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View Full Version : 8" Resilient Wedge Valve


PurpHaze
11-30-2006, 08:47 PM
Getting ready to cut in an isolation valve on part of a looped 8" main line at our newest high school. We'll probably install it next week with the aid of the Bobcat backhoe. Today we got the parts together and set the valve up for easier install. Note the "Duck Butter" pipe lubricant. :)

jerryrwm
11-30-2006, 08:57 PM
A sponge??? It's more fun to jab your fingers in the tub and swab it on by hand. 'course people have told me I'm not 'right'!!:rolleyes:

Dirty Water
11-30-2006, 10:00 PM
I use a cloth rag.

I'm surprised you went with gasket fit on that 8" valve. The few HUGE valves I've installed I've used bolt on flanges on either side of the valve.

Dirty Water
11-30-2006, 10:30 PM
So, when your using gaskets and you don't want to hack two sticks up for the factory beveled edge, do you spend 10 minutes with a file on each stick?

Also, don't forget to bolt that valve together before you turn the water back on :D

PurpHaze
12-01-2006, 09:05 AM
A sponge??? It's more fun to jab your fingers in the tub and swab it on by hand. 'course people have told me I'm not 'right'!!:rolleyes:

This was my partner Leo's first experience with Duck Butter. I provided the guidance as to how long to cut the pieces, how/where to bevel the ends, etc. and pretty much left everything else up to him. He decided that since we weren't down in a trench putting a lot of pipe together that he'd use the Sponge Bob Squarepants Duck Butter Application Method. :laugh:

PurpHaze
12-01-2006, 09:24 AM
I use a cloth rag.

I gave him the option of rag, sponge or glove.:)

I'm surprised you went with gasket fit on that 8" valve. The few HUGE valves I've installed I've used bolt on flanges on either side of the valve.

Actually, we inherited the valve. It was purchased by the contractor that had to reroute an 8" main loop portion around the area where a new pool is being put in. That would have been capped and then we would take the old isolation valve and move it about 500 yards to the new location. Originally the plan was to move down the main line about 60', cut in a new tee, set the new isolation valve and then reroute. However, that cross section of another loop was only a 6" line so they went back to where the 8" main loop started just beyond the first isolation valve and used 45s to jog around the pool construction area.

So, when your using gaskets and you don't want to hack two sticks up for the factory beveled edge, do you spend 10 minutes with a file on each stick?

The 8" stick already had a beveled end even though it was glue type pipe. I checked and the bevel was close enough that it worked and pounded right into the valve. All Leo really had to do was bevel one end of a new 18" stub. There was no hurry since we were doing all the prep work at the shop but I guess it took him about thirty minutes to bevel.

PurpHaze
01-18-2007, 10:23 PM
Finally got caught up enough that we started the installation of this isolation valve. It took 2-1/2 hours just to pump the water out after we cut the 8" main line. Guess we need a bigger pump or maybe buy a second pump for these large main lines. However, we busied ourselves with a couple other work orders on the same site while waiting. Everything went fine the first time (as usual) and the valve is now set in place. We'll backfill, sleeve the operating nut and install the Christy box tomorrow. Would have completed the whole thing today but we got a late start due to our monthly safety meeting.

Dirty Water
01-18-2007, 10:39 PM
So, who got the job of cutting the main while it was under pressure? :)

I've never installed a wedge valve, I'm guessing its similar to a gate valve from the look of it. Got a cutaway diagram somewhere?

PurpHaze
01-18-2007, 10:46 PM
So, who got the job of cutting the main while it was under pressure? :)

We split the duties. I made the initial cut but we took the pressure off the main line first by inserting a QC key/blowout on a nearby baseball field.

I've never installed a wedge valve, I'm guessing its similar to a gate valve from the look of it. Got a cutaway diagram somewhere?

They are still classified as a gate valve. The wedge shaped stop and the wedge seat are coated with a rubberized material that "meshes" together and creates a positive shut-off.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2007, 12:25 AM
There have been resilient wedge gate valves in smaller brass sweat-connection sizes. I would hazard a guess that they have a better reliability record than most ball valves, as far as being able to be absolutely drip-tight off, year after year.

PurpHaze
01-19-2007, 09:46 AM
Got a cutaway diagram somewhere?

http://www.waterworksind.com/wtrwrkdvn/Valves/mueller/gtvlv.htm

This has a cutaway.

hoskm01
01-21-2007, 09:28 AM
So then this valve just serves as a shut off point for that line? No other purpose?

PurpHaze
01-21-2007, 09:38 AM
So then this valve just serves as a shut off point for that line? No other purpose?

That's correct. This system is a multi-looped main line system and with the addition of this valve we can now isolate the football field area (in conjunction with an existing isolation valve on the other end of this side loop) in the event of a problem without killing the water to a large area. Prior to this installation we had to shut down four isolation valves, killing perhaps 3/4 of the athletic fields area.

hoskm01
01-21-2007, 11:15 AM
Out of curiosity... You say the valve was inherited from the contractor. Typically when something is inherited, it is worth a bit of money. How much does a valve like that cost? How about for the whole setup you put in there? Good lookin work by the way.

How much flow is put out on that football field from an 8" line? How many zones, size heads? Big irrigation is rather fascinating in scale.

Dirty Water
01-21-2007, 02:31 PM
I'd wager that valve cost least $1500.

PurpHaze
01-22-2007, 09:20 AM
Out of curiosity... You say the valve was inherited from the contractor. Typically when something is inherited, it is worth a bit of money. How much does a valve like that cost? How about for the whole setup you put in there? Good lookin work by the way.

This particular valve runs right about $1000 our cost. Add the Dresser couplings, Christy box and a full stick of 8" pipe (although we only used about 5' of it) and the parts came out to right around $1500. That is our cost but we don't add anything additional for parts and we don't charge out labor.

How much flow is put out on that football field from an 8" line? How many zones, size heads? Big irrigation is rather fascinating in scale.

The football field alone puts out around 120 GPM per zone running through Hunter I-40 sprinklers. There would be two other field systems running at the same time and two controllers for the school's interior and front (smaller sprinklers) running simultaneously.

PurpHaze
01-22-2007, 09:21 AM
I'd wager that valve cost least $1500.

Pretty good guess Jon.

hoskm01
01-25-2007, 11:36 AM
Wow, quite a system. I would love to work on something putting out that kind of water. Nice work.

PurpHaze
01-25-2007, 10:33 PM
It's really not a whole lot different than working on smaller pipe. Just need a bigger hole, bigger parts and a little more planning. In contrast we dug up and repaired a 1" QCV line today at one of the schools and were done in 1/2 hour. :)

koster_irrigation
01-29-2007, 09:30 AM
P-619-rw-8
8" Cast Iron Gate Valve Ring Tite Pushon

$381.55

PurpHaze
01-29-2007, 09:35 AM
P-619-rw-8
8" Cast Iron Gate Valve Ring Tite Pushon

$381.55

Dang... Wish we could get that kind of price from our local supplier. That's about what a 3" valve cost us. :)

koster_irrigation
01-29-2007, 09:52 AM
3" 164.10

Dirty Water
01-29-2007, 09:30 PM
Hayes is government, so they take the highest price and then use a multiplier...Usually the multiplier is a decimal that decreases the price, but not in Government issues :)

PurpHaze
01-29-2007, 11:05 PM
Yup... not MY money. :usflag:

Actually, we get quite good price multipliers on our supplies. However, things like the RW valves are handled through a plumbing supply house. These are not items that are handled by your irrigation supply houses unless they handle "underground" items also.

Koster... have an URL for these great prices?

koster_irrigation
01-30-2007, 07:53 PM
Yeh, but its password protected for customers only www.smithturf.com
I'll see what i can do


Do you have a better shot of that wire caddy? im looking to build one for 2500' spools and 500' spools
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68793&stc=1&d=1164933910

Dirty Water
01-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Koster, are you using purely 14 guage?

Since we use multistrand, we haven't had the need for a wirecaddy.

PurpHaze
01-30-2007, 11:52 PM
Do you have a better shot of that wire caddy? im looking to build one for 2500' spools and 500' spools.

Those are 2500' spools of 14 gauge in the picture. We buy a few of the smaller 500' spools in different colors to keep on the trucks for smaller repairs and installations.

I don't have a better picture at the moment. I've sent myself an email at work to remind me to take a couple of pics (with and without the wire spools on) of it tomorrow and then I'll post them for you tomorrow night.

The caddy was built by our mechanic who is quite a fabricator.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 09:01 PM
Koster, are you using purely 14 guage?

Since we use multistrand, we haven't had the need for a wirecaddy.

I use both. 2500' and 500' rolls single strand 14 are the same price per foot here. Its easier to handle the 500's (my install guys appreciate them).

I run multistrand (18 guage) out of most all residential controllers. Thats down the inside wall.
Some of my competition runs white PVC down the wall from the controller, its all on personal pref. i guess. running multistrand doesnt bother me. Fastened proper like- on the stud lines. with black zip ties for the power cord

If its convienient, i'll continue to run the multistrand to the first valve box from the controller. Or if its not, i'll do a splicing valve box outside the house (garage) wall from the controller. Its nice to be able to run 1 cable in the trench. Def. speeds up the install time.

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 10:01 PM
Why not always multistrand? Critter trouble? Sticking 18 guage on a 14 gauge line is like putting a fuse on it and completely kills the extra capacity (in distance) that a 14 gauge line is capable of.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 10:16 PM
My line runs im referring to are for residential and not much more than 100 feet. I install it this way for a time saver.




Commercial or residentals with long zone runs we run our 14 or 12 control wiring up inside conduit to the controller terminals.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 10:53 PM
We run multi through the walls and then splice to 16 or 14 outside in a box. This makes install faster as you arent pulling so much wire through the wall. My experience with problems on old multistrand wire pretty much elimates us using it for field wiring. I have had to replace too much field multistrand over the years. JW

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:01 PM
We're commercial, I guess. Nothing but 14 gauge. :)

Repairs
02-01-2007, 11:04 PM
Unless it is specd on the job I don't think whether or not their is multi to the field wiring has anything to do with commercial or res. I have plenty of commerical sites with 3 or 4 strands of multi going into a service room or what not out to field 14.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 11:10 PM
same thing here

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 11:14 PM
We are exclusively multistrand here, the color coding is a huge time saver, as well as being able to plow in a conduit and then fish it through. I bet you open trench guys don't see the benefits of multistrand as much as plow guys do.

I've also never seen any problems with Multistrand that couldn't happen to regular 14 gauge either.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 11:44 PM
That makes sense. How does plowwing handle some rock? We have plenty of jobs that have lots of fill and I have often wondered about using a plow at least partly to pull laterals if nothing else. Do you use a ride on plow?

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 12:00 AM
We have plenty of jobs that have lots of fill...

Did a repair job today on a 4" main where we needed about 7-1/2 cubic yards of sand to backfill the hole. I'll post the pics in another thread when I have the time.

Dirty Water
02-02-2007, 12:01 AM
We run a Ditchwitch 410sx. Its a walkbeside combo plow/trencher.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41376&d=1125187029

Excuse the mess, the guys hadn't cleaned up the site yet when I snapped that picture.

Here is what the ground looks like immediatly after pulling in a 1.25" pipe at 14":

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41377&d=1125187127

That faint yellow line going left to right is all that happens :)


Our soil up here is mostly a soft loam filled with football sized rocks, most of the valley is former riverbed. When you head west, you hit a heavy clay.

I have a harder time plowing in the clay because of the sheer friction on the pipe over plowing in the rocks. The plow just moves the rocks aside, however we have to use SCH40, as the vibration from the plow causes hairline cracks in class 200 in rocky soil.