biolubricant thread, and thought you were off your rocker. But I saw your recent reply in there, which shows that you have some good principles.

So here's the scoop.

I can't apologize for the intention of what I wrote in the other thread, because it was not a put-down. If you don't believe me, give it a rest for about a week, then go back and reread it. If you still don't see what I meant, okay.

Now, I can say I'm sorry that I didn't write it differently, including adding a question mark to the title. It was intended to be a question. But the edit cut-off here is 10 minutes.

There are dozens of times in a month where I'd like to change a reply somewhere. Arborist Site for example has that option, indefinitely, but not Lawn Site.

Thanks for showing your principles.

DBL
12-03-2006, 02:37 PM
college we dont need no stinkin college

hoyboy
12-03-2006, 04:09 PM
If you are of the opinion that education is for the purpose of obtaining a means of gainful employment, then yes, college can be, and is, a waste of time for many. That mindset is quite pervasive in this world of entitlement thinking and sheep following. Go to school, get a job, and make a good union wage. I submit to you that this symptomatic of a society that has lost it's competetive edge. The individualism and entrepreneurial spirit of this country has been squashed. It is not dead, but it certainly has taken a blow. I do not think it such a coincidence that this mindset is directly correlated to the rise of socialistic policies in this country.

On the other hand, if education is sought for the purpose of improving the whole person...body, mind and spirit...then it's benefits are not graded by a chosen career. Instead, they are judged by the character instilled in the individual. Character then delivers excellence...excellence in family, excellence in work, excellence in life, etc. A well educated person is then free to choose his career. That career may or may not be his college major, but more importantly will be his passion. And dare I say, passionate people are entrepreneurs. Passionate people invent things. They start companies (yes! even lawn maintenance companies!) They compete to the end. They don't care about a time clock. They don't care about fitting in. Know many union people like that? I don't. Maybe there are some, but not many. Our education system has lost it's way.

That's why I like lawnsite. It's filled with people with a passion. I think passionate, excellence-seeking people will find their way in this world. Lawnsite is full of them. I think "educated" passionate, excellence-seeking people will not only find their way, they will lead the way.

Turfcutters Plus
12-03-2006, 05:08 PM
I get off on the money i make for time spent.Neighbors comments used to bother me,now i get off on it!They make it sound impossible.I know the numbers.Damn i am good!Corparate america,bend over and kiss your bosses *ss!!!

Patriot Services
12-03-2006, 06:30 PM
Oh NO!!!!! John Kerry is right! Now all us stoopid lawn boys are going to be sent to Iraq. Wait a minute! I already went! Do I have an excuse not to go now?

walker/redmax
12-03-2006, 07:59 PM
........................................

meets1
12-03-2006, 08:35 PM
This may have been mentioned but there are a few pages and alot to read. I went to college - Biz adminstration & finance degree. Been doing lawn care since grade school - now were doing pretty well. But I did give a bank a shot during 2 winters at college - interned at that bank as well. Thought about getting my series & lic. for investments but after working in the banking world - just wasn't me.

I think college is something that everyone should attend - at least some form of higher education - even if that means a few marketing clases at a local college or 2 yr program. Yes, it cost some money but for some parents that pay for there childrens ed. is a high priced way of paying for a babysitter. I have choosen the working world with common sense and street smarts. There are days we work our a*& off and I am getting older to where I notice the small aches and pains more and more. My back, knees, etc. Worse case I figure is that if I am unable to perform this work I can always go back o n EXPEREINCE of the lawn care biz and the education I have to back up my life long experiences in the field.

The thing college taught me - is how to relate, get along with, and socialize with the other people from other relhms of the world. BE it the pretty girl to the college jock to the pres of the college.

My 2 cents for now I guess

apowell18
12-04-2006, 03:44 AM
HOYBOY: You need to update some of your research...over 98% of employers are small business' in the US...entrepreneur spririt is at it's highest in history...not to mention unions are shrinking by the year and now make up less than 30% of the workforce...you are way off base with your comments...you may view it that way, but the stats and reality say otherwise...all you have to do is read the business section of your local paper every other day and you will see these stats...get to it...

LawnBrother
12-04-2006, 10:24 AM
I'm gonna chime in on this one. I never went to college, well, not for any length of time. I am very intelligent and I was always an A student. Everyone had high hopes for me and always asked me as a teenager what college I wanted to go to etc. I did not really know what I wanted to do as a career so I said I wanted a year off before college and everyone told me I would never go back to school. Under parental pressure I enrolled in college right out of school, but dropped out after the first quarter because I saw it as a waste of time. I took my year off and never went back. I went to a trade school for a while and realized I could not spend the rest of my life working for someone else. It just wasn't in my heart. Well, now I am 29. The lawn business is doing fine but I think every day how much I could have benefited from a college education. Now I have the opporunity to go back to school at a major university on the CHEAP. Since in my heart I was always an entrepreneur, I plan to take business related classes and others but mostly business. I am very excited about going back. Although I don't neccessarily regret my years spent partying and messing around, I feel they envisioned me, I do regret that I didn't get a proper education when I had more time to do it right. College would have envisioned me also and would now be a valuable asset. Yes, it is possible to do very well in life with no degree or college education, as street smarts will go a long way as an entrepreneur/business owner, but coupled with a college education you are much better equipped for all aspects of starting/running businesses and will have more business connections as a result of school. If you are young and wondering about ditching college to run your LCO, DON'T DO IT! You can gain valuable experience running a smaller operation and make great money and still have time for school. Don't make the same mistake I did, get that education.

mouse
12-04-2006, 12:16 PM
don't know where else an uneducated orphan can make this kind of money, take winters off, be my own boss, own nice equipment and have time to read lawnsite.

topsites
12-04-2006, 01:27 PM
One thing's for sure, that can be gained from the length and active participation in this thread:

I (and I dare say WE) obviously take offense to this all too common pitfall of some other people's perception of us.

Dumb we ain't, but we sure fell for this troller :laugh:

BCFLawnLandscape
12-04-2006, 01:48 PM
I don't agree with this assumption. It depends on what you call "smart" I know people who are great with math and english, but have no common sense. I also have a 4 year degree, and after I got out of school, decided to start my own business. How do you call someone stupid that runs his own business and doesn't have to go and listen to a boss tell him where to go, what to do and when to go to the bathroom.

Everyone's opinion on stupidity will differ, just depends on whether or not you want to seperate book smarts from street smarts. I'd almost rather have the street smarts!

TJLANDS
12-04-2006, 02:54 PM
How do you call someone stupid that runs his own business and doesn't have to go and listen to a boss tell him where to go, what to do and when to go to the bathroom.

I know many "stupid" people that "own" lawn and landscape companies. Many of these companies, and we have all seen them, give the lawn service industry a bad rep.

About the college issue. I have a degree in Computer Sciences of all things. Worked on Wall St. for a year before deciding that I could not work for anyone. There are still times when people look over at me at parties or such and say "you cut grass for a living". And I say Yes I do!

Turfcutters Plus
12-04-2006, 06:18 PM
One thing's for sure, that can be gained from the length and active participation in this thread:

I (and I dare say WE) obviously take offense to this all too common pitfall of some other people's perception of us.

Dumb we ain't, but we sure fell for this troller :laugh:
That's funny and truetopsites!Guilty as charged.

S man
12-04-2006, 11:17 PM
I'm going to college for landscaping and business when I get out of high school. A lot of my friends chuckle when they think that all I'm going to do is mow lawns when they become lawyers and engineers. But I would love to see them try what I do for a day. As for money, this business has plenty of green. payup

Military Lawns
12-04-2006, 11:25 PM
Business is business. Everbody pick one and make money.

Tim

I agree Tim! I am educated (B.S e-Business., B.A Organizational Management. and M.S. Management). Not only do I own the business but I mow the grass...why? Because I like the outdoors being my own boss and marching to my own beat.

I also own a car dealership specializing in Mustangs and Corvettes. Only in America is free enterprise actually free..like Tim said pick a business and make money!

DJ-:usflag: :weightlifter:

Envy Lawn Service
12-05-2006, 12:52 AM
Well, I'm just gonna tell the truth...

I didn't take time to read this whole thread, nor will I.
Not because I can't read, but because I don't feel like it, LOL...

Anyways, here's my take on the subject...

Truth of the matter is that I often think that we members here take for granted that we are in "well above average company" here for the most part.

That being said, there honestly are a whole lot of dumb people who try to make a go of a lawn and landscape business. Some manage to suceed in earning some sort of living at it too. I can also tell you that there are a lot of idiots in the Green Industry with degrees too. If you haven't seen the work of a moron landscape architect or landscape designer... I can promise you there are plenty out there.

That being said, there are a whole lot of folks in this business that are not exactly the sharpest tool in the truck, degree or no degree. Likewise, there are a lot of people inside and outside of the industry that like to make stupid stereotypical assumptions too. Me... I could care less.

As for the subject of being a "degree'd" landscaper, or lawn guy, or whatever... I had a young man ask me once what my thoughts were on the subject. I asked him what his plans were and he answered with a puzzled look on his face. I then replied the following......

"If you are going to be the one owning the business or be self employed, a degree hanging on your office wall is not much of a consolation prize. Not unless you are going to open a landscape architecture firm and be 'the' architect instead of hiring one.... or unless you need a degree as a part of your quest to gain some sort of licensing status in the area where you plan to set up shop as a landscape design/installation outfit.

Otherwise you are better off taking a couple of classes to actually learn how to run your own office instead of worrying about earning something to hang on the wall."

And that friends and neighbors is the truth. Go a semester at a small college and take some certificate classes like accounting/book keeping, business, sales and marketing, professional research and reporting, office/database, a communications class if you need it, and possibly even a psychology class... LOL.

Point being... learn some JOB SKILLS that will qualify you to fill the position of manager for the business you will own.

WildWest
12-05-2006, 01:55 AM
Ya know, I'm grateful for the people that go to college and learn a profession, that's what gives us our Doctors, engineers, and scientists. I don't knock them and I think that it's a good thing that they have taken their path in life. They made a decision and followed through with a degree in their field.
I'm JUST as thankful for the guy that picks up my trash every week, fixes my flat tires, paints my house or repairs a dent in my car.
WE ALL make this country what it is today.

I don't look down at ANY profession.... we need them all! If you don't think so, try and get SOMEONE with a degree to replace a septic tank! or pull and rebuild a transmission.

There are more millionaires WITHOUT a degree, than there are WITH degrees!

Josh.S
12-05-2006, 08:57 AM
There are more millionaires WITHOUT a degree, than there are WITH degrees!

I highly doubt it... but good point anyhow..

BBN
12-06-2006, 03:00 PM
That's the misguided perception of stupid.

Stupid: wasting money on lottery tickets thinking you'll eventually hit the big one. Buying electronics, new vehicles just to look good in the driveway, gizmos, gadgets, doohickies and wahetever else to keep up with "The Jonses" and going into spiraling debt in the whole process while not saving or investing a nickel in the process for your future. Not having some sort of savings in case of emergencies that cost a big chunk of money.

Smart: Finding good vehicles based on reliability rather than impressing your friends, not buying the logo on the car, shirt, pants, etc. Making plans to have some sort of nest egg for the future. Living on less than you earn and last always have a savings on hand for emergencies that will require cash

I'm sorry but I personally know many people with college degrees that fit in the first catagory. Stupid and smart aren't simply based on what you do in life. Stupid and smart are based on what you do with the means you have available.

little piggy
12-06-2006, 04:23 PM
IM 20 years old and attending a community college. I dont officially have my own buisness yet, i picked up a few yard over the past summer, one of them, my bosses, who lives in a small subdivision, paid about $3,000 to have his yard killed off, leveled, and hydroseeded. about a month later he lells me he wants me to start mowing for him again because the landscaper/ grasscutter he hired failed to show up for about 2 weeks, and his yard still floods. it actually looks like the entire subdivision drains strait to his corner now. Im a 20 year old college kid with 3 yards and have already run into a landscapers mistake( over educated, under skilled). Im not bashing all landscapers, just the education is over-rated.

Allure
12-06-2006, 04:29 PM
80% of our millionaire friends have a college degree. In this day and age in the land of opportunity, you need to pursue higher education. The more you know about the game, the better you will be able to play. So crack open those books with gusto. http://www.askmen.com/money/successful/53b_success.html

For what it is worth

According to CNN Money, 8.2 million households in the US alone had a net worth exceeding one million dollars. Millionaire households thus constituted roughly seven percent of all American households. The study also found that half of all millionaire households in the US were headed by retirees. Another finding was a record "33 percent increase over the 6.2 million households that met that criteria in 2003," fueled largely by the country's real estate boom.[3]

If, however, only financial assets are to be counted in determining a person's wealth, EXCLUDING REAL ESTATE equity and other fixed assets, then the number of millionaires in North America drops dramatically. A report by Merrill Lynch stated that if only direct financial assets are counted, there are approximately 2.5 million millionaire households in North America, versus 8.2 million in the US alone if all net worth is counted.

That still leaves 1.6 million millionaires who don't have a degree.

bj1bmx
12-06-2006, 05:02 PM
I can admit im stupid but im running a co0uple businesses and makin money so who cares. I have no book smarts at all only street smarts

I dont know how much you are worth, but if you are driving a $55k Mercedes and buying a $700k house and not making over $150-200k a year, you most likely ARE a moron.


unless you are worth more than a million, your money is not being put to very good use buying a worthless car and overpriced real estate.

this is America at its worst

bj1bmx
12-06-2006, 05:16 PM
this thread started out because an ignorant person either wanted to start an argument or because they wanted to generalize an entire profession. here we are 13 pages later, and all of the posts relate to whether or not a college degree is a waste of money and how many people in this country are millionaires.

is the only thing people care about here is money? i am glad I went to school and got my MBA in business. I LEARNED a lot that will be beneficial in the future for additional businesses that I will be opening. i enjoy starting and operating businesses. i did not do it directly for the money nor did I think that having a masters degree would ensure me a corporate job. i went to learn and to invest in my self. college is not a waste if you put it to good use and make your time spent worthwhile. you will not be able to get a bachelors degree and make much more off the start than someone that owns a lawn company. you will probably make substantially less in fact. it is all the choices that you make as an individual as to where your life will go. if you want to move up in a company, put your time in and work hard. you WILL need a degree. if you want to own your own business, put your time in and watch it grow.

no one here is any less worthy than the other. you all have your strengths and weaknesses. the same applies for those who did not choose this career. if you dont like mowing lawns, get out. if you do, who cares what other people say.

S man
12-06-2006, 09:08 PM
Ya know, I'm grateful for the people that go to college and learn a profession, that's what gives us our Doctors, engineers, and scientists. I don't knock them and I think that it's a good thing that they have taken their path in life. They made a decision and followed through with a degree in their field.
I'm JUST as thankful for the guy that picks up my trash every week, fixes my flat tires, paints my house or repairs a dent in my car.
WE ALL make this country what it is today.

I don't look down at ANY profession.... we need them all! If you don't think so, try and get SOMEONE with a degree to replace a septic tank! or pull and rebuild a transmission.

There are more millionaires WITHOUT a degree, than there are WITH degrees!

I agree with you.

mr.greenjeans
12-06-2006, 09:23 PM
At one time I could'nt spell graduate but now I are one

Josh.S
12-06-2006, 09:38 PM
no one here is any less worthy than the other. you all have your strengths and weaknesses. the same applies for those who did not choose this career. if you dont like mowing lawns, get out. if you do, who cares what other people say.

Some of us make to much money to quit....

Grass Kickin
12-07-2006, 12:21 AM
I spent half an hour blowing leaves INTO the wind today...man I must be ******ed

If you are getting paid by the hour, you did OK.

I don't think anyone needs a college degree in this field to be successful. I took offense to the original post because it sounded very arrogant. I'm sure many of us have degrees in other fields that are about as useless as a degree in landscape design.

mdvaden
12-07-2006, 12:55 AM
80% of our millionaire friends have a college degree. In this day and age in the land of opportunity, you need to pursue higher education. The more you know about the game, the better you will be able to play. So crack open those books with gusto. http://www.askmen.com/money/successful/53b_success.html

For what it is worth

According to CNN Money, 8.2 million households in the US alone had a net worth exceeding one million dollars. Millionaire households thus constituted roughly seven percent of all American households. The study also found that half of all millionaire households in the US were headed by retirees. Another finding was a record "33 percent increase over the 6.2 million households that met that criteria in 2003," fueled largely by the country's real estate boom.[3]

If, however, only financial assets are to be counted in determining a person's wealth, EXCLUDING REAL ESTATE equity and other fixed assets, then the number of millionaires in North America drops dramatically. A report by Merrill Lynch stated that if only direct financial assets are counted, there are approximately 2.5 million millionaire households in North America, versus 8.2 million in the US alone if all net worth is counted.

That still leaves 1.6 million millionaires who don't have a degree.

There was reply just above this, by SNAPPERARIENS agreeing with a quote by WILDWEST. Wildwest's statement said that there were more millionaires without a degree, than with a degree - if I read that right.

Anyhow, your comments that I quoted seem to align with what I've been finding, like this:

Most are first-generation millionaires who became wealthy as business owners or executives; most did not inherit their wealth.

-90% are college graduates, and 52% hold advanced degrees; however, few graduated top of their class - most were "B" students. They learned two lessons from college: discipline and tenacity.

BBN
12-07-2006, 01:26 PM
At one time I could'nt spell graduate but now I are one
now, if you could just the grammar part. j/k :laugh:

BBN
12-07-2006, 03:57 PM
Like a previous poster mentioned all professions have their importance and I don't look at anyone as stupid as long as they're a productive tax-paying member of society. An arrogant person can look at a trashman as stupid but I bet he sings a different tune if that trashman decided not to swing by for pickup for a few weeks(example; sanitation worker strikes in big cities). Then their importance is REALLY discovered.

Bel Air Bob
12-07-2006, 08:00 PM
It was suggested recently that lawn cutters are all stupid because they never went to college. By comparision, all landscapers are so well educated that they are in a higher caste. The criteria for this revelation is solely that this particular forum contains so many questions from grass cutters in ratio to landscapers. Scroll down a couple of pages and you'll find the thread. I thought I should bump this issue back to the forefront because it so smacks of arrogance and egotism. So tell me fellow mowrons, are you feeling stupid today? Do you feel this assumption to be accurate?
I have a B.S. and it has done almost nothing to help me in my career. It does open some doors that would otherwise remain closed, but anyone who would assume someone to be stupid simply because they never went to college is stupid themselves. As for questions, the only stupid question is the one not asked. You learn from asking questions. If you don't know and want to know something, but don't ask, shame on you. I ask questions because I want to learn. I read this sight because I want to learn. I also enjoy helping others learn. So I am not concerned with whatever someone else says about lawn guys asking questions.