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tralfaz
06-26-2001, 12:36 AM
Has anyone with a Turf Tiger ever had any problems with your hydro pumps? I have had a Turf Tiger for a little over two years and have had problems with the pumps 4 seperate times. Luckily, the first 3 were under warranty. Alas, the last time was not, which not only cost me several bucks to replace but also the inconvienance of not having it for 3 days.

Richard Martin
06-26-2001, 06:30 AM
I have not (don't own a Scag) but this is starting to be a common problem. There was a thread recently about Scag hydro problems. Use the search button at the top of the page and you'll find it.

Eric ELM
06-26-2001, 07:45 AM
Here is a link to the Scag posts, over 100 threads on them.
http://www.lawnsite.com/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=8708&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

JLC
06-26-2001, 10:37 AM
Mine is a 1999 Turf Tiger. I had to replace the right side pump, wheel motor, and hub with around 250 hours on the machine. After I got this done I could tell that the left side wasn't to par with the right that had just been replaced. Left side will need replacement, but I'm trying to milk it out as long as I can. Last night was bad, it jerked all over the place. Makes it hard to keep the stripes totally straight. What year is yours? Sounds like it is probably the same year as mine. I've heard that they have changed the pump design, but I still don't know if I'd want to buy another one.

tralfaz
06-26-2001, 08:21 PM
JLC,
Yes, mine is a 1999 Turf Tiger. Other than the hydro problems, I've been pretty satisfied with it. I am about to reach 1,000 hours on it. I have an old Scag walkbehind (probably a '91) and have never had any trouble out of it. I know that they don't get quite the workout that the Turf Tiger does though.

David Gretzmier
06-26-2001, 11:35 PM
the new bigger sabre toothe has a bigger hydro setup, and the skag rep told me the ner igers all have improved hydro systems. there had to have been a problem or they wouldn't have fixed it. Dave g

Mowingman
06-27-2001, 10:51 PM
A friend of mine bought a new Turf Tiger last month. Last week a hydro pump went bad on it. I think he only has about 75hr on it. Dealer took 3 days to get pump and put it on. My friend was not too happy. I looked at it when it came back and I dont see any system for cooling the hydro oil or pumps. Am I missing something or could this be why Scag pumps are failing?

JLC
06-27-2001, 11:11 PM
Mowingman,

Was this a 2001 model. If so that is outragous. I can't believe Scag hasn't fixed this problem in 3 years. You're correct as far as I know, Scag has no cooling system for the hydro's. If I had a brand new cutter with 75 hours on it and it chucks a wheel motor I'd be cutting my losses and buying something different. I wish I would have when my first one failed. Sounds like this problem will just keep reoccuring.

Last Cut
06-27-2001, 11:20 PM
Hi Got my tiger last month the right side pump went bad in the first 8 hrs

Mowingman
06-27-2001, 11:26 PM
JLC,
Yes, it is a 2001 model.

JLC
06-27-2001, 11:31 PM
This is incredible. I don't ever hear the Exmark or DC guys complain about pump failure. Why can't Scag get it right. Maybe I'm just fired up because mine wouldn't discharge clippings for crap tonight (standard deck).

Last Cut
06-28-2001, 09:56 PM
Yes this is 2001 model so the dealer said but it does not have the dual oil coolers on it like the one I looked at The Dealer is going to put them on this coming monday you might want to put them on yours

CSRA Landscaping
06-30-2001, 12:12 PM
I asked Scag about this and this is the reply that I got:

Jeff,
Thanks for the e-mail. I will check out the link that you sent me when I get some time. But to answer your question as far as what's up with the hydro's on turf tigers. We use the same pump as other manufacturers in the industry. There are only minor changes to the one that we use compared to the others. In the next year we will be using a different pump from Hydro Gear on the Turf Tiger. This pump is the same c.c. as the current 10L pump but there are some changes to it. In the past year or so, Hydro Gear has made some changes to the 10L that is used on the Turf Tiger. They have increased the thickness of the paper gasket and also changed the way the input bearing is held into the case. These minor changes have helped resolve some of the issues we were seeing on the pumps. If you would like to contact Hydro Gear for any additional information regarding problems you are seeing, you are more than welcome to. Here is a number to reach them at. 217-728-2582 and ask for someone in the service department. Thanks Jeff. If you have further questions, please let me know.

Thanks
Patrick Rohloff
Technical Service Manager
Scag Power Equipment

Seems pretty nice to me. Also, a very prompt reply. I got this back the day after I sent the e-mail!

Richard Martin
06-30-2001, 01:31 PM
Scag wrote:

........................
But to answer your question as far as what's up with the hydro's on turf tigers. We use the same pump as other manufacturers in the industry.
........................

Just as soon as the pump says Sundstrand or Eaton on the side of it I'll believe this. The Scag pumps only cross reference to Landscaper Supply (Black Rock) mowers.

gsokol
06-30-2001, 06:04 PM
I have been watching the comments on the Turf Tigers hydro pumps with interest. We are currently looking at a 48" Tiger Cub and are concerned that the same pump is used in this as well.
Can anyone tell me if this is the case and if there are any other potential faults with this model.
The other alternative we would look at is a comparable Walker. However, the land that we have to cut is rough by American standards and I am not sure that the Walker would be the best choice. The Advantage deck also sounds good.
Any comments on this would be appreciated.

gsokol
Melbourne Australia

JLC
06-30-2001, 06:20 PM
If I understand this right they may be using the same brand pump, but not necessarily the same model as their competion. If what he said was the case, I would assume that the other brands of commercial mowers would be having trouble. Are they?

kroll
06-30-2001, 10:32 PM
gsokol:
I have a 48" tiger cub that I bought in 99 for the purpose of cutting
the cemetary's That we do they are rough and demand alot of manuvering
and turning puts alot of work on the pumps It has done fine @250hrs.
The things I have noticed are I hit a large mole hill one time and thought I
killed the clutch it made abnoral noise's and was slow to engauge.
the dealer I bought from was WORTHLESS so I found another and he told me how to adjust the clutch .004 Fixed this has been 75hrs. ago.
The advantage deck is not great in wet grass it clogs and looses the vacume
works better with high lifts "acceptable" Dry grass is perfect but they all are
the 48" won't hold a hill side as well as my 60's DC's but I prefer the handling
on flat ground because of dampened steering , the 19hp Kaw. is somtimes a little underpowered in tall wet grass with high lifts so I put the stock blades on
had some trouble finding 16.5 in high lifts they would be16.25 and leave a strip
poor craftsman ship in aftermaket blades found some from NAPA that work great and cost less p/n 704794 . had to lower tire pressure to smooth the ride but I do that to everthing bad back ya know.
hope this helps good luck

Ken

HOMER
06-30-2001, 10:34 PM
I have an older Scag Super Z with over 1100 hrs and have never had any problems with the pumps. Tomorrows a different day though.

mklawnman
07-01-2001, 01:59 PM
I have a 2001 Scag Turf Tiger, with 104hrs on it, so far no problems with the pump motors, when we bought the scag the dealer said that this year the scags pump motors were built different than the past models, dont know if thats all true, we just keep the wheel motors clean as possible and hope for the best. Striping problem that i had on my 52 Advantage deck is fixed, its a productive King for my business, along with the 23Kaw Liquid cooled. Love it
HOpe for the best for all other scag Turf tiger owners
Lawnman

Duncan IN
08-08-2001, 09:34 PM
I have had two scags, 1 2000 turf tiger and this year I have the 2001. I have had problems with both of them, first my 2000 scag had a weak hydro on the right side backing up. Lived with that for 500 hours, I had a scag rep look at it and the dealer, they said nothing was wrong with it. Ya right, 1/3 of the way through the season this year the left hydro pump blew a seal, I was ticked so I went to another dealer that day and traded for a 2001 with the 27 kaw. Loved it for the first 30 hours and then the exact same thing happened with the right hydro as my last one, backing up just to weak. So I am still putting up with it. I need to take it in to the new dealer. Also having trouble keeping a good clean cut. Scag Get It Right!!!!!!!! :mad:

Randy Scott
08-09-2001, 12:15 AM
Probably time to try a different brand!I was just at my dealer today, not a Scag dealer, but he had one in there for repairs, both hydros and wheel motors on a Scag. About three grand, outta warranty.Yeeeeeeeeeha!

awm
08-10-2001, 02:53 PM
whats weird to me is that a company like scag and kohler(25hp)
and others will put out a flawed machine and let the public
loose faith in them. surely they put these thing thru exstensive test, before marketing it.

Randy Scott
08-11-2001, 10:49 AM
Unfortunately they probably don't put them through as much testing as they should, or would probably like to. Everything can have major flaws down the road that nobody could have anticipated. Many times when parts are "farmed" out for others to build, they don't always get what their promised. Nevertheless, if that happens, regardless of who's at fault, the manufacturer has to stand behind their product and not pass the blame. I contemplated between a eXmark and Scag this year. I bought the eXmark. Thank god the dealer was a jacka$$ and that's why I went with the eXmark instead of the Scag. It just doesn't sound like they have a great product. I know some love theirs but there is alot of bad feedback about Scags versus eXmarks.

jpzink
08-11-2001, 11:57 AM
The complaint should not be there if you use synthetic oil instead of standard motor oil. If there is over heating the standard oil will break down and can not do it's job. Try Mobil One like they do in the Exmark.

JLC
08-11-2001, 11:34 PM
Maybe this is the difference. Scag is owned by Metalcraft of Mayville. This is a company that has nothing to do with mowers except owning Scag. They acquired Scag I think when Dane Scag went out of business with the company. Other popular manufacturers, Exark, Toro, Walker, Dixie, etc. make mowers period. Everything rides on how they perform. If they get a bad name people wont buy them and they will be out of business. With Scag, they could go out of business, but the parent company will still go on. Probably not as much at stake and this may have something to do with the quality coming out the door.

SLS
08-12-2001, 04:13 AM
I just visited the Scag website and the ZTR page says that the Tiger and Sabertooth are equiped with ROSS hydro wheel motors.

The owners manual that I received with my 2001 Lazer Z says that it is equiped with ROSS-WHITE hydro wheel motors.

Are these the same manufacturer...and possibly different models?

The Exmarks seem to RARELY have hydro motor problems.

Could this be the Mobil 1 SYNTHETIC making the difference? I was told by a dealer that it kept the hydro system operating at a cooler temperature than conventional hydro oil.

My Lazer is a 'no frills' 60'' w/ a 23 hp Kawasaki...no fancy coolers or elaborate filtering...250 hrs (not ruff-ridden)....so far not a hint of hydro problems...smooth, tight, and even ***knocking on wood...***. :)

Eric ELM
08-12-2001, 11:08 AM
White makes wheel motors for a lot of ZTR's, but there has to be several different motors. Dixie Chopper uses Hydrogear 21 Series hydraulic pumps and White HB Series hydraulic wheel motors. These motors are the Quad Loop System and Dixie Chopper is the only ones that I know of to use the Quad Loop System. Does anyone else know of another ZTR using this?

All I know is that I have not had any hydro problems in over 9,000 total hours of using this system. :)

Richard Martin
08-12-2001, 12:13 PM
Eric ELM wrote:
..............................
Dixie Chopper uses Hydrogear 21 Series hydraulic pumps
..............................

Mine has Sundstrand pumps.

Eric ELM
08-12-2001, 12:17 PM
Richard, I was referring to the diesel pumps since this is the latest information I have, sorry.

The point I was getting at was the wheel motors in general. ;)