Help What To Buy????

[MNBOB]

I just happened to come across this forum looking for info on tracked loaders. Anyway the big question is which one is the best machine it its class. I have been looking at a price range around 40,000 to 45,000.
I have been looking at the asv sr-70, 257 cat, 322 Deere. The problem I live in northern Mn and now the ground is frozen and I can't really try them out properly.

I guess I am open to all machine brands. I mainly use them for dirt work, moving and grading. Clearing land, loading and unloading trucks with forks and plowing snow which some people told me a tracks are no good in the snow. I would think that the tracks would be better than tires.

I drove the cat, deere and asv but the asv only made it about 10 feet and the machine shut down some electrical problem I guess. Sp I am not to sure about the asv.

I really like pilot controls, I would hate to go back to the old controls. I must have a heated cab and ride would be a big plus. I have had back surgery so I would like to have a good riding machine.
I have a s185 gold package with every possible option right now that I bought in the spring with about 85 hr on it. It has the grouser tracks over the tires. Its a nice machine the only thing I don't like about it is that its very light on the cutting edge. It is hard to cut down hard ground with out having some weight in the bucket and back dragging can be hard to. It is ruff riding for me to. You can even pop a wheelie going from reverse to forward with the tracks on and you cannot load on a trailer forward. But it does have a very nice cab.

Any info would be great. I have to buy before the end of the year and have no really good idea which one. So far I like the cat 257 but I keep hearing bad things about there tracks and they are the most expensive. The asv I really didn't get to try but the cab seem kind of tight,the door was hard to open and, the gauges were kind of in a funny place on the arm rest. But according to the specs they are way ahead of the others for the money.

I would like the best machine for the money and the least amount of maintance just like every one else.

[Scag48]

Look at Case, they have some of the best CTL's on the market. While I like Cat and I think the undercarriage costs are worth it given you're using the machine in the right operation, there are cheaper machines to buy and maintain. However, the 277B we had was a hoss. I'd stay away from the 257B, too many people I've talked to feel it's underpowered and I can tell you first hand that having vertical lift is terrible for visibility, especially in the Cat lineup, absolutely terrible visibility. The grading performance on any vertical lift machine isn't great either, but you mentioned you'll be loading trucks, you'll just have to decide if having vertical lift vs. radial lift is really worth it to you. Like I said, look into Case. Their pilot system has been released as far as I know, KSSS will correct me if I am wrong. They don't have the most high tech cabs out there, but that doesn't pay the bills anyhow. Hope this helped a little.

[MNBOB]

I did look at one case. It was a nice machine but it had no heat and standard controlls so I didn't spend much time looking at it. That was the only case they had on the lot. I will check to see if they will be getting any more but I thought the sales man told me they did not make pilot controls yet. The problem is I only have a couple of weeks to wait.

[patpls]

Hi MNBOB, I'm actually loking at a s185 or s205, for next year. How do you rate the actual lift capability of your 185? I'll be loading and moving pallets of pavers and block around , the Bobcat rep says a 205 with weights could do it but how well does your Bob. do with pallets?? Thanks and where the heck is that snow!!!

[MNBOB]

The lifting capability are good for this machine. with the tracks on the machine I can pick up 2800lbs to the top of the boom. You have to be really carefull and I wouln't recomend it. It handles 2000lbs good. I can pick up 4000lbs to about 5 feet before it starts to tip. Its only rated for 1850lbs but like I said I unloaded lots of pipe trucks with 20ft lengths of pipe bundled at 2000lbs.
I going to be selling this one or trading it in. If intrested let me know. Its is less than a year old . It only has 85 hours,gold package,with air,and the new keyless start. also the grouser tracks. all make someone a good deal. If you need more info email me at Bkenrt@aol.com

[Scag48]

I understand your concern about buying before the end of the year, but the Case really is the best machine on the market. I'd say Deere is your best bet for lift capacity and pushing power, but I have some dislikes with Deere that I'll get into later.

[ksss]

The CASE pilot controls are available for order. It may take alittle while to get them into dealer inventory. I do have suggestion since you live in Mn. Find a CASE dealer that you like and tell him you want to go to Tomahawk, Wi (home of the CASE customer demo site and northern proving grounds.). They have the CASE pilots on their demo skid steers there. The 440CT would fit well in the size of machines you have been demoing. The 445CT would give you a little more lifting capacity, but for sheer power the 440 and 450CT have it in bulk.

[MNBOB]

Do the case have any suspension in the tracks. How do they ride, Has anyone tried the harder rubber tracks in the snow. Would it push a plow. I have heard from the asv dealer that the hard rubber tracked machine like the case, bobcat, and deere are really bad when it comes to snow and Ice.
Has anyone ran a takeuchi how are they we just had a dealer start up near me selling these machine. But I have never heard of them. Also how about the new holland or the bigger bobcat like the t 250. I would like a machine that is ballance close to 50/50 I'm not sure if they make them or not. I know that the asv is close to that but has anyone had any expirence with the asv sr-70 or sr -80. They are made about 70 miles away. I have been inside the factory a couple of years ago. They seem to me that they would be a nice machine according to the specs but they look to be made kind of lite and or a little cheap compared to the cat I looked at and the cab set up isn't the best. Not to mention that when I went to try the machine out it only ran about 60sec and the hyd shut down. But like I said according to the specs they seem to be the best machine for the money if they would hold up.

[Scag48]

You don't want a machine that has a 50/50 weight distribution. First of all, they don't exist, and second of all, if they did, you wouldn't be able to lift anything.

Takeuchi is worth looking at, they have pilot controls and they are a great machine I'm told. Takeuchi has been building mini excavators since the 70's, they're a reputable company. I don't have any first hand experience with their CTL's, but I hear they push like none other.

Case is really the best machine out there. No suspension so it's easy to maintain, but I have to stress that suspended undercarriages can make up their cost difference. The Cat's are solid machines if you like the suspended undercarriages, there's no denying that.

[ksss]

The CAT tread design may be better for snow. The smaller cuts it seems would bit in the snow and ice better than the larger block style tread pattern. There was a company near Boise that put the CAT style tracks on a CASE 450CT. They didn't last very long on the CASE but if you used them just for snow it maybe an option. There are alot of different companies making rubber tracks, sure you would think someone would make a tread design that would work in snow and ice.

[Scag48]

Does anybody remember when the first Bobcat CTL's came out? They had bar type tracks like Cat's tracked machines. Sorry, just had to throw that out there.

[bobcatboy]

I think when it comes down to raw power the gehl skid steers has everybody beat. Thought I would mention that

[bobcatboy]

the gehl 7810 model I meant to say. 100 hp a 144 inches of lift, 10k that is a hell of a machine

[Scag48]

Yeah, 100 horses, probably burns 2-3 gallons per hour. I'll pass.

[bobcatboy]

there not really that hard on fuel. I had one on demo for a day heavy digging and it used an eighth of a tank more than our 246. And the power of that machine is incredible. I dont know if you saw the leogering vts video with that machine or not but if you have not check it out.

[dozerman21]

MNBOB- Of the three machines you first listed, I would go with the Deere hands down. I prefer the rigid system over the suspended tracks. I have a CT332 that I've been very happy with, and I work with one guy and know several more who own CT322's that have the same opinion. I am a Case guy, but the Deere CTL's impressed me more. Case would be my second choice, although my local dealer strongly pushes the Takeuchi more, and says it's a better machine and that they've had good luck with them. I would give the Deere, Case, and Takeuchi all a good look. Every machine has it's stronger points, you need to demo them (I know the ground's frozen), if for no other reason to see how the controls feel. I don't like the complex suspended undercarriages, but they do ride better than the rigid, and they will do better pushing snow. I had a T-300 (rigid) and it was horrible trying to push snow! I'm sure my Deere or any other rigid undercarriage will be the same. It does O.K. it the snow is fresh and hasn't been driven on, but if you have to plow on icy or packed down snow (which is usually the case), it sucked. The Cat/Asv track units will do better, but not as good as your wheeled skid does. Wheeled skids have a much higher psi compared to a CTL, that will enable you to get better traction.

[start2finish]

we own a TL150 from takeuchi, this machine is just above your price range you stated, butthe TL 140 is a good machine as well. We traded a S250 Gold in on the machine and gave up all the fancy lights and bells, but there seems to be a relief in the simplicity of the takeuchi. We love the machine it is a radius lift machine, but the reach and loading height rival that of a vertical lift machine. scag is right this machine will push for days. We have been nothing but pleased.

it has pilot controls as well, there is an option to have pilot controls with the CASE pattern but we ran our bobcat ISO so was no reason to change it

[it excavate]

Takeuchi is worth looking at, I really like mine (TL130). It doesn't have all the bells and whistles like some of the others but the controls are so easy to use you can run the thing for hours and not be wore out. It does have some nice features like keeping the bucket level when you lift, which helps keep from getting a lap full when loading a truck. It also has boom float which is nice. The aux hyd controls are nice also with either direction buttons on one control or foot controls and has a detent switch so one direction you can start and stop by pressing the button. I'm a big guy (6'2") and it has the most comfortable cab of any I tried. The CAT cab was nice also. JCB and John Deere were the most cramped and didn't even demo them after sitting in them. It's just a comfortable machine that does what I need easily and you don't pay for the bells and whistles that some of the other machines have. It is cheaper. Good luck!

[ksss]

Takeuchi is very simplistic in its approach to building equipment. No frills, rugged construction, and machines that typically spec. above the competition. It think they could improve their cabs some however. I am not talking about lights and buzzers, but sound deadening material and a little more convenience. The CTL's that I have been in that had some time on them tend to rattle and shake. I notice it in my excavator. Overall though TK does a great job in building quality equipment. A little more American intervention in the comfort area and it would be a home run in my opinion. I think the domestic OEM's have looked to TK's CTLs when producing their own. They seem to have done very well. Especially considering they are a small company compared to others in the market. Some guys have never even heard of Takeuchi. Others refuse to buy them because of the name. Ignorance is Bliss isn't it.

[MNBOB]

I had a local dealer give me a price on a Takeuchi today. I didn't look at a machine yet but he come out to look at taking my bobcat on trade. But as for price I thought he was very high he wanted 45,000 for a 140. I can buy the asv sr-70 for 42000, case 47,000,deere 322 for 39000 and cat 357b for 40,000 and most dealer are giving me about 22,000 for mine. I have drove all but the takeuchi. I like the deere a lot. Its a hell of a machine for it size but I really like pilot controlls and the cab seemed a little tight. So far I like the cat the best, I think it has the most comfortable cab and ride. Not to sure about the track system and the durability. But our local cat dealer is great to work with. But if I could get pilots on the deere that would be my first choice so far. The case I did look at I didn't really spend much time looking at it just because they were a lot higher and it didn't have a cab/heater or pilots. So far what I have heard about them I might have to give them a second look. The takeuchi sound like a great but around here they seem to be really high and this is the first time I have herd of them, I believe they just started selling here for a couple months. The other bad thing is they sell them close to me but they only service them about 120 miles away. As far as the asv I was kind of disipointed in the quality of workmanship. Also I drove it about 25 feet and it broke down. something electrical, so I tried out another and the pilot controlls got stuck and I almost ran into a dozer blade, Luckly I shut it off in time. So then they let me drive a sr80 and that drove very nice. But not sure how they would hold up. So I am still up in the air on this but leaning toward the cat just because of the price and the comfort and the dealership is good to work with and get parts. But I am going to look at the tk and case again. I am susposed to be getting a price on a new holland also.
I really appreciate all the info It has helped me a lot. But I think Its going to be a hard decision.

[dozerman21]

Nice job testing all the machines and trying to find what's best for you. I haven't heard of any pilot controls in the works for Deere. I've got the recently released hand controls on mine. They are low effort and a natural feel to me. Takeuchis are good machines. I personally don't like the cab, it feels too big, but that 120 mile run to get it serviced would be a deal killer. I've never ran a New Holland CTL. I'd like to know how you liked it if you end up running one. I considered one before I bought my Deere.

[ksss]

You'll want to make sure your comparing like machine to like machine. I don't know what CASE machine you priced but you'll want to be sure you have not priced a 450 CTL against a JD 322. If you really do want a CAT I would first go to Iron Planet and you'll save yourself 25K. Every two weeks there is a fire sale on CAT tracked machines. The hours on the machines vary but most are low houred. They offer a fairly complete inspection I think. You may also want to take note of the price you were quoted for a new one and what a machine that is a year or two old with less than 1000 hours brings. That my friend will be your depreciation. CAT's way of saying thanks.:dizzy:

[MNBOB]

I will go to Iron planet and check out the machines on there like you said. Do they all depreciate that fast. Do some hold there values longer. I am waiting for takeuchi dealer to bring up a couple of machines and i am going to look at the case again. The takeuchi dealer is also the newholland dealer so He has a new cl170 that he may bring up.

[ksss]

I think the the depreciation of the CAT machines is the product of several things. One is the under carriage is not very forgiving to abuse or some may say just use. They are expensive to maintain and thus reduces resale value. The other issue is CAT has stake in Iron Planet and so a lot of CATs rental machines get auctioned off on the web site, The result of this I believe is a flooding of the market with CAT machines. You would have to want a new machine very bad to not buy your next CAT tracked or wheeled machine off the Internet with low hours. The deals are that good. It is killing the resale value of those machines though. These are my opinions.

[smalley360]

you probably already seen this but here it is anyway.

http://www.mbtractor.com/asvcompared.php

[MNBOB]

I really like th specs on the asv. But I'm not sure if they will hold up, But the asv has lots of standard features that you have to add on the other machines. Do any of you Run and asv personally or have expirence with one. If I knew they would hold up I would really consider one. I have been looking at the rc-80 instead of the 70. They said the 80 was a better machine the 70 is new and been having lots of little problems.