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cush
12-04-2006, 07:02 PM
I am doing a bid for a revamp on a TBOS system. I am going with a two wire system but will need to run the wires under the roads in the subdivision. What company should I call or can I do it myself. I would like to run some one inch Polly under the roads and then pull the wires through. There are nine roads total about 100ft wide to go under. Any other suggestions would be helpful.

Dirty Water
12-04-2006, 07:51 PM
You need to get ahold of a company with a directional bore.

Most utility excavation companies have one.

I'd use SCH 40 grey conduit to keep someone from thinking its a waterline and cutting it open.

PurpHaze
12-04-2006, 09:09 PM
Like Jon says... put the wire in conduit. If problems occur in the future then the wire can be pulled out of the conduit and new wire fished through although that's not normally where problems will occur. Poly may end up collapsing under vehicle weight and shifting soil conditions.

cush
12-04-2006, 09:32 PM
Thanks for the replies. What would you guess it would cost to go under all 9 roads?

Dirty Water
12-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Hayes, They are using a utility grade poly for cable and telephone drops now in some areas. Its got a real heavy wall (similar to NSF 200 PSI poly) and is orange. Its advantage is easier fishing.

I'd never run wire in a black poly, as I've cut open "water" pipe before and found wires...

I did some excavation last year for a power service line and the utility linemen layed a wire that came prefished inside of a 2" Poly conduit. It was black with a large red stripe.

So, don't cut those either :)

Cush: I'd say to expect somewhere around $10-$15 a foot. Most of the time they expect you to have a 6' x 24" deep trench ready on both sides of the road as well. If they use an air mole instead of a directional bore, you don't need as big of a starting trench.

ed2hess
12-04-2006, 09:58 PM
Hayes, They are using a utility grade poly for cable and telephone drops now in some areas. Its got a real heavy wall (similar to NSF 200 PSI poly) and is orange. Its advantage is easier fishing.

I'd never run wire in a black poly, as I've cut open "water" pipe before and found wires...

I did some excavation last year for a power service line and the utility linemen layed a wire that came prefished inside of a 2" Poly conduit. It was black with a large red stripe.

So, don't cut those either :)

Cush: I'd say to expect somewhere around $10-$15 a foot. Most of the time they expect you to have a 6' x 24" deep trench ready on both sides of the road as well. If they use an air mole instead of a directional bore, you don't need as big of a starting trench.

Does this price include putting in the poly? I have seven valves that have been stranded away from the controller may be cheaper to go under a couple streets than use those battery devices at $150 a pop?

hoskm01
12-04-2006, 10:41 PM
Can someone enlighten on "TBOS." Doesn't ring a bell here. Sounds like an interesting project.

Dirty Water
12-04-2006, 11:11 PM
Does this price include putting in the poly? I have seven valves that have been stranded away from the controller may be cheaper to go under a couple streets than use those battery devices at $150 a pop?

I think it would be cheaper in my area to bore the roads then to spend over a grand on battery operated valves.

We use Nelson Solo-Rain valves when we HAVE absolutely no other solution. I like them better than the rainbirds, and they are less than $150.

Your area may be different. Look for a utility excavation contractor.


Can someone enlighten on "TBOS." Doesn't ring a bell here. Sounds like an interesting project.

The TBOS Rainbirds attempt at a battery operated valve operated by a hand held portable controller.

You would use the controller to program the valve, and then unplug it from the valve and store it somewhere else.

http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/controllers/tbos.htm

Its a little clunky, and I like hunters WCC system better.

hoskm01
12-04-2006, 11:14 PM
Interesting

PurpHaze
12-05-2006, 08:40 AM
Does this price include putting in the poly? I have seven valves that have been stranded away from the controller may be cheaper to go under a couple streets than use those battery devices at $150 a pop?

You'll have to get a bid from someone on the boring and then compare that to what it would cost you to go battery operated instead. The city here uses the Irritrol IBOC controller (basically an MC-Plus that runs on batteries) in a lot of places (such as street medians) where there is no power. These are a little spendy too. You'll just have to compare prices and then decide what is best for you and your customer.

Mdirrigation
12-05-2006, 08:48 AM
A missile should do the job , If you dont own one , you can rent them . But if you are in irrigation for the long haul , I would suggest buying one of your own . You will use it more often than you think if you have it at your disposal all the time . Ours gets used 3 or 4 times a week on our jobs , and 3 or 4 times a month on other jobs for plumbers and electricians. A 2 inch or a 2 and a half inch are very versitile , a long shaft is better for longer shots .
We have a $ 400.00 minimum and charge $ 17.00 a foot , entry to exit .
So a 20 foot driveway add 6 feet for the pilot hole and 4 foot for the exit hole is a 30 foot shot , total $ 510.00 . It doesnt take long to pay for the missile .

cush
12-05-2006, 09:04 AM
Will it do a 100' run. Where do you buy them at and how much? Thanks for all the replies. The system is already a TBOS and they want to switch it out. There is 70+ controlers and around 200 stations total. This will probably be done in three or four phases over a 3-5 year period.

Wet_Boots
12-05-2006, 09:10 AM
Isn't boring under a road a different animal than under a driveway? Who locates all the utilities? Who has liability for damages the boring might create?

londonrain
12-05-2006, 09:14 AM
Most directional boring companies have a minuim charge. In my area it is a $500.00 min. charge or $10 a foot for long runs. I quoted a 12' driveway bore yesterday at $350.

Wet_Boots
12-05-2006, 09:18 AM
Are there no other wireless options available? Given the time frame, one might expect something to come along and make the rewiring unnecessary.

Eakern & Dog
12-05-2006, 09:23 AM
Get a hold of a cable tv underground subcontractor. They usually have the machines and the insurance. They will most likely already have some spare conduit lying around as well. I think was a cable guy on this forum at one time, but I can't remember his screen name...he may know some in your area.

Eakern & Dog
12-05-2006, 09:45 AM
Isn't boring under a road a different animal than under a driveway? Who locates all the utilities? Who has liability for damages the boring might create?


Yes, it can be. If the road is owned by the county, in a lot of circumstances, you need a work site permit( usually easy to get). If the road is owned by a complex and not county maintained, permits may not be necessary. However, locates are always necessary and the person digging is the one who is supposed to call in the locates. They will be responsible for the bill if any damages occur to other utilities if the locates not off. But, one should read up on the state UPC regulations.......do they require pot holing at each crossing, etc...If the road is managed by DOT one would need a DOT permit and to submit prints, etc... take long rubber boots to wade thru the crud the DOT will put you through. :-) If you have never used a missile with an air compressor or a directional bore machine, I would recommend hiring someone and you be their grunt,so you can learn.
:)

Mdirrigation
12-05-2006, 03:33 PM
Missiling a 100 ft run , thats tricky , The longest I have done is 50 feet .
Ditch witch sells them vemeer sells them .

jerryrwm
12-05-2006, 04:12 PM
Hire a contractor with the equipment to do shots like that. You add a little mark-up to his price and you don't have the headaches. Boring under a 15' sidewalk is a lot easier and more forgiving that trying to shoot under four lanes of roadway, especially with out the equipment and more importantly - the experience. You pop that mole up in the middle of the street and then you've got problems big time. And if you hit a rock or something else that causes the mole to take a dive, you might never dig deep enough to find the hole.

As far as buying the equipment necessary to make those kinds of shots you have to ask yourself how soon you can earn that money back. And that means you have to keep that machine busy. Do you really want to do that?

Hire a contractor and be done with it.

cush
12-05-2006, 04:24 PM
Thanks for all the help. I will call a utility co and get a price. The $10-$15 a foot will probably make them think twice obout upgrading. I think I'll just let them know how much to go under the roads and see how intrested they still are. I really don't want to spend a couple days on a estimate and waste other conrators time if they are not serious.

Mjtrole
12-05-2006, 06:17 PM
our directional bore guy usually charges $12 per ft. plus the materials but we usually supply the conduit/sleeves for it that way it's not marked up a ton, the contractor doing the work is responsible for locates and damage they cause, just make sure they send over a certificate of insurance and don't let them work without seeing one first, its only a simple phone call.

PurpHaze
12-05-2006, 10:19 PM
Isn't boring under a road a different animal than under a driveway?

A whole LOT different animal. You have to be deeper than all the road base and utilities require locating.

Who locates all the utilities?

In our area USA Locate does that. I once did a 50' bore for controller wiring conduit under one of our bus drives and we were required to start 4' deep. There was also a high pressure gas line within 8' of our starting point so needless to say I was VERY cautious starting out. We were 5-1/2' deep by the time we got to the other side but that was with a Borit and not a directional unit. This was the last major bore we attempted and we switched to battery operated options after that one.

Last year the bus drive to the school next to this one was being replaced. I suggested that conduit/sleeves be put in so that bus island could be easily set up with water/wire. They stopped the construction and brought contractors in to install two 4" sleeves. :)

Who has liability for damages the boring might create?

Usually it's the person/contractor actually doing the boring.

PurpHaze
12-05-2006, 10:21 PM
I think was a cable guy on this forum at one time, but I can't remember his screen name...

Uh, maybe... Larry??? :laugh:

PurpHaze
12-05-2006, 10:24 PM
Boring under a 15' sidewalk is a lot easier and more forgiving that trying to shoot under four lanes of roadway, especially with out the equipment and more importantly - the experience. You pop that mole up in the middle of the street and then you've got problems big time.

I watched a company boring for cable access at one of our sites pop up in the middle of a busy four lane road. Not only did they have to re-bore they had to hire a paving sub contractor to come out, dig up the pop-up spot, re-base the street and then pave new asphalt in a 6' x 6' area. :laugh:

Dirty Water
12-05-2006, 10:40 PM
A guy who used to work for me did some time with a fiber optic company as well.

They used the missiles (we call them air moles out here) to bore under roads.

He told me a story about their foreman who was a general jackass. They were taken too long to setup the shot and the foreman insisted that he do the shot. He jumped in the hole and lost the mole half way through the road.

They had to dig up the middle of the road to retrieve it. :)

PurpHaze
12-05-2006, 10:47 PM
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. :)