Doesn't have a Social Security Number....

[TLS]

A bit off topic, but I thought someone here may know best.

Wife and I have a house up for rent.

Several prospective tenants. None are coming back totally clean.

Have a family very interested (Mexican decent), and ready to move immediately. Husband, wife, baby and brother of husband.

They filled out our rental application/credit check form.

The Good:
Husband and brother have been working at same restaurant for 7+ years as cooks/chefs. Two newer nice cars. Rest. owner came with on second meeting and couldn't say enough good about the brothers. Very good workers, always prompt, clean, etc.

The Bad:
They don't use a bank, but most importantly, don't have Social Security numbers. :rolleyes:


Question:
Are they considered illegal immigrants?
Would they have drivers license/insurance?
Would I be doing anything illegal by renting to them?


I have a good feeling about them, but without a SS#, I am unable to perform a credit check.

They are forced to leave current apartment due to new baby crying, noise, etc. This wouldn't be an issue in our rental.


Any help guys?

[carcrz]

yes, no, yes (I think). Not to say they will, but they could skip out whenever they wanted to & you might get left w/ a trashed house, no rent, & no way to track them.

[GreenN'Clean]

Well if they can't show a SS # then they are probably illegal. They don't use bank accounts cause then they can be tracked so they pay for everything with cash money because thats how they get paid for working here illegally.

[GreenN'Clean]

Question is would you rent to any other person without a SS# regardless of there white,black, indian etc?,, If you don't have a SS# then you aren't a legal citizen of the United States

[carcrz]

EXACTLY! Why encourage people to stay illegal?

[prostriper]

I wouldn't even think about it without a SSN, unles they have a valid work visa.

[John Gamba]

A bit off topic, but I thought someone here may know best.

Wife and I have a house up for rent.

Several prospective tenants. None are coming back totally clean.

Have a family very interested (Mexican decent), and ready to move immediately. Husband, wife, baby and brother of husband.

They filled out our rental application/credit check form.

The Good:
Husband and brother have been working at same restaurant for 7+ years as cooks/chefs. Two newer nice cars. Rest. owner came with on second meeting and couldn't say enough good about the brothers. Very good workers, always prompt, clean, etc.

The Bad:
They don't use a bank, but most importantly, don't have Social Security numbers. :rolleyes:


Question:
Are they considered illegal immigrants?
Would they have drivers license/insurance?
Would I be doing anything illegal by renting to them?


I have a good feeling about them, but without a SS#, I am unable to perform a credit check.

They are forced to leave current apartment due to new baby crying, noise, etc. This wouldn't be an issue in our rental.


Any help guys?



Tommy

Ask for a pay stub Or ask the restaurant owner if he got a ss # on them. You need to talk to your state people on renting to a person with out a ss#

[GreenN'Clean]

Well if they were here Legally and have been here working at a restaurant then should have there own SS# you shouldn't have to ask the Business owner. Why should an illegal have the right to rent or work without having a SS#? How many of you have ever tried to rent a house or buy one, buy a car open a bank account or get a job or a drivers license without showing proof of SS#? So why in the hell should illegals get away without doing it? I say don't rent to them tell them to go back to Mexico until they become a legal citizen of America

[Allure]

Well if they can't show a SS # then they are probably illegal. They don't use bank accounts cause then they can be tracked so they pay for everything with cash money because thats how they get paid for working here illegally.

exactly. If there is a problem down the road & you need to collect money from them you will probably have a really hard time. I can't see going to court & announcing to the judge that you rented to an illegal with no social, who is probably working off the books & paying no taxes & now you want to sue him.

Since he does not use a bank & works off the books the only asset he seems to have is the car.

It's nice to want to help a struggling family but business decisions should never be based on emotion.

[TLS]

Tommy

Ask for a pay stub Or ask the restaurant owner if he got a ss # on them. You need to talk to your state people on renting to a person with out a ss#

Business owner was at the rental house and said that he helped them get their current apartment, and cant say enough good about them. He is a local upstanding business owner that has lived in the area for many years.

They more than likely get paid cash from the restaurant ($800 each/wk).

Rest owner told me about their last car and how quick they paid it off and that they pay all their bills when they come in.

They are very polite... "yes sir" " no sir" type of guy.

My question is though.....

How do you have a baby in a hospital (I assume) when your an illegal?

How do you get a drivers license when your an illegal?

How do you get a car load (two) when your an illegal?

How do you obtain vehicle insurance when your an illegal?


And lastly, lets assume they ARE illegally here in the US..... Am I at fault as a landlord for having them as my tenant?

What if I didn't require a SS# to screen my tenants. How would I know?

[TLS]

Question is would you rent to any other person without a SS# regardless of there white,black, indian etc?

I just have a good vibe/feeling about them. This is my reason for asking. I consider myself a decent judge of character and was curious of the ramifications.

[carcrz]

They use other people's identities. Usually a friend that is already legal. There have been a lot of business' getting in trouble for this the last couple of years. Automobiles are usually brought over the border or don't have legal tags on them. In most cases I have come across, they are using another identity to get everything "legit". Cash is the easiest way for them to get around most of the laws & regulations because in essence, they don't exist.

Something I just thought of, but you can see if they can get the business owner co-sign for them. That way if something goes wrong you can get your money out of him.

[newz7151]

Something I just thought of, but you can see if they can get the business owner co-sign for them. That way if something goes wrong you can get your money out of him.

Or rent it out to the bus. owner and he can sub lease it to them if he wants.

[carcrz]

That'd work! Then it's his problem if he gets caught or gets in trouble.

[ED'S LAWNCARE]

O.K. You do not need a S.S. to rent an apartment, nor do you have to require one to rent to a person. If you are worried about collecting if someone runs out on you hold a large security deposit. Now here is where the tricky part of the law comes in you can get into trouble if you "know" they are illegal and still rent to them, especially if they have done anything criminal.

Realistically it's a moral issue if you suspect they are an illegal. If they came up with $1000.00 security deposit and pay their rent on time every month it still would not make it right for the honest hardworking "AMERICANS".

[TLS]

They would already be coming to the table with First, last, and security ($4500) up front.

[Runner]

You ask the questions:
How do you have a baby in a hospital (I assume) when your an illegal?

How do you get a drivers license when your an illegal?

How do you get a car load (two) when your an illegal?

How do you obtain vehicle insurance when your an illegal?

The answer is quite simple...You DON'T! You are being b.s.'d and bamboozled. This is being done by them AND the restaurant owner. He is going to say anything a leaser wants to hear, because he (owner) does NOT want these guys to go away. He will be losing two good, experienced workers. This is NOT to say that they won't leave YOU standing. $1000 deposit? So what! By the time they run behind, you do the legal eviction, they get the extension on it, that money will be ate up and you will be left with a MESS...with no way to recoup. Question: If they have been in this country for THAT long, why haven't they applied for citizenship??? They are buying new cars.....? That is bull, and this story REEKS of trouble. If this "restaurant owner" is so willing to speak up for these guys, and says they are such "stand up citizens", then let HIM rent the property...See what he says to THAT. I bet they suddenly won't be such "stand up" citizens that he is willing to go out on a limb for them. Things wold turn,...and very fast. Don't be taken in by charm and salesmanship,....and don't let them play the sympathy card on you, either. Baby in hospital? Ask what hospital....It just doesn't happen. If they did that, INS would automatically be called...no ifs ands or buts about it. If the don't have SS#'s, then they would be asked for active visas. Also, talk to the old landlord...and make sure it's the old landlord you are speaking to...not just some friend of theirs, or a fellow co-worker pretending to be the landlord. Like I say, you are being scammed.

[TLS]

Like I say, you are being scammed.

Thats just it. I'm confident thats NOT the case.

You should see the train-wrecks of a life that ARE coming through with applications to us. It would make your head spin. These people KNOW we are pulling their credit....Bankruptcy, previous evictions, fraud alerts, credit cards 120+ days late. It would make your head spin.

It's amazing how screwed up peoples lives are and yet they still seem to function day to day.


My big question is though....is it possible to be here in the USA LEGALLY and NOT have a SS#?

What about the HB2 or H2B or whatever it is? Do they have SS#'s?

[GreenN'Clean]

Why would you even consider renting to an illegal in the first place? Who cares if they have a security deposit and willing to pay you for a year in advance. It still doesn't make it right!! You said they make $800 a week cash money x 2 = $1600 a week they aren't paying taxes on. They come here cause people are willing to rent to them knowing there illegal they don't pay taxes, nor insurance nor put there money back into our economy. Check into just how much money illegals make here and send back home to Mexico. It's in the upper 20 Billion dollars. Not that many Americans even come close to $800 a week and thats cause they have to pay insurance,taxes,etc and with people allowing these illegals to stay here work and not pay taxes and live off the ones that do pay taxes then American people are the ones going to suffer for it.

[TLS]

Why would you even consider renting to an illegal in the first place? Who cares if they have a security deposit and willing to pay you for a year in advance. It still doesn't make it right!! You said they make $800 a week cash money x 2 = $1600 a week they aren't paying taxes on. They come here cause people are willing to rent to them knowing there illegal they don't pay taxes, nor insurance nor put there money back into our economy. Check into just how much money illegals make here and send back home to Mexico. It's in the upper 20 Billion dollars. Not that many Americans even come close to $800 a week and thats cause they have to pay insurance,taxes,etc and with people allowing these illegals to stay here work and not pay taxes and live off the ones that do pay taxes then American people are the ones going to suffer for it.

Because when I see the train-wrecks of a life out there mooching off our system (welfare, social security, disability, section 8, food stamps, bankruptcy), and then I see a couple that for some reason, is unable to obtain citizenship, but works hard, saves money, pays his bills, and is generally a decent polite person....

Catch my drift?

Which would you choose?

Oh, non smoking and no pets as well. :dancing:

[GreenN'Clean]

They have been here for 7 years, the reason they cant get a citizen ship is because they don't want one. Then they will have to pay taxes and insurance like all of us do. And most of those people trying to milk the system with bankrupts,welfare,etc is because there drove into poverty for paying the price for all the illegals here. Do you know who pays for illegals medical bills? Answer is all of us legal citizens paying taxes. Do some research and see how much we Americans spend each year to take care of the illegals that are here.

[newz7151]

If you just want this problem to go away, make an anon call to the INS to report suspicious activity. When they get deported, then the problem is gone.

[TJLANDS]

I say let them rent it.

Odds are They will give you far, far, far less problems than anybody else.
You do not need a SS # to rent or get insurance, wonder why?

Most likely they will be neater, more caring and easier renters.

Believe me I have rented to some people that I would be ashamed to call
US citizens. And they were.

[GreenN'Clean]

Well everyone i know thats went to apply for a loan or rent a house had to show there I.D'S and provide SS# to show they were a citizen and to check there credit scores. An illegal can't have a credit score or ss# to check if there here illegally. And if they were an American citizen then they would have to pay taxes and health insurance and then they wouldn't have as much money to send back home to Mexico and none of them what that. I think the people that break the law by renting to an illegal should be held liable for housing a law breaker. It's funny how people will look at a drug dealer, a thief, rapist etc and Immediatley see them as law breakers but they see an illegal and they turn there backs, when every sec an illegal is in OUR country illegally there breaking the law.

[topsites]

You do not need to be a citizen to have a ssn.
They may be citizens, they may not be, it makes no difference here.

You do, however, need a ssn in order to be legitimately employed.

Look: Social Security number
Meaning: Employment Taxes!

Someone who isn't paying their income taxes, you want to rent to them?
And, their boss, who apparently pays them under the table, you believe what that guy tells you?
Most likely they have an NC credit rating.

[GreenN'Clean]

Well illegals are working every single day here in America without SS#'s and not paying taxes

[T.E.]

My big question is though....is it possible to be here in the USA LEGALLY and NOT have a SS#?


Yes. I believe the Amish people don't have a ssn. At least some I know don't.

[TJLANDS]

funny how people will look at a drug dealer, a thief, rapist etc and Immediatley see them as law breakers but they see an illegal and they turn there backs, when every sec an illegal is in OUR country illegally there breaking the law.
Who would you rather rent to.

[GreenN'Clean]

None of the Above. I would do a back ground check and find the best candidate, why help break the laws anymore then people already do. You don't see a bank giving out loans to people who don't have good credit, or people allow them to rent if you have poor credit, so why rent to an illegal for any reason

[mojob]

It sounds like you've already made your mind up, so why are you wasting are time asking us. You've already heard from several of us not to rent to them and you're still arguing your point. Go ahead and do the wrong thing. It's people like you, people that stand to make a buck on illegals, that are fostering this problem.

[HOOLIE]

If they are here legally and working they should have a SSN. If they are here illegally of course that would explain the absense of a SSN :rolleyes:

Not sure with the H2B program...but don't those guys have to leave the country for a certain amount of time each year??? So who would pay the rent then? :laugh:

[Runner]

I can read the thread already..."Man, I should've listened to you guys!":hammerhead:

[TJLANDS]

Personally I think this is a larger issue than most of you realize.
I could be wrong but,

FACT
It is easier for someone from Afghanistan, Iraq, India or Iran to come to the US legally than someone from Central America.

Why is that?

All of the terrorists from 9/11 had SS #s

Someone mentioned bank loan...OK

Fact
It is easier for someone here two days legally from Bangladesh to get a 100k-500K loan from Bank of America than one of you born here Americans looking for a business loan to jumpstart your American Dream.
Why is that?

Where does all that money from the gas stations and convenience stores and the etc. etc. go. Back to those third world countries thats where.

These are the things that bother me the most. Much more than some Mexican family looking to rent.

I apologize for the venting.

[TLS]

It sounds like you've already made your mind up, so why are you wasting are time asking us. You've already heard from several of us not to rent to them and you're still arguing your point. Go ahead and do the wrong thing. It's people like you, people that stand to make a buck on illegals, that are fostering this problem.

Hey bud....You wasted YOUR time typing what you did, I didn't twist your arm and make you waste your time. At least others offered info.

*************************
To tell you the truth...I expected the total opposite from members here. I thought that there would be much more sympathy for illegal Mexicans here. After all, we as an industry are responsible for most of the illegal immigrant employment.

A couple things to point out, and for those that wish to ponder along, something to comment on.

Right now, like I said earlier, this family is our BEST prospect right now. I meet with two more prospects tomorrow. One of those two admitted his credit is in the crapper (just got out of a nasty divorce).

I agree with TJLANDS on this. And here is how I see it....

They are in a bind where they live now....Baby cries, tenant next door calls cops, they're busted. They need to move to a house where noise isnt a problem.

Say I do accept them....They pay what I want (First, last, & Security) and pay on time and are trouble free tenants. They don't want any problems. If I would EVER have to evict them and take them to court, they will be deported. To avoid ANY hassles, they turn into the best tenant ever.


I'm trying to learn here guys. And I thought with our industry employing a lot of Mexicans, that I would get some good suggestions here.

[carcrz]

If nothing else then - CASH TALKS!!! No bank accounts.

[sunray]

It's hard to get tough with people who are so different than the normal trash you run into these days.
I dealt on a daily bases with wet backs in texas and I don't mean that negitively, just that they still had water dripping off of them so to speak.
They worked hard, were polite took care of their family and didn't cause any trouble and the most important thing ----they paid cash.
But then the flip side is they are breaking the law and I have to pay taxes and all the other expenses of being a law abidding citizen requires.
So why shouldn't they, you know if I didn't have to pay taxes I might be able to have a better life also.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Several towns are passing laws that make it illegal for a landord to rent to a tenant who is in the US illegally. Pentalties include disallowing the landlord to collect rents within the city limits ever again. The programs are enforced...get this...by neighbors who call the city office to have a background check done on their hispanic neighbors.

This is sounding more and more like Nazi Germany.

So far, the courts have forbidden enforcement of these local laws until a hearing is complete.

That is the only danger I see with renting to a suspected illegal alien (btw, I hate that term). Will your town pass such a racist law or will they not? That is the question. If they don't, you can rent to them forever. If they do, you could really be screwed. Will the laws allow you to evict an otherwise perfectly good tenant because of their national origin?

Never before in US history have you had to prove your identity in order to purchase something as basic as housing. Sure, we've got laws about the sale of arms and guns and prescription meds, but for something as basic as housing??? I just don't know where this is headed.

I'm no Bible junkie, but that Revelations stuff about not being able to buy or sell without the mark is starting to come to life if you ask me. Check out this site: unrealid.com

Appearantly, it's already been signed into law that beginning in 2008 everyone in the US will be provided with a federal ID card and you won't be able to work without it. If true, it is only a matter of time until the banks no longer issue credit cards and instead you swipe your federal ID card to buy stuff. At least, that's what they're alleging on this website.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[HOOLIE]

DFW just wait until a bunch of them move in on your street and see how you feel then. That's what happened to me...you get a legal guy buying the house but he rents it out to 15 guys who will all have cars and double and triple-park on the street. Then you will say to yourself "What the hell happened???"

It's like in football, once the whistle blows, the play is dead. Once these guys cross the border illegally, the whistle has blown. While many of them are decent people, the whistle has blown and anything they do after the whistle doesn't count.

[John Gamba]

I bet there in the drug trade. go by the resturant and see if there working.

[grasswhacker]

I think you should not only turn them into the INS, but also the restaurant owner for hiring illegals (INS) and paying them under the table to the IRS.

[TLS]

I bet there in the drug trade. go by the resturant and see if there working.

No, it's a VERY busy Italian Rest/Pizza Shop. They have a lunch trade like you wouldn't believe.

I've been there many times. These guys are ALWAYS hustling, as the kitchen is right there in the open for all to see.

[TLS]

I think you should not only turn them into the INS, but also the restaurant owner for hiring illegals (INS) and paying them under the table to the IRS.

So I should just ignore the thousands of illegal immigrants that are working in DIRECT competition to my Lawn Service, and simply go report a decent hard working family and local business owner :confused: :rolleyes:

[carcrz]

Turn 'em all in! Actually, turn in the employer so he gets fined big time. That way you also get rid of a competitor @ the same time. That'll fix the lowballing problem so many people keep talking about.

[John Gamba]

No, it's a VERY busy Italian Rest/Pizza Shop. They have a lunch trade like you wouldn't believe.

I've been there many times. These guys are ALWAYS hustling, as the kitchen is right there in the open for all to see.



Its up to you bud:)

[grasswhacker]

So I should just ignore the thousands of illegal immigrants that are working in DIRECT competition to my Lawn Service, and simply go report a decent hard working family and local business owner :confused: :rolleyes:

No
Yes
Yes

[GreenN'Clean]

Well TLS since our rotten US Government aren't trying to weed out the illegals it's up to us the American tax paying citizen to stand up for our country and show the government were not going to take it anymore!!! When people stand up for whats right then the government will have no choice but to listen to the American people. Its the people who turn there back to hire the illegals rent to them and help break OUR laws and profit from them that don't see anything wrong with illegals. I for one am tired of paying for these people to be here. All the other immigrants that came to this country are here legally, so if the Mexicans want to come here then they need to be legal as well and pay taxes like the rest of us or get the hell out of here cause we don't want you here living off of us!!!!!

[mojob]

Hey TLS, you're a funny guy! In one breath you complain about illegals competeing with you and another breath explaining why you should rent to some of them. You, like many people, are so short-sighted on this immigration problem. You're in a bind with your rental property, so in your mind, you should look away this one time and let all of us tax payers to deal with your tenants should they need any social services. As long as you come out ahead it's ok, right? A little self-centered, don't you think? It sounds like you own property in a run down part of town. Ask yourself, how did this neighborhood get run down in the first place? It's slumlords that do it. They buy a house with the idea of renting it out. They have trouble renting it and the mortgage is due and the next thing you know they're renting to anyone who can pay the rent. They turn a blind eye to any illegal activity that might be going on, they overlook the two broken-down cars in the driveway and the five cars that now have to park on the street. As long as the mortgage is getting paid, who cares. Do your neighbors that live and own their house in that neighborhood a favor, and fix up the neighborhood. It starts with your house. Next, find out who owns their house and talk to them about organizing a neighborhood watch program. Ask for the city's help. Get code enforcement involved. They can turn a neighborhood around. I watched a neighborhood do it down in Forida. A few concerned homeowners turned a crimeridden slum into a neighborhood where the average sale price in now in the upper $400K. There, now you can't say I didn't offer any constructive input.

[mojob]

Hey TLS, I just noticed that you've been solo since 1980. Do you realize that a solo operation stands to lose more from illegals than anyone else. Think about it. They get their act together enough to put together a lawn biz. The next thing you know they're way underbidding everyone else because they can. They do great work as well. So, ask yourself, why would a customer pay you twice what they would pay illegals for service that's not quite as good. Do you think you can do as much work in a half hour by yourself as six mexicans. There won't be a blade of grass out of place when they're done. You can't compete with that. Bottom line, customers don't care who does the work as long as it's done well and at a great price. Have you noticed there aren't a lot of guys on Lawnsite from So. California. Not sure, but I think I know why. Just some food for thought.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

The solution is right in front of your face...if you suspect a business is using "illegal" laborors, don't buy from them. If you are really concerened about it, find the owner and tell him/her that's why you aren't their client anymore. It is that simple. Small business will respond to lower sales faster than anything else.

The dollars you spend carry a lot more weight than your vote.

There is not a small business owner who doesn't pick up the paper or flip on the TV or read the internet and, from what you see and read, it seems that 100% of the population wants the illegals gone...yesterday. They are hated.

Yet, these small business owners are not doing what they know their customers want. Why would they? Sales are fine.

There are small businesses in my area, thriving, and anyone with a shred of common sense can tell you these small businesses are employing undocumented workers. Yet, the very same people who complain and whine about "illegals" must be standing in line to spend their money at these establishments because they are not going out of business. Sure, a small percentage of the population might not care about illegal immigration one way or the other. But the masses clearly hate the illegals and yet, they continue to stand in line to hand their money over to their employers.

The americans hate the illegals and want big brother to make them go away. But if making them go away means boycotting the local Wendy's...no more Big Macs...no more Taco Bell...no more Chilis...no more car washes...no more cheap tire places...well, that is just asking too much.

But gosh darn it, throw their employers in jail!!!

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[mojob]

The solution is right in front of your face...if you suspect a business is using "illegal" laborors, don't buy from them. If you are really concerened about it, find the owner and tell him/her that's why you aren't their client anymore. It is that simple. Small business will respond to lower sales faster than anything else.

The dollars you spend carry a lot more weight than your vote.

There is not a small business owner who doesn't pick up the paper or flip on the TV or read the internet and, from what you see and read, it seems that 100% of the population wants the illegals gone...yesterday. They are hated.

Yet, these small business owners are not doing what they know their customers want. Why would they? Sales are fine.

There are small businesses in my area, thriving, and anyone with a shred of common sense can tell you these small businesses are employing undocumented workers. Yet, the very same people who complain and whine about "illegals" must be standing in line to spend their money at these establishments because they are not going out of business. Sure, a small percentage of the population might not care about illegal immigration one way or the other. But the masses clearly hate the illegals and yet, they continue to stand in line to hand their money over to their employers.

The americans hate the illegals and want big brother to make them go away. But if making them go away means boycotting the local Wendy's...no more Big Macs...no more Taco Bell...no more Chilis...no more car washes...no more cheap tire places...well, that is just asking too much.

But gosh darn it, throw their employers in jail!!!

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper
How does the average consumer know if the guy in the kitchen is legal or not? That's where the government needs to come in. If all the illegals suddenly weren't here, employers would have to find employees to take their place. Wages would go up and again these jobs would be appealing to those types of employees. Who used to do these jobs that nobody else wants to do? This country didn't have to rely on an illegal workforce 30-40 years ago. We, as tax payers, will have to take a proactive role in this problem. We need to report employers that we suspect to our government and see to it that our government does their job.

[TLS]

Hey TLS, you're a funny guy! In one breath you complain about illegals competeing with you and another breath explaining why you should rent to some of them. You, like many people, are so short-sighted on this immigration problem. You're in a bind with your rental property, so in your mind, you should look away this one time and let all of us tax payers to deal with your tenants should they need any social services. As long as you come out ahead it's ok, right? A little self-centered, don't you think? It sounds like you own property in a run down part of town. Ask yourself, how did this neighborhood get run down in the first place? It's slumlords that do it. They buy a house with the idea of renting it out. They have trouble renting it and the mortgage is due and the next thing you know they're renting to anyone who can pay the rent. They turn a blind eye to any illegal activity that might be going on, they overlook the two broken-down cars in the driveway and the five cars that now have to park on the street. As long as the mortgage is getting paid, who cares. Do your neighbors that live and own their house in that neighborhood a favor, and fix up the neighborhood. It starts with your house. Next, find out who owns their house and talk to them about organizing a neighborhood watch program. Ask for the city's help. Get code enforcement involved. They can turn a neighborhood around. I watched a neighborhood do it down in Forida. A few concerned homeowners turned a crimeridden slum into a neighborhood where the average sale price in now in the upper $400K. There, now you can't say I didn't offer any constructive input.


:hammerhead: Where do I start.....How about dropping some of the attitudes guys. Especially you newbies. :rolleyes:

First: I do not have a competition problem with my business. Furthermore, I am in no way loosing, or in danger of loosing work due to illegal immigrants.

Second: We are NOT in a bind with the rental property. The house has been sitting empty over a year now, and we just put it up for rent 3 weeks ago.

Third: This house is NOT run-down or in a run-down part of town. This is a beautiful 3BR home which we are asking a premium price of $1500/mo. So, drop the "slum" comments.



This is an off-topic thread that I started to get opinions and facts from what I thought would have been a more diverse group of individuals. Many of you are coming off as "goodie two shoes" and "Bible bangers". If I wanted that advice, I would have stuck to getting opinions from elder church goers. With the majority of LCO's hiring Mexican immigrants, I figured what better place to ask about this subject there here on this forum. I'm not saying I WILL rent to them, but as it stands right now, the other prospects look MUCH worse. And for my Wife and I to even consider renting to a family that may or may not be legal US Citizens shows you just how bad the other canidates really are.


They are also NOT going to be using any social services. They get caught so much as a speeding ticket, they're packing they're bags back to Mexico.

Sure, they're not contributing to the government via taxes, and no they're not contributing to Social Security. But they will NOT be collecting it either.


If it sounds like I have a nasty tone to my voice, it's because of some your comments, and the tone they portray. You guys are acting like I'm contemplating harboring a death-row fugitive.

[Branching Out]

Personally I think this is a larger issue than most of you realize.
I could be wrong but,

FACT
It is easier for someone from Afghanistan, Iraq, India or Iran to come to the US legally than someone from Central America.

Why is that?

All of the terrorists from 9/11 had SS #s

Someone mentioned bank loan...OK

Fact
It is easier for someone here two days legally from Bangladesh to get a 100k-500K loan from Bank of America than one of you born here Americans looking for a business loan to jumpstart your American Dream.
Why is that?

Where does all that money from the gas stations and convenience stores and the etc. etc. go. Back to those third world countries thats where.

These are the things that bother me the most. Much more than some Mexican family looking to rent.

I apologize for the venting.

This is sooo true. And that's not to mention all the illegal Asians in the country. I would bet it's safe to say that they out number all the Mexicans. It's just that they're all behind the scenes in restaurants and nail shops where everyone turns a blind eye. Walk into a nail salon and yell INS and see what happens. So, why is it only a "Mexican issue"? It's not. It's just that they are the only ones standing on the corner looking for work. They aren't hiding behind a nail stand where one family member is the front person for the "legit" business.

If you want to put up a wall on the border, who is going to build it? Mexicans. I guarantee it.......

[mojob]

Alright, here's an attitude-free post or at least try my best since illegal immigration pushes my hot button. You mentioned the fact that they are competing with you before anyone else did. If you don't think they will be a problem for you in the future, then you're just not looking far enough down the road. None of us are! As far as your rental goes, relax it's only been three weeks. A good American, law abiding family will come along sooner or later. As for them not using any social services...how do you know this for a fact. Who's going to pay their medical bills if they get seriously hurt or sick? We don't throw people out of the hospital if they can't pay their bills like they do in Mexico. Who is going to pay the bill for having them deported or worse, put them up in a cozy prison for the rest of their lives if they do something seriously wrong? I might be a "newbie" to this website, but I've been around the block a couple of times. I think most people on this site are small businesses that don't hire anyone much less illegal aliens. We have everything to lose and nothing to gain from illegal immigration. Nothing will get people fired up quicker than reaching into their pockets to pay for someone who shouldn't be here in the first place. In my opinion you came to the wrong place looking for support. Renting to them, would be renting to fugitives from the law, death row or not.

[mojob]

This is sooo true. And that's not to mention all the illegal Asians in the country. I would bet it's safe to say that they out number all the Mexicans. It's just that they're all behind the scenes in restaurants and nail shops where everyone turns a blind eye. Walk into a nail salon and yell INS and see what happens. So, why is it only a "Mexican issue"? It's not. It's just that they are the only ones standing on the corner looking for work. They aren't hiding behind a nail stand where one family member is the front person for the "legit" business.

If you want to put up a wall on the border, who is going to build it? Mexicans. I guarantee it.......
If what you're saying were true, I'd be using a magnifying glass to read the instructions on a English/Asian pill bottle instead of a English/Spanish pill bottle. Seriously, when's it going to end? They feel compelled to put two different sets of instructions on a 1 square inch piece of paper just to be politically correct. I don't think the Asians are a problem just yet. But now that we're paying closer attention to our ports, I don't think they will ever be a problem. Now we need to tighten up our inland borders.

[HOOLIE]

Just stick it out and wait for someone better to come along. I realize your intentions are good but like I said before my old 'hood went down the tubes once illegals started moving in (and yes many of them told me they were illegal) Not always a crime problem but you put a bunch of single men together and you get a ton of cars, lots of empty beer bottles and an endless parade of tricked-out Honda Civics coming and going. Sucks to be the neighbor.

And...not really easy to deport someone. If they are convicted of a gang-related crime they risk deportation but nickel and dime stuff like traffic tickets mean nothing. Local police generally do not have any authority to enforce federal laws. And sadly not worth their effort to get the Feds involved.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

++++How does the average consumer know if the guy in the kitchen is legal or not? That's where the government needs to come in.++++

Look, you don't have to be a friggin brain surgeon to figure out that if the guy flipping burgers at the burger joint is struggling with english and looks hispanic...what are the odds??? This is the guy you hate. This is the employer that you hate. Boycott them. Don't give them your money.

I mean, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

Your suspiscions about a worker's legality are just as founded as are the employer's. We all know fake social security cards are a dime a dozen. There's not an employer anywhere who doesn't have strong suspicions about whether his workers are legal or not. Same holds true for their customers unless we are talking about manufacturing or food processing or something like that where the workers are out of sight.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[GreenN'Clean]

How many of you are tired of hearing all the spanish crap on a message when you call for phone bill,electric,cell phone etc,, the first thing they say to hear in espanol' press 1 or english press 2. Well this is America and our language is English and if people come here they should learn ENGLISH!!! I don't see other countries putting english before there own language for Americans that come there, you either speak there language or you better learn how to quick or your sh!t outta luck

[HOOLIE]

How many of you are tired of hearing all the spanish crap on a message when you call for phone bill,electric,cell phone etc,, the first thing they say to hear in espanol' press 1 or english press 2. Well this is America and our language is English and if people come here they should learn ENGLISH!!! I don't see other countries putting english before there own language for Americans that come there, you either speak there language or you better learn how to quick or your sh!t outta luck

Actually English is understood in many many other countries. And a lot of signage in those countries is bilingual with English as the second language.

English is sort of the 'official' second language for most non-English speaking cultures.

[GreenN'Clean]

Well when i went to France they wasn't using english it was all french and i didn't see any of them trying to speak spanish to help me. I was with friends who spoke french or i would have been sh!t outta luck. They have been trying to make it mandatory for American kids to learn spanish in school which i think is bull crap. People who come to our country should learn our language. They should adapt to our language not us adapt to there's in OUR country.

[Evan528]

They can give you Sec deposit, first and last months rent cash? I would rent them the house no question. They will most likely be the best tennants you could ask for. They have not a drop of debt and probly pay there bills early every month. Easy answer if you ask me. I would have no hesitation renting the house to them. We as the general public do not have the responsibility of stopping illeagal aliens. Leave that to the INS and rent out the freakin house!

[GreenN'Clean]

Yes we do have the right for stopping illegals. If there here illegally breaking laws then we have the right to stand up for it. They have the cash and sec deposit because they don't have to pay taxes and such. I know alot of people who would have a better life earning $800 a week cash money and getting free health care and not paying taxes, Hell Id be one of them!! The INS isn't doing there job on weeding out the illegals so its up to us law abiding legal citizens to do the job. If people would start boycotting Businesses that employee illegals we would see a big drop in illegals coming to our country

[HOOLIE]

Well when i went to France they wasn't using english it was all french and i didn't see any of them trying to speak spanish to help me. I was with friends who spoke french or i would have been sh!t outta luck. They have been trying to make it mandatory for American kids to learn spanish in school which i think is bull crap. People who come to our country should learn our language. They should adapt to our language not us adapt to there's in OUR country.

Doesn't surprise me, the French are very snooty :laugh: Well that's just one country, you'll find English all over the place. I had no trouble understanding the locals in both Canada and England :dancing:

But I don't disagree with you at all, the proliferation of Spanish here really does a disservice to the Hispanics, keeps them from having to learn English and integrate into American society.

[mojob]

They can give you Sec deposit, first and last months rent cash? I would rent them the house no question. They will most likely be the best tennants you could ask for. They have not a drop of debt and probly pay there bills early every month. Easy answer if you ask me. I would have no hesitation renting the house to them. We as the general public do not have the responsibility of stopping illeagal aliens. Leave that to the INS and rent out the freakin house!
Look the other way. That's the spirit! Scotty, beam me up....hurry!

[MarkintheGarden]

TLS DFW gave you your answer, if there are laws in your community regarding rentals and IA's then do what you have to do to abide by them.

Otherwise go with your gut feeling. Maybe mojob wants you to play gov. agent, but I understand that you want good clean people who will take care of your property and pay on time. If these people look like what you are looking for rent them the property.

Did you say if you know for sure they are Ilegal?

Laws regarding employment and rental agreements are different and people here are talking about this as if we were discussing an employment issue.

It is not every citizens job to enforce immigration laws, it is the governments and mojob's job to keep em out and both of them are doing a lousy job.

[Evan528]

Mojob.... Yep I do look the other way when it comes to Illeagal mexican immigrants. Most of them are hard working, respectful family men who are only trying to make a better life for their wife and kids. Id much rather see some of our lazy, rude, intentionally uneducated sounding americans booted out of our country!
This is what I have been told first hand by one of my mexican employees (yes leagal as far as I can tell). Most mexicans come to this country illeagally because its nearly impossible to get here leagally. He said for a visa you have to go on a long waiting list...fork out thousands of dollars and probobly never even get selected. Most want to be here leagally.... but we have made it almost impossible for them to do so.

Something needs to change in our immigration laws. They will never stop coming here illeagally so we might as well give them SS#'s and let them contribute to our country as so many would like too do!

Sorry to get so off topic here but I feel very strongly about this issue. This country has so many issues and i feel Illeagal mexicans are the least of our concern. If tomorrow every illeagal mexican was rounded up and deported it would be catastrophic to our country.....many businesses would go under.... would probobly be no produce and the food stores and inflation would go off the charts do to more open jobs then we could possibly know what to do with. Americans would start demanding 40 dollars and hour to run a ZTR.... that would get passed to the customer... they would need to make more from there employer etc etc etc. This whole problem is not nearly as cut and dry and some of you make it out to be.

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Evan528,

I agree with you. If the anti-immigration folks had their way, we'd all be out of work because, as GW stated in the State Of The Union Address, our economy is dependent on foreign labor.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061208/us_nm/texas_illegalimmigrants_economy_dc

"The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion," said Texas Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[TJLANDS]

Mojob.... Yep I do look the other way when it comes to Illegal mexican immigrants. Most of them are hard working, respectful family men who are only trying to make a better life for their wife and kids. Id much rather see some of our lazy, rude, intentionally uneducated sounding Americans booted out of our country!
This is what I have been told first hand by one of my mexican employees (yes leagal as far as I can tell). Most mexicans come to this country illeagally because its nearly impossible to get here leagally. He said for a visa you have to go on a long waiting list...fork out thousands of dollars and probably never even get selected. Most want to be here leagally.... but we have made it almost impossible for them to do so.

Something needs to change in our immigration laws. They will never stop coming here illegally so we might as well give them SS#'s and let them contribute to our country as so many would like too do!

Sorry to get so off topic here but I feel very strongly about this issue. This country has so many issues and i feel Illegal Mexicans are the least of our concern. If tomorrow every illegal Mexican was rounded up and deported it would be catastrophic to our country.....many businesses would go under.... would probably be no produce and the food stores and inflation would go off the charts do to more open jobs then we could possibly know what to do with. Americans would start demanding 40 dollars and hour to run a ZTR.... that would get passed to the customer... they would need to make more from there employer etc etc etc. This whole problem is not nearly as cut and dry and some of you make it out to be.

I am on Evans side.
I have a guy here on the H2 crap program that dreams of becoming a citizen but he cant. He has a better attitude toward the USA than most of the guys on this site. He owns and has nothing in Mexico so they will not let him come to America for good, only 9 months and come home and bring your money.
He is forced to work here to support his kids and family at home. How many of you guys would leave your family for 9 months a year to support them.

I personally have hired and fired probably 100 Americans, all but a few, count them on one hand, were any good. It is total opposite for anyone from central America or even Russia.
And its not the money. Just March I hired an American at 40K salary to start. he had come to me from Tru- Green Land Care. He took off 5 of the first 20 days he worked and was late another 5. Hired another to replace him
another worthless POS. I would have ten crews working if I could find the help. The work is there.

[mojob]

Boy, this is a pretty shallow think tank. I'm guessing most of you are pretty young and weren't around thirty or forty years ago, but believe it or not this country got along pretty well without the millions of illegal aliens that are "supporting" our economy these days. A company didn't have to pay a guy $80/hr to run a mower and an employer could find good American workers to show up for work. The people that want illegals here are the people that benefit directly from them such as employers and landlords. The benefits for them far out-way the increase in taxes that are needed to take care of all these people. The rest of us just pay more in taxes and get nothing in return. Now, to be truly benevolent as some of you seem to be, are you willing to welcome the rest of the world with open arms to come to this country and make a life for themselves. If not, then you're a hypocrite. So where do you draw the line? If you're one of those employers/landlords, enjoy it while you can. It's coming to an end because the rest of us are tired of footing the bill.

[J&R Landscaping]

I would go to the resturant where they work. Better yet, get a friend or neighboor to go and ask other employees of the resturant about these 2 people.

You have your initial feeling but anyone can bring a boss into a situation to lie. Considering how you cant investigate them much else, this might be your only option.

I take it they paid cash for both their cars because whose going to give them a car loan?????

[TLS]

MarkintheGarden,

No I don't know for SURE their status. Hence the reason for my initial post question. It was the "goodie-two-shoes" and "Bible Bangers" that immediately assumed and told me they've GOT to be Illegal.

Yes, I would assume they get paid cash. There is NOTHING wrong with this practice, and being a mainly cash business, it's an easier way for the owner to limit his "cash on hand" prior to doing a banking.

Thanks Evan528 and TJLANDS for your comments. We may be the minority here, but in "real" life, not everyone gets as bent outa shape as some of the others here.

They are NOT on welfare, and NOT utilizing this country for medical insurance. They seem to NOT have a problem with cash on hand, so they are savers and from what I observed, very diligent with paying bills/rent/etc.

I do have ways to check up on them. If we DO decide to go with them, I will contact their landlord and their neighbors (they currently live right behind our rental house). As for checking up on them at work....I do have several ways of going about this.

As for the car loan part....They're boss was saying that they had a loan for their previous car and paid it off 3 years early. Who's name the loan was in I don't know.

I probably missed a few comments, I don't know.


Note: We have NOT made up our mind yet. What happens in the next week as far as new prospects go, will likely determine our decision. I'm sick and tired of running credit checks and coming up with literal trash!

[GreenN'Clean]

Do you know how many Americans could have a car paid off in 3 years if they worked a job getting paid in cash and got free health care? It would be a Hellava lot. You know deep inside these people are illegal and who cares if there good people there still here illegally!!! How many of you would like to be able to break the LAW and get away with it? I now know of several townships that are taking steps to weed out the illegals and to go after Businesses and Landlords that rent to these illegals and i applaud them. It's about time Americans start standing up for Our country since the American Government isn't.

[RedMax Man]

Do you know how many Americans could have a car paid off in 3 years if they worked a job getting paid in cash and got free health care? It would be a Hellava lot. You know deep inside these people are illegal and who cares if there good people there still here illegally!!! How many of you would like to be able to break the LAW and get away with it? I now know of several townships that are taking steps to weed out the illegals and to go after Businesses and Landlords that rent to these illegals and i applaud them. It's about time Americans start standing up for Our country since the American Government isn't.

Very Well Said.:clapping:

[MarkintheGarden]

MarkintheGarden,

No I don't know for SURE their status. Hence the reason for my initial post question. It was the "goodie-two-shoes" and "Bible Bangers" that immediately assumed and told me they've GOT to be Illegal.

Yes, I would assume they get paid cash. There is NOTHING wrong with this practice, and being a mainly cash business, it's an easier way for the owner to limit his "cash on hand" prior to doing a banking.

Thanks Evan528 and TJLANDS for your comments. We may be the minority here, but in "real" life, not everyone gets as bent outa shape as some of the others here.

They are NOT on welfare, and NOT utilizing this country for medical insurance. They seem to NOT have a problem with cash on hand, so they are savers and from what I observed, very diligent with paying bills/rent/etc.

I do have ways to check up on them. If we DO decide to go with them, I will contact their landlord and their neighbors (they currently live right behind our rental house). As for checking up on them at work....I do have several ways of going about this.

As for the car loan part....They're boss was saying that they had a loan for their previous car and paid it off 3 years early. Who's name the loan was in I don't know.

I probably missed a few comments, I don't know.


Note: We have NOT made up our mind yet. What happens in the next week as far as new prospects go, will likely determine our decision. I'm sick and tired of running credit checks and coming up with literal trash!


I think that Mojob and GreenN'Clean and Redmax Man are in this country illegally, or at least I think that there is the same amount of evidence that those three people are illegal aliens, as there is evidence that these prospective tenants are illegal.

The truth of the matter is that some people want to go on witch hunts, and without any proof or even a reason to be concerned about it they want to label these people as illegal. They do not know these people and have no idea who these people are but want to label them and condemn them as a burden on our society, that is the very definition of WITCH HUNTING.

TLS, you should not have posted your question here. As I said before, many are talking about this as if it were an employment issue. Secondly, why would you ask a group of contractors about rental and lease issues, it is obviously outside of the participants area of expertise, and falls directly (in many cases) under the category of the participants prejudices. How many more prejudiced comments and responses written by people who have no experience in the area do you care to read?

[LawnBrother]

No SS# = they are illegals. Do not rent to them. :hammerhead:

[GreenN'Clean]

Mark i think they you probably have a few illegals working for you and you don't see a problem with illegals. I for one haven't and never will hire any illegal to work for me. And i am legal and have a SS # and i pay taxes unlike any illegal does. The only people i see that don't have a problem with illegals are the ones that PROFIT off of them. And i do have experience in renting out properties and i wouldn't rent out to anyone that was illegal because it's not fair to the Hard Working American people to keep paying for these illegals to be here!!!!! And TLS said they didn't have a SS# and that they were working getting paid cash. It doesn't take a damn rocket scientist to know the people are here working illegally and are not a American citizen.

[mojob]

I think that Mojob and GreenN'Clean and Redmax Man are in this country illegally, or at least I think that there is the same amount of evidence that those three people are illegal aliens, as there is evidence that these prospective tenants are illegal.

The truth of the matter is that some people want to go on witch hunts, and without any proof or even a reason to be concerned about it they want to label these people as illegal. They do not know these people and have no idea who these people are but want to label them and condemn them as a burden on our society, that is the very definition of WITCH HUNTING.

TLS, you should not have posted your question here. As I said before, many are talking about this as if it were an employment issue. Secondly, why would you ask a group of contractors about rental and lease issues, it is obviously outside of the participants area of expertise, and falls directly (in many cases) under the category of the participants prejudices. How many more prejudiced comments and responses written by people who have no experience in the area do you care to read?
I'm going by what TLS has said about them in his posts. "If someone complains about their baby crying, they're busted" What did he mean by "busted". He knows better than we do on their status. His original post asked us for our opinions on this matter and I've given mine. In my opinion, he's already made up his mind to rent to them and he's here looking for our blessing. Well, he's not getting it from me. Markinthegarden, let me give you a little history on me and you can come up with your own conclusion. I was born in Mexico to white, american parents. They were living down there while they helped my aunt with her hotel and art school. My aunt married a mexican and they had kids and they had kids and so on. I now have many mexican relatives that live and work in mexico and do very well for themselves. I love and respect all of them so don't try to make me out to be some racist out on a witch hunt. I feel the same way about white canadians that are here illegally. BTW, this isn't a witchhunt that this nation is on. It's a nation that's looking for people that broke the law when they snuck across the border. Do you call a prostitution sting a witchhunt as well?

[MarkintheGarden]

There is an issue regarding Illegal aliens and yes it is problematical.
I do not care much about the issue and the associated costs and problems and I certainly do not profit or otherwise involve my self. I have and never will hire an illegal alien.

Mojob, I am glad that you are not a racist or witch hunter. I do not think that a prostitute sting is a witch hunt if it is conducted by ethical law enforcement agencies. I do think that prosecution of victimless crime is a waste of time and resource.

Green and Clean, First, OK you do have some experience managing rental property. I get your point it is easy to assume given what has been said, but still it is assumption, and as long as we are still just assuming then I must apply the assumption of innocent! And why bother assuming what do you or I care? OK you care about this, and I respect your opinions. I do not care much, and it is not because I profit, it is cause I just do not care if TLS, or anyone else wants to rent or hire AIs. Yes, I will compete with operators who do and this may or may not be fair, but I am not expecting life to all of a sudden be fair. I take comfort that my own crew is not in danger of being deported. So I think you are wrong to think the only people who do not care about this are those that profit, I think many people have no involvement and just do not care about the issue. Of the many people who do care, many are liberal in their concerns and want to make it easy for illegals to get legal, so they care and do not profit.

While we are on the subject, what is an employer or renter supposed to do?
Beyond collecting the identifications and information, how can we verify the information? Are we required to verify all the info and documentation that our employees provide?

[GreenN'Clean]

Well they are to respect the laws of OUR country, if someone can't show prove of legal income,provide a SS# then they shouldn't be allowed to rent to anyone. Mark do you think you could as an American go into a bank and get a loan if you don't show proof that your a legal citizen? Or rent a house without providing information or have a background check? Americans can't do any of these things without showing ID's and proof of SS# so why in the hell should an illegal be able to do it. Well let me tell you something, the illegals don't want to become legal because then they would have to pay taxes, pay for health insurance and they wouldn't be able to send as much back home to Mexico. TLS said the people have been here for 7 years and can't get citizenship and thats because they don't want to be a citizen. You can do background checks, and a few other things to see if someone is a legal citizen. Banks,DOT,Auto Dealers they do it everyday to see whose opening a bank account,to get a loan for a car etc... Well i care that illegals are here because im tired of my tax dollars being spent to support all the illegals that are here. Do some research and see how much is being spent on the health care of illegals that we Americans are paying for. It's coming out of our pockets to pay for the illegals when we have millions of American people that can't afford health care and our own damn government isn't helping. So its up to Americans to put a stop to it. Do you see any other country allowing illegals to work and live in there country and pay for them to have free health care? I am against all illegals being here, if they want to be here then they should be legal and pay the same taxes as all of legal citizens do.

[MarkintheGarden]

It is not like IAs are getting major medical care, rather we do not let them die when they show up at the er. Yes it costs a lot, and so do a thousand other things that tax our government spending and economy. What would be the cost of a full court press to get them out? :weightlifter:

It is true that the reason it is costly is because people look the other way for the benefit of cheap labor. But you are incorrect to think it is only in america. Europe, Asia, Middle East, it happens everywhere, people come from poorer countries to seek opportunity in a developed country legally and illegaly. And they do allow it by looking the other way, the way we do.

Security in Israel is extremely compromised all for want of cheap Palestinian labor.:hammerhead:

I guess you know some illegals who do not want to be legal? I guess the money senders are like that. I think most of them just want an American life. :usflag:

I do know how to do background checks, but I am just wondering what others actually do. I understand that as an employer you are required to obtain two IDs and a SS#. Some work requires a clean criminal record. I realy do not want to know my employees background, I want to know their future.:laugh:

[TLS]

It's my understanding that most Mexicans come here on a work Visa. It's good for however long. Thing is, they don't want to leave, the Visa expires, and they are instantly considered an Illegal.

If I'm wrong on this let me know, thats the way it was explained to me.

Getting paid cash is 100% legal. Also, not having a bank account is 100% legal. And as far as I know, you do not HAVE to have a SS# to live in the USA (Amish).


As far as health care. Keep that out of this. Mark is right. If they need to see a doctor, they pay for it. (at least this family) The only free care anyone ever gets is if they are admitted to the ER. They likley had this baby of theirs in their apartment.


And just so you guys don't get the wrong impression. We haven't made ANY decision yet. But as I said previously, the large pool of other prospects is MUCH worse, have pets, smoke, or want to put 6 people in this small house.

[Maitland Man]

:hammerhead:


All your other applicants gave you a s.s.#. :usflag: What did you use that number for? :confused: To verify, in writing from a third party, in front of your own two eyes,....their past!!! In writing, from an independant source! :clapping: That is the ultimate proof. What are you able to have in this form of proof? Any W-2's....any 1099 forms(makes cash be legal and accounted for.)....how about past landlords for a phone call reference(bet there's a spot for that on your application)........you have those things from people with a s.s.#. You are getting what these brothers display to you, at their discretion.:angel: ............:nono:

I think that you pretty much started this as a "would you?, could I?" thread. Can you do this knowing that it's an illegal family...well, yea! .....Should you? Nope! Being a landlord, it IS your responsibility and duty to make sure and VERIFY that they are US citizens. Like an employer......both landlords and employers PROFIT. Don't you want to make sure you are making LEGAL profits?

If you are going to just say "...the he!! with it, I need it rented to the best appearing people that I can find." Then do what was already suggested and rent to this guys "best proof"....his employer. Be sure to get some identification from him. Maybe he'll introduce you to , um his proof.




Dennis

[TLS]

To verify, in writing from a third party, in front of your own two eyes,....their past!!! In writing, from an independant source! :clapping: That is the ultimate proof. What are you able to have in this form of proof? Any W-2's....any 1099 forms(makes cash be legal and accounted for.)....how about past landlords for a phone call reference(bet there's a spot for that on your application)........you have those things from people with a s.s.#.

But like I said, the info I get back from the credit agency is crap.

You guys are saying I should rent to the following:

Bankruptcies
120+ day late on several CC's
Fraud Alert
Name Changes
Multiple debts sent to Collection Agencys
Previous evictions
Multiple address's that dont match application
Dogs
Cats
Smokers
Drinkers
And people who want to put 6 adults in a small 3BR Cape


But God forbid I even consider a stand-up guy who may or may not be a legal US Citizen.

[GreenN'Clean]

Well you need to do some research because California spent over 100 million on illegals alone this year on health care for illegals!!!! Illegals don't want to be legal citizens here they want to come here work illegally get paid in cash and get there free health care and send all there money back home to Mexico. They will come work here for 10-15 years then go back home to Mexico were they will retire and never have to work another day in there life. And you said it, illegals are here because scums that want to make a profit turn there heads, well I'm not going to turn my head on the issue if my family and I have to abide by the laws and pay taxes and pay for OUR health care and such and be legal then I'm going to do all i can to make sure people that come here illegally will do the same or get out because I'm not going to be supporting there azzes and every American should be doing the same because for every legal thats here You American citizens are paying for them to be here and thats a FACT!!!!!!!

[TLS]

Well you need to do some research

Hence the reason I posted here. Our industry is the #1 employer of Mexican-Americans. Figured someone would know the facts here and give me all possible scenarios.

[GreenN'Clean]

And we have answered your questions. If the people can't provide you with a SS# or a green card to show legal citizenship then you will be renting to an illegal person and you will be helping them and hurting the American people that work hard and are barely making it due to the rising health costs, paying taxes, insurance etc,,, There are millions of Americans that don't have health care and you don't see the government given them free health care like illegals. You see the government isn't trying to stop immigration so its up to the American people to stand up and not take it anymore.

[TLS]

I have heard your opinion.

This isn't about healthcare.

[GreenN'Clean]

Fact is don't rent to illegals and don't hire them. I just spoke with a man this morning at breakfast and hes an official for a township near were i live and he said hes been speaking with other officials and there passing there own laws and putting them into effect to weed out the illegals. There going after Business owners and landlords and anyone else who breaks the law by harboring an illegal thats not a citizen of the United States. I asked him where do i sign up to help and were do i make a very nice donation to help things get started......

[GreenN'Clean]

TLS you aren't getting the point. I'm bringing up health care because do you think those illegals your thinking of renting to have Health insurance? And when they get sick they go to the hospital and guess who pays there bill? Its you me and every other legal citizen who pays taxes thats foots the bill!! If you rent to them all your doing is making it harder on the Americans who are paying taxes. To many people don't want to see the whole picture they just want to make some money off of them regardless who it effects.

[GreenN'Clean]

Hence the reason I posted here. Our industry is the #1 employer of Mexican-Americans. Figured someone would know the facts here and give me all possible scenarios.

There the #1 industry that employess illegal mexicans

[TLS]

I have heard your opinion.

This isn't about healthcare.

Please respect my post. :hammerhead:

[GreenN'Clean]

I'm only answering to your post

[MarkintheGarden]

Well you need to do some research because California spent over 100 million on illegals alone this year on health care for illegals!!!! Illegals don't want to be legal citizens here they want to come here work illegally get paid in cash and get there free health care and send all there money back home to Mexico. They will come work here for 10-15 years then go back home to Mexico were they will retire and never have to work another day in there life. And you said it, illegals are here because scums that want to make a profit turn there heads, well I'm not going to turn my head on the issue if my family and I have to abide by the laws and pay taxes and pay for OUR health care and such and be legal then I'm going to do all i can to make sure people that come here illegally will do the same or get out because I'm not going to be supporting there azzes and every American should be doing the same because for every legal thats here You American citizens are paying for them to be here and thats a FACT!!!!!!!

What free health care are you talking about?
Just about every un-insured person in the USA gets free health care when they are presented to the Emergency Room. There may also be some free clinics where they do not require insurance, but for the most part no one is going to get medical care with out insurance. Yes free emergency medical attention, but that is not the same as medical care.

Many legal immigrants from mexico buy insurance in the states and use and abuse it in mexico. You can get decent medical care cheap in Mexico and file a claim for costs of the same care here. Also they share the coverage and the US insurance company has to pay for coverage of uninsured mexicans who never came to the USA. This also adds to our cost of medical insurance, it is not a situation where just IAs are the problem, they are just a drop in the bucket compared to the uninsured ligitimate citizens.

There are many communities that are inacting laws requiring employers and landlords to verify. AS DFW pointed out there is a debate about the constitutionality of these laws. If these laws exist in your community then you must abide by them until the supreme court throws them out. It's anyones guess if this is going to happen.

CleanNGreen, I see your points, but I think you are shaking your fists at the wrong people. Since 9-11 our neighboring Nations have been punished with policy that is unfair and in violation of previous free trade agreements.

Illegal aliens are not the problem, the lack of good government and policy to process immigration, prevent illegal immigration, and at the same time provide security, is the problem. I do not know how to solve it and when you listen to the people who's job it is, you get conflicting info and opinions. This is part of my reason for not caring much about this issue.

Again, CleanNGreen how much you want to spend? Do you want to build a wall? You said you will do everything you can, no one is stopping you, why don't you spend all your spare time and profits fighting this grudge of yours.

Sincerely, let me know how that works out for you, but do not wait for me to thank you.

I think like everyone else in this country you probably have enough on your hands, to do much about immigration. It sure sounds like TLS has bigger problems. I just do not get the big deal, our nation has been populated by immigrants both legal and illegal. Isaac Asimov was an illegal alien and who knows how many other great Americans were illegal aliens. Many of our ancestors were illegal aliens, and many of the IAs in the country today would be legal, if we had not changed our policies.

I think we all agree that they should pay taxes, but so should all the other tax evaders! Lets face facts, these Illegal mexicans are making peanuts and have many dependants, how much tax money do you thing we are loosing?
Given the earned income credit deductions, the IRS is probably saving money when these people do not file for their tax refunds.

[mojob]

I'm only answering to your post
Hey Green, save your breath. I think you're beating a dead horse at this point. There's three positions on this issue. Those people that profit from IAs want us to open our borders and let anybody that's willing to work hard for them cross the border. This is driven by greed, one of the most powerful forces and will never go away. Then there are those people that have their heads buried so far down in the sand, nothing bothers them. They see illegal immigration as a "victimless crime", but then again, it's hard to see trouble on the horizon with your head below ground level. Then there's the people that see all the problems that come with letting dirt poor people invade the country. These renters probably had their baby right at the hospital and we paid for the whole thing. This is so common. Luckily there wasn't any complications, had there been, we would have had to pay for that as well. Just recently here in Denver, an IA shot and killed a Denver cop. He hauled ass back to mexico where we tracked him down. Only thing was, the mexican government doesn't believe in capital punishment and wouldn't release him to us unless we dropped the charge to second degree murder. It was going to be a slam dunk first degree murder case. Now, my tax dollar is going to put him up for the rest of his life. That's just one story, there are thousands of similar stories across the country. You're right though, these guys are going to retire before we do, but they'll be back in mexico laughing their asses off. They were payed very well (considering the exchange rate), got free health care, didn't have to worry about our rules, all while not paying a dime in taxes. Only in America!

[MarkintheGarden]

Hey Green, save your breath. I think you're beating a dead horse at this point. There's three positions on this issue. Those people that profit from IAs want us to open our borders and let anybody that's willing to work hard for them cross the border. This is driven by greed, one of the most powerful forces and will never go away. Then there are those people that have their heads buried so far down in the sand, nothing bothers them. They see illegal immigration as a "victimless crime", but then again, it's hard to see trouble on the horizon with your head below ground level. Then there's the people that see all the problems that come with letting dirt poor people invade the country. These renters probably had their baby right at the hospital and we paid for the whole thing. This is so common. Luckily there wasn't any complications, had there been, we would have had to pay for that as well. Just recently here in Denver, an IA shot and killed a Denver cop. He hauled ass back to mexico where we tracked him down. Only thing was, the mexican government doesn't believe in capital punishment and wouldn't release him to us unless we dropped the charge to second degree murder. It was going to be a slam dunk first degree murder case. Now, my tax dollar is going to put him up for the rest of his life. That's just one story, there are thousands of similar stories across the country. You're right though, these guys are going to retire before we do, but they'll be back in mexico laughing their asses off. They were payed very well (considering the exchange rate), got free health care, didn't have to worry about our rules, all while not paying a dime in taxes. Only in America!


Just cause I am not on a crusade, does not mean I have my head in the sand, I can name a dozen issues that are arguably much more important.

You are also wrong about those that profit, they do not want to open the borders, they are happy with the current status, if there was a flood, then they would no longer be the only ones with cheap labor. The ones who do want to open the borders are the free trade advocates and the liberals.

Also wanting to close the borders with you are the off shore labor profiteers, so go post to them, cause closing the borders will allow them to take our jobs to the mexicans, haitians, indians, etc. etc.

Dude, to say that there are only three points of view is just stupid, there are at least three thousand, and you do not even seem to understand the three you identified.

What you do not see is if the people we are talking about were or are legal citizens, then we still would have had to pay for their medical costs of emergency treatment (maybe childbirth) but then we would also have to provide other social services like wic benefits, welfare, social security, etc.

The exchange rate is meaningless compared to the cost of illegal border crossing. Further exchange rate reduces the cost of food and shelter, and most things that are made in mexico by mexican companies. Not much of a benefit.

The reason most immigrants want to be legal is because it is a sustainable lifestyle with gradual opportunity. The life of an IA is sad and pathetic, with little hope for future development. Your picture of them retiring early and laughing all the way to the bank, just cause they got away with a couple years empoyment with a greedy US business willing to cheat their own country to profit on Illegal labor is just not the reality.

[Maitland Man]

...and doing the right thing. If these brothers had a s.s.# to give, who's to say that their credit report wouldn't come back like crap as well!?! Are you going to find renters that are perfect within 30 days of the place being up for lease, probably not. Welcome to being a landlord! Just like finding a good employee! You don't put up your "now Hiring" sign....turn down the night owl morons over and over again and pick up an illegal in front of the quickie mart and just say oh well. Then again, maybe you would.:confused: I wouldn't...and it looks like most here wouldn't either.

Go ahead and rent to them.....that's what you want to hear, right?:clapping:

If you get in good with a few of these illegals, who knows, you may be the richest landlord around....all these illegals in your area, or even better yet, from this restaraunt, who'd know that they can get a place from you.

Now they have a job, car, and house. The AMERICAN DREAM, without the american taxes.

I WOULDN'T HIRE ILLEGALS, AND i WOULDN'T HOUSE THEM. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

:cool2:

Dennis:usflag:

[MarkintheGarden]

...and doing the right thing. If these brothers had a s.s.# to give, who's to say that their credit report wouldn't come back like crap as well!?! Are you going to find renters that are perfect within 30 days of the place being up for lease, probably not. Welcome to being a landlord! Just like finding a good employee! You don't put up your "now Hiring" sign....turn down the night owl morons over and over again and pick up an illegal in front of the quickie mart and just say oh well. Then again, maybe you would.:confused: I wouldn't...and it looks like most here wouldn't either.

Go ahead and rent to them.....that's what you want to hear, right?:clapping:

If you get in good with a few of these illegals, who knows, you may be the richest landlord around....all these illegals in your area, or even better yet, from this restaraunt, who'd know that they can get a place from you.

Now they have a job, car, and house. The AMERICAN DREAM, without the american taxes.

I WOULDN'T HIRE ILLEGALS, AND i WOULDN'T HOUSE THEM. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

:cool2:

Dennis:usflag:


What taxes? People who work in restaurants as dishwashers and cooks do not make enough to owe taxes, even single, with only one deduction a minimum wage employee will receive a refund of all federal taxes paid. Those with children will get a full refund with an earned income credit bonus.
IAs are less a tax burden than the legal unemployed and working poor. And less of a burden to the health care system.

So complain all you want but the problem is not the IAs. Blame the government policy, blame the employers, blame the liberals, but IAs are just people doing what our ancestors did the only difference is now there are laws that would have made what your ancestors did illegal.

[Maitland Man]

What taxes? People who work in restaurants as dishwashers and cooks do not make enough to owe taxes, even single, with only one deduction a minimum wage employee will receive a refund of all federal taxes paid.



...none the less the legal thing. Regardless if you are a dishwasher, you'll have a w-4 now wantcha'?:nono: Whatever....these dudes claim to make each-$800.00 a week. That my friend, is definetly in a tax bracket that would have to be shown in writing. Not just what they claim verbally.

Go ahead and support the illegals in your town...may your town go to sh!t.

Me, well, I'll sleep good at night knowing I do everything legal, and I don't support the rich getting richer off illegals. Let me have proof of you supporting illegals here in my town, I'll put in overtime just to expose you for doing so! I'd call every local and federal agency in the book!

This post could bring the best....and worst out of anyone. I hate illegals and anyone that would support them...plain and simple, it's about doning the right thing. I'm done.

Catch ya later. I'm going to enjoy a beer out back relaxing in this 73 degree weather we have out there.

*trucewhiteflag*

Dennis

[MarkintheGarden]

...none the less the legal thing. Regardless if you are a dishwasher, you'll have a w-4 now wantcha'?:nono: Whatever....these dudes claim to make each-$800.00 a week. That my friend, is definetly in a tax bracket that would have to be shown in writing. Not just what they claim verbally.

Go ahead and support the illegals in your town...may your town go to sh!t.

Me, well, I'll sleep good at night knowing I do everything legal, and I don't support the rich getting richer off illegals. Let me have proof of you supporting illegals here in my town, I'll put in overtime just to expose you for doing so! I'd call every local and federal agency in the book!

This post could bring the best....and worst out of anyone. I hate illegals and anyone that would support them...plain and simple, it's about doning the right thing. I'm done.

Catch ya later. I'm going to enjoy a beer out back relaxing in this 73 degree weather we have out there.

*trucewhiteflag*

Dennis

Dennis, you are a little confusing, are you gonna go out and put in overtime exposing IAs, or are you going to enjoy a beer out back in the 73 degree weather? In any case let me know how that works out for you. For all your anger and hatred, you are just cheap talk, enjoy your beer.

[TLS]

This is so ironic.

Here I was thinking I'd get a lot of replies by people who can show me the ropes when it came to determining if someone was an illegal. Almost every midsize Landscaping company in my area has crew cabs full of Mexicans. I guess I'd be better off asking their bosses for any suggestions.

Therefore, I'm assuming those owners are not LS members, or they don't care to share this info.

I was always taught, if you don't know something, talk to someone who does.

This is what this thread is, and I guess you could say I was hoping for more people that knew something.


Thank you very much to those that DID reply, both positive and negative, in a decent manner.

Thank you very little to those who,.....well, you know who you are.

[Maitland Man]

Dennis, you are a little confusing, are you gonna go out and put in overtime exposing IAs, or are you going to enjoy a beer out back in the 73 degree weather? In any case let me know how that works out for you. For all your anger and hatred, you are just cheap talk, enjoy your beer.

Well yea, maybe a little hatred..:laugh: Read what I wrote again....yea I HATE illegals...same catagory as rapist, murders, and kidnappers in my book. All being illegal.... Yes I'd hate the ones that'd support the same as above. Other than that, I'm a very nice, loving guy....just short of being a tree hugger.:) .....seriously. So I apologize if I came across strong.

I enjoyed my beer last night very much. Thanks for asking. And while under the beleif that none of my neighbors are illegal....and none of my competitors are using illegals. Of course, the key thing being I beleive that none are illegal......

But ya, if I thought my neighbor was illegal...or better yet had proof of the lco down the road using an illegal, dang skippy I'd stay up late to see what I could do about getting rid of them.



Back on topic...if they are illegal, and you know that they are, NO, you should not rent to them. Sorry for all those that were offended by my posts....I feel strongly on the whole immigration issue.

Dennis

[Maitland Man]

Here I was thinking I'd get a lot of replies by people who can show me the ropes when it came to determining if someone was an illegal. Almost every midsize Landscaping company in my area has crew cabs full of Mexicans. I guess I'd be better off asking their bosses for any suggestions.

Therefore, I'm assuming those owners are not LS members, or they don't care to share this info.



All the mexicans in the trucks around me are documented...h2b's citezens whatever. That why I see things like I do. ANd the ones that aren't, they won't share how they have them or even expose that they are using illegals.....my thinking anyways.

Dennis

[TurfProSTL]

Bottom line is you used SSNs to weedout all the sh!tbumbs - these guys should be subject to the same scrutiny.

THEY brought their employer into this. I'd make damn sure he was ready to vouch for them in a substantive way.....

[crawdad]

The problem is not the people who come here to work and feed their families. The problem is the people who hire them, and rent to them.
If no one helped these people BREAK THE LAW, they wouldn't come here.

[stumpslawncare]

No SS# No License, No Work, No Rent, No Legal

[TLS]

Bottom line is you used SSNs to weedout all the sh!tbumbs - these guys should be subject to the same scrutiny.


Your absolutely right, however.....the information I get from that SS# credit check is information that you must have a SS# to achieve.

They won't have filed for bankruptcy.
They won't have 5-10 credit cards 120+ days past due.
Etc...

I just had 3 pretty good prospects last night. We'll see what happens with these.

[Lawn-Scapes]

Your absolutely right, however.....the information I get from that SS# credit check is information that you must have a SS# to achieve.

They won't have filed for bankruptcy.
They won't have 5-10 credit cards 120+ days past due.
Etc...

I just had 3 pretty good prospects last night. We'll see what happens with these.

Hey Tommy!

First let me state that I am not a "Bible banger"... though I should probably pick one up a lttle more often & there's nothing wrong with being one. :)

I see this thread is a month old but found it intersting enough to read it through. Just a couple of thoughts...

Wouldn't you be discriminating all the applicants that supplied you with a SS# and rented to someone who didn't? Forget that they may be illegal... would you rent to anyone else (an obvious american) who didn't supply this info? Would their employer's word be enough for you?

It seems to me that you tried to justify renting to an illegal because "we" as an industry hire illegals. Doesn't make sense. Just because this problem is here today.. doesn't make it okay to add to it. I was always told that two wrongs don't make it right.

Anyway... what was the outcome?

Take care bud........ :D

[MarkintheGarden]

Yes, what is the latest?

It is funny how much I have been hearing about immigration reform in the news and president what's his name, in the state of the union address, he mentions how employers need a resource in order to comply.

[NewWave]

Illegal immigration will be the ruin of this country. Do you know how in unpaid medical bills much tax paying americans are stuck with on a yearly basis due to illegal immigrants? Last year alone in Houston, Tx the two county hospitals accrued over 90 million dollars worth of unpaid medical bills from illegal immigrants. If I am not mistaking that figure is for labor and delivery only. Over 70% of the children born at the two hospitals were from undocumented parents. That is ridiculous. These babies are known as anchor babies. So if that is one city how much does the entire USA pay?

They dont pay medical bills. They dont pay taxes. They are here ILLEGALLY! That should be the key word. I am all for a worker program or Mexican nationals becoming citizens the correct way. More power to them. It is a long process but it will happen. Mexico does not care. Mexico is getting rid of the poor and uneducated people of their country. Now Mexico is no longer responsible and we get to set them up with our social services.

"They are also NOT going to be using any social services. They get caught so much as a speeding ticket, they're packing they're bags back to Mexico.

Sure, they're not contributing to the government via taxes, and no they're not contributing to Social Security. But they will NOT be collecting it either."

Those comments are wrong. Many people in the states of Texas are able and do retain social services even being illegal. Go to the county hospitals. Go to the county clinics. Check Medicaid records. Plenty of illegal immigrants receiving free medical attention. A hospital is not allowed to refuse care for any reason what so ever. Lack of payment, citizenship status, or any other reason. The hospital will have to treat that person. Why do you think emergency rooms are so overwhelmed? Its because people can be seen at the ER for free and would have to pay to be seen at at normal family physician. Medicaid is now trying to make everyone prove citizenship in TX. If they get a speeding ticket they get a speeding ticket. They will not be deported unless there are major underlying criminal backgrounds. They will be sent on their way. Houston isnt even allowed to ask if the person is a legal citizen unless placed under arrest. Houston along with many other cities is known as a "Safe haven". Officers are not allowed to ask citizens regarding their citizenship.

There is a right way to do things and a wrong way. The United States is being invaded and the goverment doesnt even seem to care. :usflag:

[GreenN'Clean]

Bush isn't for helping Americans and it shows. He wants to protect the IRAQI borders at all costs when he won't protect OUR borders. And if the border patrol steps up and does there job of protecting the border then there thrown in jail. Bush is a sorry excuse for an American!!!!!!!


People need to start boycotting the Businesses that employ Illegals

[DFW Area Landscaper]

Guys, I realize a lot of people are getting free health care at our hospitals. And a lot of them immigrated here, illegally, from Mexico.

However, look at the core reason as to why these people, who are showing up in the hospital emergency rooms, are showing up without health insurance. It isn't because they immigrated here illegally. It is because they are POOR.

Fact of the matter is, someone has to work in the meat processing plants and clean the stadium after a Mavericks game and make sandwiches at Subway. These are low paying jobs and no legislation, outside of converting to socialism, is going to change a sandwich artist's job from $7/hr to $15/hr + benefits.

Somebody please explain what this country is supposed to do with a LEGAL worker making $7/hr at Subway when he or she shows up at the emergency room without health insurance?

In a capitalist society, there will ALWAYS be poor people. Building a wall won't change that.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

[topsites]

I think it really is this simple: No social = no job.

I mean, an employer can't pay that employee's social security benefits without it...
I don't think an employer can file any of that employee's tax-related paperwork, for that matter.
Besides, all the future employee has to do is run down to the social security administration office and get it, it's even painless.
So how can you hire someone if they have no social?

Now if an employer does hire someone because they don't care about their taxes anyhow, then why be concerned over this trivial aspect?
If the IRS catches that employer, he or she could be looking at prison anyhow, so what difference is one stupid ssn going to make?
Right?

[fiveoboy01]

Because when I see the train-wrecks of a life out there mooching off our system (welfare, social security, disability, section 8, food stamps, bankruptcy), and then I see a couple that for some reason, is unable to obtain citizenship, but works hard, saves money, pays his bills, and is generally a decent polite person....

Catch my drift?

Which would you choose?

Oh, non smoking and no pets as well. :dancing:


I read this far, then stopped.

It's obvious you're looking for an EXCUSE to rent to them, and could care less whether or not they're legal citizens.

Why you're here asking for advice is beyond me.

[lifetree]

Some cities are starting to pass ordinances which levy a fine on the landlord who rents to illegal aliens ... you should probably check this out in your area.

[awillardandrews]

Rent it to them. Why do care if they have SS#'s anyway? These Mexicans are usually the hardest working people you'll ever meet. If your so paranoid, you need an attorney, not legal advise from landscapers.

[motoguy]

I view it more as simply a business risk. No SSN = you can't perform the same sort of background check as you can on people with SSN. If a good word from a boss and some nice manners are all you require for your tenants...then why not save some $, and stop doing background checks on -all- your tenants? Either the background / credit check is a worthy endeavor to save you some headache, or it isn't. I don't see why you should be selective about it.

You want to rent to them, but don't know enough to be able to trust them. The business owner trusts them (or states he does), but doesn't have a way to house them. You seem to imply that you trust the business owner. Simple solution, then. You should rent the unit to the business owner. Your lease with him can allow him to sublease the unit. This allows you to rent the unit with legal recourse, and allows him to get housing for his workers.

If it all goes the way the tenants / business owner seem to expect...everybody is happy. If, by some chance, it -doesn't- go as expected...you still have an avenue to pursue claims or damages.

If he really feels this strongly about these people, this should be a great solution for everyone. This is where his true level of trust will come to light. If -he's- not willing to risk his name / credit with them...why should you be expected to do so?

Ultimately, it's your property that you need to protect. Renting to a couple with an unknown background, new baby, and no legal way to get recourse for damages...just doesn't seem like a good business move to me.

Would you let an unknown friend-of-an-acquaintance borrow your truck, trailer, and all the equipment from your business? If you didn't know their background, didn't know where they came from, have no way to track them, and have no way to get compensation, should they damage your property? Even if the acquaintance is a local businessman, and the friends in question are "really nice"?

Just my opinion, of course. Personally, I feel it would probably all work out ok...-but-, how are you protecting yourself in case it -doesn't- go well? Do you perform work without a contract, with only a promise of payment, because they're "nice people"?

[cantoo]

Can these people get fire insurance for your house? What about renting to someone who was aquitted of rape charges or child molestation? They weren't proven quilty so give them a chance?

[motoguy]

Can these people get fire insurance for your house?
Generally, structure insurance is the responsibility of the homeowner. The tenants are responsible for insurance to cover their personal propery.

What about renting to someone who was aquitted of rape charges or child molestation? They weren't proven quilty so give them a chance?
Isn't that the whole point of the legal system? Or do you prefer the Salem Witch Trials "he said-she said" version?

I've got brother in law who's in jail right now. He finally bucked up, and left his abusive, drug-addicted, bipolar (diagnosed) girlfriend. She got pizzed that he left, so she filed rape charges against him. Her word alone, no supporting evidence. Just a get-even thing, because men are "unofficially automatically guilty when accused by a woman". I had no idea how common this was, until speaking with his attorney.